BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: GraceKellysmom on November 09, 2004, 05:07:43 am
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* Please take a look at this thread first. It has tons of information that you will need for MSPI. A new thread has been started open to any post, questions, and help you may need.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=119689.0
Thanks, Wendy
Milk and/or soy protein intolerance (MSPI) describes a reaction to the PROTEINS (not lactose sugar) in milk and soy which damage the inside lining of the intestinal tract. The cause of this problem is not fully understood. Your child may be born with this intolerance or may aquire it later. It is also not the same thing as lactose intolerance in adults which is simply the inability to digest milk sugar (lactose) due to an enzyme deficiency. Babies with MSPI may also have a secondary intolerance to milk sugar as a result of intestinal damage already present. This intolerance to milk and soy PROTEIN is inhibited by a change in the cells or the gastrointestinal tract. Your child will probably outgrow this problem by late infancy or during the second year of life.
MSPI is diagnosed by a detailed history. Your child will be exhibiting one or more of the following symptoms: bloody stools, diarrhea with water loss, constipation, irritability (putting it mildly), weight loss or failure to gain, vomiting, appearing to be hungry all the time or refusal to eat at all. Eczema may also be the only symptom that a lot of kids with MSPI have. The doctor will question you as to the types of formula, if any, your infant has been on and how they reacted to each one. A description of the child's bowel movements is necessary. The doctor may elect to do an endoscopic examination. During this procedure, the doctor uses a lighted instrument to look into the small bowel and/or rectum. Damage (called colitis) is present if the lining is red, inflamed, or bleeding. Inflammatory changes may be noted on tissue samples obtained during this test. Less invasive testing can be done by obtaining a stool sample card to check for blood. It is the combination of the colitis with some of the symptoms listed previously which confirm the diagnosis of MSPI.
The treatment for MSPI is the removal of the offending milk and soy proteins when diagnosed. When diagnosed, most infants need to be on a strict milk and soy free diet until they are 9 to 24 months old. The best treatment is for mother to breastfeed and eliminate the proteins from her diet. Formulas which contain predigested proteins, such as Nutramigen, Alimentum, Pregestimil, Neocate, Tolerex, Vivonex Pediatric, or 3232A are utilized. (Approx 50% of these infants can tolerate one of these formulas. http://www.nutramed.com/digestion/ )
It is recommended that solid foods be delayed until the infant is 6 months old.
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MILK FREE DIET
Avoid foods that contain any of the following ingredients:
*artificial butter flavor
*butter, butter fat, buttermilk
*casein
*caseinates (ammonia caseinate, calcium caseinate, magnesium caseinate, potassium caseinate, sodium caseinate)
*cheese
*cottage cheese
*curds
*custard
*half and half
*hydrolysates (casein, milk protein, protein, whey, whey protein)
*lactalbumin, lactalbumin phosphate
*lactoglobulin
*lactose
*milk (derivative, protein, solids, malted, condensed, evaporated, dry, whole, low fat, non fat, skim)
*nougat
*pudding
*rennet casein
*sour cream, sour cream solids
*sour milk solids
*whey (delactosed, demineralized, protein concentrate)
*yogurt
*brown sugar flavoring
*caramel flavoring
*chocolate, milk chocolate (cocoa butter is ok)
*high protein flour
*margarine
*natural flavoring
*Simplesse A "D" on a product label next to a "K" or circled "U" may indicate the presence of milk protein
SOY FREE DIET
Avoid foods that contain any of the following ingredients:
*miso
*shoyu sauce
*soy (flour, grits, nuts, milk, sprouts)
*soybean (granules, curd)
*y protein (concentrate, isolate)
*y sauce
*textured vegetable protein (TVP)
*tofu ingredients
*flavorings
*hydrolyzed plant protein
*hydrolyzed soy protein
*hydrolyzed vegetable protein
*natural flavoring
*vegetable broth
*vegetable gum
*vegetable starch
**Studies show that most soy allergic individuals may safely eat products containing soy lecithin and soybean oil
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thanks Stacy....
my milk supply is quickly decreasing, if im thinking of doing this..i need to know...
what can I eat?
can you give me some foods you eat regularly? i'm not good at this kind of stuff.
thanks
Nicole
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Yes, I'm going to post what you CAN eat! (Please PM me if you notice something is not correct on this list or if ingredients have changed.)
Milk - rice milk, almond milk, oat milk (not goat's milk, the protein is similar to cows) Try to get enriched rice milk, it has the calcium you need. Rice Dream brand is good.
Butter - of course dairy butter and most margarines are out. But Fleishmans LIGHT margarine in the tub (blue lid) and Fleishmans UNSALTED margarine sticks (for baking) are both dairy/milk free. Mazola's unsalted sticks are MSP-free too. Blue Bonnet makes one variety that is ok.
Crisco - regular or butter flavor is ok
Cheese - no substitute. Every rice "cheese" I've found has milk casein in it.
Sour cream - same answer as cheese
Eggs - are fine. They are often labeled as "dairy" but should be tolerated.
Oils - nearly all oils are fine. Read labels and don't buy ones that say buttery taste.
Peanut Butter - many national brands contain soy protein. Albertson's brand was ok last time I checked. I use Skippy creamy and he tolerates it ok.
Mayonnaise/Miracle Whip - Should be fine.
Mustard - most varieties are fine
Brown sauces - most contain soy, so read labels carefully
Ketchup - most varieties are fine
Barbeque sauce - read labels carefully
Salad Dressings - look for non-creamy varieties. Kraft's Good Seasons Italian, Zesty Italian, and Herb Garlic powedered dressing mixes (mix with oil and water) are MSP-free
Hummus - great on breads, for sandwiches, or as a dip for chips/veggies. Be careful not to get a flavor with cheese in it.
Dips - most commercially packaged dips contain milk products. Hummus, bean and guacamole dips are good substitutes.
Crackers - Safe ones are Nabiscos Triscuits, Wheat Thins, Carrs crackers. Most pretzels, plain popcorn, saltines, plain tortilla chips are ok. Just read labels and stay away from flavored varieties.
Chocolate - unsweetened cocoa is safe for baking. Ghiradelli, Guittard, and Cloud Nine make safe semi-sweet chocolate chips, and Newman's Own has three flavors of semi-sweet chocolate bars: regular/dark, expresso, and sweet orange. Trader Joe's brand semi-sweet chips are ok too.
Candy - most gummy, chewy fruit candies are ok. No chocolate candy is soy free, however Junior Mints are milk-free. Watch out for caramel flavoring, it contains milk.
Cakes - make your own. DUNCAN HINES are no longer dairy-free, not a stinkin' one of them!
Icecream - Rice Dream has a great line of MSP-free frozen deserts. The vanilla ice cream bar dipped in dairy-free chocolate is my favorite!
Cereals - many are ok. Cheerios, Rice Chex, and Kix are all safe, keep reading labels.
Breakfast Bars - many flavors of Kelloggs Pop Tarts are ok, especially fruit flavored ones. Most other brands contain milk. Watch out for these - 400+calories a pack
Pancakes/Waffles - make your own. Bisquick is safe
Bagels - Brueggers makes several MSP-free bagels
Muffins, doughnuts - all contain milk products. Rhodes bread dough, sweet dough, cinnamon and orange rolls are all safe, but the frosting that comes in the frozen packs is not.
Pasta - most dried pasta is ok. Pasta Anytime in marinara is safe
Rice - dried rice is ok, as long as it is cooked in water. Most boxed mixes contain soy (like Rice'r'Roni) so read labels
Breads - most brands contain dried milk. A local bakery or making your own may be a better option. Rotella's brand makes many varieties without milk/soy. French or Italian breads may be safe, read labels. Two store-bought kinds that are MSP free are Iron Kids Bread and Earth Grains Extra Fiber 100% Whole Grain bread. Lots of breads at Whole Foods and Trader Joes are dairy/soy free.
***watch out for breadings, like chicken nuggets, breaded fish, etc. These almost always have milk.
Soups - most brands contain soy protein. Campbells Tomato soup is safe. Swansons Natural Goodness Low Sodium chicken and beef broths are safe, just add your own veggies and meat. Earth's Best makes a soy-free chicken noodle soup, it's only .38 at Walmart.
Fruits/Vegetables - fresh is always safe. Read labels on frozen to make sure it is just the vegetable, no sauce.
Meats/Fish - most fresh is ok. Some babies react to beef like they do milk protein, so watch for this. Some chicken is injected with "flavoring" or "broth" which contains soy protein. Smart Chicken brand is safe. Some processed beef, like premade hamburger patties, is injected with soy protein too. All meat substitutes, like tofu, Gardenburgers, Boca burgers, etc contain soy protein. Sliced meats, lunchmeat, hotdogs almost all contain MSP, but I have found a few higher priced brands to have safe varieties. Some sausage and bacon has MSP. BEWARE OF CANNED TUNA FISH, almost all contains soy.
Beans - most canned and dry varieties are fine
This website is a good read: http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html
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Meal Ideas: (pm me for specific recipes)
Spaghetti, most jarred sauces are fine as long as they don't have cheese
Roast Beef in the crock pot with veggies
Meatball Minestrone ala Theosmom (pm me for the recipe if you don't have it)
Chicken Supreme (Chicken, potatoes, and a can of golden mushroom soup baked)
Chicken enchiladas (no cheese, Lawrys makes a soy free ench sauce)
(Guacamole makes any mexican night better!)
Chili Soup
Homemade chicken noodle soup
Sweet and Sour Turkey Meatloaf with sweet potatoes
Regular Meatloaf
Hamburgers on the grill
Pot Roast sandwiches (this is a crock pot recipe, very easy)
Apple Pie Pork Chops (baked pork chops with stuffing)
Black Bean and rice burritos
Salads with oil based dressings
Armenian Chicken (my crazy FILs recipe, grilled chicken marinated in Italian dressing)
Golden Hamburger Casserole (like a shepards pie)
Goolash (an old German recipe of tomato noodles and hamburger)
Sloppy Joes
Beef/potato turnovers (from our vegan mailing list)
Baked Ham or Turkey or Chicken
Barbeque Chicken
Runza sandwiches (cabbage and beef cooked in a pastry dough)
Breakfast for dinner (eggs, pancakes, waffles)
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Here are some brand names for you, thanks to the MSPI website! Good as of 4/7/06
Subway- Turkey sandwich on Italian with veggies and mustard, and Baked Lays.
Chick-fil-a- Chargrilled Chicken sandwich and fries.
Wendy's- Homestyle chicken fingers and fries. (I think the nuggets have milk or soy).
Arby's- Market Fresh turkey sandwich w/o cheese and regular fries
Chipotle- Veggie burrito with salsa and guacamole. I think the chicken is fine too, but I don't care for it.
Papa John's- veggie pizza without cheese. Of course, it is not as great as cheese pizza, but it is not bad.
Orowheat 100% Whole Wheat Bread
Orowheat whole wheat hamburger buns
Mission Fat Free Tortillas
Honey Maid Graham crackers
Old El Paso Taco Shells
Sara lee Cinnamon Raisin Bagels
Bushes Vegetarian Baked Beans
Old El Paso Refried Beans
Marinated artichoke hearts
Low Sodium Wheat Thins
Pace Picante Sauce
Whole Wheat Pasta
Concord Foods Roasted Potato Seasoning
Duncin Heinz white frosting and cake mix (They may have changed the ingredients for the cake and brownie mixes)
Humus
Toasted Oh's Cereal
Walmart's Great Value Apple Cinnamon Oatmeal
Walmart's Great Value Nature's Grain Cereal
Cascadian Farms Organic Cinnamon Raisin Granola
Avo Classic Guacamole
McCormick's Fajita Seasoning
Oscar Mayer Oven Roasted Turkey
Oscar Mayer Honey Roasted Turkey
Oscar Mayer Smoked Sausage
Lipton Fiesta Sides Spanish Rice
Mahatama Saffron Rice
La Choy Sweet and Sour Sauce
Shake and Bake Original Chicken
Jiffy Corn and Blueberry muffin mix (make with rice milk)
Kraft Light Catalina Dressing/ Fat Free Italian
Fleischmann's Light
Smart Balance Spread
Van's Organic Blueberry waffles
Ritz crackers and sticks
Regular Oreos
Uh oh Oreos
Golden Oreos
Vienna Fingers
Newman's Organic dark chocolate
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Love this book : The Milk/Soy Protein Intolerance (MSPI) Guidebook/Cookbook by Tamara Field
And more brand names that are ok:
Burger King Whopper Jr/Whopper are MSP free (no cheese) Bun is questionable now, so are fries!
Culver's Chicken Strips are MP free (but may have soy)
McDonalds has no current SAFE foods (apple pies are dairy free)
Arby's Chicken Strips are MSP free, regular fries are ok but curly are not
Chipolte Mexican Grill vegetarian burritos are MSP free (no cheese, sourcream)(Guac is ok)
Wendy's quarter pound single is ok without the cheese
Go to http://www.godairyfree.org to find a more current list
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Thanks for this info Stacy. Just found out today that Livvi is MSPI after a visit to our paed - only took the health professionals 6 mnths to finally diagnose what I have suspected since 5wks so we are now both milk free zones!
Thanks again
Sara
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First, I must say that you GraceKelleysmom has provided some wonderful information. It must have been very frustrating getting your diet just right though. I want to know what you think about my 15 week old son. When he was about 3 weeks old he started grunting in his sleep. Loud :shock: . Eventually he would wake up and fart or poop, loudly. After about 2 weeks of him waking us up at 4:30am we decided it was time for him to move to his own room. Now I d/f him at 12:00 and then he wakes up at 5:30 crying. When I go in I put him over my shoulder to get him to pass gas and poop but by then he can't get back to sleep. The same thing with his naps. His gas and poops wake him up and he gets so upset that he I can't get him to go back down :( . He's definitely straining to do it, although there is no blood or mucous in his stool.
I use soy milk in my oatmeal or on cereal about every other day. I usually use sprouted wheat bread, but ocassionally just buy wheat. I have eliminated corn, onions, broccoli, chocolate, beans and ocassionally I will eat a piece of cheese or sour cream. I guess I want to know if you think this is an intolerance or if he's just a gassy baby. And, what vegetables do you eat? You think beans are okay? I figure if it makes me gassy it will make him gassy.
I massage him every day (he has fussed during the tummy rub the last three days) I Called the doctor and they are going to give us a bowel relaxer to try. I don't know the name of it yet. But it's hard to work on extending his naps when he is hurting and upset.
Thanks for your input. Sorry so long.
Veronica
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This is so interesting Stacy, when my brother was born 22 years ago, he displayed almost all of the above symtoms you posted, but on top of all that he also couldn't tolerate my mom's BM (maybe cos she was eating the proteins??) she went through 11 weeks of he ll where he gained not one oz in weight, he would feed for 23 hours a day, vomit it all right back up and scream with hunger again! The health professionals answer back then: Wean him!! So they did and he started solids at 11 weeks old!! He would however tolerate soy formula and so they used that as well! I showed my mom this information and she was amazed, she did the best she could at the time with the information she was given, but it just shows how much more we have learned in 20 or so years!!
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Hi Clair, I agree that it is wonderful that someone is finally putting a name to the hurt that so many babies suffer. There is a hospital near me that studies babies with MSPI and they are finding that so many babies in my region have it. So now they are going to try to determine if it is regional or everywhere, but my guess is everywhere. I'm glad your mom liked the info I posted. And yep, we do the best we can at raising our kids with the info we have!
Veronica, to me he sounds like a gassy baby that has problems with passing stools. I'm not an expert, but I don't see much correlation between foods I eat and how Max (or my other dd) feels EXCEPT the milk and soy. I *knew* that something was really wrong, he cried all the time, his tummy always hurt.
I think the best you can do is to try totally eliminating milk and soy from your diet for two weeks, and see if you lo does any better. The hardest part is finding the hidden proteins, they are in almost every processed food. I eat lots of vegetables, from broccoli to potatoes. I eat citrus and regular fruits and lots of beans. Our day to day diet consists of homemade soups, roasted veggies, oatmeals, homemade breads. I don't eat very much meat anymore.
There are anti-gas medicines that baby can take like Mylicon.
I will post back if I think of anything else.
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Stacy,
Another quick query... is it just chance that you got 2 babies with M(S)PI or if you have one with it are you more likely to get a second/ third etc?? Does this mean then that you could have one child without then one with MSPI then another that is fine??
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Well, they don't know too much yet. Grace was just cows milk intolerant, she tolerated soy just fine. I've read a little about an "allergenic window" where if you expose a child to something at a certain point (can't remember if it was prenatal or early infancy), that if they are prone to the allergy, they will get it. I know that most children outgrow allergies or intolerances the longer you can with-hold the food.
So Max is MSPI. The doctors have pretty much said to expect it with all future children. I know that they said you could have one that had it and one that didn't, but with my track record and the allergies in our family, I'm going to abstain for future pregancies and nurslings.
Funny thing is that I feel so much better not consuming cows milk, I may not go back to having it ever. Miss the soy though. :wink:
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Call me a bad mom, but I am pretty sure dd#2 has mspi just as dd#1 had. No formula including Nutramigen has helped and God help me, I've tried but can't give up the milk! It's not milk itself, but that almost every darn food out there has it somehow in it. I know I don't have the self control to live on beans and veggies. So I want to know, what happens to dd if I don't give up milk and continue to bf? Besides the obvious tummyaches, will her intestines be ruined?? I would be totally willing to give up bfing if there was a formula that did not contain milk/soy. Anyone know of one?? Also, are the Carnation "comfort proteins" predigested proteins like in Nutramigen? I haven't tried that one yet but am getting tired of spending money on formula only to throw it away when she can't tolerate it. HELP!!!!!!!
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I had a homeopathic Dr recommend Goats Milk Formula. That might help, but changing your diet will be a lot cheaper (and harder).
I cut out a bunch of foods 10 years ago on an elimination diet (to determine which foods bothered me). It was difficult...and I can't imagine trying to do it and take care of a child (or two in your case) at the same time.
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I've never heard of goat's milk formula...any idea where you get it?
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No, I don't. I would call some heath food stores. It's certainly not going to be at a regular supermarket or discount store.
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Stacy,
Thank you so much for your information on this subject!! :)
The more info I get though, the more I panic :?
My lo does not show any signs of the allergy with the foods I eat thankfully but I have just come to realise that I do not drink milk only in tea (probably at most twice a day) My downfall would be cheese though I dread having to give that up :?
We received Nutramigen last week, it is the most foul smelling thing ever, I have not yet brought myself to try Sarah with it :!:
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From what I have read, I think that the increased can lead to total intolerance or food allergy as an adult. It can be SOOOOOO hard to follow the MSPI diet, especially if you don't have support of your spouse and/or family. I worked really hard to find suitable substitutes so now I actually enjoy what I eat and I eat a big variety of foods. It is all about finding the safe foods (these can be easy foods - frozen and processed ones are out there) and sticking to them, it doesn't have to be about veggies and beans! :wink: I love to bake and cook, too, and my crock pot does the work for me several nights a week.
Those predigested formulas like Nutramigen, Alimentum, Carnation, they only work for some babies. I tried searching the message forum at http://www.mspiguide.com/ and came up with a couple formulas that you could try. One seems quite popular, Neocate, but some babies react because it is made from corn. Another is Elicare or maybe Elecare. I think they might be available by prescription or from your doctor. Do you have a supportive doctor?
A bit of rice milk in tea really doesn't taste too bad. I found that the first weeks of the diet were the hardest. Giving up cheese was hard. But each week it gets easier, especially as my pregnancy weight rolled off 8) ! I guess I figure that in the grand scheme of things, this period of time that I nurse and have to eat this way is so short compared to a lifetime of health for my kids. I can't imagine my baby never, ever being able to eat something like ice cream some day, so for now I am willing to do what it takes to make that happen for him. I am not willing to give up nursing though, so it's this or he starves!
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Stacy, I want to thank you for putting a name to what I think my DD is experiencing. She has been diagnosed with reflux - I don't know if this is linked to MSPI in any way? In any case, here's a story I posted on the reflux board:
After reading the MSPI (Milk/Soy Protein Intolerance) announcement on the breastfeeding board something has just suddenly occured to me! :!: :idea: During my entire pregnancy, any time I had dairy (milk in particular) I would vomit uncontrollably. I was 20 weeks by the time I linked my sickness to dairy, so I stopped drinking milk and eating cheese and felt much better. I still vomited at least once or twice a week for the remainder of my pregnancy, so I'm now thinking that it may have been the soy. I occasionally had soy milk on my cereal in the morning. :shock:
Also, from 30 weeks onwards, the baby had hiccups in my tummy about 7-8 times each day and usually after I ate!!! It was really annoying, especially when I was trying to sleep. She still has "wet" hiccups a few times each day now, which is a reflux symptom.
Well, to all those Doctors and Midwives who told me my diet had nothing to do with Tallulah's reflux, wake up :evil: !! I'm obviously intolerant to dairy/soy and so is she!
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Oh I am so glad it has helped! (hee, hee, I am a touch reflux libra too! :wink: ) Isn't it wonderful when we finally figure out what is "wrong" with our babies and can help them feel better? Do YOU feel better eating the MSPI diet too? I sure do!
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I wanted to get this information out there to those parents with mspi kids. If you are willing to try an alternative therapy, your child may be able to be "cured". I was very skeptical when I was told about acupressure by a friend. It sounded like voodoo and it sounded like a hoax. But after 5 months of dd#1 having bloody stools, exzema, and tummy aches from mspi, I took the chance and took her to an NAET doctor. She was treated ONE time for her milk allergy and has never had a problem with it since. In fact milk is her favorite drink today at 2yrs old! When dd#2 was born, I prayed she wouldn't have mspi, but alas she did. After dealing with her tummy aches, I again took her to the same doctor. After 2 treatments for her milk allergy, she too is now tolerating it when I eat/drink dairy. I loved saying goodbye to the mspi diet! Here is the quick breakdown of how it works. It is based on the idea that there are meridians in the body that when they get out of balance, can cause allergies. If treated for that allergen, the meridians realign and no longer recognize that food as an allergen. This is what happen, you hold a vial containing (milk if that is what you are allergic to) and they treat you with acupressure on your back. Then for 25 hours after the treatment you must avoid that particular food. In my case, I pumped to keep my supply up while I gave both dd's Sililac Alimentum. After the 25 hours, the meridians should have "fixed themselves" and in my case, you no longer are allergic!! I know it sounds crazy but I have seen it work twice and know of several others that it has worked for. This would work for any kind of allergy...milk, soy, wheat, etc. Insurance usually doesn't pay for it and it can be a little pricey, but it was worth it for me. If you have ANY questions at all about this treatment, feel free to pm me. The website is NAET.com and you can locate a doctor there as well. Don't just rool your eyes and ignore this info like I did at first....My girls are proof it works. I praise God daily for their healing. Good Luck!!
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Wow, I am so glad that you found something that worked for your situation.
Unfortunately, I do not believe in that type of "healing."
But thanks for sharing, it may help someone else.
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Well, if I can find a reputable therapist in Sydney I'll definitely give it a try! I'm willing to try anything at this point as avoiding milk and soy is extremely difficult as I'm finding out. I also have to avoid sugar, eggs and citrus and they also upset dd. I'm losing quite a bit of weight (I weigh less now than I did on my wedding day) and I have had two blackouts which is quite alarming to say the least. So to go back to eating "normally" again would be a dream come true as I definitely want to continue breastfeeding.
Thanks for your advice.
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If it says it's "dairy free" is that ok? I have the Light Smart balance spread, but it says it has natural flavorings. Isnt that one of the things to avoid? I'm so stressed out that I'll miss something and cause her problems to worsen!
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Lyn, if I were you, I would avoid anything that says "natural flavorings" for at least a couple weeks. Then try to add something like your margarine back in, one thing at a time, and check for a reaction. If it's just an intolerance that she has, she may be able to tolerate certain things. I've found that to be true with ds.
The more you can avoid, the better chance they have to heal. I'm happy to say that I've found substitutes for nearly every food that I love, and eating this way has just become a way of life. I do miss pizza though!
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Lyn,
"Dairy free" doesn't actually mean dairy free in all cases. Check the ingredients for milk, whey, caseinate, lecithin. As Gracekellys mom said, not all kids react to all types but if your lo has a reaction you can see if it was to the caseinate and/or lecithin. Mine was severe reaction even if no milk...just the caseinate or lecithin. Hopes yours tolerates it better!
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"Dairy free" doesn't actually mean dairy free in all cases.
How confusing is that?!!! :?
I must admit this whole thing is really stressing me out. I went to the store yesterday and got things I think will be ok. I guess the trick is to only eat things that aren't very processed. I got bread, pita, pasta, and rice cakes that don't have many ingredients. Nothing I don't recognize at least!
I did get some wasa Multi Grain crackers. There are two ingredients I'm not sure about, Malt extract and monoglycerides. Are those fine?
Gosh, I feel clueless.
I'm sure it will get easier with time.
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Hi
I'm wondering whether my ds has an allergy to milk. He doesn't feed well during the day (I start my day with porridge (oats) with 250 mls of milk). His poo is very green, runny, mucousy and smelly. He has also started fussing at the breast and crying after a few mouthfuls then rejecting the breast. We tried formula the other day for the df and in the morning he was covered in a rash and had a puffy face, especially around the eyes. He doesn't have any blood in his stools though. Your opinion is very valued. Thanks!
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Oskarsmom, that reaction to formula is really scary. I wouldn't give it to him ever again, and he needs to be seen by a doctor. The blood in the stool is often microscopic. Let us know what the doctor says.
Lyn ->Malt extract can contain traces of milk protein. It is hard to find bread without it. I had a local bakery (through a natural foods store) that made all their bread milk-free. It is actually pretty easy to make your own bread, which is what I do now, in a bread maker every couple days. Do you own one or have one you could borrow? Or if you like bagels, I have had success with a brand I get at Walmart that doesn't have dairy or soy in it. They are fine for toast and sandwiches.
I know you're in the states, so I can be of help with some brands.
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Thanks Stacy, I'll avoid those crackers then.
Oskarsmum- I definitely agree, take him to your pediatrician ASAP. I couldn't see the blood in E's stool, but they found it when they tested for it. Sounds like something is going on with your lo. He sounds so much like my dd! Good luck, I hope a diet change will make things much better for you guys.
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Thank you Stacy for all the information! I have a 6 month old with a milk and egg allergy, so I am trying my best to avoid those products. I have two questions and haven't had much luck finding answers....
1. I have read that Junior Mints do not have milk, but one of the ingredients is cocoa butter.... doesn't that have milk in it?
2. I have also read that Bisquick is milk free, mine seems to have buttermilk listed as an ingredient... doesn't that have milk in it? (I do have the generic brand, so that may be the difference)
Thanks in advance for any replies!
Christine
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Nope, cocoa butter is the "meat" from inside the cocoa bean. It is not really a "butter" and is fine. Juniormints are made on machines that also process candies made with milk, so caution if your lo is truly "allergic" and not just "intolerant."
My bisquick (the real stuff) is milk/soy protein free. So I bet it is just your off-brand stuff. Which is funny because most off-brands are less likely to use milk! Yes, buttermilk is a big no-no.
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luv2savelives-My ds is allergic to eggs, soy, dairy, wheat and peanuts. And that is just what we know about. We have eliminated all these things from his diet because I couldn't stand watching him be sick. His worst symptoms are cough that I CANNOT stop and runny nose and diarreha. Anyway though a MD I go to who leans toward alernative medicine suggested a woman that sounds much like the place you went to. We were/are very leary about it but decided to give it a try. It is cheap where we take Aidan and in NO way hurts him so I decided what the heck. We have been going for a few weeks. She found many other things that he was allergic to as well as the things we already knew. BTW I DID NOT tell her what we knew he was allergic to before she started nor did she ask. She has "de-sensitized" him to many things. So far we have added back sugar and eggs with NO problems. I'm so hopeful that we can add back wheat and soy also. We go back next week so we shall see. He hasn't had a cough or runny nose since we started his diet change and started with this woman. Well two days he did after staying with my mom and she fed him what she thought was a dairy free cheese but I read the label and found a milk protien :roll: . I was freaking out because he was sick and I didn't know why and a week later found this out :evil: . She told us he may not be able to have dairy even after she is done because she can't help with digestive issues only allergies. Sorry this is so long I just wanted to say we are doing the same thing :)
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I was at a GI specialist for Emilio the other day and he told me that 50-60% of babies who have milk protein intolerance (Emilio does) also have soy protein intolerance.
Just an FYI.
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Thanks for your help Stacy. I am finding it very hard to determine whether or not something is safe! I have two more questions that hopefully you or someone can help me with.
-I heard caramel flavoring has milk in it, what about caramel color? (pretty sure this is ok, but wanted to make sure)
-I have heard that sausage is bad, but I can't find anything in the ingredients list that could possibly be bad.... is all sausage unsafe (eg has milk)? what ingredient should I be looking out for?
-Do all chicken broths have milk? What is the culprit ingredient there? The only thing that looked suspicious was "soy and corn protein"....
Thanks again for any information!
Christine
(dd is 6 months old and is allergic to milk and egg)
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Caramel color is ok.
Most sausages have milk or soy protein in them. Since you're just milk free, you should have an easier time finding an ok one. I think it is stuff like flavorings, maple flavoring, butter flavoring, and caseins that I find in them.
With chicken broth, butter or butter flavor. Most of these will just have soy protein for those avoiding soy protein. My favorite chicken and beef broth is Swanson's Low Sodium. They also have a vegetarian vegetable broth that I use all the time, now in convenient carton to refrigerate what you don't use! :lol: :roll: :wink:
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I have a 7-month-old daughter with a family history of allergies on both sides. I don't know if it's important what kind of allergies have been seen in the family, but we have had all kinds, from hay fever to eczema to food allergies to asthma.
She has not exhibited any symptoms to any food I have given her so far, except that she did get a minor diaper rash when she was fed non-soy non-dairy hypoallergenic formula. Ah, the irony. :)
She is breastfed. The formula was only fed to her once, and we have no plans to use it again.
What I would like to do is introduce yoghurt at 9 months and see if she does all right. If so, I would go on to introducing ricotta cheese, then cottage cheese, and cream cheese. I would hold off introducing whole milk until one year.
I would like to do the same thing with wheat products--introduce bagels at 8 months or 9 months and see if she does all right, then introduce the more hardcore wheat products at one year.
I would really hate for her to miss out on the nutrition provided by things like yoghurt and bagels. And of course if she had symptoms of any kind, I would take her off the food immediately.
Since all of you on this thread have had experience with allergies and intolerances, what do you think of this plan? What would YOU do?
I will talk to my pediatrician before I do anything, of course, but I'd like some input from those who have been there, so if you can give me your insight, I thank you.
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This has been such a helpful bunch of reading. My first son was MSPI, or so we concluded after returning to the US for a visit. My sister identified it and put us on Nutramigen. Returning to the UK, the GP agreed that it was likely and Aidan was on a similar (hydrolysed whey protein) formula. No problems after that.
THIS time round, it's more problematic. I had no idea my breastmilk was adding to the problem. Elliott is BFing much better than his brother ever did, and ironically, it's made him suffer more. I will switch to the MSPI diet immediately.
But can someone help with this? I'm in the UK and I've mentioned these problems to my health visitor and GP (who have both looked at me as if I'm talking about a mythical illness!). I've had to top up, as my milk hasn't really been sufficient in volume for Elliott. And I mentioned I wanted a hydrolysed formula, given my other son's history. Again, I was met with complete ignorance. I asked the GP to suggest something and he gave me a script for a soy formula (I've read the same medical studies, which say that babies with a milk protein intolerance will have a 50:50 chance of reacting to soy, as the soy protein is also a long chain).
I finally found Cow and Gate Omneo Comfort (hydrolysed whey). Are there any other formulas available in the UK, in case this isn't working out?
Just out of curiosity, would you say this is why Elliott feeds every 1.5 hours, day and night (and then throws a fair bit of it up again)?? I only ask, as the lack of sleep is damaging both Elliott and his parents.
Thanks for any advice, Ginny
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Hi Ginny and welcome. I don't know too much about the hydrolyzed formulas, I've been able to bf both my children now without supplementation. I'm going to post a link to a neat website, that has a forum that you may be able to find your answer in or post the question to meet other UK moms of MSPI-ers.
http://www.mspiguide.com/
I DO know that many MSPI babies have problems with hydro formula, the proteins are still there just "predigested." (One mom recently "joked" predigested by whom? :shock: :x ) So you could try asking for a different formula, say a goat's formula, to see if that made a difference.
The best thing for these babies is of course, breastmilk. And kudos to you for finding the MSPI diet, it gets easier every day to stick to it! If you have access to a lactation consultant, who could give tips on increasing supply, you may find that you have plenty of milk for your ds and not even need a formula.
Pop on over to see us at on the breastfeeding forum, let me know how old your ds is and we'll see if we can help. :wink:
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Hi
Sorry so late getting back to you, been a manic day.
Lukasmum - this is just my personal opinion but I would try and get calcium and other vitamins/fibre into your lo in other ways for as long as you can. We did not even think about food allergies even though I get very bad hayfever and animal allergies and DH also gets hay fever and very mild eczema - we now have a milk allergy to deal with - Livvis is now 10 months her doc reckons it won't be gone before 1 year. As you have the whole caboodle of allergies by the sounds of it I would say leave it as long as you possibly can to introduce ANY of the typical allergens and reap the benefits later on when you don't have hay fever or asthma to contend with.
Ginny - We're in a similar boat to you. We've never tried Nutramigen as I requested Neocate when diagnosed. Neocate is an elemental forumla, meaning it is made up to simulate a milk rather than being broken down from milk products (not sure that's the most accurate description but it gives you the gist).
We are trying Neocate here and there as I am returning to work in 3 weeks and as I have a low supply not sure how long my milk will last, however I am taking it cautiously as it is possible Livvi is reacting to it(very bad nappy rash and a bit snuffly - could be teeth though).
What I am trying to say in a waffly way is if you can try and get your milk supply up especially if your lo is less than 6 months. As far as your doctor is concerned, they don't like the word allergy (as real as it is) and may respond better to the word sensitivity. IMO, get yourself clued up on as much research as you can (print out info too - especially from other medical sites) and then go in, discuss but tell them what treatment you would like for your child, I would also ask to be referred to a pediatrician. If you want to chat/discuss in more detail then pm me.
Sara
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I appreciate your frank reply. I will definately take it to heart.
I am still waiting for my pediatrician to get back to me, but I imagine she will probably tell me something similar. Basically, wait until one year, because if you introduce it earlier and there is an allergy, the allergy will be worse that it would have been otherwise.
Thanks again. :)
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Hi Lukas mum, I hope I didn't offend you :oops: . It's such an emotive subject, particularly as we got very bad advise. If we were given a second chance and had the experience of other mums to go on before we started weaning and dabbling with formulas then we may not be dealing with difficult diets and trying to educate or family and friends (I sometimes think some of them think we're mad and that I'm just neurotic!)
Once again, no offence was intended, I just find it's easier to come straight to the point. :D
Sara
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We have recently been told that the youngest has acid reflux disease. My older kids all have been lactose intolerant, but this little one can not even use the special formula we used. (Lactofree). No matter what we try he is up most of the time throwing up or having gas problems. So, I am wondering if you are talking about this acide reflux?
Any help would be appreciated,
Cara
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Acid reflux is something different, however some doctors have been studying a possible link between reflux and milk or soy intolerance.
There are medications that you can give your baby to help with the reflux, if you haven't found our reflux forum, scroll down on the main index. Our med was prevacid.
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I appreciate you getting back to me so fast. I was not sure of the difference until you pointed me in the right direction. :lol:
Thanks again,
Cara
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maybe this should be added to the list of ok foods/foods to watch for, but I just realized that canned tuna has soy in it! :shock: :? I'm so bugged that they add vegetable broth to the tuna--I never even thought to look, so I've been eating it off and on for the last 4 months--no wonder why Savannah seems to have random flare-ups!
Also, Walmart's shortbread cookies are ok!!!!!! :P So exciting to find a cheap premade cookie I can have. (of course, probably better when I didn't know about this--at least I had to put the effort in to make cookies then).
Just wanted to let people know about what i've found :)
~Kim
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Hey Kim, try the label on "low sodium" starkist tuna, I think that is the soy free one. I also found another, Chicken of the Sea chunk white albacore, that is soy free, but I don't like the taste unless it's cooked in something. :roll:
You shouldn't have told me about the cookies.... :lol:
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Stacy (GraceKelly's mom)
What ingredient is in the Mc Donald's bun that makes it not milk free? Their website says the hamburgers are milk free. I had McDonalds on Friday and my son spit up a tiny bit once. Saturday, I tried Chickfila again because I wasn't completely sure if there grilled chicken was dairy free or not, but hubby wanted that for lunch. My son spit up twice in the evening and the 2nd time it was almost a vomit and he was congested. The ingredients don't appear to be milk derived but I did notice after I looked at the ingredients again and noticed something that I didn't notice before. One ingredient is butter flavored vegetable oil. I'm assuming this is probably the problem. I think I have come to the conclusion none of my fast food choices are good choices for me which makes it very hard since we are out and about a lot.
Trying to figure out what to eat for dinner is just as hard because just about everything we ate before had at least one processed item that contains milk. Where do you find most of your recipes? I haven't completely convinced my hubby that cooking with rice milk will be okay. I don't want to have to make 2 meals since making one is a challenge.
Thanks for your help.
Minerva
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The McD's buns were milk-free, and then they weren't, and then now they are supposedly milk-free again. :lol: :roll: If you're only dealing with an intolerance, you could do a test and make sure everything else in your diet is "clean" for four days and only eat the McD's. Then you will know if it is the McD's or not. Even if the website says milk-free, you always run the chance that your store ran out of buns and are using something else. So if lo seems to be bothered, skip it for a few months and then try again.
PS a little spit up is normal for all babies!
Buttered flavored vegetable oil is a milk-protein product. The hard thing with chicken sandwiches from anywhere is what they are cooked in. Most fast food restaurants use a butter-based "whirl" liquid to grill in. Or they butter and toast the bun.
My fav out-to-eat is Burger King Whopper no cheese. And Taco Bell 7 layer burritos no cheese/no sour cream. We are trying so hard to only eat out once/week right now and I've been trying new recipes, I should post a few! Here are some ideas to get you started:
Barbeque chicken/baked potato/steamed veggies or corn-on-the-cob
Meatloaf/mashed potatoes (with rice milk and dairy-free marg)/frozen veggies
Hamburgers/fries/baked beans
Chili soup or Meatball Minestrone (this is dh's favorite!)
Any meat/veggie combo in a crock pot!
Fried eggs and toast/bacon
Pancake (made with Bisquick) and sausage night
Spaghetti with meat or without (dh can add his own cheese)
Hardest part is finding substitutes for your faves! I still make chicken enchiladas and just let dh top his with cheese and sour cream, I use guac. Or I make a shepard's pie with golden mushroom condensed soup instead of cream of mushroom and let dh put cheese on his.
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Thank you for responding.
I keep forgetting kids do spit up. It just seems every time I manage to avoid milk products he doesn't spit up, isn't congested and his cradle cap disappears. Its the not so apparent products that I keep eating and causing problems. I bought Smart Balance regular instead of light one day and it toook about 5 days before I figured it out. I'm still trying to figure out if soy products bother him. Every time I have soy products it turns out I also had milk products.
We've been eating lots of spaghetti and tacos lately because they are fast, easy and safe. I just need to start my meal planning earlier. We used to decide what to eat for dinner a few hours before dinner. I don't really like Burger King or Taco Bell, but I may learn to like them.
We had chipolte chicken fajitas tonight and I managed to make my own Mexican rice since all the box mixes I have seen were not milk free.
Thanks again,
Minerva
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I just discovered that Hyland's teething tablets are milk based.
Now I know why DS kept spitting up this week. I kept thinking, but I didn't have any milk. I should have known to look at the ingredients.
Minerva
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I've read through all the postings in this forum and found them extremely helpful - thanks to everyone. I've included a brief history before my questions.
I think my ds is more sensitive to milk proteins than I thought before. Max is 15-months and still spits up on a daily basis (I can't imagine this is normal at his age). He always has dark circles under his eyes and suffers from quite severe gas at times (usually after eating something with milk proteins in it that I missed).
He has been on Alimentum formula since he was three months old and the plan is for him to remain on it until 18-months. Until he was about 10-months I had to treat each bottle with Ovol (anti-gas) drops in order to make him more comfortable.
He used to also be soy intolerant but seems to have outgrown that (I can feed him tofu without a severe negative reaction).
I'm going to get my Dr to send us to a specialist of some sort to try and sort things out - do I need an allergist or a nutrionist?
The brand of bread I have been feeding him contains the following ingredients - I thought it was safe but now I'm not sure: Whole wheat flour, water, yeast, glucose-fructose/sugar, vegetable oil (soy or canola), wheat gluten, salt, calcium propionate, monoglycerides, sodium stearoyl-2-lactylate.
I also wanted to confirm that I need to avoid Malt extract, and lecithin - correct?
Sorry for all the questions but I hate the fact that I'm causing him all this discomfort.
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The malt extract thing is a case by case basis. And so is the soy lecithin, some can tolerate it and some can't. The bread looks ok to me. It is hard to tell with the preservatives, which could contain milk and which don't.
You might try posting those questions on the mspi forum at
http://www.mspiguide.com and click on forums. Those ladies are always so nice and helpful.
I personally would go with an allergist, just because my past experiences with a nutritionists are that they aren't very knowledgeable about what to eat in allergy situations. (No offense to nutritionists, they just aren't trained to be allergists)
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My Dr. just left a message saying that he is too young for an allergist and if I want to take him to a nutrionist to go ahead but she can't give me a referal as it is not covered under our government health care. In other words - get lost!!
I'm really frustrated now.
How old were your kids when they saw allergists?
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I would try and find some way to see an allergist. I can't see why lo would be too young. Too young for allergy tests maybe, but not for allergy advice from an allergy specialist. Even if they don't test they could probably give better advice than a nutritionist.
Just my opinion from our experience.
Sara
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Mine have never seen allergist, our intolerance is more of a digestive problem than an actual ALLERGIC REACTION (!). If my dc was having severe allergic reactions, like a swelling up or breathing difficulty.
Our intolerances were diagnosed, like I said before, by our normal children's doctor. She did a stool culture and found it positive for blood. We eliminated certain foods until the stool culture came back clean, no blood.
It is merely an upset tummy and loose nasty bowel movements that we deal with, so I know I can control the input to get better output.
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What Stacy is saying is good advice. I jumped to the conclusion that there were allergy symptoms but this may not be the case. You may want to try and see someone indpendently or try and find a doc who is more in tune with allergies and intolerances. Not sure how the system works over there and how is easy that would be.
Sara
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Thanks for all the advice.
I found a pediatric allergist and spoke with them about seeing my son. They will see him if they have a Dr's referal so we went and insisted that we get a referal today.
The Dr. was quite agreeable (seems she wasn't aware that a pediatric allergist existed in the area) so hopefully we will get into see him soon.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Nicola
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Hi There
Thought I'd close the loop with you all on my dairy challenges with Max.
Allergist did skin tests and confirmed that he is allergic to milk (as well as nuts which was a bit of a shock :o ).
Now that I know what I'm dealing with my next step is to see a pediatric nutrionist to learn what I can and can't feed him.
Thanks to everyone for their help and support.
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Me again!
The pediatric dietician recomended we take Max off the Alimentum and put him on Neocate. She thinks the fact that Alimentum is milk based is the cause of the spit-up and a lot of the gas issues.
I've done some research on Neocate and it is available in both an infant junior formula here in Canada. I have to special order it by the case which is extrememly expensive. The money is not the issue if he'll drink it but my HUGE concern is that he won't take it and I'll have landed up spending over $150 for nothing.
Does anyone have any experience with anything like this?
Livismum (Sara) I know that you were using this formula and that Livi is the same age as Max. Are you still using it?
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Do you have any other options besides the Neocate? I mean, he is 16 months old ... could he just drink enriched rice milk? Is he not soy intolerant? So he could drink enriched soy milk? Those both have the same calcium/Vit D as cows milk. Why formula? And why expensive yucky formula at that? :roll:
I am SO glad you were able to figure out the nut thing. And of course, the milk allergy. Knowing for sure would be such peace of mind. And now you can see a nutritionist, hopefully one that specializes in allergic diets.
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I would avoid the formula. He's old enough to not need it. My son is almost 13 months old and his doctor said to give him rice milk at his one year checkup. She said to give the same quantities as cow's milk so about 16 ozs.
I'm so glad you were able to see an allergist. I cancelled the skin tests when I noticed an improvement with my DS although he still can't have all milk based products. Our doctor recommended we not introduce eggs and nuts too until the dairy intolerance was completely gone.
Minerva
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I've found these postings really interesting, although I don't think I've got it too bad after all I've read!!!
My 8 monther used to be very spilly and quite distressed at times after/during feeds. Feeds would take SO long, and then he'd often seem to loose heaps of that liquid gold. At about 4 months of age a friend suggested cutting out all dairy, and just like that, he's fine!!!
Another friend (who caught me drinking milk by the litre when I was pregnant) said it was probably that which caused the allergy. I had maybe 3 glasses of milk a day when preggers.
Baby is still BF, and oh how I miss my cheese, and icecream, and yoghurt, and ...
The big question is: will he grow out of it?
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Most babies grow out of MSPI by the time they are two. Some even earlier. :wink:
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Max outgrew his by 12 months. Grace was 18 months. I am finding that I am sensitive to soy, don't know if I always was, but I still can't eat it without getting ill. I'd like to be allergy tested myself.
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How have your MSPI babies done with starting solids?
Marisa in on Neocate and has been for a few months now. HUGE difference. She can tolerate rice cereal (used to have to thicken her bottles) but it constipates her. Doctor had us try some fruits/veggies but all gave her some sort of reaction - pears and prunes and squash gave her gas/cramping and extreme fussiness (like pre-Neocate days) as wel as congestion. Apples gave her rash and increased vomiting. She can tolerate pear juice though. No increased night wakings - but she's always been a good sleeping, even at the height of her reflux issues.
Now we are waiting until 6 months before trying anything again. And then will likely go VERY slowly. I'm also happy to make my own foods when we start trying again.
I know that MSPI babies have more sensitive stomachs/digestive systems and am not in a rush - but just wondering when we can realistically hope that her body will be ready and what foods some of you have had luck with. Maybe if we can stop all the constipation a bit of mashed up banana thinned with formula would be good?
Any input would be appreciated. TIA.
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Now we are waiting until 6 months before trying anything again. And then will likely go VERY slowly.
I thinking waiting is a good idea when it comes to allergy babies. We haven't had any problems but we waited until she was 6 months old to start solids.
I know that MSPI babies have more sensitive stomachs/digestive systems and am not in a rush - but just wondering when we can realistically hope that her body will be ready.
Every baby is different. I can tell dd's tummy is already getting a little better (not quite so sensitive) but other babies can be over a year old before they show improvement. I think you have the right idea by taking it slow. You may want to keep a food diary if you're noticing a lot of different symptoms. :wink: Good luck.
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Thanks Kayna. Would love to hear from others about their experiences as well!
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Hi everyone, I have just started to suspect a milk allergy in my lo and was so grateful to find this discussion. I was wondering if watery stools with no solids can be connected to this or if that is something different. He only has that rarely and blood only a few times. More often is green frothy stools. He has a lot of spitting up and congestion. His stomach doesn't seem to bother him and he's gaining weight fine. Does this sound like a milk allergy? I've cut out milk and soy for 3 days and his spitting up is practically gone. Is it too soon for that to be from no milk? He's also started spacing out feeds to 3 1/2 hrs so I wasn't sure if that is what has helped the spitting up. There has been no improvement in stools and the congestion is actually worse, but I'm not sure if that is just a cold. Ok, I know I've gone on and on. This is all just new to me and I'm afraid I'm going to do all this diet stuff and still not be able to tell if that is the problem. What do you think?
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I would continue the diet for a little while longer, and see if he continues to improve. Then you can slowly add back, one thing at a time. Maybe it was just milk, or just soy, and not both?
Watch his congestion. If you are in the US, it is RSV season. Newborns are pretty congested, but RSV and having a hard time breathing are scary.
As for the pp with questions with solids, Max did fine with solids. He has always had funny food preferences though, that I wondered may be due to his tummy. He loved fruits and veggies but has never liked meats. Rice cereal was bad for him but oatmeal was ok.
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Ethan was not diagnosed with his milk allergy until 6 months. We went weeks thinking it was just teething causing the loose stools! I saw blood occassionally, but when we went to the peds, the tested and found "occult" blood...whatever that is.
From someone that has outgrown the allergy...how will we know when he outgrows this thing? Do we just start trying things at about a year of age?
I think my pediatrician rushed us by having me try cheese and yogurt after only a few weeks off dairy entirely. And Coffee-Mate "non-dairy" creamer is the worst. Causes a terrible red bottom and belly rash!
Just thought I would get that off my chest...non-dairy *#@?!
Ethan is on rice cereal, fruits and veges, and is having NO problems, knock on wood! His poops are now much smellier though, not horrible, but stinky...I'm guessing because of the solids????
It is so good to have other moms to talk to that have experienced this. Thanks to all that have posted!
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I waited until a year to start my kids on dairy solids. Yogurt is the one to try first. DD didn't tolerate it until 18 months, DS tolerated it at 12 months. I waited until I thought their stools were fine and had them tested to make sure. I really think the longer they go without exposure to the milk proteins, the faster they heal. With dd, I didn't do the elimination until 8 weeks or so old, with ds it was from birth for dairy.
I read something the other day that said that doctors now suspect that some cases of juvenile diabetes are linked with cows milk protein exposure in infancy. I can't wait to see more studies on this.
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Hi everyone, I have been doing no milk or soy products for 6 days now and his stools are all finally normal Yeah! :DStill spitting up , though slightly less. I hoped that would go away too. Congestion is only slightly better too. I'm going to stay strict for 10 days then I'm going to try to reintroduce soy. How long does it take for something I eat to show up in him? If soy goes ok what should I try to reintroduce next? Are they ever just allergic to straight milk, but can do cheese and cooked products? Thanks for all the great info!
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Hi there,
thank goodness for this thread! I have been avoiding all soy and dairy for the last 4 weeks as my now 11 week old daughter had been producing bloody stools and had been losing weight. Her poo is now fine and she appears to be gaining weight again and everyone (early childhood nurse and gp) is telling me to start reintroducing soy and dairy to my diet. I am understandably wary of this and have some questions for those of you who have been there:
- when do you think would be the optimal time to start reintroducing those foods to my diet (she is fully breast fed)?
- what foods should I try first and in what quantity?
- should I try them at any particular time of day?
- any other advice?
many thanks in advance
Sara and Zoe
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No, go with your mommy instinct on this one, it is right! You should continue to avoid those foods. If you are unsure if it is milk, soy, or both, I'd understand considering trying one or the other to see if the reaction happens again. Unless you are sure it is both.
It is recommended that we wait until 12 months to do a reintroduction. No milk or soy for her either. That is no yogurt, cheese, and some moms don't even do cows beef because the protein mimics the milk protein so closely. At 12 months, I would try yogurt for YOU while still nursing. Wait a week for a reaction. Then you can try more milk products slowly. Add soy if the milk goes ok. If she is ok with both through you, then she can try yogurt herself and then on the same schedule posted for you.
The longer she is breastfed, the better her chances of not living with a lifelong allergy or intolerance. I think I posted this earlier, but my dd outgrew it at 18 months, my ds at 12 months. Some children take longer than that. But it was so worth their health to be milk/soy free as long as I was, and to continue nursing 12 mos/16 mos respectively.
Best of luck! And post with any questions.
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Thanks very much Stacy, it's nice to hear I'm doing the right thing. I can't really fathom at this stage trying to reintroduce dairy/soy and potentially giving poor Zoe a sore tummy, just because I'm missing my cheese and chocolate!...I'll ignore the bullying from the professionals!
thanks again
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well I am pretty sure the Palmer is either milk or/and soy protein intolerant. It seems like everytime I have dairy I also have soy. I need to do better about following the diet so I can see for sure. However he doesn't have blood in his stools that I know of. We have check them once and it was negative.. do you think we should check again? I don't see blood, but I know that it isn't always visable. Did your lo show occult blood the first time they checked? His symptoms are that he gets a diaper rash and starts nursing poorly. He pulls off, is frantic and cries. Once I watch my diet for a week or so he gets better with nursing and the rash goes away. He gets a little more crabby during the day, but still sleep fairly well at night at least.
My problem is that he also reacts to garlic, brocolli, spicy foods, tomato products, citrus fruits... I can't eat anything. The upside is I am almost back to my pre pregnancy weight. But really I don't know how long I can keep up not eating anything! I am tired and crabby. I guess I don't really have a choice as I tried Elecare formula (like Neocate) and he refused to drink it plus I am not willing to shell down $500 plus dollars a month for formula.
:'(
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Cassie, you may find as he gets a little older he is less sensitive to some of the other things. (garlic, other vegetables) My S-MIL is allergic to citrus, including raw tomatoes. She is ok with tomatoes if they are cooked (spaghetti, chili soup) though.
Do you think the pulling off could have anything to do with him not liking the way your milk tastes after eating certain things? Although I think the flavor variation would be so small, so maybe not?
You may find that as the Prevacid continues to heal his tummy, the burn with eating will go away and he will nurse better. The longer you nurse him and are dairy/soy free, the better his tummy/gut will heal too. Even if you aren't getting blood (yet) in the stools doesn't mean he isn't MSPI. It takes time and exposure to get the blood, but some moms on the mspi board report no blood ever.
Yay for losing the weight, doesn't it feel wonderful?
And yep on the expensive formula, I am almost glad it is so expensive because it is a deterrent for a mom who will/can nurse. This time will fly!
I lived on salads, sandwiches and dairy/soy free soups for lunches, and got creative for cooking dinners. It is harder and harder to be soy free because of the high protein diet craze, soy protein is added to sooooooo many processed foods.
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Cassie~
I just wanted to mention that dd was one of the ones who never had blood in her stools (at least, not that we saw and we never had her tested), but she definately had a reaction every single time I ate dairy or soy (rash on her chin, runny nose, dark circles under her eyes, etc. . .). So if you are seeing a reaction, I don't think it matters whether you test for blood--you know it affects him.
Good luck with finding stuff to eat! I know it can be hard. I ate a lot of peanut butter (definately did not help me lose the preg. weight ;), made my own bread (I have a great recipe if you are interested!), enjoyed whatever treats I was allowed (poptarts, semi-sweet choocolate--often with peanut butter rolled in a tortilla--yum!!!). And I decided that I wasn't going to be hard on myself about eating too much of anything since there was so much I couldn't have.
~Kim
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How could you have chocolate? The semi sweet I have has milkfat listed as an ingredient.
I still don't know if he even tolerates soy lech.
I swear the kid reacts to everything I eat. I can't even take a milk/soy free vitamin. I am seriously afraid that my milk is going to dry up due to my lack of nutrition.
I think this is just God's way of reminding me that I am not to have any more babies.
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Some semi-sweet chocolate chips are ok--I think the ones from Ghiradelli (I always spell that wrong--sorry :)) are ok, and I know the ones at Trader Joes are ok (I dont know where you live--if you have Trader Joes?)
You can still eat meat and chicken right? And tortillas--lots of non-spicy mexican food? Or casseroles? I know it gets hard because you pretty much have to make everything from scratch in order to avoid soy and dairy. I eventually got kind of used to it and actually still cook that way a lot. I feel like its healthier than all the prepackaged stuff, although those are so much more convienent.
~Kim
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Yes we have 3 Trader Joes.. I will check it out. Thanks for the tip!
Avoiding milk/soy isn't actually hard for me at home.. it is all of the other stuff that is getting me down. Half the time I don't even know what it is he is reacting to. Plus my husband works alot and he likes to go out to eat... it is kind of his way of relaxing. Obviously I can't really go out so this is really disrupting our family life. I know that seems like a small thing, but it is really getting me down.
Today I am feeling really guilty because I ate some salad with a few spects of cheese on it on Friday (I was at a playdate and the salad I brought accidentally got mixed in with the other so it was either that or not eat anything) ... today Palmer has a diaper rash so bad it is bleeding and he hasn't slept all day. He is a totally different baby than he was yesterday and it is all my fault.
I hope he starts to be able to tolerate a few more foods soon.
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Going out to eat was difficult, but I managed to find some places I could go--Mexican food was often a good thing--I could ask for no cheese or sour cream and most of the other was ok. Or getting salads, although I had to watch carefully what was on it--meats and potato type meals too, although you can't usually do mashed potatoes. And I guess the no garlic thing would make a lot of stuff tricky. We really don't eat out all that much, so that wasn't quite such a problem for me.
I'm so sorry that Palmer is so sensitive--that is rough. I had a hard time convincing some people that it really was an issue--they would try to make stuff that they thought was ok, but for example, my MIL would give me things that "only have a tiny bit of dairy"--if it was at the end of the ingredient list on the package, she couldn't imagine that it would matter. And then Savannah would have a rash the next day--amazing how little it took for her to react.
~Kim
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I was so depressed when I had these issues with dd. Just hang in there! She started improving a lot around 6-7 months. We started giving her soy around 10 months and by a year she could do yogurt and cheese (still no whole milk, I think because of the lactose). So, things go a lot, lot better!
I ate a lot of sweet potatoes, cheerios with rice milk, and rice cakes with peanut butter. Look in the kosher section at your supermarket. There were all kinds of good things there that I could eat. Graham crackers were ok. The rotisserie chickens at Whole Foods were ok (although expensive), but not the ones at the regular grocery store. Plus they had these awesome vegan chocolate chip cookies that were milk and soy free. I ate so many of those!!! Elizabeth was ok if I ate nuts, so a lot of my protein came from walnuts and almonds.
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Dark chocolate is a good option too. Newman's Own makes dark chocolate bars and orange dark chocolate bars that are so yummy! Rice Dream "ice cream" is good with a little Hershey's syrup and a banana mixed in. :-[ I ate a ton of Rice Dream when nursing Max. :-[
KWYM about the eating out thing. It does change your life. In one way, I'm glad for us because we got more frugal as far as not eating out so often. (lost more weight) I also found my places that I could eat out, things that were safe.
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Thanks ladies. I had a bad weekend and started feeling sorry for myself. I know I should be happy and thankful that Palmer is a healthy little guy.
Thanks for reminding me that it gets better.. I just have to be patient. :-*
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Another idea: Fry up some tortillas with olive oil, smush up some avocado (I put Lawry's seasoning salt). It's a yummy lunch.
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Yum! I love avocado! That sounds like a good lunch even without diet restrictions ;)
~Kim
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I LOVE avocado! I eat one daily!!! Maybe that is why I have quit losing weight. LOL.
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Hi all - I'm a newcomer to the BW site but have been dealing with MFPI (aka multiple food protein intolerance) since my dd was 3 wks old. She was exclusively bf from birth but started vomitting daily (was told this was normal) and then developed ezcema on her face and scalp (i assumed normal as well). At 3 wks, I found blood in her stool and took her to A&E - was told by attending ped that this too was "normal" - yeah right! He sent us home and told us to come back if we found more than a teaspoon of blood in her nappy. As she was putting on weight and otherwise appeared healthy he told us to come back in a week for follow-up. We did, and eventhough there was still blood in her stool, he sent us away with the same warning to return only if there was a significant amt of blood. That same night, there was (in my panicky new mummy state) significantly more blood so at 2am we drove back down to A&E. Fortunately, a different ped was on call and she told us that she could be suffering from allergic colitis. This came as quite a suprise as neither of us have any allergies to speak of... The next day I began a dairy/soy free diet. Amazingly the vomiting stopped within 2 days and she hasn't vomited since. The ezcema took about 10 days to start clearing. Unfortunately the blood was still present so after two weeks, on the advice of the dietician I've been working with, I started excluding wheat and egg as well. Needless to say, I've been shedding those pregnancy pounds a lot faster than I'd anticipated! I've perservered with the diet (she's now 12 weeks) but as the flecks of blood continued to appear, the GI recommended Neocate rather than me eliminating any additional foods. The dietician suggested that I do a top-up to ease myself into the switch. Lo and behold, on two bottles of Neocate a day she is now blood free. I don't know how much longer I will continue to bf as I'm craving cheese amongst other things but overall, I haven't found it that hard. As some of you have stated, the biggest challenge is going out to eat and I've pretty much had to give that up as it's too risky/ pain in the arse to do.
When I first started her on Neocate she refused point blank to take it. I knew it was the formula rather than the bottle as I'd been giving her expressed milk in a bottle several times a week from near birth without any issue. I did as Tracy suggested and gave her nothing but bottle - it took us 36 hours before we could safely go back and forth between bottle and breast. Things have been fine for the past four weeks but on Monday she started screaming through her dinner feed and has repeated it last night and again tonight. As a result she goes to bed hungry and then keeps waking up. Last night I caved in and bf only because I was home alone and warn out from the crying. I'm wondering if I'll have to do another bout of nothing but bottle...
Anyhow, just introducing myself and glad to know that there are others in the same boat.
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Hi everyone, I've been doing the mspi diet for about a month now. I tried adding back a few things and always had a huge reaction. We're not big meat eaters so I've been really paranoid that I'm not getting enough protein. Have any of you had problems with that? I've lost all my pregnancy weight then some, which is great but I'm afraid I'm going to lose too much and not have good nutrition for breastfeeding. I guess I just need to eat more peanut butter and stuff like that even though I get sick of it after a while. I've heard yogurt is the first food they can start to tolerate again, then hard cheese. Anyone have any idea why that is? I also wondered when they typically do ok with soy? He seems to be really sensative to that. Thanks for all the advice :)
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I forgot, I had one more question. Has anyone had any success with goat's milk or cheese? I'm pretty sure my lo is intolerant not allergic so I wondered if he might do ok with that since I've ready it's supposed to be easier to digest. thanks
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Welcome to Hayleysmom!
1sttime - The milk proteins are diferent in yogurt and also the bacteria helps to digest it. Beans are a great source of protein, and so are grains and vegetable in combinations. Do you like cooking, can you make soups? Bean burritos? Beans & rice combinations? Eggs? Turkey bacon? Nuts are also a good source if you're not allergic, you can make your own granola bars packed with almonds and peanuts. Here is your chance to experiment a little with new foods and flavors. You could try checking out a vegan cookbook from the library to find new recipes, just omit the soy or substitute for chicken or turkey when applicable.
Tips for adding fat to your diet include adding omega3's. You can add flax seed (found in the refrigerated aisle at the health food store) to pancakes, homemade breads, oatmeal, muffins, etc. Try to keep your fats "healthier" fats, for your long term health. I also like eating dips - avocado, bean, hummus (watch for soy sauce in this one) with organic corn chips.
I still have not tried soy with Max (19 months now) because I think I am intolerant to it too. I would try organic soy when you do - the genetically engineered crap they put as a protein filler in most foods is what hurts me the most. Max tolerated cows milk yogurt around 13ish months old but Grace was 18 months old before she was ok with it.
I tried goats milk and it was pretty icky, but you may acquire the taste. Try to stay organic. I didn't try goats cheese.
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Hi, I am desperately trying to find out more about milk and soy allergies. My daughter is 6 months now and I am still breastfeeding. I think she is allergic to milk and soy as on the odd occasion that I have given her cows milk formula or soy formula she has been very sick within an hour or two. I also gave her a jar of vegetables with 1% skimmed milk in it and she was very sick 2 hours later. She loved the soy yoghurt I tried her on but within an hour and a half we both needed 2 changes of clothes! What is confusing me is that I seem to be able to eat milk and associated products and she seems to be fine with my breastmilk. Everyone else I have heard about has had to cut milk out of their diet. She is a very contented baby with none of the discomforts I have been reading that other babies suffer with when they are allergic to milk. I would like to be able to use formula occasionaly and in her cereal, as I find expressing a pain. I have purchased some Omneo Comfort which has hydrolysed whey in it, but haven't plucked up courage to try it yet. Has anyone else out there been in the same situation, where there milk is fine for baby even although they have milk in their diet.
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Hi Moms,
I'm new to the site and have a one week, one day old baby. His big brother (now 2 1/2 and eats just fine) had MPSI and we put him on Nutramigen since I was not tough enough to handle the diet. I remember him as being very fussy from day one (He is VERY Spirited!!!) and he showed his MPSI through severe constipation.
New baby boy had a rough day today (has eaten and eliminated just fine until now) and I am fearful that we are returning to the same path. When did MPSI manifest itself in your babies? Was it an at-birth thing or something that came up over the first few weeks? Just want to try to catch this and try to act asap...and TRY to follow the diet, but all things dairy are my weakness!
Thanks so much.
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I missed the pp, but you can put water in the cereal, with a little bananas or applesauce if that is too bland. Doesn't need to be mixed with milk.
With my kids, the intolerances showed up around the 3 week mark for sure. I think the first week or so they just sleep and eat and seem pretty content.
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Hayley was diagnosed with MSPI at 4 weeks - however, vomitting began within a few days of her being born, the eczema presented at around 2 weeks and blood in the stool was at 3 weeks.
hope that helps!
s.
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Just curious--does anyone know what the chances are of having a second with MSPI? I know that Stacey has two, but is that normal--once one kid has it, most probably will, or is it not hereditary? I know I'll have to wait until #2 comes, but just trying to prep myself if it will probably be the same.
~Kim
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I do think it's quite possible that your second child might be MSPI (sorry) - allergies are often hereditary. I do know people who have avoided milk and soy and other family allergens in their third trimester. Not sure it's proven to help - but it certainly can't hurt!
As for the earlier question about intolerances taking time to show up - YES. At first the babies are mainly sleeping and not eating all that much. But after a few weeks of the milk proteins building up in their systems, BAM. That's what happened with us - I was unable to BF - my supply NEVER came in (not even with domperidone) and we thought DD was fine at first on Carnation GS. Boy were we wrong... And it's funny - I swear she was that way in the womb. I drank a lot of milk while pregnant and it ALWAYS made her kick extra hard. Odd.
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I just wanted to share my story. My daughter is 10 months old and has MSPI. We have come a LONG way. For the first two weeks she didn't show any signs of trouble but like the previous poster said, she spent a lot of time sleeping etc. Then she stopped having bowel movements. We ended up in sick kids hospital for a week and had to irrigate her for a few months (didn't know the cause at the time). While at the hospital (she was 3 weeks) she started to become very irritable. After eating she showed signs of silent acid reflux (didn't know that at the time). I even suggested to the doctors that it could be something in my milk and they we so "sure" that wasn't it. They kept saying "breastmilk is the best blah blah blah". When I look back now I can't believe I knew more than the actual doctors!!!! It really irritates me. At home she continued to show reflux signs and that is when I did lots of research and decided that she had acid reflux myself! Then I researched what could be causing it. I started to experiment with my diet and her pooping problem would come and go so I finally decided that her pooping problem was related to the acid reflux. I had a hunch that it was something in my diet after researching. I finally got in to a ped. who agreed with me right away and put her on Zantac. He told me to eliminate dairy/soy from my diet and low and behold she gradually started to poop again! Of course I had to really eliminate dairy/soy though. I had been trying this before seeing the ped. but once I talked to him I realized that she was sensitive to even the smallest trace. With my diet change and Zantac she became a totally different baby. It was a long, hard 4 months to diagnose her problem because her symptoms were not typical. She didn't spit up for one thing and "silent" reflux seemed unknown to the doctors. Plus she reacted to the dairy/soy by not being able to eliminate her bowels, which was not typical. Thank God I found a wonderful ped. at 4 months. For a while I felt horrible for everything Abigail went through in the first few months. It could have been completely avoided if the doctors had tested for this.
Once I started my non-dairy/soy diet it was very difficult. I was hardly eating anything. I have learned a lot over the months though and I just wanted to tell you that it does get easier. I finally stopped craving the foods I loved. I found other substitutes so that I could enjoy foods I love. For example I love stuffing so my MIL made some for me by using oil instead of butter. I have also had rice krispies with oil instead of butter and they taste exactly the same. I have substituted rice milk for cow's milk in many dishes. The hardest thing for me to learn was...HOW TO COOK :o I used to have so many prepared meals and I had to start from scratch and make my own food a lot of the times. I started to really enjoy it though because I am eating healthier and I am discovering how to make the foods I like by changing the ingredients. One thing that has been hard is keeping weight on. It seems no matter how much I eat, I lose weight. The ped. warned me about this though. At the beginning I felt like I was starving because I thought I couldn't eat anything. I don't ever feel unsatisfied anymore.
I don't know how long Abigail will have this sensitivity. Every now and then some dairy/soy gets in my system (like if we are at someone's house and they aren't as careful about the ingredients) and Abigail still reacts. It takes several days of increased reflux and misery to get out of her system :( I am going back to work in September and I guess I will have to pump a bottle or two a day if she is still sensitive. I really don't know at this point. My ped. said by 1 year 85% of babies outgrow it but I am sceptical since it wasn't until 4 months that I finally got it out of her system permanently.
I live in Canada and there is an Organic name brand for many of the items in the grocery store. A lot of their items are made without dairy /soy. They have pancakes, cake, cookies for example without milk/soy.
I hope I have given some hope to new mom's just starting out with this. I am thankful that I will be more prepared for baby #2 so that we can avoid him/her experiencing the same discomforts in the beginning of life.
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I just posted our story but it went out with all the other posts instead of in here. It is "My daughter's MSPI" It is my first time posting so I messed up. Sorry. I hope it gives some hope to those of you just starting out.
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Awesome post!! Does a moderator know, can we move this on to the MSPI thread? Otherwise, will the poster copy/paste into a new reply on that thread? What a super and positive statement on living with MSPI while breastfeeding. I am no longer nursing a MSPIer, but I have to say I agree with you on the "not craving those foods anymore" and I still eat the MSPI diet almost all the time. Except for cheese pizza. :-[
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That is a great story! I just wanted to reassure you about the outgrowing it--I don't think it depends on when you caught it. I'm not totally sure how long my dd was actually suffering with it before we caught it--for the first couple months she really seemed ok, and she was 5 months before I finally figured it all out (yes, the ped's just don't seem to be as knowledgable about this as I would think they should be). But she did outgrow it by about 14 months, so there is hope!
Good luck!
~Kim
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Pancakes, cakes, cookies without milk/soy... oh please share to a fellow Canadian mom suffering from favorite food withdrawl!
I now have fantasies about pigging out on cheese. My dd had everything you mentioned until she was 6 weeks old and scream cried day and night. The hospital told me I didn't have enough milk and my dd was hungry so to supplement w/ formula! Not knowing better, we did. In week 6 the blood in her bm's showed up and we were back in the hospital, the ped said it was cow's milk in the formula and my diet. We stopped the formula (I hated giving it to her anyways and sometimes lied to dh that I gave it when I didn't ;)), she's now exclusively bf'd, I've eliminated the culprits from my diet, and she's one happy baby! My downfall is now honey roasted peanuts, I polish off a jar in 2 days ;D. Still miss my cheese.
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Did anyone mention that a lot of the kosher food for Passover has no milk or soy? I even found a box mix of chocolate cake!
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Oh I'm so happy my story helped. Thank you for moving it :) It is so nice to chat with other moms going through this.
Thank you kim for the reassurance. I have a question for you. How did you know she outgrew it? Did you keep trying it? Did you nurse? Do I just keep nursing until she outgrows it? Sorry for all the questions.
Fellow Canadian, the brand is Organics by President's Choice in Zehrs. I get pancake mix, cake mix, oatmeal cookies etc. and when those mixes call for milk I use rice milk. I have also found many brands of icing that are dairy/soy free!!! I am so excited because Abigail is almost a year old and I want her to enjoy her 1 year old cake ;D
I finally stopped craving cheese a couple months ago. That was the hardest one for me. Speaking of that, I just read in a book called "Vegetarian Pregnancy" that if babies are oversensitized to dairy while you are pregnant, they could get MSPI.......I basically LIVED on dairy while pregant because I was so sick and I craved it and it made my nausea better. Do you think I caused my daughter to get MSPI?
I have come up with many, many recipes in the last 5 months to satisfy my tastebuds. If you would like some ideas let me know!! Extra Virgin Olive Oil and Rice Milk have been a life saver!
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Thanks mommytoabigail, I'll be going to Zehrs to try this.
I've had to eliminate my Starbucks decaf due to kicking out the milk, haven't tried rice milk, what does it taste like? Anyone find a substitute for cheese? I'm lucky w/ the butter- never was a fan, always prefered to dunk my bread in olive oil and balsamic.
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Rice milk tastes like the water that you cook your rice in. Not great, but you get used to it. The vanilla or chocolate flavors are better. I like Rice Dream the best. No substitute for cheese. I was so desperate that I tried mashed potatoes in my lasagna instead of cheese. Ick!
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mommytoabigail~ Our ped. told me to try adding some dairy to my diet every few months (we tried at 9 months, 12 months, and then again around 14 months). Then, when she was ok with it in my diet (I think I started with yogurt and cheese since that is stuff that is supposed to be easier on them anyway), we tried it in her diet. It was pretty clear when she was ok since before that, she would break out in a rash on her chin within the day.
I did nurse until she outgrew it, but started weaning her onto rice milk a little before that so that she would be used to something else. She wasn't too fond of cow's milk when I first tried that so we would then mix it when rice milk (which we actually still do because her poops get really stinky otherwise--but dr. said that isn't an allergy issue--more likely an inability to completely digest the milk proteins--lots of kids have that).
~Kim
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Rice milk tastes like the water rice is cooked in? Ick, I don't think I'll even try it. My decaf is now black and it's not so bad :)
LOL mashed potatoes in lasagna ;D ;D ;D.
Guestion about dirty diapers...
Since birth, my dd's dirty diapers have been runny (almost soak up into the diaper), since I've kicked out all milk products her diapers are still the same and sometimes they really stink now, have any of you noticed a change in their bm's since eliminating the milk products? My dd goes about 4x a day (used to go more when she was younger and fed on 3 hours, now is on 4hr easy). Could it be my recent fascination with honey roasted peanuts and peanut butter? For that matter, do you think it's safe for me to eat peanuts in such mass quantities? We have no peanut alergies in the family.
I found a pita bread that says "may contain trace milk" that I'm now eating, dd seems fine, no blood in stool.
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Didn't mean to turn you off of rice milk, but I found it shocking at first. Now I drink it by the gallon. The vanilla really is much better, but not for cooking. Bm's didn't get more solid here until we eliminated soy protein. (Soy oil was okay for us.) Now ds goes once every 3 days instead of 6 times a day. Peanuts are fine for us, too. It's just a process of elimination.
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I personally don't find my rice milk tastes bad at all, but I just put it in things and over cereal, I don't drink it straight. My brand is Rice Dream, I like the enriched original because it has as much calcium and vit D as cows milk.
Is your lo taking anything for reflux? (or anything besides your milk)That made my ds's diapers pretty nasty. I don't remember dd's diapers, it has been over 3 years.
I eat a lot of peanut butter too and I'm trying to make the switch from store brands to natural peanut butter without the hydrogenated oils in it. I like Trader Joes snack mixes - dried fruits with cashews or any type of nuts you like. A great way to get some extra protein, as long as you don't overdose! Whole grains will help with the protein too, oatmeal, whole wheat 7-grain bread, etc.
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No, just b milk and also a vit D drop daily.
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Too fast w/ the keys... got kicked off!
Any opinion on the vitamin D drops?
The natural peanut butter is great and have you tried Almond butter? It's fantastic!
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My lactation consultant told me that vit D supplements were unnecessary until the second year, and only if dc was not eating properly and/or not getting any sunshine. I think it's kinda up to you and your pediatrician, but I think that so many peds were quick to jump on the supplement bandwagon to prevent rickets. Here is an intersting article from kellymom on vitamin D:
http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-d.html
You can also find nutrition supplement suggestions for you if you click back a few pages.
I will try the almond butter, thanks!
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Thanks for the link, I need to really take an afternoon and read the other info on Kellymom, there is so much great information there! I have read up on bfing and weight gain for babies a little while ago and around month 2 when I had concerns about bfing, the info there put my mind to ease and gave me the confidence to continue. I think I'll cut back on the vit D now, I'm in Canada and until the recent time change days were grey and dark early but we have sun now :).
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FWIW, I've added more brand names and fast food safe foods to the first page on 'what you can eat' Hope that helps someone out there! Always read labels first, with the new reporting laws we are finding more and more hidden ingredients.
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Thanks for the update, I'm glad I reviewed the entire list again- I forgot about hummus and I love the stuff, surprised about mayonnaise- I had eliminated it (basically eliminated anything with a creamy texture) so it's good to know I can use some and can I just say I love POP TARTS ;D!
My dd had some blood in her diaper today, obviously I had something I shouldn't have though I can't think of what! It may not even be from today or yesterday because the first time it happened it took about a week of eliminating the milk products before the blood stopped. It always freaks me out when this happens (though it doesn't seem to bother dd), have you heard if permanent damage can occur to their intestines or is this something that heals itself?
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I don't know the answer to the permanent damage question. I know that as an adult I've always had a sensitive gut and it sucks. My theory (and I'm so not a doctor) is that the sooner and more complete the abstinence from the offender, the quicker they grow out of it. But that doesn't have any backup except for how it worked with my kids. I know a mommy on these boards who has been so vigilant about her ds's diet and he is still dairy sensitive.
Just watch your flavors on the hummus that it doesn't have cheese in it. I love it too! I was so happy to see the Subway food because I am always wanting to eat out on the weekends with dh.
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I've racked my brain to think of what I've eaten and I've eaten in for the past 2 weeks making all my food and reading all labels. I did have french toast on the weekend, made w/ eggs so I'm going to kick out eggs now. I usually hate eggs which is funny because when I was pregnant I craved eggs.
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Thanks Kim. I have only been using Rice Dream for cooking because I don't like the taste but the vanilla is better. I haven't tried chocolate yet. I haven't given it to her yet to taste. I will wait until she is over a year.
As well as dairy/soy I couldn't have peanuts/nuts (but she didn't get reflux from peanut butter????), citrus fruits/juices and chocolate. All of these caused her to have reflux like dairy/soy. Recently I have tried to introduce these into my diet again and she isn't reacting to them. I have started to drink some orange juice again, and nuts. I haven't tried chocolate (cocoa). I am hoping that we are on the road to "outgrowing" this now. She will be 1 year old on May 26 so I am going to try a little bit of dairy in my diet then like you suggested Kim.
I just wanted to let you know that there is a chocolate substitute that is natural called carob powder if you didn't know. I just learned about it (5 months later!) and it is natural and you can make anything like brownies, cookies, cake and use it instead of cocoa. I haven't tried it yet but I bought some. I have read many good things about it and how it tastes.
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Anyone find a substitute for cheese?
If you like strong cheese then you have Goats cheese, made w/ Goats milk. There is also another type of goat cheese which isn't as strong and tastes nice (dd will eat it) but i can't remember the name. In the next few days, i'll be getting some and i will post it for you. Where are you? I get the cheese at Trader Joes and Henrys market. There is also a Goat's Spread called: which is nice on Crackers (dd will also eat that).
QUESTION for Gracekellysmom. I posted awhile back about DD constent runny nose and ear infections(almost 6mnths solid). I thought Milk Allergy, Ped and allergist said no. I then found this post and in Feb took her off all dairy and soy. It helped immediately, she hasn't had an ear infection in 2 mnths and her nose is dry :). So thank you, thank you! Anyway, i have discovered trace milk is fine (lucky me/her) and also Soy. I decided to test milk based cheese again and didn't notice any difference until today (10days or so) and her poop was green! Now i know she hasn't eaten any green veg or green anything. IS this the sign, cheese is still off the menu?
thanks!
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Thank you Michelle! I never even thought of goat's cheese and I used to love it! I'm Toronto and there happens to be a fab cheese shop near where I live, as soon as dd wakes from her nap we are going there! I'm so excited!
How can you tell if your lo can handle trace amounts of milk products? I've eliminated it all, I'm finally accustomed to rice milk, too afraid to intro any amounts of the real stuff. Held a bridal shower for SIL on weekend and abstained from 3/4's of the food I served that had milk, cheese, cream in it. Wow, talk about testing the willpower.
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You are welcome! I would hate for you to do w/o when you didn't need to. I love a good goat cheese salad - yummmm. You could also eat Feta (sheeps milk).
How can you tell if your lo can handle trace amounts of milk products?
I did a complete elimination of milk and soy from her diet for 2weeks and noticed immediate improvement. I then introduced Soy, again no problem. Week later introduced things like: waffles, crackers, etc all had trace amounts of milk/soy and didn't see any difference in her runny nose (which was our main problem). My LO is much older then yours and eating her own food vs. BF like you are doing so probably not a good comparison.
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I eliminated milk/soy in my diet when my lo's eczema starting being horrible around 4 weeks old. He had other signs, but his skin was my therometer. When his skin was doing so well that is had been weeks since seeing red patches, I gently tried soy- at around 5 month- he failed. Then I tried again around 3 weeks ago- and he hasn't had a problem. I just finished a greek salad iwth Feta cheese. Even has cereal with milk last weekend! He does have allergies/ear infections but those seem unrelated to milk/soy. And he tested negative on his bloodwork for milk/soy. The allergist recommended total avoidance for the first year while nursing, but he isn't the mother!
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OMG, I must have had mommy brain, back when I eliminated cow's milk products I threw out Feta cheese ::). I tossed out all cheese and have never looked back not even thinking that Feta wasn't from cow's milk either! My dd's reaction to cow's milk was blood in her diaper which I guess just freaked me out so much and I was desperate not to have to switch to formula. Boy, I'm going to have fun at the cheese shop when dd wakes up, I'm counting the minutes!
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Wait, can I really eat goat and sheep cheese with a milk protein intolerance?!? That would be so great.
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I think a lot of people still find that it causes problems (the sheep and goat milk), but I guess you could always try.
~Kim
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Let me clarify my earlier post....I believe my LO has outgrown his MSPI...therefore I am eating cheese again! I was never brave enough to try cheese when he was having problems.
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I tried Goat's cheese and she reacted to it as well :( Therefore no cheese for me!!
I am going to try introducing a trace amount when she turns 1 (in one month!!)
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I just finished my dinner... with a huge chunk of feta. Now, from reading the new posts I'm concerned, guess I'll have to wait and see. For those of you going out to get feta- be careful, I just found out that some feta is made with cow's milk, only the Greek feta is not and even then it depends on the mfg so check first.
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Michelle, you could cut it again and try again in a month. Cheese was hard for my dd to tolerate. She was ok with yogurt first. Think of if she's had anything blue or purple in her diet, like a dyed cereal or candy, popsicle, anything like that? Max has funny colored poops when he eats popsicles.
OT, my SIL once told me my nephew had green poop - he ate silly putty!! (for non-US, it's like clay or play-doh) Yuck!
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Thanks Stacy!
We will go back to Goat Cheese and try again. Was i giving wrong info regarding Goat Cheese and Feta (w/ Sheeps Milk) as a safe alternative?
I don't understand what you mean? I am tired tonight.
Think of if she's had anything blue or purple in her diet, like a dyed cereal or candy, popsicle, anything like that?
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I don't think you were giving wrong info, Michelle. Some MSPI babies do very well with goat's cheese (some even on goat's formula). However, many babies still react as they are actually reacting to the animal proteins. But it's always worth a try!
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I don't understand what you mean? I am tired tonight.
Think of if she's had anything blue or purple in her diet, like a dyed cereal or candy, popsicle, anything like that?
Were you directing this one at me? Am I nutz as a second time mom cause I give my kiddos popsicles and other artificially colored foods? ;D Sometimes those artificial colors can leak through to the poop. Didn't you ever eat cereals as a kid that turned your poop blue/green? Just another idea - sometimes Max has funky colored poops and it's this and not his intolerance.
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First Time Mom-How did it go with the Feta? I want to try but I'm scared. Let me know if you get a chance.
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I have to stay away from all cheese :'(. Had feta twice and dd had blood in her poop again :'(. Didn't even try the goat's cheese, just threw away both. In dd's case the blood takes a long time to clear up. This is my dilema- I either make a mistake or try something and she has problems again which takes so long to clear up. I'm giving it another week and if she's not clear I'm going back to the hospital to see if there's possibly something else like the soy milk I have in my Starbucks. It's so depressing that her system can't seem to clear up 100%, at least she's not in any pain over it.
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Hi Gracekellysmum. I found your site last night I was hoping to get some feedback if you had a chance or from any other mums out there.
My daughter is 13 weeks old and we suspect she may be multi protein intolerant. She has been slow to gain weight and her poos come out full of bubbles like shaken champagne.
She has been tested for lactose intolerance which was clear and then was put on Zantac for reflux and at the same time I went on a dairy and soy free diet. This seemed to stop the bubbly poo but the Zantac made her gag terribly so I stopped it. I have continued with the diet (2 weeks now) but her poos are still a bit frothy. Someone suggested this might have been baked beans or nuts or sunflower seeds or even fruit.
My questions are, is the frothy poo a normal sign of MSPI? Is it generally the case that all type of beans cause a reaction or just soy? Do nuts and seeds also cause a reaction generally? Is there a test we can do to see if she is MSPI? I had heard that only actual allergy can be tested for not intolerance.
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Sharlie, I agree that only a true allergy can be tested, however often an intolerance will show up as occult (hidden, not visible) blood in the stool.
The frothy poop you describe sounds like it is something else she is ingesting. Does she get any formula, any water, meds of any kind (gas meds, tylenol)? My ds had very frothy poops after he started on prevacid. Prior to that they were disgusting - looked like someone had blown their nose in his diaper, long strings of brown/green mucus.
Some babies are intolerant to nuts/seeds. Some babies are intolerant to certain kinds of fruit, citrus fruit is the big one (pineapple, oranges, strawberries, etc - my MIL is allergic to citrus). I generally do not believe that babies will be gassy from gassy foods that we eat, although if you have an intolerance to something (lets say onions) then your immune system could produce something into your milk that may make her react.
With such a sensitive baby like this I encourage you to keep nursing!! Do not wean to formula ... it will be much worse than what you have now.
Check into a different reflux med if you think the reflux is still bothering her. There are ones that are administered differently, like prevacid. Zantac will not heal damage of the esophogas, it just changes the balance of acids in the tummy.
An lastly, if she does not seem upset by the poops and doesn't have a rash, then you don't need to be too concerned about the color/consistency at her age. Make sure to delay solids until at least 6 months with her sensitive tummy.
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Sharlie, my dd gets blood in her stool and it also is frothy and sometimes greenish if I ingest milk products (by mistake). When I fully eliminate milk products it does take up to 4 weeks for her system to return to normal (no blood, no froth, no green). This is after the TINIEST amount of milk product. Up until recently she did not take anything other than breast milk (just started solids). So, from my experience, it can take some time for their bm's to go back to normal.
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Hi guys! Long time no talk!!!
Prior to that they were disgusting - looked like someone had blown their nose in his diaper, long strings of brown/green mucus.
Stacey did I read this right? PRIOR to starting the Prevacid the poop looked like this?? So the poops got better after starting the Prevacid? Sometimes Palmer's poops are exactly like that and I have always assumed it is something I am eating or the Prevacid.
Palmer is still very sensitive to milk... I can't have regular bread or even a speck of dairy or he freaks out for a day (his behavior is his main symptom). I can have a little soy, but if I over do it he gets very crabby.
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The MSPI poops were full of mucus. We never had visual blood, just mucus. He went on Prevacid when I went soy free, and then the poops were very different, kind of frothy and sometimes like a thick paste or very wet clay. They weren't the typical breastfeeding poops, yellow and seedy.
Sorry he's still so sensitive! I'm so glad you're nursing him, it is a sacrifice, but it is so short. My kids seem so grown up way too fast. Today I ate milk on my cereal, whatever I wanted at lunch. Max has been weaned for almost 6 months. (Ps, yep I moved to Portland!)
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Well he is getting better... so I can't complain. And he is such a happy little guy as long as I stay away from milk. No biggie I guess. I do miss eating out though.
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Thanks for the reply, helpful I think. This whole thing is quite confusing. Before I stopped dairy and soy my daughters poos were bubbly, mucous and smelt terrible. The smell has gone since I stopped dairy/soy, they are not always mucous now and it's not as much and now only sometimes bubbly. I think stopping dairy/soy has helped but not as dramatically as I had hoped so I'm not sure if it's something else as well. It's hard to pinpoint. She does not seem to be in a lot of pain but I notice she is much more unsettled feeding at the same time as her poos have mucous and bubbles. I'm sure it's not supposed to look like that and even though she's not in pain I'm worried that it might be causing her some kind of longer term problem. Any thoughts or advice would be great.
Sharlie
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Sharlie again, Forgot to ask. With the soy protein intolerance is there generally a problem with all beans?
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I'm pretty sure my LO has MSPI, but I'm not completely sure. I don't think he is unusually gassy (most babies have gas right?) but he vomits after every feed, sometimes projectile, sometimes just spit up. so the pediatrician said to cut out dairy. I haven't been able to get a full week without it yet, i try and try but i can't cut it out completely. I get frustrated when I cut it out for 3 days and see no difference, so I start back up on dairy again. But then I do notice if I have a hefty dairy day his vomits are a lot worse. it's sad to say that cutting out dairy has been one of the hardest things i have ever had to do!!! Does it sound like he is MSPI or something else?
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The bean question, sorry! I haven't seen very many (if any) babies who were soy intolerant that their moms also had to cut other types of beans. I think I read that somewhere when I was first starting off on no-soy, but found that Max didn't have problems with beans, and they are a great source of protein.
To MGardner, I would really try to commit to one week of absolutely no dairy. Just meal plan for the week, and tell yourself it is just for this week. Re-evaluate at the end of the week and see if the spitting up is better. I can say that Max didn't spit up hardly at all when I went no soy, but he was also on meds for reflux. You could be dealing with a little bit of that too. Dairy and/or soy can really aggravate some babies reflux. And yep, all babies have gas.
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MGardner - definitely be resilient and ditch the dairy (and soya if you can manage it). DD stopped vomiting within a week when I cut it out completely.
For those that have started your LOs on solids how are you able to tell if they are intolerant to something? We've just begun and I've thus-far followed the dietician's advice of introducing a new food no sooner than 3 days. We've done the low allergen fruits and veggies - carrot, swede, parsnip, sweet potato, rice, apple and pear. DDs poop firmed up a fair amount and she went from one BM every two days to 2 BMs per day - the consistency, colour, etc was pretty constant. Then I gave her butternut squash and the next day she had a really foul-smelling BM with what looked like stringy strands of mozzerella (for lack of a better description) in it. Hasn't happened since so I don't know if I should take it as a sign of intolerance to the squash or is that just "normal"?
Would appreciate anyone else's experience and what to look for if there is an intolerance.
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I would consider the consistency and note if you think it is strings of squash or strings of mucus. The former, chalk it up to eating solids (wait until you see the little raisins that come out whole, lol), the latter, well maybe hold off on the squash and try again in a few months. Also consider preparation, unless you made it yourself you know it doesn't have butter on it.
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Thanks Gracekellysmom
Because of the MSPI I'm making all her food myself - so far it's just been steamed veggies and fruit with nothing added other than the occasional bit of pure organic baby rice. I did consider that it could be strands of squash but it's pretty finely pureed when I serve it to her - can it reform into strands? ;D It was really odd as it didn't look mucousy (it really did look like mozzarella - consistency and colour wise!)
FIgure that I'll hold off for a couple days until BMs return to normal and then try the squash again to see if the same thing happens. What is the general rule of thumb for how long you should wait to challenge them on a food after they've shown a possible reaction?
Thanks for the help!
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I think it depends on the type of reaction for reintroducing. In your case, I completely agree with trying it again after the bms clear up. That seems like a pretty mild reaction, and it's good you are sensitive to it! If it happens again, maybe take the squash off the list for a couple of months.
Now, if a child had a hive-type rash, or even a rash on the face, I would not give the food again for at least 6 months and definately discuss it with their doctor.
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Turns out that it was just the beginning of a stomach bug - it turned into diarrhea at the weekend and she started vomitting as well. :(
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Poor dear! I hope she's feeling better! I hate changing bed sheets covered in vomit!
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My dd has a milk protein allergy, she's bf and I have eliminated ALL milk products from my diet as she gets blood in her stool. Today, we introduced organic oatmeal cereal and she broke out into a heavy rash within 4 hours. She can eat barley and rice cereal and we have tried 4 veggies and banana that she is fine with so far. With 2 allergies already I'm nervous about more, should I at this point go to an allergist to get her tested? I'd like to avoid other reactions if possible. My doctor is useless (said the oatmeal reaction could have been a heat rash today and to try it again in one week but dd was not in the heat!). Also, being bf, should I now eliminate food with oatmeal in it?
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Hi First Time Mom,
In the UK they don't recommend allergy testing before the age of 18 months as they don't think the results are particularly accurate - not sure if it's any different where you are... Although she seems to tolerate the gluten in barley, that could be what she's reacting to in the oats (which are quite glutenous). I'd stick with the low allergen cereals like rice and buckwheat and continue with introducing low allergen fruits and veggies. Apples, pears, banana, sweet potato, avocado, papaya, carrot, swede, squash, parsnip etc. There are a wide range of things she can try. My dietician recommends introducing a new food no sooner than every 3 days.
I don't think you need to avoid the oatmeal in your diet (presumably her symptoms cleared after you eliminated dairy?) but I'd probably wait a few months before trialing the oatmeal again.
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Consider if there is anything else that could have caused the rash. Has she had immunizations in the last 2 weeks? Has she been at grandma's house (they are notorious for slipping babies ice cream! ::) :o ) Is the organic oatmeal truly just oatmeal? (I'm sure you read the label, but it's happened before)
Beyond that, it will need to be your own comfort level as far as when you choose to introduce again. Haleysmom had wonderful suggestions. I would not eliminate oatmeal in my own diet unless you find that she reacts to that as well. Oatmeal is a more rare allergy.
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I definitely agree to investigate other possible causes of the rash first, but while not as common as some allergies, I know many babies who had oatmeal reactions. In fact, my allergist/dietician doesn't recommend trying oatmeal before 9 months at the earliest, sometimes 12.
Allergy testing at your DD's age will not be reliable, unfortunately - it's really just trial and error at this point. I'd keep trialing new foods, giving each new food for 5 days in increasing amounts to test for reactions. I'd test oatmeal again at 9 months if I were you. Often foods that babies react to one day are fine a few weeks or months later - my DD reacted at first to apples at 6 months but at 10 months has them a few times a week with no problem.
Agree also that you don't need to eliminate oatmeal in your own diet unless you find she is reacting to that.
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I have a quick question ~ my son's poops have gone back to "yellow" & then back to green (I think it may have been either wheat or mushrooms/garlic in chicken), then back to yellowish (with like an orange shade) ~ I have not eaten any wheat in 2 days trying to get it to clear up again. But today, his poop is orange-yellowish again & just now yellow but watery (no real substance to it) & he's got gas & is fussy. The only thing that I can think of is either a burger (bunless) that I had yesterday OR a Hummel's hot dog... based on the color ~ I am thinking the hot dog. Anyone know if that could be causing so much gas & orang-ish mucousy poops & watery poops??? (The ingred. say 100% beef franks ~ does not say anything about any milk/soy products). Are they really not safe to eat??? (His poops use to be mucousy but green, now they are yellow but muscousy.... I hope someone can give me some info as I am feeling horrible & clueless.... Also, I read somewhere that when a baby is teething it can cause mucous in poops (something to do with the saliva) ~ anyone know if this has any truth in it? TIA, Beth
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Well, I've read (and experienced twice) that when a baby is teething they can have runny or watery stools, and a bit of a bright red diaper rash. (Change poopy diapers asap when teething, not that we don't always, of course) Teething causes some babies to be extremely fussy. My sister's baby has been fussy lately and she is teething, come to find out she had an ear infection too, and hasn't had a cold in her life yet. So keep that in mind.
I wouldn't feel too bad, this whole mothering thing is a learning process and perfection is never reached!
When something says 100% beef, I think what it means is just that. 100% beef, no fillers (like corn or soy). There is a pretty good chance it has spices and flavorings. Are you in the US? Because that is supposed to be disclosed on the label now. You could try HebrewNational kosher beef hotdogs, they will at least be milk free but I'm not 100% sure on the wheat. Hamburgers are usually safe, just check to see whatever spices are used.
As for color, so many things can change the color of the poop based on 1) what you've eaten and 2) the foremilk/hindmilk balance. So green poops are technically "ok" if baby is happy, but a green poop usually means a little more foremilk than hindmilk. Or it could also be from your vitamins, kind of like how vitamins change the color of our urine bright yellow/green, they can change your babies poops too. Weird, huh? So the consistency is more important than color (ranging from yellow to orange to brown and sometimes green) and mucus will be your sign of irritation. Have you tried eliminating soy yet? Milk and soy will be your top offenders, followed by wheat, corn, nuts, fish, and citrus. The foreign proteins in milk and soy are usually what does it.
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Thanks Stacy ~ greatly appreciate the information... yes, I have been off of soy for about 2-3 weeks now ~ I did the no soy/milk/wheat/citrus/tomato thing, and his poops went back to looking healthier & yellow. Last week his ped. said I can have wheat again, and I have had a bun/bread & pasta one night & the next day he was getting fussy & his poops were turning green & a little smelly, so I have stopped eating wheat just in case & will try again when he is back to yellow & healthy :) But I am not sure if it is diet related (him being fussy) ~ he's almost 5 months, sticks everything in his mouth & his fussiness doesn't last all day & he can be easily "distracted" ~ that is the tough thing ~ I am not sure what is his tummy hurting/my food related & what is teething! Ugh! So confusing & frustrating... I am afraid to eat anything b/c I don't want him to be in pain, but I am starting to feel miserable & hungry all the time (and tired of chicken) :) But he is so worth it! As for the orange poop, thank you for your input. We are also thinking that it may be Gripe Water ~ the one we have is like a dark yellow/orange color & maybe that is doing it? (Although it has never done it before, but who knows)... Does anyone know how long to wait before trying food again? And (on average) how long before I will see if Matthew has a reaction to it? (Like, if I eat wheat ~ how long before I realize that he can't tolerate it?) Thanks!!!!
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yep, I bet it is the gripe water. or any other pain reliever you give can change the color/consistency. I found with my kids, their poops started getting a little more like wet clay towards six months, even before solids were added.
Most offenders will show within 72 hrs although if he was pretty healed up it could be a month before blood would show again. I typically recommend trying the potential offender a week later and see if it happens again. Then I would wait 3 months before trying again. Do you have the ingredients list for your bread? I wonder if it was eggs.
Beef is a potential offender too, for some kids that are very intolerant. Have you tried beans for protein? Beans and rice options mix it up a bit. Many health food stores sell wheat free products for gluten intolerant or people with celiacs.
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Stacy~ thank you! As for beans~ I tried adding them into my salads & then I read that kids that cannot tolerate soy may not be able to tolerate other beans so I stopped (and stopped eating the hummus with garlic I bought since he got fussy the next day ~ but I also ate wheat that day & mushrooms, so who knows what exactly it was). As for the ingredients: 1 bread is from Trader Joe's & it is "Honey Bran Country Bread" & the list is: Wheat flour, Water, Wheat Bran, Cracked Wheat, Potato Flour, Canola Oil, Honey, Molasses, Wheat Gluten, Sugar, Salt, Yeast, Cultured Wheat Starch, (for added freshness), Soy lecithin (which I was told that this & soybean oil were okay as they do not have the protein that babies cannot tolerate, is that right?), Barley flour, enzyme, ascorbic acid. May contain sesame seeds. And the tortilla wraps that I have are: Flour Tortilla with whole wheat (also from Trader Joe's): Enriched unbleached flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (Vitamin B2), folic acid), water, whole wheat flour, sunflower oil, salt, baking powder (sodium acid pyrophosphate, sodium bicarbonate, monocalcium phosphate, cornstarch), citric acid. So, I don't see any eggs or anything else (outside of the wheat) that it could be. But, like I said, it could have been something else ~ like the hummus with garlic, or mushroom that were on my chicken, or maybe even the Hormel's turkey (they have a new turkey that is with no presv. & the ingredients are fairly simple, so I *think* it is safe). And maybe it was because I ate bread twice that day & then had pasta for dinner? Maybe I'll try some bread today & see what happens! As for the nature food store ~ thank you, I have been trying to eat millet bread & rice bread ~ but I truly cannot get used to either (but I keep trying). Thanks for the tip about the poop~ that helps! His poops haven't truly gone back to the scrambled egg consistency ~ more like a clay-ish look ~ so that helps ~ thnak you... and sometimes there are pieces of green mucous still in there.
Also, I have one more question. You said something about the appearance of blood taking longer ~ with my son he has only had a little bit of blood (oinkish) 2x's ~ since about birth his only symptoms were fussiness (we think), green muscousy poops taht are foul in smell (this is why his ped. wasn't overly concerned, I guess). The 2nd time he had blood is when I did the ellimination diet & no blood since. So, when I say he "reacts" I mean he gets gassy, fussy (which, again, may be due to teething), and has gassy poops that are slightly green & smell "off" & have mucous. So, could that mean that his intolerance isn't "that bad?" If there isn't blood present (but those 2 times) does that mean that he isn't that "hyper sensitive" to it? (I know his ped. did test on his stool ~ & said they came back negative ~ but I am not 100% certain what he tested for as I know he said that they wanted to make sure it wasn't an infection, but I am assuming that he tested for blood since he did suspect that it could have been the MSPI) ~ I'll talk to him more about it at his next check up. Anyway, thank you so much for all of your help! This site is making me feel better about this & maybe I can tough it out (now that I am getting some answers & concrete info). Thank you!
Beth
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Beth, Isn't this site great? I has been a sanity check for me as mine are growing up. I had a super breastfeeding support group that helped with the MSPI issues. With that kind of support, I hope you feel like this is totally do-able. I nursed my first through 12 months when she self-weaned, and my second through 16 months when I weaned him. Never would have been possible without all that support.
Your bread and tortillas look ok to me as far as MSPI ingredients. The oil is usually ok. I might be tempted to try a very basic bread for next time (fewer ingredients or something like a sourdough), or even try making your own (not bad if you have a stand mixer) with just flour, yeast, water, salt, honey. I agree on the wheat-free breads! But if that is all you have to eat, then they start tasting ok, kinda like Rice Dream or dark chocolate.
I am guessing that his intolerance isn't that bad. I would probably go off the mucus poops (forget the color, especially as you start solids in a month or two) and maybe the smell (although any meds given will cause a foul odor). Since he is teething, it is hard to say if his fussiness is that or his tummy. Was he ever diagnosed with reflux?
Since you are nursing, I will ask a nursing question too. In regards to the green poops, do you think he has them more often late morning/early afternoon? When he nurses, is he getting pretty "I'm done already!" after a few minutes? Does he eat on EASY or more often?
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Stacy ~ thanks again! And yes, I def. agree that with support things get easier! Unfortunately this site is my primary support ~ as I do not have any friends that have bf successfully, let alone had issues with MSPI (plus, most pf my friends are still single) & there was a lactation facility that we have been to ~ but they weren't much help with the MSPI & what to eat thing ~ & she continues to think it is just a foremilk/hindmilk thing ~ which I don't think that is it (maybe partially, but not all of it).
As for nursing, Matthew is basically fed "whenever" ~ he eats every 2.5 hours or so ~ mainly because I wanted to make him feel better with all that tummy pain all those months. As for his green poops ~ up until I gave up dairy/soy ~ he had green poops ALL day, everyday ~ they were his "normal" color since 3 weeks of age ~ his ped. & the lact. cons. kept telling me not to worry about it. The recent bout of green poops has been (I think) mid-day. A couple of mornings he has woken up with a poopy diaper & when I check it has been partially green (but, I know this may sound silly, but I think the poop turns from yellow to green after a few hours. Could it be? One night I changed his diaper in the middle of the night & it was yellow, and when I went to throw it out in the morning I noticed that it was green). He has been getting up 2x's per night to eat over the last couple of weeks ~ after sleeping through the night since he was 2.5 months old. When he nurses ~ nope, he is never done ~ my son would nurse ALL DAY if I let him! (LOL) He isn't the typical baby that will pull off when he is "finished" ~ he'll sit there & "graze" ~ I have to pull him off most of the time, although lately he has been pulling off once in a while on his own. I know that the lac. consultant said that she thinks that I have a LARGE milk supply (he use to choke on my milk & actually did it again last night for the 1st time in months). She had me drinking sage tea to get it "under control" ~ which I did. I use to wake up engorged in the am (when he was sleeping through the night) & be able to pump 5-7 oz. while he ate off the other breast. But he doesn't "choke" anymore, since he wakes up a couple of times in the middle of the night I don't wake up engorged anymore, & I have been keeping him on one breast until it feels empty/or he fusses & pulls off. Most of the time, one breast will satisfy him & then the next feeding I start with that same breast & offer the next when it is empty. (And his green poops still occurred during all of this).
As for reflux ~ no! His doctor didn't even discuss it with us. When we called him about his green stools he basically said that it didn't matter what color the poop was in a bf baby b/c it varies due to mom's diet ~ but then put me on the ellimination diet when blood showed up (1 of 2 times). But, I thought reflux had to do with vomiting, spitting up, etc.? Matthew doesn't have any of those symptoms ~ he spit up for maybe a 2 week period, but it wasn't frequent. Are there other symptoms? Do the 2 go together hand in hand? And I think you are right, we are going based on mucous & smell ~ as today his poop was green, but smelled that "sweet" smell of healthy poop ~ so, I figure that was my salad from yesterday :) (which makes me think that whatever I eat will go through him within 24 hours, just like the salad).
Stacy ~ thanks again! I can't even express to you & everyone else on here that have helped how much it means to me. I have thought several times of just putting him on formula b/c this is so difficult (not just b/.c of the diet, but being worried that if I eat something "wrong" he will be in pain), but the more & more I hang around here the more I realize that it is best for him for me to keep going!!! (At least for now)....
Thanks again!
Beth
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Well I tell ya what, why not just go with the, "one more week/month" attitude, and you will be amazed at how quickly the next six months go! ;) (As a former breastfeeding moderator, I of course encourage breastfeeding and do everything I can to help mommies out.)
It sounds like your lactation consultant was really worth her stuff, the advice you got re: foremilk imbalance was spot on. And it sounds like you have that part under control! You can do breast compressions (squeeze your breast gently from chest to nipple while he is nursing) to get a little more of the fatty milk out. My ds ate every 2-3 hours until he was about 7-8 months old when he woke up one day and decided every 4 hrs was plenty. :P So yours sounds completely normal, including the getting up once or twice a night to eat. They often have an odd growth spurt in the fifth month right before they sit up independently.
If your baby has reflux, you usually know it. Sometimes MSPI and reflux go hand in hand, a theory is that whatever bothers their intestine bothers their stomach too. Some refluxers are "silent" in that they don't spit up but are obviously in a lot of pain. So I would wager that your ds doesn't have this.
I LOL about the salad comment! I think 24-36 hrs is probably about right. The one thing I love about the MSPI "diet" is that even after going off it, I still eat pretty healthy and don't have the stomach for a lot of the junk I ate before. I am still soy free, I realized I am intolerant during our whole process.
Any time you have a question, you can post it here or in the nursing forum, pm me or a moderator. When our babies were tiny, someone helped and encouraged us, I like to think I'm "passing it on". I love to hear breastfeeding success stories like yours! Way to go!
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Thanks Stacy & I have a few more questions ~ this is a little different, but I need some help!!! I am very torn over this & very emotional (I can see the pluses & minuses of both sides), I posted this on the BF board, too. I know all of the WONDERFUL benefits of BF a baby ~ I never thought I would be THIS successful at it. My son is 5 months old today, and I am wondering what the difference (advantage) would be to continue bf him past 6 months (my new goal is 6 months). Because of this MSPI stuff I am not sure if I am doing him the BEST service by continuing to BF since his poops are still coming up mucousy & green (or green with yellow). I won't lie & say that NONE of this is for me, because some would be ~ but not the big portion of it. This diet is getting to me on some days & although it is worth it for my son, it is hard!!!! I have not been to eat out in a month (which is fine, for the most part). I miss cheese & berries ALOT (especially now that it is strawberry season). BUT more importantly I am worried about my son. His bowels have yet to fully, 100% go back to the seedy yellow. They have returned (most times) to that sweet smelling odor (before they were foul smelling), but most of the time there is still mucous in them (kind of like a booger ~ sorry, I know it is WAY too much info) & at times they are green (or green mixed with yellow). Sometimes I think it is because of lettuce that I may have had, and sometimes I wonder if something else is bothering him. I have a limited amount of things that I eat b/c I am worried about affecting him ~ & ther are times that he gets gassy ~ so now I am afraind to eat mushrooms or beans b/c he had BAD gas & green stools the next day (and was very fussy). Anyway, so I am wondering if maybe after 6 months he wouldn't be better off on formula (I think his ped suggested Alimentum if we were to switch). (I know breastmilk is best ~ but in my situation ~ is it really? I get so upset when he has tummy problems). So, I was wondering what are the added advantages to bf past the 6 month mark? Or is the BIGGEST & BEST boost happen upto 6 months?
Thanks for reading this & any info would be appreciated ~ I am so torn!!!
Beth
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Hi Beata3, hope you don't mind if I jump in!
My dd cannot handle any amounts of milk product- she gets lots of blood in her stool and often her stool is green and sometimes frothy. I have had to totally change my diet and cheese was my favorite food! I hardly eat out as I worry about butter and milk seems to be hidden in everything. My dd is now 7 months and I am still bfing. They are only babies once so, in the long run, it is so worth changing our diet for them- you can only bf your baby now whereas you can stuff your face with cheese (and whatever you happen to miss) for years to come! The hypo-allergenic formula is very expensive and from what I hear stinks, not to mention some los won't take it.
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Beth,
I think you raise some very valid points and have said honestly what some moms are afraid to. big {hugs} to you hon as you try to figure out what works best for your family.
For me, it was #1 that I loved breastfeeding. #2 the cost of potential formula feeding. We were on WIC for part of ds' early months, dh was in grad school. I asked about options for formula, and they provided no milk/soy-free formulas. I was lucky to have a super supportive dh and family members, who endured the milk-free thing with me. I knew if I could make it to 11-12 months, that I could supplement with enriched rice milk instead of formula. Ds to my surprise, outgrew his milk intolerance at 12 months old anyway. Dd outgrew hers at about 17-18 months old. I celebrated with pizza, and then fell sick on the toilet because my body wasn't used to it! ::)
With as sensitive as your son is, there is probably no way he would ever tolerate Alimentum or Nutramigen. (If you could even get him to take them at this point) I would guess that either of those (they are NOT milk/soy-free, just "pre-digested" ummm pre-digested by whom?) would actually make him worse. If you do end up going to formula, your ped will need to prescribe something like Neocate, which is corn-based, I believe, and quite expensive. (corn is another huge allergy)
I am going to strongly suggest that you keep your 6 month goal, and really strive for 12 months. The longer you go, the better off he will be, and the less likely his allergy/intolerance will continue through childhood and perhaps adulthood. Is 6 more months worth that? To see him sit at his 2nd birthday and be able to have a spoon of ice cream with his birthday cake? Your odds are better with that if you can keep nursing milk-free than if you switch to formula.
Right now, LLL and WHO are both suggesting that babies be nursed up to at least 12 months. Any pediatrician that is not supportive of that, well, I'd probably switch to a new doctor. Where are you located? Can I find you a local support nursing support group? I know my old support group has a MSPI email list that we can get you subscribed to if you'd like. Or can we help you find out-to-eat choices that make this easier for you? Or day-to-day choices (maybe some new recipes?) that will help? I am happy to help in any way I can.
I always tell moms that breastfeeding gets a ton easier between 8-10 months, usually around 9 months old. They start eating 3 meals per day, only nursing 3-4 times (one being first morning and one being before bed, so it's quite infrequent)
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That said.
I was a moderator on the breastfeeding board for a long time. I knew by your first post that you're having a tough time at this. Breastfeeding is a commitment. And having an MSPI baby wasn't something we signed up for. It changes everything from how we cook to how we socialize, to how we feel about food. It is emotional! Completely weaning to formula won't make things that much easier, it will be a different kind of challenge. And weaning is HARD, very hard for some babies and moms, so I know you know it's not the easy road. Dreaming about a new diet is tempting. Being a mom is self-giving, and on top of it you've had to give up chocolate too.
So if you decide to try weaning to formula, know that I will support you through that and help you with that too. Sit down, take a few weeks to think about it, and know that you have time to make a decision. Live with it for a week or so. {hugs}
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First Time Mom ~ hi & thank you! As for the diet ~ I agree with you & it is do-able (hard, but it can be done). My main point is my Matthew ~ I can deal with not eating cheese, but it is hard to watch your 5 month old baby cry with gas pain & be so uncomfortable pain to go #2 ~ like I said, if I were to switch ~ part of it would benefit me ~ but that would not be the reason that I would switch... I would do anything for my son.
Stacy ~ thank you! Your post actually made me cry (in a good way, but I am an emotional mess these days anyway)! I am WITHOUT A DOUBT going to reach the 6 month mark (as long as no other major obstacles arise) & if things continue to improve with him then I would stay the course for the full 12 months. I would do anything to make him 100% healthy (which is why I keep wondering "what if..."). Trust me, I never thought that I would be as committed to BF as I have become ~ while pregnant, I told my hubby that if I can, I can, if not, then that will be okay as well ~ but we both wanted it to work b/c he's got eczema & his mother has asthma.... and it did ~ it was so hard ~ the hospital gave me such "great" advice that I came home with cracked, VERY painful, bleeding nipples ~ but I stuck with it. I had a c-section so I was in pain from that as well (I chose not to take the percoset that they prescribed since I was bf) ~ & then I had some complications with the c-section ~ but I stuck with it b/c I could. So, I just do not want anyone to think that I would stop for the benefit of me & not for my son! B/c if that was the case ~ I would have stopped on Day 4. I just get so nervous that I will make things worse for him in the long run ~ I keep thinking although the "right" smell is back, & there is yellow in the poop ~ but it is still mucous & still some green that WHAT IF I am missing something else that it may be? And then he grows up having those allergies or asthma BECAUSE I continued to breastfeed, you know what I mean? I am so preoccupied with poop it is ridiculous! Your comment about the 2nd b-day party with ice cream is one of the primary reasons that I am so committed to this ~ I keep telling my husband that if I have to eat so little so that he can one day enjoy an ice cream cone & I could see his face light up ~ then it is all SO WORTH IT! & thank you for lettimg me know that the eating habits get "easier" ~ he eats so often right now it is ridiculous & draining on me. Not to mention that he was sleeping through the night, until about a month ago when he started waking up once, then twice, and over the last several days he has been waking up 2-3 times & not being able to be put back down b/c he will SCREAM & CRY! So, for the last few nights I have been up with him for about 2 hours at least 2 times per night... so, that doesn't help my sanity :)
Sorry I made this so long ~ but it is helping me & it feels great to have such great support (all my friends were formula mom's so they cannot relate).
Beth
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Hi there - just chiming in from the Neocate and allergy standpoint... I totally agree with Stacy about bfing if you can. I wish I had. But I do have a point about Neocate - it is corn based but the way the corn and formula are made it is HIGHLY unusual for a baby to be able to be allergic to it - the percentage is some crazy low number. And although Dr. Sears says corn is a major allergen, many pediatric allergists disagree, my own DD's doctor included - who highly recommends introducing corn at 10 months - she thinks it's rarely an allergen and can provide some great wheat alternatives (chips, bread and more). So I highly doubt your DS would be allergic to Neocate - BUT it does not taste good and if he's used to breastmilk (much yummier) he may have a hard time accepting a formula that's not one of the tastier ones. You could try Alimentum first (we had good success with it) but it doesn't taste much better and like Stacy said, some babies still react to the proteins in it.
Re reflux, many babies have "silent reflux" where they don't spit up or vomit - instead they do bring BF/formula/stomach acids back up but swallow them back down - which can actually hurt more as they burn on both the way up and the way down.
Good luck with whatever you decide - you are a GREAT mom!
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Thought I'd add my two cents as well - I had every intention of bfing for the first year. Little did I know that I'd be faced with MFPI... I first eliminated all dairy and all soya from my diet and then had to exclude wheat and egg. As a non-meat eater I found this to be particularly challenging and the worst of it was, it still didn't clear up the blood in dd's stool. She did stop vomitting and the ezcema cleared up after I excluded dairy and soya. but the only option for addressing the blood was to exclude further food groups - next on the list was fish, nuts and legumes. The GI specialist and dietician I was seeing did not recommend this as they felt my diet would be nutritionally insufficient and my breast milk would be compromised.
The dietician suggested topping up with Neocate before eliminating any further food groups which I agreed to try. I had a week from h*ll when we first started this. DD absolutely refused the Neocate (it wasn't the bottle as I'd already been expressing and giving her the occasional bottle) and we both shed heaps of tears. I tried mixing expressed milk with Neocate but she simply screamed and refused. In the end, I used Tracy's advice and presented nothing but the bottle - it took 36 hours of her continuing to refuse the bottle before she finally caved in out of sheer hunger. I was an emotional wreck but dh was an absolute rock and provided as much support as possible. The good news was that a) after the food strike she was perfectly happy switching between bottle and breast b) the blood in her stool cleared up on two Neocate feeds a day (I continued with four breast feeds) and c) the bottom line - we saw a significant shift in dd's personality - she went from being a touchy baby to the happiest textbook/sprited baby on the block.
Although she was getting partial Neocate feeds I had to continue with the strict diet as long as I was breastfeeding. I found it very difficult as it meant we couldn't go out for dinner and we had to turn down dinner invites to friend's places as I couldn't very well ask them to adhere to my extremely restricted diet. After 3.5 months, I decided that for my sanity, to switch DD to Neocate 100%.
While I admire those that perservere with elimination diets for months on end, looking back, I do feel that my desire to breastfeed was being perhaps slightly selfish. In our case, breastmilk was clearly not what was best for baby and I wasn't prepared to admit that. There is such a stigma attached to bottle feeding in this day and age that I felt very guilty about giving my dd formula. However, several months on and I can say very definitively that I do not regret making the switch to Neocate.
I'm not advocating one over the other by any means. I think it's a very personal decision and you need to do what you feel is best. Although it's particularly challenging, one option to help put your mind at ease re the poop is to do a two week trial on Neocate/Alimentum. You'll need to express at every feed on top of giving a bottle so it's a very time consuming process, however, you'd maintain your milk supply and be able to resume bfing. This would help determine if you're still eating something that is causing a reaction
Best of luck!
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Beth, it kinda sounds like you guys might be having a growth spurt on top of everything. Have you gotten your period back yet? Sometimes supply will go down right before your periods come back, and baby will eat and eat and wake several times a night. (May account for the emotions too) Mine and my sister's both came back at 4 months post pardem despite exclusively breastfeeding. Another thing to consider with the grumpiness (his, lol!) is an ear infection. A lot of babies seem to get them now when teething.
I really appreciate some of our formula-feeding MSPI moms piping in with the other advice!
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Stacy, would you happen to know how common is it for a MSPI lo to have other allergies? My dd broke out into her rash when I gave her oatmeal as I mentioned so I immediately stopped, now she has broken out again as we just tried brown rice! Looks like she can only have plain rice or barley cereal. I'm beginning to worry now if she's going to have other allergies, dh and I don't have allergies but my twin has a few. Second question- when should I introduce protein? I've been reading that I should introduce meat in month 7 but I'm hesitant to, should I stick with just bfing, cereal, fruits/veggies for now? I'm in no rush to wean her so I was treating the solids as more "practice" food.
Ok, so sorry... I have a 3rd question! You're such a pro I can't help but ask you! (sorry in advance, this one's poop related)
Milena had blood in her stool from the milk products on and off for 5 months, she wasn't in discomfort once I eliminated the product from my diet in week 6 but every now and then I would make a mistake and the blood came back, always took AGES to clear. In month 6 we started solids and her poop changed- looked like the food she was eating and no visable blood the entire month. Now suddenly, her poop is fully formed and very normal looking yet her diet has not changed in the past 4 weeks (other than the intro of a new vg/ft every 3 days). Could this mean she may tolerate if I re-introduce some milk product into my diet? I'm afraid to try but I thought I'd ask if you know of bms changing once los can tolerate milk.
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Thanks again to everyine that has chimed in regarding my post! I really appreciate everyones advice, input, encouragement & honest feedback of your experiences ~ it means a lot to me that the formula feeding moms are helping from their end ~ and being so honest! THANK YOU!!! I plan on continuing to BF until month 6 & then see where we are (and play around some more with the diet to see what happens ~ elliminating or reducing some of the other foods....) But mucous (in any amounts) means that there is an intolerance, right? (Like I said before, he has only had blood 2 times, so I go by the mucous/smell & color) ~ his behavior lately is fine ~ or at least it was until about a week ago :)
Stacy ~ nope, no period! And my milk supply is DEFINETLY not down ~ b/c he is waking up so frequently at night & during the day with his fussiness that my supply is actually up ~ I was SO engorged this morning & in pain (even after he ate & I pumpled the other side ~ I pumped about 7 oz) ~ and my boobs still ache & are tender. We were thinking growth spurt ~ but I thought that they don't have another one until after 6 months? The other thing I was wondering is if it is teething ~ never been through it, so I am not sure but...
Over the last week or so his nightwaking has increased (waking up every 2-4 hours ~ where he was sleeping through the night before, and then sleeping until 5 am, and now waking up 2-3 times)... he is FUSSY during the day, wants to be on the boob all day, eating more frequently, chomping down on my boob ~ PAINFULLY!, has had a fever of 100.00 the last few days on & off & If we put anything towards him he chomps down, and drooling. So, we are thinking it is teething, but we don't "see" anything or feel anything significant ~ his gums are firmer though. I read that teething doesn't cause fevers or nightwaking ~ so I am not sure if that is what it is.... and if it is, how long BEFORE the tooth comes in? I can't take much more (LOL) I feel like I am getting grumpier than the baby!
As for ear infection ~ wouldn't there be other symptoms? (Like pulling on the ear ~ which he does not do) ~ so much for bf pprotecting against ear infections, huh? :) And if he is grumpy if we "entertain" him ~ he stops ~ so, that is why I assume it isn't anything big ~ b/c if he was in pain he wouldn't be distracted, right?
Thank you again to everyone! I appreciate it tremendously!!!
Beth
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Hi ~ here I go with needing more info..... hope you guys can help ease my mind, or give me some much needed insight .... well, I have been off of dairy/soy, tomatoes/berries for quite some time & my lo still has some mucous in his poops ~ so I was wondering if any of you ~ once the "offending" foods were elliminated did your lo continue to have mucous? He is a 5 month old & bf & his poops are a yellowish/green mixture (before they were just green, mostly all mucous & stinky). Now they are mostly that "bf smell," yellowish with some green, have some substance to them, but also have some mucous in them. Wondering if there is still something bothering him, or could this be fine? (He didn't have blood in his stool on a regualr basis, just 2 times) so I can't really go based on the no blood thing.
Thanks for any help!
Beth
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Hi Haleysmum,
It was quite reassuring to read what you had said below. I breast fed my first 2 daughters for 14 months and now my third is just not working. I have also been trying the elimination diet and had very little result. I was dairy/soy free for two months, in the end I was eating apples, vege, meat, rice and potato chips. It got pretty boring and still didn't get my daughter all clear. I have tried 3 formulas now and am currently on Neocate 6 days now (still expressing). She is still having mucus in her poo and they are still foamy but they have thickened up and only once a day. How long did it take for your baby to get to normal poos. We know she is lactose intolerant and also to the protein in milk, probably soy and nuts. I'm not sure if it is something else as well.
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Hi Sharlie,
I'd say the blood cleared up probably within 10 days - she never really had mucous (or if she did I didn't label it as such because her poop was quite loose -almost to the point of diarrhea). I think after a week on Neocate we started to notice a big change. She went from pooping after every feed to once every 1-2 days. Because of the Neocate, it also changed to a very dark green colour and was quite foul smelling - which I was told to expect and is perfectly normal. The consistency also changed and it was far stickier - almost like tar.
DD is not to the best of our knowledge lactose intolerant so don't know if that makes a difference re the mucous but Neocate should be fine for lactose intolerance.
I'd stick with the Neocate trial for a minimum of two weeks as that's how long it can take for something to clear from her system. It can take even longer for her gut to begin healing if it's been really irritated.
As I mentioned before, I knew the Neocate was making a big difference because she became a far more contented baby. In many regards, this proved that Neocate was the right choice for us far more so than the blood in her stool disappearing. So I guess my advice would be to look at the overall picture without focusing too much on the mucous. If you see signs of improvement elsewhere, stick with it a little longer and the mucous may resolve a while later!
Good luck
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Hi there - A couple of months ago I came to the conclusion that my baby was sick if I drank cows milk, ate cheeses such as camembert and ate eggs. So I have cut this out and she doesnt seem to be so sick anymore. When she was sick on occasions that I had eaten these dairy items she seemed to be uncomfortable rather than a normal spill and smile! She is just over 5mths now. I wondered if anyone else has had similar experiences and if you reintroduced dairy to your diet when the baby was slightly older and also what happened when the baby was old enough to eat those kind of foods themselves. I am totally breastfeeding but when she is around 9mths was wanting to start formula but wonder if this will be a problem? Thank you...........
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Hi Hayleysmum,
Thanks for your reply, it was really helpful. My dd has improved in a very similar way as you have described, she is a much happier little girl. I have stopped expressing. What a feeling of freedom. I know neocate was the right way to go for us as well. The worst is behind us now and we are looking forward to some smooth sailing for a while until it comes to solid time. I have been advised to hold off on dairy, soy, eggs, nuts and fish at least until after 12 months and then be really careful so thats still a while off yet.
Thanks again.
Sharlie
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Hi, Marie--
Sorry I'm no help to you... I was just thinking that you may want to try to post something like this in the Food Allergies forum instead of breast feeding. It's under Eat>Food Allergies. I know those ladies have lots of experience with these sorts of issues (baby reacting to mom's diet, elimination diets, etc). A moderator could just move this thread, but since I'm not one of those... HTH
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Oops!! I sent this to breastfeeding thinking there would be more response there. Sooo, even though there is no diagnosis, I'm merging this with the MSPI thread. There are moms there who do elimination and restricted diets while BFing. Sorry for all the confusion. :(
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Hello everyone... I'm new to the boards, but was looking for some feedback on DS's 4 month check today. The ped. recommended starting solids in a few weeks - first veggies, then meats, then fruits and last cereal. I was thinking it was best to wait until 6 months... what have other MSPI mothers done/been recommended? How did it go? I also was surprised not to start with cereal. Carter is my first and is sensitive to milk and somewhat to soy. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Carter's Mom!
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My breastfeeding clinic, lactation consultant, and LLL leader all told me to wait until 6 months or later with an exclusively breastfed baby. Here is a link to kellymom.com regarding solids introduction. http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/index.html Weigh that info and what your doctor told you, and that should help you decide what is right for your family. As with many things in parenting, there isn't a right or wrong way.
There is a new trend in breastfeeding mothers to skip the purees and jarred food. It's an interesting concept that I believe, that breastmilk is perfect nutrition until 12 months. Any foods your baby wants to feed themselves (between 6-8 months they start to self feed and practice with solids) is fine. It sure is a turn away from what companies like Gerber and Beechnut want us to believe - that we must feed our babies their jarred food at 4 months or else! LOL ;)
With my intolerant kids, I started with veggies and fruits. I gave them oatmeal from a pretty young age. Meats were next. Neither did solids until 6 months old. I waited on the high allergens (egg, milk, nuts, citrus, tomato, etc) until much later. I think my doc told me no nuts until after 3 yo, although it was too late, I had done peanut butter at 14 mos or so.
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thanks for your input... i may shoot for 5 months as a happy medium.
when did your kiddos outgrow their intolerances?? do they have any problems now?
thanks.
carter's mom
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I think I mentioned it somewhere in the 13 pages here, lol, but dd outgrew hers at 18 months, and ds outgrew his at 12-13 months. I am soy intolerant, so our house is soy-free, and I don't know if either of them are intolerant since they don't get it.
Ds still has an occasional nasty diaper if he's had too much milk products, esp ice cream.
LLL has a great list on "is my baby ready for solids" maybe instead of shooting for a date, you could wait until your bub shows the readiness signs and then try? Readiness is being able to sit in a high chair (strong chest/head/neck), the tongue-thrust reflex is gone (where they will swallow food instead of pushing it back out with their tongue), they are interested in watching you eat and mock your motions of eating like opening their mouth when you do. Those are just some!
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Thanks... I was guessing it was in there somewhere! DS is definitely showing interest in starting to eat... he loves watching his daddy eat and can just about sit up on his own. I'm the one dragging my feet b/c of the intolerances and the extra effort (cleanup, monitoring, etc.) I think it's hard enough to watch for reactions to what I eat... let alone what he's going to start eating... I guess waiting a little longer won't hurt! Thanks a ton for your input - throughout these posts!
Thanks,
Carter's Mom
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We are almost at 13 months, and I've been gradually adding yogurt and cheese to ds's diet. No reaction yet. Yay! I'm waiting to start milk, and we haven't begun to think about soy yet.
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How do you know if a milk protein allergy is outgrown?
My dd had blood in her stool when she was much younger, haven't seen any sign of it since she was 5 months old and she's now still bf and on solids (though doesn't take much solids). We took her to an allergist and they did a skin test that showed she was not allergic to milk or soy but the allergist said to still stay clear of milk products because the skin test is not a good test for the milk allergy. He wants to wait 6 months and then do a blood test followed by a milk challenge and then another blood test. Just prior, I ate a piece of cheese to see if she would have any reaction and there was no blood in her stool (visable), her stool was more runny (sorry if tmi), does this mean she's still allergic? I hate the thought of continuing to restrict my diet for another 6 months :'( but will if I have to. Have any of you been told to wait to get tested or did you just try to reintroduce milk?
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Kim, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your continued success!
FTM, I think the general rule for babies like ours is to wait longer to try them on milk products. You can try a few things (in *your* diet, one at a time) to see how she does. Make sure not to add anything new to her diet if you're trying milk for yourself, or you'll just say "gee, I wonder if it was the milk I ate or the plums I gave her?" If/Once she handles milk ok through your breastmilk, then it would be ok to try yogurt, then cheese, etc in her diet, after 12 months usually for intolerant babies.
Intolerance is much different than allergic, intolerance won't show up on an allergy test. Just like I am intolerant to sesame seeds, not allergic, but boy do I get ill if I eat them!
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Hi all!!! Just checking in... it has been awhile. My little guy Palmer is MSPI also, but I believe he is getting a bit better. I can eat regular lunch meat and a bit of soy now without much of a reaction. My main problem is my milk supply. I drink enough and eat enough (I haven't lost any weight since my 8 week check up WAH!), take a multi vit and extra Ca/Mg. I also drink Nursing Mother's tea. Yet still I have almost nothing in the evening.
I am thinking of giving him some Nutramigen to see if he tolerates it. I really don't want to but he has been waking up hungry in the middle of the night (and at around 5am as he usually does) because I barely have any milk at his before bedtime feeding. I am having problems with the afternoon (around 4pm) feeding also. He is screaming for dinner at 5pm where he use to be able to wait until 6pm to eat with the rest of the family. He is also constipated so I am fearfull that he isn't getting enough fluids. He will take a few ounces from a sippy, but that is obviously not enough.
I am counting the months until I can wean him. This makes me sad as I really enjoy breastfeeding, but I am SO TIRED of this diet. And I know that I don't have to be as strict as others do.
Palmer is doing well. I would like to start giving him some finger foods, but he really can't tolerate any grains.. he gets even more constipated and he can't seem to pick up slippery fruits/veges.
I am rambling. Anyway just wanted to pop in to say hello and offer my support to all of you dealing with MSPI. ;D
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*waves* Hi Cassie!! Glad you are getting a few more things to eat. How is your water intake? Have you tried nursing him more often during the day to see if it will increase your supply? I found that night wakings often came with AF around the corner.
My sister has a lo Palmer's age, so I can just imagine how absolutely cute and sweet he must be about right now.
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Stacey, what's "AF"? I'm curious because my dd generally nurses 5x a day with no nws and prior to yesterday, was "snacking" all day long. She wouldn't nurse more than 3 minutes so I was concerned about my supply so I would offer again an hour later and the same would happen. I ended up putting her on the breast a total of 9x :o. She also had 2 nws for about 3 nights. Yesterday, all was back to normal as was today. Any idea what would cause this? I did also get my period for the first time and it's gone now so I assumed it was a change in taste or supply of breast milk.
Also, in terms of the milk allergy, would this cause their stools to be softer? My dd still has stools around 4x a day including one explosion. Now she's on solids (past 2 months) and it almost looks like I could spoon it into a jar and call it baby food. I'm thinking of giving her a specific colour to see how many hours later it comes out. She's a lightweight and slow to gain baby so I sometimes wonder if she's not absorbing the nutrients. As for the milk- I eat ZERO hidden milk/butter/ etc. We're away right now and dh brought food to the room from a restaurant while I packed food for myself from home. I had one screw up at a restaurant once giving me butter so I don't trust cooks anymore unless it's fine dining and dealing with chefs so I know for sure I haven't taken in any.
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Marian - AF is just a slang term for your peroid. So that could have been what was going on wtih your lo!!! I think my milk supply is even lower right before and during my period. Plus I am sure it does change the taste.
I do drink plenty of water. And I have been trying to put him to the breast before naps now too to increase my supply. Palmer is not a comfort nurser. He is all about the food, but it there isn't anything in there he either looks at me like I am crazy or gets really irritated. He won't just suck for awhile to see if something eventually comes out. ;D So he usually sucks a few times and then looks at me like I am nutso. LOL
I will try to post a picture. He definitely doesn't LOOK malnourished. LOL
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okay here it goes!
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Cassie, cute picture! Could your lo pick up slippery fruit/veg. if they were coated in rice cereal? (the powder) It was an idea I heard from someone else on the forum.
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I dont' know... I will try it! Hopefully that small amount of cereal wouldn't be too much for his belly to handle.
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Cute pic!! :)
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Is it possible that reactions to what I'm eating can be delayed in my 4.5 month old? It seems like he used to react several hours later.. but I had been avoiding beef and recently (a few bites Saturday and then a hb on Monday) tried to reintroduce... he was fine until today where he is gassy, has very runny diapers and now is having trouble going down for his nap - keeps pulling his legs to his chest. Any thoughts? Do I assume this is a reaction to the beef? I haven't had anything else new except a plum for lunch - but he only ate an hour after that. Help!?
Thanks,
Steph :-\
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See above... I'm back again this afternoon. Been thinking all afternoon about giving up breastfeeding and switching to formula. Has anyone done this? I'm soooo frustrated with trying to figure out what ds is reacting to and just about to start solids and very nervous about it. I have some Alimentum (sp?) to try out - ds hasn't ever had formula - he's 4.5 months. Wondering if this will make things easier on me... but how will it affect my lo?? I've also been struggling with ms - been on fenugreek. Please share your thoughts.. I'm at a loss.
Steph :'(
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I know how you must feel, I've been in the same situation and it's so frustrating. What made you decide to eliminate beef? Is your ds allergic to milk products? If so, it could be the bread (I'm assuming you had a bun with your hb). I've had to cut all bread and baked goods due to the butter and milk, my dd reacts with the smallest amount and it can be a delayed reaction for her but with her it includes blood in her stool. We saw a baby allergist specialist and this helped to determine her allergies (though the typical skin milk allergy test does not determine the protein allergy)
You need to decide what is best for your lo and for you, I can only tell you my personal situation and that is that I decided to continue bfing even though my diet is very limited. I am now used to my diet and have found interesting food "treats" to have now and then, I'm VERY happy to have continued bfing. If you decide to switch to formula do know that you gave your ds a GREAT start bfing as long as you have.
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I think it's pretty normal to have a delayed reaction like that. Did you cook the hamburger yourself? Have you eaten out somewhere that could have brushed the burger with butter or cooked it in "whirl" a buttery grease?
Formula wasn't an option ($-wise) for us, and I am thankful because it made me have to continue. I did consider formula for dd when she was 10 months old, I was 8 weeks pregnant and not producing much milk. The Alimentum is nasty, imho, she wouldn't drink it and I wouldn't either. Most milk protein intolerant babies can't handle it - it still has milk proteins they are just "pre-digested" If soy is ok, soy formula is an option, otherwise you'll have to go with the hypoallergenic Neocate or similar, which means big $$$ bucks.
My sister is milk-free too, nursing her 9 month old, and she tried reintroducing milk last month. Cora broke out in a rash, had visible blood in her poop, mucus, woke up hourly, and got a double ear infection. When I look back on how fast it went - I just have to keep saying "it was so worth it" to give them health, and a chance at life without food allergies.
Even if you have a few bad spells now and again, are most days good?
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Yes - most days are very good. Thank you both for your encouragement. I feel like there are so many ups and downs that take me on an emotional rollar coaster... but you're so right it is best and easiest for both Carter and I! He is so healthy and growing so well.. I don't know why I get so stressed out.
As for the beef the lc recommended I avoid this, the ped told me she hadn't seen this to try it again. I also realized b/c of ms issues I had given Carter some stored milk the night before - which could have been bad or something i guess. Maybe it wasn't the burger (which we did grill ourselves)... I'll have to try again in a few weeks. As for the bun... I thought it was m/sf except for some soy flour (which I thought he could tolerate). I have been eating a Sara Lee wheat bread all along that I think is ok. Have you tried this Firsttime Mom. I feel like I'm in the movie groundhog's day... trying to get his diet perfect. Maybe perfection isn't goal.. maybe it's more like survival!
Thanks for the encouragement. I'll press on! Is is reasonable to consider weaning at 12 months with a mspi baby? I need to have an endpoint in mind!
Steph
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Absolutely, as long as he's game. DD weaned herself three days shy of her first birthday. I started giving her a cup of soy milk at 11 months, instead of one nursing. I increased that a couple weeks later by one cup. My milk supply dwindled (I was 20 weeks pregnant) and she weaned and just had soy milk in a straw cup.
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Hi everyone,
My daughter is 14 1/2 months old and I still nurse her because our ped. recommended me continue until she outgrows MSPI. I have extended my maternity leave for another year so this is possible for me. I can now eat in the last couple weeks some soy and I don't think she is reacting. My question is how do I check if she still has a sensitivity? Do I see if she can tolerate it through the breastmilk first? Then try giving her yogurt, cheese etc?
Thanks
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Mommynow, I've read to just try every now and then to reintroduce milk products. My ped and childrens' allergist said no as blood in the stool can be microscopic, instead I have to wait until dd is 12 mths then they will do blood work/stool sample, do a milk challenge followed by more blood work/stool sample. In her case (when I ate milk products) she was cranky/in pain and had lots of blood in her stool. My ped has also told me to bf as long as possible and not use milk alternatives. I enjoy bf but hate that I've eliminated all milk products, for all I know she's outgrown it yet I am having to wait until the tests at 12 mths.
Steph, how are you doing? I haven't had the SL bread, I found a wheat bread with no milk products and most pita breads I can eat.
I have a FAB recipe for muffins if anyone is interested.
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Wow! I admire you all so much for pressing on - this is such a difficult thing to do (the MSPI diet) - I can't even imagine doing it for more than a year - the past 4 1/2 months have been hard enough for me. Overall we're doing pretty good. I know that Carter is very ready to have solids and I'm excited for him to as well- but I'm so nervous I won't be able to tell what he is/isn't reacting to since I haven't got my own diet perfect for him yet. I am going to go ahead and try Alimentum this week just to see if he tolerates... I am planning to give for 1 feeding tomorrow and 2 the next day. Will it be obvious if he reacts or not?? Do I look for the same reaction as to what I'm eating? I have had so many milk supply issues which combine with the MSPI issues to stress me out. I need to have a backup as I am running low on my EBM supply. Hopefully then we'll try solids this weekend. At this point I plan to continue bf until 12 months - if possible - hopefully though if I make it that far I can go as long as he needs me!!! Thanks for all your support. I never realized how challenging this parenting thing could be :) Or as rewarding!! BTW I'd love your muffin recipe!
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Mommynow, at 14.5 months, since you are still breastfeeding, I would check her tolerance through you breastmilk first. I wouldn't try a new thing more often than every other week though, since it can take so long for a reaction.
Yogurt is the best milk product to try first. It is easier on your tummy after being gone off milk so long.
I have to say that Max has been weaned since last November, and I am still pretty much on MSPI diet. The only dairy I eat is butter, and very rarely cheese. Rice milk and Rice Dream ice cream are just fine for me, thanks! I just feel so much better on the MSPI diet, more energy, bowels feel better. So if a year "sentence" sounds like an eternity, well it isn't! ;) Some of us crazy ones just keep on going. Especially with nursing, that 1 yr birthday comes up, and many of us just aren't quite ready to quit!
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SAHNE, here's the recipe-
2 cups flour
1 1/4 cups sugar
2 tsp baking soda
2 tsp cinnamon
2 tsp salt
2 cups raisins
2 cups chopped nuts (I use almonds, walnuts and pecans)
2 cups flaked unsweetened coconut
3 eggs
3/4 veg oil
1 tsp vanilla
2 cups grated zucchini or peeled carrots (I use 1 cup of each)
1 grated peeled apple
combine first 8 in large bowl, stir well to blend
Beat eggs, vanilla, zucchini and apple in med bowl. Add to dry ingredients, stir until moistened. Spoon batter into greased or lined muffin pans and bake in 350 27-30 min or until top springs back. Makes 24 large or 12 jumbo. Enjoy! These are often part of my breakfast.
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Thanks! I'll give it a try ;D
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YOU CAN DO IT!!!! Palmer is almost 9 mos and I have been M/S proten free since he was about 2 months. I am also counting the days until he is weaned which is sad as this is my last baby. But really I can't wait to eat whatever I want! I am also having supply issues.. have been for months. I have tried everything and can't increase it. I have only 2 bottle of EBM in the freezer as I can't pump more than 2 oz at a time. I tried Palmer on Alimentum last month. He refused to drink it and I can't blame him. It is nasty. Nutramigen is a bit better I think. I have decided to just start giving him some rice milk at 10 month.
This is just my opinion, but I would hold off on solids until your lo is 6 months. I have found that Palmer is much more sensitive to foods than my first son. He can now tolerate some cereals, but only if I mix them with pear or prune juice. He doesn't do well with peas.
Palmer's reacts about 24 hours after I eat the offending food. He is very crabby (very unlike him as he is usually the happiest baby ever!) and doesn't sleep well.
Hang in there!!! You can do it!
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Thanks for the words of encouragement Cassie... so far we're still moving forward! I tried the alimentum and Carter would take it - but didn't enjoy it as much as bm (wonder why!?!) - I feel better knowing we could use it here or there if needed - but do plan to press on with nursing. His eczema also seemed to flare just a bit - which makes me think if he is on it full-time things may get progressively worse as the skin is using the first to react for him. I am planning to try solids on this weekend - starting with veggies. He is soooo very interested in food that I don't want to hold off any longer. We'll see how it goes. I've been using fenugreek for milk supply and this has been helping... that and pumping once at the end of the day (since ds sleep 11 hours). Thanks again for everyone and their encouragement. Cassie- you'll have to let us know how Rice Milk goes... has anyone tried goat's milk?? Is that too closely related to cow's milk?
Thanks!!
Steph
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Hey Steph,
Just thought I'd pass on something that maybe worthwhile for you to try regarding the eczema. Mths ago Milena broke out into a rash after trying organic oatmeal cereal (which I discontinued), it then turned into a bad case of excema and got worse when we tried organic brown rice cereal. I posted and searched for alternatives to cortizone cream and someone suggested giving an herbal bath of Roobois tea. I tried the tea as creams were not helping and the tea worked amazing. I saw a 40% improvement after about 3 baths and within under 2 weeks her skin had totally cleared.
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Oh, I forgot, as for the goat's milk, I would stay away from it. My ped said they could react to it the same. Months ago I tried a piece of feta cheese to see if Milena would react and she had blood in her stool and runny stools by the next day. Just our experience. We just had a ped appt this week and I asked about milk alternatives for Milena. Ped said instead to give soy formula as the Milk substitute if I wanted (I'm lucky she's fine with soy). I'm not going to as long as I continue to bf. She also said "extra" calcium was not required as they get lots in their cereal and from bfing. She has never seem a lo that was short on calcium but did see los with low iron.
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Thanks for the advice on the eczema - I'll have to find some of that tea. Do you just put the tea bags into the water? Sounds like a neat trick. Also thanks for the heads up on goats milk - I was planning to ask our dr. at the next checkup. Someone should be working on some alternatives for these babies - and their moms!! I think it would be easier just to have a "formula" drink for us!!
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I use the loose tea and just toss it in with the hot bath water before I add cool water, it's messy and can stain (red) but the tub cleans easy. I use rice milk and just bought almond milk to try. I have a local health food grocery store near me which is great, they have all kinds of cookies/squares and other foods that are for vegan diets so they work for my dairy free diet. I bought a dairly free cheese to try once, it was quite expensive, but then couldn't bring myself to try it- the thought of it was too gross so I tossed it!
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That's so nice you have the health store available - we just moved to central Nebraska (USA) and well... not so many options. I'll have to load up next time we go to the city. I tried soy milk once, but ds reacted... haven't tried rice milk - didn't sound to good - I like the rice dream frozen dessert though. I'll have to try rice and/or almond milk.
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Tried the almond milk and it's gross, I think it's an aquired taste but then so was the rice milk. I can't drink any of them on their own (but then I always hated the smell and taste of cow's milk) but it works well in my coffee and I use it for making pancakes, frozen fruit shakes, etc.
Did you know we can eat chocolate?! As long as it's not milk chocolate, has to be the dark real stuff (read the ingredients). Oh, what a treat, I've died and gone to heaven!!!
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Yes, I discovered ghirardelli chocolate chips that are amazing!! And duncan hines makes a msf brownie mix... these have definitely been a great treat!!! I haven't tried any other chocolates yet.
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First Time Mom - tried the muffins this week -- yummy! Thanks for the recipe!
We also started solids... only Squash so far - we're on day 4. He's eaten about 3 tsp. once each day. He always has eczema off/on and it seems to be a bit worse (not much, dh says I'm way to paranoid) and is a little more gassy and bm's seem to be changing and bothering him slightly - should I be concerned or are these normal transitional symptons when MSPI babies start solids as they have weaker digestive systems?? Just curious.
Thanks,
Steph
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Hi there. This is the first time I have posted, I have been reading this thread for a while - great info - thanks! My son Connor is 4 month's old and has acid reflux, MSPI and kidney reflux. The Acid reflux is OK now he's on prevacid and pepcid. We're doing well with Chiropractor treatment and our Ped has suggested Cranio Sacral therapy which we start next week.
Green and Blacks Organic dark chocolate and maya gold (chocolate orange) is also MSP free - it's delicious!
Word of warning - don't buy Harris Teeter Rice Milk - I wondered why my son was reacting badly - it's got soy in it - can you believe it???! I was so angry I called them to complain. Rice milk with soy in it - that's so dumb.
I have totally cut out milk and soy. Here's the weird thing though - we live in the US - our son pukes alot; due to acid reflux and MSPI so we're told. We've just got back from 3 weeks in the UK and he didn't puke at all. Now we're back he's puking again. Strange??
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I read in an MSPI book (can't remember the author right now) that MSPI is more common in the midwestern US. I wonder if that's true?
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Steph, I look for zero reaction with new foods/solids. I would say added gas, excema, etc., could be that the solids do not quite agree yet. In what way have the bm changed? Bm's will change with the intro of solids, bf'd babies bm smells like roses in comparison to when solids are introduced! DD's changed to be more "solid" and stinky now that she's on solids. With the gas and excema (depending on how bad) I would stop the squash and try again later. Either wait until 6+ mths or try something else mild- banana, avocado, or rice cereal. DD had reaction to oatmeal and brown rice cereal (both organic) when she was 7.5 mths but I just tried it again at 9.5 mths and she's fine now. Try the Roobois tea bath for the excema, worked wonders for us! Glad you liked the muffins! I just made another batch myself.
Brit in USA, I LOVE that chocolate!! My sis just picked me up the orange one while out for a walk and I'm waiting for her to come visit me!! That's very strange about the not-puking in the UK! Here (in Canada and US) we're into hormones in animal feed, GMO's in our food, etc., Europe seems to be so much tighter with what they don't accept, I always wondered if our allergies are because of this.
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Bummer - he was just loving the eat thing.. but I was guessing the reaction was no good. His bm's have been less (possibly a little constipated??) and alternate b/n green and yellow - pretty runny. Ped said to start on veggies as opposed to cereal. I have some sweet potatoes for him - maybe I'll try those?? Or do you think it's just the solid thing altogether??
Thanks,
Steph
THanks for the choc. idea Brit in the USA!
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Many babies can get slightly consitpated from starting solids especially if starting with cereal. Can't see it with veggies though, I wouldn't think they'd get constipated. Constipated and pretty runny when he does go sounds like maybe he's not ready, especially when you add the fact that there's green (yet he hasn't eaten anything green). I think I'd hold off until his system gets back to regular and then try again, it'll put you closer to the 6 mths anyways. If his bms are runny I would also be counting his wet diapers (5-6) to make sure he doesn't get dehydrated.
Are you still giving him the other formula that you tried? If so, is he fine with it? I would also just make sure it's from the solids and not the formula, another good reason I guess, for holding off on the solids a bit, to establish if the prob is with the formula or the solids.
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Thanks for the insight... how is it that you're so wise as a first time mom and I'm so clueless?? :) Seriously, I appreciate your help. I just did the formula thing for a couple of days - then decided to go back to bf - however it could be something I ate as I don't think I'm always 100% clear even though I try so hard. I did try sweet potatoes with him this morning- I guess I'll see how it goes and if same result hold off for a few weeks. Wish I could figure out what it is that I'm still eating... guess I need to go back to the food diary for a few weeks.
I was thinking it would be fun/helpful for some of us to post our normal bfast, lunch and dinner menus to help give each other ideas??!! If anyone wants to, I appreciate it! (also include the foods you're avoiding)
Thanks,
Steph
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Hey Steph,
I'm not so wise, I just have 4 months more baby experience than you do ;D. Good for you for going back to the bfing!!!! It took me ages to 100% eliminate all dairy, at first I was clueless when the ped told me to eliminate so I only kicked out the obvious- cheese, milk, etc. Then I started to really read labels and eliminated the rest.
I don't eat out much, I don't trust restaurants unless they're fine dining as I've had 2 screw ups while eating out. My rule of thumb is that if there's a "cook" I won't eat there unless I know 100% what's in my food w/o asking for a substitution, if there's a "chef" then they're more serious about getting your meal 100% to your satisfaction.
Typical day eating at home-
Breakfast- one of my muffins and one fruit shake I make. (shake is- orange juice, rice milk, fresh strawberries, kiwi, mango, banana, and frozen blueberries topped with organic granola that has dried fruit in it. Followed with Starbucks decaf.
Snack- I eat TONS of nuts, so I usually will have sunflower seeds, almonds, or cashews here with another Starbucks decaf and maybe another muffin.
Lunch- Chickpea salad (chickpeas, raisins, artichoke, oil, vinegar, brown sugar, fresh parsley) and pita bread. I usually have this or a salad I make or some veggie mix or stirfry veggies that I make with pita bread. If I'm at the park and taking a "picnic" with dd, I'll make a huge fruit salad and peanut butter sandwich.
3pm Snack- chocolate OR 2 Pop Tarts.
Dinner- roasted chicken breast, salad or veggies, steamed rice OR pasta w/ tomato sauce, salad.
8pm Snack- 2 more Pop Tarts
10pm Snack- an entire honey dew melon in one sitting OR an apple with 2 tbsps of peanut butter.
LOL, I've just realised that I'm on a 3 hour EASY with a cluster feed! What can I say, I like to eat. I eat TONS of Pop Tarts (I buy the 3 box bulk pack at Costco), fruit, veggies, and nuts. The Pop Tarts and nuts have started with the elimination of milk 8 months ago. I used to like desert with my coffee so the Pop Tarts are my replacement. I don't "count calories", never have had to worry about weight, aside from the PT's I eat fairly health- don't care for fried food.
Foods to avoid-
There's a great list on another thread that will tell you the "hidden" names to look for in ingredients. 3 things I messed up with in the beginning were Quaker Oatmeal- I had no idea there was milk, and anything "breaded" as there's often milk hidden, and many breads.
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Thanks - this is so helpful!! Some great ideas. Also, thanks for the heads up on the oatmeal... I had oatmeal for breakfast Saturday, Sunday and Monday... same days ds had his first solids. Today his eczema is much better - yay!! And he's had sweet potatoes the past 2 mornings... we use cetaphil, aquaphor and some rejuvenating cream from Arabon a friend gave me... which has helped clear him up. I can't believe about the oatmeal. Also his diapers were much better today... much more formed than they've ever been - though there were some streaks of orange, which at first I thought was blood... but it was orange I think - would this be normal with the sweet potatoes being orange??
My diet mainstays are dry Life cereal (still haven't tried rice milk) and banana for bfast - this week your muffins though :) Lunch - deli meat sandwiches or PBJ, fruit, carrots; snacks: pop tarts here too!, graham crackers, grapes; dinner - pasta with tomato sauce, grilled chicken, BLTs, chimichangas with shredded chicken and refried beans. Also, twizzlers for my sweet tooth and OJ. Still can't believe the oatmeal.
Thanks for the insights! If anyone else has great food ideas - let us know!
Steph
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That's great about his excema and poops! Orange is normal, you'll see colour from his food for a while yet. Just wait until he eats blueberries or black beans- black poop!
Funny about your diet, it's very similar to mine! Just make sure to read the ingredients on the bread. Print and cut out the list from the thread on MSPI from Mouse'smom, it's a great list to carry around for eating out and grocery shopping. Stay away from the chocolate pop tarts- they have milk. LOL about the twizzlers, I treat myself to these too, along with sour patch kids, and Mike and Ike's. What are chimichangas? NEVER heard of this! Oh,and for the pasta sauce- read the ingredients if you're using store bought, I was surprised that some have milk products from what they call cheese though the label may be called "tomato and veggie" so you may not be aware about the cheese and sure can't taste it.
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More good thoughts... chimichangas are pretty much like enchiladas - a mexican dish. Let me know if you'd like the recipe!! Mike and Ikes are another fave of mine ;D I'll have to check my pasta sauce as I do eat frequently! Thanks for the heads up! Oh.. just made more of the yummy muffins tonight to take to my parents for the weekend!! I'm lovin' them!!
Steph
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Pass on the recipe please!! ;D
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Sorry it took me a while... I was out of town and then couldn't get signed on for a few days... BTW Carter ended up breaking out again with the s.potatoes - so we're off solids for another month to clear him up and try again! Bummer! Guess it's easier not to mess with solids anyway!
Here's the recipe! Enjoy! ;D
8 oz. - cooked ckn, turkey, pork or beef (shredded)
8 oz. jar - salsa
16 oz. can - refried beans
4.5 oz. can - diced green chili peppers, drained
3 T. - thinly sliced green onions (I leave out b/c I don't like them)
4 oz. - shredded cheese (obviously leave this out too!)
8 - 8/9" tortillas
1. In lg. skillet combine meat, salsa, beans, chili peppers and green onions. Cook and stir over med. heat until heated through. (this is also where the cheese is added - if you use post MSPI diet :))
2. Meanwhile, wrap tortillas in foil; warm in 350 oven for 10 minutes. For each chimichanga, spoon 1/2 cup of mixture on a tortilla, near 1 edge. Fold in sides; roll up.
3. Place in 9x13 pan. Bake uncovered for 15-20 minutes (350) or until heated thoroughly and tortillas are crisp and browned.
***Husband likes with s. cream b/c he can. I use with more salsa.
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That sounds good! I'll have to try it (minus the sour cream and cheese :'(). Funny, I never crave sc or cheese anymore but every now and then, like NOW, when I read your recipe, I suddenly pictured the taste of it with sc and cheese!
So sorry to hear of his break out. Check to make sure there's no milk in your Life cereal ingredients and breads. Did you print out the milk list to use? I find it very handy. Maybe try him on bananas or avocado, once he clears up. My local bfing clinic said to start with these, low allergy and high in nutrients.
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hi there
I just love the babywhisperer board, I swear it has every single topic I could think of covered! I wish I'd found the site much sooner, but happy to have found it now. My breastfed DS is 7 months old, and he was diagnosed with MPI at 2 months of age, he was fussy and had green mucousy poops. After cutting out all dairy for 2 weeks, the green went away and his temperament improved, but he still had traces of occult blood in his stool when we went back to check him at 4-months. The doc said it could take 6 weeks to get all the dairy out of my system and his, so that's why we waited 2 months to test it again. So she suggested I cut out soy, which I did, and he still had blood 2 weeks later. Since then I've tried 2-week trials of eggs, wheat, beef, and even did an elimination diet (from the Dr.Sears website) where all I ate was rice, turkey, lamb and sweet potatoes for 2 weeks-- still blood. This was at his 6 month appt. I was about to pull my hair out, so I decided to take a break from it all and just keep doing the milk/soy free diet. Then I read an article on the american academy of pediatrics, and it describes DS to a "T"-- he had no vomitting or diarrhea, he was above average for height/weight, the only symptoms were blood in stool. The article mentioned milk & soy as most likely culprits, but also mentioned egg.
SO, getting finally to my question ;) has anyone found that their LO has egg as an allergy in addition to soy/milk? 2nd question: how long did it take you to resolve your LO's symptoms? I've been egg free for 2 weeks, which I'd done before, but when I read the article it said it can take 2 weeks for the bleeding to stop, and then 4 weeks for the gut to heal. So I'm wondering if I actually need to avoid egg for 6 weeks before testing, and if I should cut out beef x6 weeks as well. I would be so sad if I had to eliminate beef, since I just love it and already feel like I can't eat much, but I am willing to do anything so I can continue to breastfeed him and hopefully help him with his allergies in the long run. You can't believe how encouraged I was to read here about the hope of this clearing by the time he's 2 or so, my doc had mentioned it but it's awesome to read of people for whom this has been a reality.
any advice/help is appreciated.
Oh, here's another question: I read that McDonald's should be avoided due to milk in their burgers/fries? And that Burger King was ok? Does anyone know if this is current info? And is Jack in the Box ok? Someone also mentioned that regular oreos were NOT alright, but mini's were OK. I read the ingredient list, is there something I'm missing? I didn't see anything about milk, unless vanillin is indicative of milk? ok thanks for any replies!
-regina
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Hi Regina!
My dd had blood in her stool on and off for 6 months. For her first 6 weeks she screamed and didn't sleep until 4:30am every night, it was then that the hospital said "milk protein allergy". I eliminated milk products and the blood took 4 weeks to clear. Every now and then I'd make a mistake (ie. eat bread, prepackaged oatmeal) or I've had restaurants make mistakes in my order (this always really p'd me off, if it were a peanut allergy I'd be dead). Her screaming stopped as soon as I eliminated the milk products but the blood always seemed to come back every now and then, sometimes I couldn't even pin point how I'd taken in milk products. I was pretty strict with my diet (still am). It seemed once she really got into solids the blood stopped. I never eliminated beef or egg, my doc said a total bovine allergy is extremely rare. From my understanding, the blood is only caused by milk protein allergy so, not egg.
Under the allergy board there is a thread MSPI by mouse'smom, it's a 'cut out' that you can carry around with you, it lists all the milk product names to avoid.
Fast food, I stay away, I've learned my from my mistakes, my rule of thumb is "if there is a cook stay clear, if there is a chef you're safe that they will listen to your requested changes to the menu" ;) I would think all burger breads have milk? I only eat pita bread. As for the Oreos, I checked this out a while back and did find milk product on the list, I think it was the vanilla (the chocolate would have milk perhaps) that I checked, anyways I don't eat them.
Treats to have...Pop Tarts!!!! No milk! If you're eliminating soy there's always almond milk (I even use this to make pancakes). If you have a heath food store nearby you'll find lots of great treats, they stock lots of foods for vegans and this is safe.
Question for you- how are they testing your lo? I have a follow up test at a children's allergist specialist to see if she's over her allergy after 12 mths but it's blood tests they're doing. Way back when I was in the hospital they said the only way was to check their stool for microscopic blood.
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I believe McDonald's fries are ok, but check their website. We never had a problem with them. Check the site for Arby's if you have one near you--there are many more things you can eat there.
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hi Marian
that's a good rule of thumb for eating out, I bet that's been a big part of my problem because I have definitely been eating out, including fast food. Since I've had DS I haven't had the time/$$ to go to a restaurant with a chef! ;) So I need to limit it to restaurants like that, as well as being really specific with the waiters.
Interesting that you said you haven't seen blood since your LO was 6 months and started solids, because I haven't seen any of the mucous or greenness since DS started solids. However, his poops are a lot more solid now, so I thought it's hiding inside... ? haha.. The doc has been testing his poop for blood, I have discovered since reading the posts on this board that I'm very fortunate to have had the doctor I do because my first pediatrician told me not to worry about the grass-green poos he was having "poops change color based off what you eat"... yadda yadda... Gotta trust that mommy instinct. I told my current Pedi. that DS had green poops and she wasn't worried til I added that I'd seen what looked like snot in them. Then she was all over it, said "milk protein allergy" and got me off to a good start when he was 2-months. She tested his poop first, and when that was confirmed she told me what to do.
That's good to know about the beef and egg. I bet DS still had occult blood in his stool because I hadn't managed to totally cut out every little bit of dairy/soy. I'm getting ready to bring some more poop down to the doctor's to have it tested and I'll go from there. Did you have any luck with your doctor just giving you some of the papers to test with? My mom was a MA and said that it's a test anyone can do, I haven't asked yet if I can get some to test at home but was thinking about it.
I'm so sorry to hear about your LO's first 6 weeks, that must have been so hard for you guys! Thank goodness you finally got it sorted out. I heard that MSPI doesn't come up positive in certain tests, maybe it's the skin prick test? But does it test correctly with blood? It must otherwise your allergist wouldn't be doing it. Anyways, hopefully our kids will outgrow all of this.
Kim, thanks for the tip on Arby's, we do have them here and I totally forget to eat there! I'll check them out. We also just got a Chick fil-A which I'm stoked about since I read that their chicken sandwich & fries are OK. Maybe I'll call McDonalds about the fries, I'd heard elsewhere that they inject milk in them or something like that.
thanks guys!
-regina
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Funny, when I didn't see blood anymore it was when her poops became more solid and she went from going 4x a day to 1x a day. I used to mush it in the diaper looking for blood (I know, TMI!!!).
I stopped the fast food because I was at a local "Swiss Chalet" and they have a list for nutrition and allergies, I was surprised at the items that had milk products listed (ie. chicken fingers) and actually shocked by how short the list was for the items that contained no milk. Watch the bread buns on the burgers in the fast food places, lots of bread is made with some form of milk.
True about the skin test, my allergist did the skin test on Milena for milk and it came back negative but he said it's not a reliable test for milk protein allergy. I wish I could do a home test now, I'm dying to a normal Thanksgiving dinner this weekend! Unfortunately, my doc wants to wait until she hits 12 mths.
Luckily I never had to cut out soy as that eliminates so many foods!
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LOL about the diaper mushing! Desperate moms, I know. My DH knows not to throw away any poopy diapers without letting the Official Poo Inspector come have a look. ;D
Not sure what I was thinking with eating at fast food, I know from looking at many a label on buns at the stores that most of them have milk! I think I was in denial, sort of dont ask, dont tell. Since Chick fil A was mentioned I assume that the buns are ok? Guess I will check that out myself ;)
Oh man, what are we going to do for gravy for Thanksgiving?!? I did not even think about that. And the green bean casserole has cream of mushroom soup... oh boy. At least I can get my mom to make a side of milk-free mashed taties for me, maybe use some milk-free chicken broth instead? And pumpkin pie I am pretty sure has milk in it, condensed milk... Oh boy. I guess I will be sitting on the side munching my pop tart while everyone eats theirs! Hey maybe this will be the first Thanksgiving that I do not get a cold later since I did not over eat! see there is a silver lining on every cloud...
yes, cutting out soy was tough, especially since I had just discovered the joys of Tofutti cuties :-\ And I way preferred soy milk over rice milk. But I want to test his poops and then do an egg challenge in 2 weeks, and then a soy challenge. Gotta be super careful with the milk in the meantime, I guess I will have to start being more of a detective.
so anyone have this happen before? I try to hit my apostrophe button and it makes the cursor go all over the place! my keyboard is possessed...
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OK, I just looked at the ingredients on the sourdough bread I've been buying. It says "Ingredients: Supreme Hygluten Flour (wheat flour unbleached, *MALTED BARLEY FLOUR*, ascorbic acid, niacin, iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid),Water, Salt
Is malted barley flour a milk ingredient? I remember reading somewhere about malt being a no-no.
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I'm not sure, it doesn't sound like a milk product and it's not on the list. I haven't read anything about malt, if you find out different, let me know.
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so I went to the Jack in the Box website, and found this area for ingredient listing for allergies. Pretty cool, eh? updated as of 2/06 so I believe the new laws are in effect. Anyways, I was wondering if someone could cast an eye over the bun ingredients, it says "contains soy" at the bottom but all I could see was soy lecithin & soybean oil. Lecithin is alright for our purposes, as far as I'm aware..?
http://www.jackinthebox.com/ourfood/ingredients.php
Also, good news for those of you who like their tacos and can eat soy: the tacos only have wheat & soy listed as an allergy, guess they don't have any cheese in them!
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and darnit, BK buns have soy flour in them :(
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OK, maybe I could have been clever and done this all in one post! But here's my total findings:
In-n-Out: a plain hamburger w/o special sauce and french fries are OK. There is soy protein in the special sauce.
McDonalds: nothing is OK (but we already knew this, right?) there's milk protein in the fries and soy flour in the buns. I guess if you can eat soy, you could eat a plain hamburger.
Burger King: fries are ok, buns are not
Jack in the Box: a plain hamburger or Jumbo Jack are OK (the mayo is fine, just contains egg) and regular or curly fries are OK. They have soybean oil, but again that should be fine since it doesn't have soy protein
the good news is that all this is very easily accessible now from their websites, I know this is new because I remember trying to find this info before and couldn't and just gave up.
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LOL, I had to laugh about your taco without cheese comment being "good news"! Isn't eating a taco without cheese kinda like... oh, I don't know...going on vacation to a sunny destination and having it pour rain everyday you're there? ;D
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haha! Now that's my idea of a vacation!! No, have you had Jack in the Box's tacos before? they're so yummy! I never knew they didn't have cheese (not sure if I should be disturbed or delighted).
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Hey Regina, have you tried Rice Dream's frozen desserts? They have some chocolate covered rice dream bars that are expensive but a very yummy treat!
For bread, I found the best bread at a local bakery and also Trader Joes has many basic breads that are dairy-free. Health food stores seem to carry breads with more simple ingredients and they are less processed and better for you anyway.
I have been posting some dairy/soy-free recipes to another post on this forum. Please add your recipes there! Only dairy/soy-free please! I need to find some good dessert type recipes to add. My dh makes the coffee cake from the side of the Bisquick box with rice milk and d/s-f margarine and I can eat the whole thing in a day! :-[
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First post here -- my son (3 mo) may have milk protein intolerance.
Anyway, he never grew out of pooping with every feeding, and it's gotten pretty bad about a week ago. I finally realized that 3 months was too old to still be pooping with every feeding. Sometimes, esp at night, it feels like he needed to eat so that he can poop. So, a week ago he was up 3 times to eat (and poop), following a dream feeding (and pooping). So I had to change diaper at 9 PM, 12 AM, 3:30 AM, 5:30 AM, and he ate at 8 AM (and pooped).
At this point I began to suspect dairy and stopped eating it. I saw a big improvement right away.
I spoke to his pedi, and he said that 8-9 dirty diapers was not normal for his age and that it could be milk protein intolerance. He advised to go off dairy for two weeks, and then reintroduce and see what happens. Baby was always a frequent pooper, but I think I made it worse recently when I started drinking milk again.
In any case, he did not really have any symptons apart from frequent pooping. He's generally pretty happy and only fusses when he's tired. He spits up a lot but it's definitely not reflux and he's not bothered by it much. He did have greep poops that you guys mention, but I thought it was a normal variation in color (?). He does not have rashes.
It's a bummer because I love yogurt and it's a good source of protein, too. On the other hand, I'm already eating gluten free (I have gluten intolerance) and consuming very few processed foods, so it would be simply cutting out yogurt, cheese, and butter. It's not like I have to overhaul my whole diet, and I read labels all the time anyway.
The pooping situation continues to be much improved, yesterday last dirty diaper was at 1 PM, and he went for 14 hrs without pooping after that! I think it's contributing to him sleeping better at night.
Anyway, does this sound like MSPI to you? Should I ask my pedi to test him sooner? Also, how do I know that there's blood in the poop? I worry about the damage his intestines may have suffered while I was eating dairy. He's back to orange poops, so maybe the damage (if any) is pretty minimal?
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HELP! I have forgotten what NORMAL poops should look like! My 4 mo-old bf baby has 2-4 poops a day with 1-2 being blowouts while feeding. Here's the details: they are RUNNY(Look ike diarrhea and often leak up her back out of the diaper), often frothy, yellow, sweet-smelling, but not mucousy. She's never had a rash, and has consistently been gaining weight beautifully, even when she did have a little blood in her diaper. I've read that bf babies, as they get older have fewer and fewer poopy diapers. Should I be concerned about the frequency?
Also, I also accidentally ate cheese 3 days ago, with no obvious reaction. Could she be one of those that are intolerant to straight milk, but ok with cheese/yogurt? If so, what should I try first--I'm so scared to mess with her little tummy.
Lastly, I'm TOTALLY new to posting, etc. I have read all 17 pgs of MSPI posts and don't see anywhere else to post this, so just nudge me in the right direction if I'm off-track, please? Thanks so much. And thank you to all of you for your posts, I got a ton of good information and now I don't feel quite so alone in this. It's been really difficult because NO ONE in either family has any food allergies/intolerances and so they all kind of look at us like we're just being paranoid 1st time parents. It's so frustrating!! Anyway, thanks again. :)
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BTW, I LOVE Rice Dream bars-- SO YUMMY! But, I quit eating them because the GI specialist told me to stay away from ALL soy including soy lecithin. What have you guys experienced in regards to that? I saw a list of "safe" foods for MSPI, but many had either soy lecithin or soybean oil in them. ???
Lastly, I absolutely LOVE In-n-Out Burger. I used to work there when i was in high school, so I know more than I should-lol, but seriously did you know they do NOT have a freezer? Everything is shipped fresh several times a week! I love that about them. And if you're concerned about the buns you can order your burger "Protein style", which means they wrap your pattie in lettuce leaves an no bun. It's actually not bad-kind of like a burger salad, a bit messy though. Now... if we could just do something about their shakes...Ahhh how I MISS their shakes!!
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Many allergen babies and intolerant people do ok with soy lecithin and even some soy (vegetable) oil. So that is what is behind the list, there are just very few people that have to cut that out too. It's kinda trial and error.
As far as pooping, lol, I think it goes under the category of "every baby is different" and you have to go by what's normal for your child. 8-9 poopy diapers seems like too many for a bf 3 month old baby. The blood test is for hidden blood (too small to see with your eye) They just smear a little poop on a card and send it to the lab. Pretty easy! If your giving up yogurt/cheese/butter for two weeks seems to help with the pooping and baby seems happier, it may be a worthwhile sacrifice to do for a while.
2-4 poops doesn't seem unreal for a bf 4 month old, but I remember Max only pooping once every 4-5 days and it was killer blowout. So I think that is "every baby is different" Frothy yellow seems to remind me of what his diapers looked like before solids. If you want to try yogurt, try a serving and see how the poops go. Cheese will be a little harder on your tummy, depending on how long you've been dairy-free.
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Just wanted to post a little update. I drank soy milk on Monday morning and NO REACTION from Palmer! WOO HOO!!! I am praying that he has outgrown the soy intolerance. I ate tofu chili today, so that should be the clincher. If he tolerates it, then I am going to try giving HIM some soy next. Stacy, how long did you wait to actually give your children the offending food once they tolerated YOU eating it??
There is light at the end of the tunnel!
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Hiya Cassie! Maybe a couple weeks? Although none of us eat soy, but I did trial Grace once a month from 12-18 months with yogurt until she could tolerate it fine. Organic dairy has always been tolerated easier by my family for some reason. ???
Blech, tofu chili?? I have a great chili recipe I'm going to post on the mspi recipe post, just for you!
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KC456-- I think that *does* sound like a lot of poopy diapers for a breastfed baby. I can't remember the exact # of dipes, but at 2-months is when we found out about DS's intolerance and about a week after cutting out dairy we were down to 1 poop a day, sometimes every other day. My doctor thought it wasn't related, but I noticed if he seemed to be reacting to something the # of poopies would go up. Also, it would be several smaller poopy diapers as opposed to one big 'un (if he were reacting). So yes, I think it's related to MSPI, but I'd ask the doctor if they could do a test for blood in his stool, that would be the clincher for me.
DS never had any weight issues, he was always on the big side, and his fussiness was never extreme but I noticed he seemed happier after I cut out dairy. As far as potential damage, I don't know how you could tell, but it's just a matter of nipping it in the bud as soon as you find out. Some people never find out, depending on how astute their doctors are, until their kid starts eating dairy on their own. I think that's probably more common in babies who are growing fine and seem otherwise healthy. Oh, regarding the spitting up, I sorta think that my DS's spitting up was related to what I ate, but not sure if it happened to be developmentally coincidental or if it really had to do w/ cutting out the offending foods. Ya know? like maybe his stomach just matured or something. I remember always having to change his outfit or mine, and now I can't remember the last time I did (he's 7 months now).
Artistcoggin: the poops you describe sound normal in color/texture/smell. I think DS's smelled strongly of vinegar when he was reacting, and they were grass-green. Hopefully the # will decrease as the dairy clears out of both of your systems, but like Stacy said some babies just poop more often than others. I had friends whose babies pooped once a week, and the most mine ever cut down to was once every 2 days, more often daily. And yes, I just love In-n-Out! That's awesome to hear that they don't even have freezers, I knew their fries were good since you see them put the potatoes straight into that fries cutter. I'm sad about the special sauce but I compensate by adding pickles ;) I could eat there 2x a week! My DH sure wouldn't complain!
-regina
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The Tofu Chili is AWESOME! Even my husband will eat it, but I make it with meat too. Just as delish. So in 2-3 weeks I should try him on some soy yogurt? I am not as strong as you and am planning on weaning him at 12 months. I would feel better if I could give him a little soy formula as I don't think fruit/veges/meat and rice milk is going to cut it. Grains still make him very constipated.
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You could try soy milk, it may be cheaper than formula. Grace weaned at 12 months and did soy milk (silk, unsweetened so as not to get her hooked on vanilla) until 24 months. I know we did soy cheese with her and a little bit of soy yogurt before switching to cows. I don't want to get into a debate about soy, but I'd rather my kids not have it unless necessary. It is often recommended to infertile couples to give up soy (because of the hormone connection) when trying to conceive.
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Yes I have read that, but if I can't give him dairy I would like to have some other options. I would probably only use soy milk/formula before bedtime as he is still having some problems sleeping through the night. When he wakes up he is STARVING.. I don't think rice milk and fruit is going to cut it.
He was really crabby the next day after eating the Tofu Chili, but did fine after I drank the 8oz of soy milk. Isnt' that strange?? I am going to chalk it up to teething or a cold (which he does have). I am planning on giving him some soy yogurt in a few weeks.
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My ped told me that I have to give Milena soy formula (if I stop bfing) until age 2 as soy milk doesn't have enough nutrients in it (as long as she has her allergy). I would like to continue bfing when I go back to work, she'll be 13 mths old so I emailed Dr. Jack Newman and he said that there's no reason to introduce soy formula even though she can't have cow's milk products as long as I continue to bf even 2x a day. If they're eating a well balanced diet in all other areas and drinking some liquid (I give her water w/ her solids). What are your opinions on this? I'm not a fan of introducing soy formula if I don't have to but can't help wonder if bfing 2x is enough.
Cassie, could it have been the spices in the chili that made him crabby?
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I'm not sure about if it's enough, but most of the 1.5-2 year olds I know who still breastfeed really only get a full feeding in morning & night, and sorta "snack" sometimes during the day, but regularly it's only 2x a day. I personally hope to be able to bf til DS is 2, mainly due to the allergy/intolerance.
Here's a link to babycenter:
http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/baby/formulafeed/1334703.html#5
it talks about how much cows milk a baby that age would drink, 16-24 oz a day. I guess 2x of 8 oz would be the minimum requirement, do you think she's getting that much in one feeding? I hope you're able to make that work for you!
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When Max was 12 months, I know he was getting 6-8 oz per feeding, twice daily. I sometimes would pump midday and get 8 oz easy. If they are drinking rice milk or water with meals too, that seems like plenty of fluids.
Cassie, yep teething makes food introduction harder. Mine sometimes got nasty poops when teething too..
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I haven't got a clue how much she's getting when bfing. I have never pumped (aside from trying in the hospital when she was born). Maybe when the time comes I will try to add a cluster feed in the evening- bf as soon as I get home and then again before she goes to bed. She's drinking some water now after her meal, I just bought more rice milk for myself today so maybe I'll try her with some to see if she likes it.
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Personally I think soy milk after the age of one is fine. I was only thinking about doing the soy formula at night; however, after thinking about it I would probably just do soy milk.
It could have been the spices in the chili I guess. I didn't make it very spicey, but you just never know. I might try some soy milk (for me) again next week and see what happens.
Stacy.. I swear Palmer has been teething for the past 4 months. The kid has 3 teeth on the bottom with a 4th one coming in. Plus 4 teeth at varying stages of eruption on the top. UGH.
This strange and I need all your advice. I swear Palmer is reacting to the Gerber organic stage 1 peas. He does fine when I make him peas (I usually use organic). But when I give him the Gerber Organic ones he wakes up at night and does that tell tell swallowing thing he does when his reflux is acting up. It is so weird. It even happened last week when I gave him the mixed veggies that contained peas. But he is perfectly fine when he eats the peas that I make him. The ingredient label reads organic peas and water. He tolerates all the other Gerber organics fine. I am baffled.
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Well, Milla has been doing so well-I guess because I've been so careful what I eat, but I decided to experiment this week, so I had two bites of Apple Caramel cake from Costco and...Yay! No reaction. BUT 3 days later, my mom had saved a piece of carrot cake for me, so I tried it and ate a bit more. Guess what I totally forgot about?!? The frosting--CREAM CHEESE! Green poop that night! She got over it quickly enough, thanks goodness, but that same night she got her FIRST COLD. She had a temp and stuffy nose, but luckily the fever went down with some Tylenol and hasn't come back since. Her runny nose is just clear so far, so I was just wondering, could this be because she's teething? Because the same time the runny nose started, she started making these weird (but still cute-lol) faces--sticking out her tongue more than usual and moving her chin side to side, like she's rubbing her gums together. I've heard that teething brings on a range of symptoms. What have you all experienced?
Also, what can I use as a butter sub for my toast? Everything I've found has either soy or some form of dairy in it? And have any of you had success substituting coconut oil for butter/marg in baking?
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bummer about the carrot cake! If you want to challenge soy or dairy, it's usually more accurate if you try something closest to the 'purest' form. So soy beans (edamame) or tofu (soy milk has a lot of additives) for soy, or milk for dairy. Also, my doc said that dairy can take a while to clear both of your systems, 4-6 weeks sometimes, so even if you're being really good you might get a symptomatic diaper but it's just some old stuff flushing out. Also if you have frozen expressed breast milk you may want to toss it, since you probably had dairy/soy in your body when you pumped. I'm glad she's doing well!
with teething, my DS started getting really fussy on the breast. I attributed nearly everything to his MSPI at that point, so I thought "Oh no! he's in horrible gastric pain due to my 'tainted' milk!" I was really freaking out about it, he would pull off and not eat and I was getting engorged... well, one of my friends asked "is he teething?" I thought she was surely wrong, since like I said I thought it was all about MSPI. Well, I looked in his mouth and saw a tell-tale bulge on his lower gum just the size of 2 teeth. They cut the next week. But some babies stealth-teethe and you don't notice til you feel the sharp edges when nursing!
I don't know which part of the country you're in, I'm in California and Safeway has a brand of margarine called Nucoa which is MSP free. It has soy oil & lecithin I think, but those are fine since they're fats. It states right on there that there is no milk, and I didn't see dairy at all in the ingredients. Some have said Fleischmann's but I haven't seen that in any of my stores. I heard you can use Crisco for baking, haven't tried since I've used the Nucoa when I've made cookies. Just double check the butter-flavored one for casein or whey.
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Cassie, the pea thing is so strange! I would chalk it up to being a possible-milk-added food and just make him regular ones. How weird, but I will remember it. There are other brands of organic baby foods too, have you checked WF?
I always used Fleishmans for baking and a butter substitute. I don't like margarine, but since it is so short term, that is what I would use. Sometimes I would search and search at the grocery store reading every single label until I found one that was ok. I also use organic canola oil and sometimes applesauce for some baked goods. I would think coconut oil would really alter the taste and texture of recipes?
Teething can cause mucous diapers and runny noses, yes. Not usually green ones though, that is often foremilk balance issues.
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hey, Stacy I know you'd posted waaay at the beginning here that regular Oreo's were NOT ok, but mini's were. Well, I just looked at the ingredient list on regulars : http://www.nabiscoworld.com/Brands/ProductInformation.aspx?BrandKey=oreo&Site=1&Product=4400000820
Can you tell me which ingredient indicates milk or soy? I thought possibly vanillin, but looked it up online and from what I can tell it's just a synthetic form of vanilla, nothing indicated that soy or milk are usually used in the making of it. I appreciate it!
Oh, here's my continued update on Fast Food:
Taco Bell: the ONLY MSP free item is a bean burrito, with NO SAUCE. Not even rice. Can you believe there's soy in their taco sauce? I was so sad (and not soy lecithin either). Of course you can add lettuce & tomato to jazz it up a little, so it's not just beans in a tortilla. Everyone, please feel free to double check me though!
Del Taco: the only MSP free items were a plain hamburger and fries. Everything else had soy powder, soy protein, milk, yadda yadda. Even the "steak". I didn't check out the tortillas, because I'd asked about all the fillings first (beans, chicken, ground beef, steak) and I was like why would I just get a tortilla with nothing in it?! haha...
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It's great to see so much interaction on the MSPI board!
Just wanted to share that we ended up taking Carter to the Allergist this week after a hives episode at his 6 month check (so thankful that's where we were!) anyway come to find out he is allergic to milk and egg! I had been nursing him and cutting out all dairy, soy and beef since he was 3 wks (dairy) and around 6 wks (soy, beef) and hadn't tried to eliminate egg. Needless to say it was nice to discover why he was still having symptoms (mainly bad eczema in spots). Still not sure why the hives at the dr, but timing was good as we were planning to do a flu shot (which contains egg and should not be given to him). We ended up trying Alimentum for the past 10 days and he is finally clearing up completely and diapers are back to normal. We've decided to leave him on this for a while, then try soy formula since his soy test came back 0. He was a 2 for dairy and a 3 for egg. They use a 0-6 scale, so his allergies were on the lower end and the Allergist was fairly confident he would outgrow them quickly. I'm just glad we can finally start solids with a "normal" to work with. We're starting with fruits as he reacted to squash and sweet potatoes, however these both tested 0 as well.
Just wanted to share my experience with all of you. I am very sad to be done bf but feel it's best for the both of us. I'm very glad to have a better understanding to start when it's time for #2!
artistcoggin - I was using Smart Balance Light as a spreadable butter replacement. Make sure it's the light,
as regular smart balance has dairy.
Steph
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Quick note on the toast- try apple butter (no butter is actually in it), yummy! If I have bread with a meal instead of butter I dip in oil and balsamic vinegar. BTW, make sure to check your bread as lots of breads contain some form of milk.
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May I ask your ladies' professional opinions? :) (insert wave to Marian)
I've suspected Savannah has allergy to milk protein ~ as a newborn she had eczema and colic. At 9-1/2 months old she has yet to sleep through the night. She gets up and sometimes it's obvious she's in pain (I've always explained it with teething or being overtired) but she's usually fairly easy to get back to sleep. Naps are absolutely wonderful.
The lack of nighttime sleep has been getting to me though so I'm eliminating dairy from my diet to see if there is an improvement. I've got the 'major' stuff cut out but I think little things are slipping by. Last night and tonight have been horrible with nightwakings. She wakes up screaming, trying to climb out of my arms. Absolutely nothing will calm her; she has to collapse from exhaustion. Her voice is hoarse from all the crying. :(
Does this sound like a reaction to dairy? Is it possible to go this long bf her with no detailed attention to cutting out dairy and then have this happen?
Thanks. :)
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Stargrl - I thought the regular Oreo's were the ok ones? Now I am confused too. The only suspect thing on that list for me is "chocolate" I can ask at another forum, there is a mom with a kiddo who is truly Allergic (not intolerant) to like 16 things and Oreos are on her safe list, amazingly.
If you have a restaurant called Chipolte, you should check them out. I used to eat their vegetarian burrito (no cheese, sour cream) and it is full of guac and yummy. I haven't checked their ingredients for a while.
I thought the 7 layer burrito (what I ate tonight, yum) from Taco Bell was ok. The rice has soy in it? What a crock! I think I am going to get a bumper sticker that says "Soy SUCKS!" We need to start a revolution.
FWIW to very last poster, my kiddos both had AWFUL sleep issues at 9.5 months. Don't know what it was, but at 10 months my first started sleeping all night and at 11 months my second called back down to one night waking. I am not the sleep expert but I know many of our night wakings were teeth related and also physical milestone related (waking up because of tingly legs from getting ready to crawl/pull up/walk)
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I love CHIPOTLE veggie burritos with guac!! ;)
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yumm. Chipotle. I just e-mailed them to see if their steak & chicken are ok. I just wish they'd take mercy on a poor soul who can't eat the cheese/sour cream that is a standard on their burritos, and give me free guac. I've tried but the person behind the counter just doesn't see my logic. "If you want to ADD guac, you can pay an extra $1.50!"--helpfully. Me: "oh. I see. But you see, I can't have the sour cream and cheese, so..." Person behind counter stares at me with a blank expression until I pass down the assembly line... ;)
Stacy, here's the link to what caused the oreo confusion in the first place:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66236.0
it's about 3/4 down the page. I'm hoping they're fine, it's so nice to get a ready-made cookie when you're out & about.
-regina
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Well then, I guess you're saying it's my fault? ;) :-* I'll edit my other post. Hey if anyone finds fault in that list or some ingredients have changed, please pm me so I can change it!
Here is what my good allergic friend says:
"Regular Oreos are dairy-free, EVEN THOUGH some of them say "Kosher-D" which usually indicates either dairy or x-contam. Years ago their manufacturing process changed, but they didn't want to bother having the product recertified (pay for rabbinical supervision) so the "D" remains (only in SOME regions-- Oreos are manufactured in at least 2 different places. Only one has the D.) But they're definitely dairy-free.
Now, why anyone would WANT to eat those disgusting cardboard pieces of crap with caulk in the middle remains another mystery"
I'm sorry, but I had to add in her last line. I know that Oreos aren't that great for me, but I do occasionally eat them because they are yummy! (like at the zoo this week) I bake most of my cookies and sweet breads now so I know exactly what's in them and because we are avoiding most hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup.
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Ami, can you take her to get checked? Don't know how they check in the US but here they take a stool sample and look for microscopic (if not visable) blood. That will determine if milk protein allergy (not a test for lactose intol). I can't remember if I mentioned to you but on the allergy thread pull up the MSPI list from mousesmom, it lists all the "hidden" or unfamiliar names as well as the obvious milk related products. BTW, the under the skin test that allergists will classically perform will not necessarily test positively for milk protein allergy, so don't bother with that type of checking.
Oh, gotta go, my mini monkey is suddenly restless!
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"SOY SUCKS!!" I love it! Maybe that could be a fundraiser for the site? I'd buy a couple! :D
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Thanks for all the marg alternative ideas. At this point, I'm supposed to stay away from aLL dairy & soy, even the fats, oil & lecithin. I've been doing this for almost 2 months. The carrot cake was a bad idea, I know, but it was a moment of weakness and a "brain fart" I think- ;). Anyway, I also read that there is a Kosher margarine (Mother's brand, I think) that is both dairy and soy free, but I've yet to find it. I live in Central California, and actually my local Raley's is REALLY good about ordering new items for their Health Food section, so I've put in a request, and I'm waiting...
Btw if anyone is interested, I do have a recipe for Soy/Dairy free marg, I just haven't had the time to try it. I'm part of a yahoo group called FASTERS and someone posted it there, and they all say it's pretty good.
1 cup soy-free shortening (Spectrum has a brand that (at this time) is 100% palm oil)
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon safe artificial butter flavor (add an extra 1/8 teaspoon for a stronger taste) (Read ingredients carefully and find a brand that is suitable for you/your child. Some contain real butter--so make sure you know what the ingredient names mean!)
3 drops yellow food coloring (optional)
1/8 teaspoon xanthan gum
Melt shortening in the microwave until it is just liquefied. This will take about one minute.
Pour the melted shortening into the blender, and add all ingredients. Whirl ingredients in the blender for a while, thoroughly blending together. The mixture will take on a frothy appearance.
Pour liquefied margarine into a margarine tub or other small container, and place it in the fridge. It will take a while for it to harden.
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wow, staying away from soybean oil & lecithin is super hard! bummer. Let me know how the homemade stuff turns out!
Stacy, tell your friend that desperate times call for desperate measures :P Someone else was giving me grief for eating a fruit roll-up and I said HEY! there's not a lot of treats I can buy at the store, leave me alone! My DH has also been less than overjoyed at my garlic breath now that I eat hummus with everything. However, all it took was me giving him the spiel of all the things he can enjoy that I cannot, all for the health of his son (I mean, our child ;D ) and he was quick to hush.
that said, you're absolutely right, I need to start *baking* more so I have MSP free stash on hand that I can take out with me. I got the MSPI guidebook, thanks so much for that link! The recipes are awesome, and I liked her tip about bringing her own hamburger buns/bread when she went out and doing the quick switcheroo. I reallly, reallllly like that idea because I hate going to moderately decent restaurants and feeling like all I can eat is a grilled chicken breast with a baked potato on the side, being able to eat sandwiches/burgers would open up my options.
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A lot of times I will bake a double batch of cookies and toss at least half in the freezer. I double my bread recipes too and freeze the second loaf.
I'm going to remember the bun trick for next spring. Like I told you in PM, I'll definately be going dairy-free again when this baby is born.
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Well, I haven't gotten around to making the dairy/soy free margarine yet, but I made some Vegan brownies today-OMG!! SO YUMMY!! I haven't had chocolate in 3 months, so it really hit the spot! My husband is veru much used to his regular diet and he couldn't tell they were dairy/soy free. They're really gooey! Let me know if you want the recipe and I'll post it.
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Yay! It's finally back up!!
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Yes, if the vegan brownie recipe is milk/soy free, will you post it in the other thread in this forum, MSPI recipes? It sounds yummy. I am headed back to dairy free land already, not tolerating it well with pregnancy. :P
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Ok, I think I posted it properly. Here's the link:
MSPI Vegan Brownieshttps://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=76114.new#new
The ONLY problem with this recipe is that it left me with a SEVERE craving for a glass of cold milk! Lol!
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Hi ladies,
I haven't posted on this thread in ages since we've been doing really well on solids for the past several months. Last week we went into hospital for dd's milk challenge just to rule out that she didn't have any immediate reaction to dairy. She passed it without any issues and the dietician recommended that we slowly begin introducing dairy into her diet to see if any intestinal reaction then presented. We were advised to introduce half a pot of Petit Filous per day and told that any reaction should present within 48-72 hours.
We had no reaction for 5 days and then DD vomited at dinner last night. As a precaution, I eliminated dairy today. She had no appetite at all today, including her afternoon bottle, and she didn't touch her dinner. She refused her bedtime bottle as well, then took an ounce and promptly vomited all over the both of us tonight. My gut is telling me that it's actually a stomach bug rather than a reaction to dairy as her poop has remained fairly consistent since we started challenging her.
Just curious if anyone else who's done a challenge can share their thoughts. Our dietician works part-time and I figured I'd get a quicker response here than I would try to get ahold of her ;D ;D
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I agree, it sounds like a stomach bug. Try to keep fluids in her and slowly intro gentle foods (no dairy) until she is herself again. I would try the dairy again a week or two after her tummy is feeling better. Intestinal/stomach 'bugs' can really cause havok, and you want her gut to heal before trying milk again.
Most intolerances will present themselves within 72 hrs, but I have heard of them being as slow as a week. My sister's baby did great for 5 days on milk and then broke out in hives and a rash that didn't go away until the milk was cut back out again.
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Hayleysmum, we're doing the milk challenge in the morning on the day of dd's first birthday. I'm a bit confused though. The infant allergist we go to had an appointment booked for us in February but I'm impatient and didn't want to wait so they fit us in earlier. We had 2 forms to go get blood work, 1 pre-challenge and 1 post challenge. We got the first blood work done 2 weeks ago but then I called the allergist as I was confused on what to do for the challenge. He gave me huge crap on the phone and told me not to dare give her milk products prior to her first birthday, he then told me to bring her in for the challenge which is a 4 hour appointment :o. He's going to give her milk by teaspoon every half hour and watch for reactions. I tried to explain to him that her reactions (which started when she was 3 weeks old) was lots of blood in her stool and severe crying/screaming (I was eating lots of cheese back then and bfing). I'm concerned because I don't expect her to have any visable reaction immediately following the milk, if there is going to be a reaction I would think it would be the blood again in her stool but that wouldn't show up within the 4 hours. What did your challenge consist of? Did you also have to do blood work?
So, confession time...
I've been dilligent following the no milk product diet for almost 11 months and am still bfing dd 4-5x a day. Last week we went on an all inclusive vacation in Cuba and I had a breakdown. On the last day there, following the buffet for lunch, I, without any control whatsoever, gobbled up 4 cookies and 2 pieces of cake which contained loads of both probably butter and milk. I was in utter heaven and clearly pig-like, wouldn't be surprised if people were staring at me as I drooled and barely chewed the junk before swallowing it. I was like a recovering cocaine addict sitting in front of a table of drugs, all bugged eyed over the desert and nervous that dh was going to catch me. Following the 2.5 minutes of gorging I was filled with utter guilt as I had plunked dd in a high chair next to me and she watched, naive to my crime. I even lied to dh, told him I was going back to the buffet to get a bottle of water, but I knew in the back of my mind what actions were going to take place once I got there. It's been 2 days and no reaction in dd's poo but, from what I know, it takes a while to build up the intestine irritation to the point of bleeding. I won't be doing that again! Thanks for letting me confess and getting that off my chest!
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Hi First Time Mom,
We didn't do any blood work but yes - our challenge was exactly the same. Swabbed milk on the inside of her lips - wait 30 minutes. Gave her a teaspoon of milk - wait 30 minutes. Then 30 ml, 100ml and 200ml and wait 1 hour post challenge.
I asked the staff doctor (the gastro specialist never showed his face...) why we were doing such a challenge when her reaction was not allergic and she really couldn't give me an answer.
Then, the dietician arrived after we'd done the 30ml test and asked me what we were doing! :-\ she said that the challenge was completely pointless for MFPI children and she couldn't understand why it had been booked for us... ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We didn't bother doing the 200 ml but still ended up being there close to 4 hours.
Her advice was to slowly introduce dairy - starting with half a pot of yoghurt per day - and watch for any changes within 72 hours (consistency of stool, vomitting, crankiness, etc/). She did say that the blood in stool typically only presents in young babies and that we wouldn't be likely to see any at this age (DD is 11 months). If there were no visible reactions, she recommended increasing the amount every 5-6 days.
If I were you, I wouldn't spend 4 hours in an allergist's office - especially as the kids are strapped to various monitors during the test and confined to a hospital bed. Most 11 month olds don't quite get what it means to sit still!
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oops - hit post before I was done...
thanks GraceKellysmom - she's still got no appetite today so I'm positive it's a bug (talk about horrible timing!). It's pretty easy to stay dairy free at the moment - she's not interested in any food ;D but we'll take your advice and wait a week or so once this bug has cleared before we trial it again.
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Too late, we just got back from our 4 hour milk challenge!
The allergist explained things more to me today, he said he was watching for reactions (skin rash, etc.) but nothing would probably show up. He said to continue giving her milk every day, small amounts and to watch for reaction. He explained that in protein allergies the typical reaction is blood in the stool (which she had when she was young) and that since it wouldn't necessarily show up visable to the eye we do the blood work again in one month, they check for various things including the level of protein and do a comparison to the original blood work we had done 2 weeks ago when she was milk free.
Yippy yippy yay!!!!! This means I can now have cheescake, cheese, pizza, butter, and every other forbidden food as of today!!!!!!!!!
Well, gotta go, I'm on my way first to Starbucks to have a real coffee drink (decaf of course due to bfing) made with real milk and a desert! May even have a piece of cheese later! I'm going to take it slow first, just in case but at least now we can have some of dd's birthday cake this Saturday during her party.
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Marian!!
Congrats!!! ;D You did it!! That is so awesome and inspiring!! Enjoy all that yummy food!! Happy first Birthday Milena!!
Steph
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Bummer, it's been about 8 hours since Milena was given her cow's milk and she had a runny stool. Wish I could blame it on something new she ate but not so, it has to be from the milk. I am supposed to continue giving her the milk products for a month and then go for the blood work but I am afraid to now, I think a runny bm is enough to say that the allergy is still there, thoughts? I think I'll totally lay off any milk products for both of us for the next day or two and see how her stool is, then try one more day to see again. Oh well, at least she got to taste milk and I got to have a coffee with milk and desert today. Aside from the bm she had no other changes, no bloating, fussing, nothing so that's good.
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Aw, shucks. Take it slow and you know best, not the allergist. If you think she's reacting, I agree, take her off and try again for confirmation.
Hope the coffee/dessert sits good with you. I'm having a heck of a time tolerating dairy again, myself.
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Coffee and desert sat fine with me but then I only put about 5 drops of milk in the coffee. I could see having a problem when I eventually eat cheese again, I would think it would sit heavy in my stomach, I can't imagine ever eating the amounts I ate in the past.
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Hi ladies!!
I tried a trial of soy yogurt with Palmer twice in the past 2 weeks, but both times he started getting really crabby and his sleep decreased (shorter naps and waking up alot earlier) after the second day. He did have a cold at the time so I am trying to convince myself that was it instead of soy intolerance. I am way to scared to even try dairy.
I am going to try again after the Thanksgiving as we are going out of town. However I have been able to have some soy without seeing any change in his behavior. I had a soy mocha this morning, so I guess we will see how tomorrow goes.
On a brighter note, I have weaned Palmer down to morning and night only. I am going to drop the morning feeding after Thanksgiving and hopefully have him weaned entirely by Christmas. He is drinking rice milk fine, so I ordered some rice protein to put in his sippy cup after I wean him to make sure he gets enough protein.
I was so hopeful that he would tolerate the soy. Hopefully the next trial will go better.
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Hi Marian,
Did she consume the same amount of milk as my LO did in her challenge? We had a total of 130ml which is a fair amount of milk to have on their first go after a dairy free life! It could just be a shock to her little system or it could be that the intolerance is still there. I think you're right to eliminate it for a couple of days and wait for BM to return to normal. And then start over with very small amounts - a couple spoonfuls of yoghurt per day and see what happens.
Good luck!
We are still suffering through this gastro bug and DD is refusing to eat and drink (with good reason as it seems she vomits everytime she has anything...) It may be a while before we can resume our dairy challenge...
Steph
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Hello,
My daugher cannot tolerate soy or milk. When she was a couple months old, she had unpleasant reactions when I fed her a bottle of soy formula, then later a bottle of milk formula. I called her pediatrician when it happened and was advised not to feed her any more formula. That was the extent of her diagnosis. Later, when she was five months old and we were still struggling I stumbled onto this website and read this entire thread. I had no clue that if I stopped eating milk and soy while I was BFing, my lo's symptoms would completely go away. So I started the mspi diet right away. Things have been going perfectly ever since.
At lo's 1 year well-baby, I asked about weaning options. All of a sudden her ped wants to get her officially tested and diagnosed. She is sending us to an allergist. I'm nervous, just because I know she has such negative reactions. Her most recent reaction was to a trial of milk products her ped requested I give, just last week.
On one side I'm relieved to be getting an official diagnosis, but on the other hand, we've made it this far without one and I already know what I need to know: keep her milk and soy free!
Any opinions?
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Steph, I don't know how much she actually took as we used a cup and she dribbled so much out, we then used a syringe so in total for the morning she had maybe 6 full syringes, it did seem like a lot to me. Never even occured to me that it might have been too much for an initial start! She had one loose bm tonight and that was with no milk today. I'm going to wait until her bm's firm up and then I'm going to give her plain yogurt to try, it'll be easier on her than milk I think. Hopefully it will be within a few days.
Cassie, I noticed Palmer is around Milena's age, I'm bfing 4x a day because I was worried about the calcium, not the protein, does Palmer eat enough meats? How are you getting the calcium into him? I bought a soy milk that's calcium enriched (Milena is fine when I have soy), it has sodium in it, should I be concerned with this? She has zero salt in her diet because I make all her foods.
Ashti, I would go ahead and get her tested as long as they are doing it properly (not just the skin prick test as this is not valid for a protein allergy). They do supposedly get over the allergy after the first year so it wouldn't hurt to check. What was her reaction to the milk products you gave last week?
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Marian- My daughter's ped told me to try milk. I was really skeptical, but the ped insisted, saying I didn't know for sure she was allergic to milk unless I tried her on milk. She said that her reacting to milk based formulas didn't count. I boiled the milk first to try to break down some of the proteins. I fed her a tiny bit, LESS than 5cc's. She went down for her nap and when she woke up, she was covered in a rash. Her next poopy diaper was super runny and smelt like it was straight acid. I am just nervous about the allergy testing, because I don't know what kind of testing they will do yet.
Cassie-My lo's ped and gi doc will not let me give my lo rice milk. Not even for lunch in a sippy instead of water. I really think I should be able to. Did you have any problems getting an ok from your lo's ped? I would love to present the idea to them again, but this time with supporting evidence of why it would work well for my daughter. Although, she refuses to drink it. ;) Not that I'm admitting I tried it against her ped's advise. Hehe.
Also, today was a 1 nap day for my lo. She is still just a year, but has started to refuse to take 2 naps. Well, she will only nurse after she wakes up, so usually at 7am, 11am, and 4pm. But when she only takes 1 nap a day, I can't get her to nurse more than twice, at 7am and 3pm. It just worries me that I'm not getting enough calcium in her. Especially since her ped won't let me feed her calcium enriched rice milk in a sippy. ::) Ok, I'm done dwelling on the rice milk now. I know there are other forms of calcium, like in leafy greens. I'm meeting with a nutritionist soon to help me learn more about how to get calcium rich foods into my lo's diet. If you all have any ideas on calcium rich foods, and ways to get a toddler to eat them, please share.
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Hi Marian & Ashti,
My LO is the same age as well - just coming up to her 1st birthday in a couple of weeks. We've been on a liquid calcium supplement prescribed by our GP for several months now as there's no way she's getting enough through her diet alone. I'm suprised that your ped hasn't suggested the same thing?
The best sources of calcium are tinned salmon (vs fresh because they include the calcified bones in the tinned variety), sardines, watercress (I add it to mashed potatoes which disguises the strong flavour), spinach, kale, etc. I'm lucky because my LO loves salmon so she's happy to eat it several times per week. I also give her the calcium fortified orange juice for breakfast (watered down).
Ashti - I wouldn't worry about the allergy test. Best to have them see her reaction first hand. The immediate rash (vs eczema) doesn't really seem consistent from what I've seen of MSPI or MFPI so I'm wondering if it's something else that's triggering the rash?
You can also use Neocate formula as an alternative to milk (that's what we use) - it's corn-based and specifically designed for MSPI/MFPI children. I don't think that rice milk is very nutritional (which may be why your ped doesn't advise it).
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Steph- Thanks for the advice on the calcium. That's good to know about salmon. I haven't tried lo on fish yet, but it sounds like it might be a good idea to try for the protein and calcium.
She has eczema too. It's always there, no matter what I do. But the rash she gets when she eats milk is very different. It's similar to a rash a person would get if they took an antibiotic they were allergic too. It's usually all over her body, but heaviest on her trunk. I am certain it's the milk, because the first incidence was when she a was a baby, and wasn't eating any other foods. And the reaction comes fairly quickly after she eats the milk.
I'm agreeing with you that the skin rash isn't a usual MSPI reaction. She hasn't ever been diagnosed as MSPI. If I had to guess, based on my own research, I would say she has a true allergy to milk. That's just a guess though. The reactions she has to soy seem all gi based, so that seems like an intolerance to me.
I just got the referral to the allergist today, so I'll call and see how long I have to wait to get her in for a consultation. I hope not too long, I'd like to get it done soon.
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My pedi is aware that I am giving Palmer rice milk; however, I didn't really discuss it with her first because I am a registered dietitian. I figure I probably know more than she does in this particular area (and she agrees... hahaha). ;D
I have no idea why giving rice milk to a child close to or over a year would be a problem as long as the child was eating solid foods well. As far a calcium goes, 8oz of enriched rice milk provides 30% of an ADULT'S calcium needs. Palmer nurses twice and gets 8-9oz of enriched rice milk/day. That should be enough to meet his needs. Plus what is really the other option? I have tried Neocate/Elecare... P refuses to drink it because honestly it tastes nasty. I really need to wean him for my own sanity. I don't think he is quite ready for soy (lets hope he tolerates it better soon!). So rice or some other (oat, potato) milk are my only choices. Check out this thread ... RICE MILK. Hopefully it will set your mind at ease!
I have used rice milk with many of my allergic/intolerant patients without problems. Just my 2 cents of course. You should definitely clear it with your pedi.
I got the rice protein in the mail today. I am going to try it tomorrow. Hope he does ok with it. Yes, Palmer does eat some meat. What I am mostly concerned about is the night time bottle. I don't know that rice milk alone will be enough to hold him throughout the night. So I would like to add some rice protein and maybe some Flax oil. I also have a liquid vitamin I am going to start giving him.
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Hello-
Are any of your MSPI babies allergic to other proteins too? I am starting to see a lot of reactions in my dd that I didn't notice before. I'm seeing eczema flare-ups on the days I feed her meat. I don't feed her meat everyday, because I don't eat meat everyday, but she eats beans everyday and does fine with those. On the days I feed her meat, her eczema flares up within a few hours. Tonight she was so red and itchy all over. Poor thing.
Hope you are all doing well.
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Hi Ashti,
When DD was born she was diagnosed with MFPI (multiple food protein intolerance) as she was extremely sensitive to my breastmilk eventhough I eliminated heaps of things from my diet including dairy, soy, wheat and egg. In the end, we had to give her Neocate as I couldn't get rid of the blood in her poop from changes to my diet alone. Our gastro told us that children are typically intolerant along a continuum of foods listed below in order of those most likely to trigger a reaction. Most kids with MFPI are only affected by milk and soy (hence MSPI):
1. Milk
2. Soy
3. Wheat
4. Eggs (egg whites because that contains the protein)
5. Fish (in particular white fish & shellfish, oily fish like salmon are less likely to invoke a reaction)
6. Nuts
7. Legumes
My understanding of MFPI is that the problem is with the body's ability to break down protein. The protein structure in milk (and soy which is almost identical to milk) is complex and contains numerous fractions. This presumably makes it harder for the body to break down the protein and hence why they are the top triggers for MFPI. I think that meat, on the other hand, is not very fragmented and is easier to digest.
So while I wouldn't rule out the possibility of your DD having MFPI, I'm wondering if there's something other than protein intolerance that's the root cause?
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Well I have some good news! I have slowly added back some cheese and milk products into my diet and dd is not reacting, today is also day 2 of giving her plain yogurt (4 tablespoons today) and her poop tonight was normal! How can her poop have been runny for 3 days from intaking milk last week but fine with yogurt and from me taking in milk products again? Does this make sense? I do plan on continuing the yogurt and increasing the amounts each day, then trying cheese maybe at the end of the week, then milk again the week after.
I am surprised to hear of the doctor suggesting calcium supplements for the lo. Both doctors, the hospital, and the allergist never suggested this to me even after I expressed my concerns about calcium! I guess it's too late now, I hope she got enough in the past from the calcium added in her cereal and from bfing (I took a supplement). Funny how I've always worried about this though, I know this sounds dumb but she only has 2 teeth at 12 months and I've even wondered if her teeth weren't popping out because of not enought calcium! Can't say I have complained about the lack of teeth though, it sure has made bfing easier!
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Good news!! Maybe she just needed to adjust :)
Hope it continues to go well for you!
Steph
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Marian - great news!
Looks like our DD is still intolerant as she's increased the frequency of BMs in the past week since resuming dairy. They range from "normal" (for her) to watery to mucousy and they stink like nobody's business!. She's also developed a nasty nappy rash which she's never had before.
So we're now back to observing a dairy free diet and I guess will re-challenge in a couple of months. It's definitely an improvement from birth though as she hasn't developed any eczema or hasn't been vomitting so I'm guessing she's nearly outgrown it.
I do have a couple of questions:
1. Has anyone's LO been ok on goat's milk products but still intolerant to cow's milk?
2. Likewise, I know that soy intolerance usually goes hand in hand with cow's milk intolerance but I'm wondering what percentage of kids tolerate soy?
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My dd was able to have soy but not goat's milk, I had soy all along with no reaction but the one time I tried goat's milk cheese she had watery stool and blood.
How did you introduce the dairy to her? I had started with the milk during the milk challenge but then she got runny bm so I stopped after the first day. I waited 3 days for her stool to get normal and then I gave her a tiny amount of plain yogurt, she was fine with it, I continued the plain yogurt for about 5 days then started with cheese, yesterday I started the milk again and she was fine this time around. We had our 12 month appt with the ped the other day and she said that she wasn't surprised about dd's bm from the milk because dd had gone 11 months w/o any dairy at all so it's their enzymes breaking down the lactose giving the problem that resulted in loose bm, not necessarily the protein allergy since she was fine with the yogurt and cheese. Maybe wait a week or so for her bm to get back to normal, then introduce a small amount of plain yogurt to try.
I have now introduced most dairy back into my diet! I've had cheese and products made from milk, I still haven't had actual milk as I'm suddenly really turned off by the smell of milk and can't imagine having even a drop in my cereal or coffee. I was never a big fan of milk but now I actually hate it!
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After her tummy bug cleared (at least I'm assuming it was a tummy bug) we started with small amounts of dairy. Half a pot of Petit Filous yoghurt with her cereal and then trace amounts of butter in my cooking. We stuck with the same amount for a week because I figured the same thing about her not having had any dairy for nearly a year. The stools have varied and by the end of the week she was pooping at least 4 times a day and a couple were super mucousy. Her nappy rash is so bad, she screams whenever I try to wipe her bum...
After I posted last night, she vomited all over her cot an hour or so after she went to bed and continued with dry heaves for an hour or so. There was a teaspoon of soy sauce in the salmon burgers that I made for dinner last night so I'm guessing that could have been the culprit eventhough it would have been such a small amount given what she actually ate. It's so hard to know! I haven't officially challenged her on soy but I also haven't been diligent about it and she's likely had trace amounts of soy in bread, etc. which certainly hasn't triggered any major reaction.
Will speak to the dietician for advice this week as we don't see the gastro until the middle of January. It's so disappointing as it's birthday party season now and she can't have any cake :( (which at the end of the day, probably isn't such a bad thing...)
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That's unfortunate about her reaction, it does sound like she can't tolerate the milk quite yet if she's reacting like this with yogurt and butter. I know what you mean about the birthday cake, I really wanted my dd to have a taste of her birthday cake the day of her party, I ended up giving her a very tiny piece to try (it was day 3 after her milk related runny bm), I probably shouldn't have but I did. You're right, it's not a bad thing that she can't have cake, it's us moms that want them to taste cake, not them, they don't know what they're missing and there's lots of time when they're older to eat cake!
I would try to stay away from soy sauce (if it's the normal soy sauce) as it's very high in salt, I would instead start with small amounts of soy milk when testing her on soy, was there anything else in the burgers that she could have reacted to or do you think for sure it was the soy?
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There was less than one teaspoon of soy sauce across the entire batch (it made 8 patties and she ate 1/2 of one) so it would have been a very little amount. Likewise, I only use reduced sodium soy sauce as I'm particularly sodium sensitive myself and rarely use any salt in cooking.
I'm not 100% certain it was the soy sauce but she's eaten everything else in the burger (ginger, coriander, garlic, bread crumbs, egg and salmon) before without any issue.
I made a trial vegan birthday cake tonight with orange juice and it wasn't all that bad (at least according to my DH). My attempt at the vegan frosting on the other hand, didn't go so well and has just ended up down the drain... Her birthday is this coming Wednesday but the joint birthday party we're having with friends isn't until the 10th so I figure I've got a bit of time to get it right ;D I said that I'd make the cake so that I know that Hayley can have some!
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Well Palmer is weaned! WOO HOO for me!!! I just finished a Starbuck's peppermint mocha and it was yummy!
Palmer is getting rice milk fortified with rice protein and flax oil twice a day. I plan on trialing soy yogurt again next week.
Miran - that is awesome that your lo is tolerating things so much better now! I hope Palmer gets to that point soon.
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Looks like I am officially part of the MSPI group now. My lo is 15.5 months old and never could tolerate milk. At first he was super constipated, then it became loose, then diahrerra and then mucus and very larget stinky poo's. We trailed Soy (which I was nervous about because he showed (+) to the allergy test at 9 mos, but just showed (-) at 15 mos.). Anyhow we trailed soy and it was actually worse.
So we are now on Rice milk. What Rice protien do you add? The one I bought was MLO Brown Rice Protein and it smells awful. I made Zach a cup of it tonight with 1 tablespoon and 8 oz. of milk and some strawberry nesquick and it smelled awful. I thought I was going to throw up.
He took a few sips, but you could tell he was not sure about it.
Are there any better tasting rice proteins?
Thanks, Wendy
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Wendy - if the rice protein tastes/smells bad and is complicating things, I'd just do plain rice milk (maybe with flax oil blended in) and focus on getting protein in another way.
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Thankyou for posting that list! I'm starving and don't know what do eat now I do!!
I was told to stop breastfeeding and put her on formula (2$ a feed) She won't take a bottle and I don't really want her to anyway. So now that I know what I can eat and some good alternatives I feel so much better. There are some things on that list that I would never have thought of myself!
What about CALCIUM DISODIUM EDTA is this ok?
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Well Zach liked the Rice Milk. He has drank 2 cups of it today alrady (with the nasty protein in it). Maybe it is just me and I think it taste bad.
This is SO much easier than I thought :-)
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I got Pillsbury Cresent Rolls and Cornbread Twirls today (by the biscuits). The ingredients DO NOT list any milk or soy (well soybean oil), but that is it.
Why would the cresent rolls not have milk in it, but the biscuits do?
Do anyone of you use Pillsbury?
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For the poster re: soy sauce. Doesn't soy sauce have MSG in it? That is one of my worst offenders, soy sauce.
For the poster re: calcium disodium, I think that is ok.
Cassie, that is great about Palmer! How are you doing emotionally with weaning? I was a big cry baby for weeks when Max weaned, I wasn't ready. Are you handling the dairy/soy ok, digestively?
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I got Pillsbury Cresent Rolls and Cornbread Twirls today (by the biscuits). The ingredients DO NOT list any milk or soy (well soybean oil), but that is it.
Why would the cresent rolls not have milk in it, but the biscuits do?
Do anyone of you use Pillsbury?
biscuits have mega butter in them that's how they get them layery.
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I guess I will call the company and double check. The biscuits do list butter, but not the cresent rolls
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Please share their responce?
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Someone said that Cool Whip is Ok (no milk) can anyone second that (having tried it)?
I'm just starting out on this journey through 'no milk land' with my LO. Still gathering all info that I can.
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I am sure even the dairy free Cool Whip has derivatives in it...I think I was disappointed about this discovery back in my vegan days, but maybe it has recently changed.
I found this and thought it might be helpful http://www.kjsl.net/~beanmom/nomilk.html
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Hi all! It's been a while since I've been on here - hope you are all doing well! I was just curious when other MSPI babies were able to tolerate rice cereal. DS is 9 months and the drs. have been telling me to wait (I haven't talked to them in a month or so though), but he is so hungry all the time, I need to find something else to feed him! Let me know if you can!
Thanks,
Steph :)
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Just jumping in on the Cool Whip thing--it's lactose free, but still has milk protein.
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Hi All,
I wonder if you guys can help. My 4.5month old son is fabulous and in good health - EXCEPT - in the night he wakes time and time again. He starts writhing in pain whilst still sleeping and if I give him his dummy he can sometimes pass wind and then settle. It begins again about half an hour/an hour later and it all begins again. Sometimes if he cant get the wind out of his bottom, he cries so much he ends up awake.
I've tried EVERYTHING, down to putting him on Neacate and Neutramigen incase its an intolerance, but he REFUSES to drink them and spits them everywhere and ends up starving. I don't blame him, they taste awful compared to the milk he usually eats.
I've tried waiting till he's ravenous, but he just will not eat it.
Anyway, my question is, is this milk/soy intolerance or if that was the case, would he be sick too?
Sorry so long, but I am at the end of my tether here!
Thanks for reading!
Amanda
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Steph, I had Milena on rice cereal from 6 months, I used one with no milk (from what I remember when reading labels, the Nestle one DOES have milk), I used water to mix it with as I bf but never pumped. She had no problem with the rice cereal, had a rash/reaction with the brown rice and the oatmeal rice but was able to eat both at 9 months.
Amanda, have you ever tried Oval drops? When my dd was super young she had the typical problems with gas and I found these helped. I'm not sure about lactose intolerance as my dd's was a full blown protein allergy (she always had severe pain and blood in her diaper). How is he in the daytime with his formula? What are his poops like? Usually the protein allergy results in bleeding intestines, abdominal pain, irregular and mucousy poops and intollerances result in poops that are not regular, excess gas, and sometimes rash or even excema.
Milena update- she's doing well with one container of plain yogurt a day and about an ounce of cheese. We were up to 12 oz of whole milk per day but she had loose and stinky poop that looked like her food going in. Have taken her off the milk and retried each week. I'm thinking she's over her "allergy" because she can now handle cheese and yogurt and I'm eating EVERYTHING with milk again and she is not reacting and has had no blood in her diaper. I'm now wondering if she's developed a lactose intolerance which, if she has, I'm not too worried about, it's so much better that the full blown protein allergy!
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Hi Marian.
Thanks for the info... I got some organic rice cereal - I think I'll go ahead and try it.
Glad to hear things are going well for Milena - good to hear of things getting better in time!
Steph
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Amanda-
I'm sorry to hear your lo is having such trouble. I agree with Marian that if it were milk intolerance you'd see other symptoms besides gas and wind. Does he have diarrhea or bloody or mucousy stools? How is his skin? Does he have a lot of congestion? I hope you find the reason he is suffering soon.
Well, we had our allergy test done yesterday. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Dd did so well. I was so proud of her. She tested allergic to milk, nuts, and eggs. So now eggs and nuts are out of my diet too. She was still intolerant to soy at 10 months (now 13 months). The allergist wants her on soy formula, since she didn't test allergic to it. ??? I'm thinking this is one of those times where I should just ignore his advice and trust my instincts that she is still intolerant. Dh wants to try it, see if she is still intolerant. I'm just not sure what to do.
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ashti: I WOULD GO WITH YOUR INSTINCT!!!! TRUST ME!!!
My 16 month old tested (+) on the skin prick test at 9 months, so we always avoided soy. We realized later that he was intolerant, not allergic to milk.
So before trying rice milk, we had him tested again. This time is was a blood test and it was (-) to soy. So we took our doctors advice and did the soy milk. BIG MISTAKE!!!
Things were worse with the soy than the milk.
Like your husband, he wanted to try it though. Go with your instincts. A mother always knows best...
Good Luck.
P.S: If you need advive on Rice milk, that is what we are doing now. 8 oz. of enriched rice milk mixed with 2 oz. of cocunut milk (for the fat) and MLO Rice Protein (for the protein). I also mix a tablespoon of strawberry nesquick for the flavor. He loves it.
Wendy
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Amanda
Mine started with a full torso skin rash then with the windy restless nights then bloody stool. If your LO has no rash she may just be gassy if she has a rash also you may want to keep an eye out for blood in her diaper check close every time you change her and make sure if anyone elts is changing her that they are on the look out.
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Just wanted to add about the bloody stool, the hospital told me that in some cases the blood in the stool may be microscopic so, not visable to the naked eye, that's why they recommend testing the stool for blood. In my dd's case the blood was very visable.
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hi, just wondering if there is a certain age that kids can get MSPI or outgrow it if they already have it. I'm having alot of trouble with DD aged 3 I have recently received blood test back ruling out all environmental things for causing eczema but I kind of knew it wasnt environmental, I have always been very weary of dairy because thats her main diet is based on dairy, she drinks alot of cows milk and eats alot of yogurts, custards and cheeses... She has been constipated on and off alot since birth, she couldnt tolerate most formulas and was on cows milk at an early age but had to go to soy, she has alot of trouble going to the toilet, I have now put her back to soy milk, could she be MSPI?
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Rebecca247, I'm sorry hon, I don't understand completely. Is it the constipation or the skin problems that are making you wonder?
Yes, at 3, she could be having reactions to either milk or soy. If you eliminate milk completely for a few weeks, and are on soy, and she still has excema, I would ask the doctor for a food allergy test. You could also consider what soap/shampoo/laundry detergent you are using on her. I know that some excema can't be healed, but some can, and I'd rather omit the offender than cover it up with meds or creams.
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;)Hi Sorry for not making myself clear, it's abit of both thats worrying me, at the moment her skin is actually pretty clear but she is now having alot of constipation problems, the awful thing is she is finding it easier to go in her knickers instead if the toilet and when she actually does go she does really big ones!!! (sorry to gross anyone out)....She cries alot complaining about a sore bottom. She has been back on the soy milk now for 2 days and i'm having alot of trouble with her because she doesnt like it, and cries for cows milk. I really dont know what else to do for her. Here in Australia we have a few different varieties of special KIDS milk so I might check whats in them. Does anyone know? She also drinks alot of water so that really should help her out toilet wise but it doesnt..... Sorry again, hope that clears it up for you! Bek :)
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I just found this thread. :) I didn't know it existed. ::)
Abby has a MSPI and reflux and is on Neocate. Abby's pedi GI tested her stool for blood and it was negative. But she was crying during feedings so we tried the switch from Nutramigen and it made all the difference.
My older dd, Jackie, has a milk allergy that causes constipation and she has been on Miralax since she was 2. My middle dd, Payton, I also suspect is allergic to milk b/c she has issues with milk also but not as bad as Jackie. Her pedi has started her on Miralax b/c we are trying potty training again and she is refusing to poop on the potty.
Jackie's allergy dr said that the #1 sign on a milk allergy is constipation. So she now takes desensitization drops for her milk, soy and wheat allergies. I also limit her milk intake and give her a vitamin with extra calcium in it. Payton also loves the Minute Maid Kids Orange Juice that has extra calcium in it. I have an appt to take Jackie to a dermatologist next month b/c her face has little pimples on her cheeks. She used to also get them on the backs of her arms. I am sure this is related to some allergy. Not sure if it the milk or not. But now that she is in Kindergarden she is more self conscious about it. :-[
I don't know how long Abby will have to be on the Neocate for. She has been on it since she was 4.5 months old. We finally got our insurance company to cover 80% of it and now Dh's company is looking at changing providers. I don't know what we will do if the new one won't cover it. It costs $390/month! :o
Wendy- That is interesting about he rice milk/coconut milk/strawberry Nesquick. Have you been doing this since the switch at 1yr?
Bek- I could never get Jackie to drink soy milk. It is very hard to switch to something new when they are older and used to what they like.
Andrea
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Bek, how is it going today, any better? Yeah, the milk products can constipate them pretty bad. You can try dried fruit (esp raisins, cranberries, apricots) and also other fiber like oatmeal to help soften her poops up. Poor girl! Offer her water several times a day too.
I am pretty anti-soy, being intolerant myself, so Max got rice milk. Goats milk is another option, some kids do ok and some don't.
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I am a mom who flavors milk too, in the beginning, to get them to drink it. In the US, we can buy soy milk "sweetened" in vanilla or chocolate flavors. You may try a more gradual approach with mixing, part cows milk part soy. Not appropriate for allergy kids but for suspected intolerances, it is worth a try.
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What do you ladies make of this...
Dd was allergic to any milk products I ate when bfing, at 6 weeks she had blood in her stool and screamed/cried 24/7 until we figured out the problem. I eliminated ALL milk products. At 12 mths she was given a "milk challenge" at the allergist, she had loose stool that night. My ped said to continue trying as it can take her system a while to get used to the milk. It has been a month now. She now eats one container of plain high fat yogurt each and about an ounce of cheese, I bf her still 3x, she eats all other foods. Every time I try whole milk (about 4 oz) she ends up with very loose stool so I stop until she system clears up yet she continues with the yogurt and cheese with no problem. A friend told me to try 2%. I was hesitant to try as it's not enough fat but it's better than just water and she does get the yogurt, cheese, and bfs. We are on day 3 of 2% cow's milk and no loose poops. Do you think she's over her allergy? If she wasn't, she wouldn't tolerate the yogurt and cheese, no? Should I continue the 2% for now, increasing the quantity over time, then later try the switch again to whole milk?
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I have no idea what to make of that. :-\ It is funny b/c like I said before I always limit both my girls milk intake. While one time I bought 2% milk b/c it was on sale. I always buy 1% milk. Well Payton for some reason started getting constipated (this was before she was on Miralax). Everything in her diet had been the same. No bananas, no extra cheese etc. The only difference with the 2% milk. I really think this caused it. Have no idea why, but I don't buy it any more.
Andrea
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Hi everyone, she's still been the same, but she will not have a bar of the soy milk, and I think she does need to have some milk because she really enjoys it and i feel like a bad mother for still giving hewr cows milk but we have been increasing her fibre intake and she always drinks alot of water, I was thinking about the Rice milk, does it have a better taste then soy milk or the same? I treid flavouring the soy milk but she new straight away that it wasnt the same.
It's so hard and I feel so cruel because she loves milk, yoghurts, cheeses and all that kind of stuff. We also live in a small country town in outback australia and it's extrememy hard to find substitutes here like you can in the cities. i'm just glad i have this website i can come and get some comfort and support. Thanks Guys and happy New Year to you all!!!!!
Love Bek :)
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Bek, it is a lot harder when they are older. I still remember trying to switch my dd to cows milk after being on soy milk. She freaked out on me at first, but eventually started drinking a little more. The one thing I will say is that they don't *need* milk of any kind. Drinking water is just fine. You'll just need to increase her calcium in other areas. Are you able to get calcium fortified juice, and will she eat dark green veggies that have calcium in them? Rice milk is ok, very watery and better as a sub in cooking and on cereal. They do make it flavored and you can get it enriched with as much calcium as cows milk. You could try ordering it on the internet, it doesn't have to stay cold until opened. Shipping would be pricey.
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FTM, I would stay on the 2% if she is tolerating it ok. Don't worry so much about the fat content, she's getting plenty of fat from the yogurt and cheese. You can also try different brands of milk, and especially organic or milk that is from cows that aren't treated with hormones and antibiotics, those are often easier to tolerate for most people. I personally would think the stool issues would be the other way around, because the fat content would make things pass through quicker/looser. Kind of like if you eat a really rich cheesecake or whole milk ice cream.
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Stacy, how much yogurt and cheese should I be giving her? She currently has 1.5 containers of high fat plain yogurt and about an ounce of cheese, she's also bf 3x though I think she doesn't take too much, her 2% milk is 8 ounces. I'm always nervous about her getting enough fat, she gains weight so slowly (was 17.5 pounds at 12.5 months) I'm also worried about her getting enough vitamins/nutrients, I bought the multi vitamin drops that I think I'm going to start giving her. I do have to say she has a good appetite and eats a very well balanced diet, I make everything for her but it's the milk I'm always worried about. Does the milk have anything that's not in the yogurt and cheese? I think vitamin A and D are not present in the y and c? I may try the organic cow's milk, supposedly it's illegal in Canada to treat the milking cows with hormones (reason we "can" give it at 9 months) but I don't know if I believe this.
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Grace was a slow gainer too, didn't hit 20 lbs until 17 months. At almost 4, she still only weighs 33 lbs, but that is perfect for her, she's just a petite child. (I have two tiny sisters, so it runs in my family) Her doctor really pushed me to try to get her more fat in her diet, but I had to listen to my mommy instinct too which said she was getting enough. She slept well, played hard, and learned well and exceeded her milestones.
If your dd is still nursing 3x per day and getting that much yogurt and cheese, I would think that is plenty on top of a good solids diet. The thing about 1 yr olds too is that they start refusing food - oh is that fun - not! They get so darn picky. So get her veggies and meats into her while you can. At 13 months old, Grace had stopped nursing (I was 24 weeks pregnant), and she at three meals and two snacks per day. So if your dd is eating 3 meals per day and 3 nursings, that seems perfect. As long as your dd nurses, I probably wouldn't bother with vitamin drops, she is still getting plenty of what she needs from you. Unless your ped tests for iron and it is low, I wouldn't bother with iron drops either. They get so much food that is iron fortified, cereals and grains.
I don't have any yogurt in the house right now, so I can't check for vitamin content. I'll try to remember to look when I go to the store later.
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Thanks Stacy. I'm not overly concerned about her weight, both dh and I are tall but small boned and thin, as a child I gained very slowly, meals were always a fight and I don't want a repeat with her so I just let her eat what she wants, I don't make it "fun" to make her eat more or tell her she's a "good girl" if she finishes, I just feed her and stop when she stops. At this point she eats great, 3 meals, 2 snacks, and 3 light bfs, she loves everything! I'm not worried about her iron as she eats full serving of cereal and eats red meats and veggies with iron. My yogurt doesn't list additional vitamin A or D like the milk has so I may as my ped about the drops next time I go.
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She may get plenty of vitamin A from the foods she eats. Does she like carrots, sweet potatoes, apricots, oranges, tomatoes, squash, melons, and most of the green veggies? You even get vit A from meat.
Vit D is trickier. Sunlight is one of the best ways. Fish oil supplements are another way, try asking in the lounge because Deb, Josiesmom, does fish oil and so do some others.
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Wow, I guess she's getting lots of vitamin A, she loves everything you listed! I'm not too worried about the D right now I guess, the nanny takes her out everyday to the park swings and for a walk and we've been lucky to get sun here and decent weather which is not the norm this time of year.
Funny you mentioned earlier about them getting picky after age 1, dd spit out cottage cheese today and wouldn't eat her dinner of baby pasta/beef/veggies which she has loved in the past! This is the first time she has snubbed food, I had to come up with alternatives!
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So I have been giving Palmer a few tablespoons of yogurt in his cereal for the past week. He has been crabby, but he has had an cold awful cold (everyone in this house had it) and is getting a molar. He has been sleeping fine. Today he only took a 1 hour nap and then threw up (not alot, but a substanial amount) twice this afternoon. His stools are fine. Do you think it is the yogurt? Or just a fluke?
I am so frustrated with his eating. He will eat most things if I mash it, put it on a spoon and feed it to him. But he will only pick up crackers, cereal, bread and turkey lunchmeat. Duncan was finger feeding almost everything by this time. He is already so limited with not being able to have milk or soy. UGH!
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Cassie, I would hold off the yogurt until he's totally over the cold just to be sure and then try again in a few days. My ped did tell me to keep trying the milk with Milena as she said it takes their systems a while to get used to the cow's milk products since they've been without for so long. In our case it has been 1.5 months of trying milk, she would get loose stool, I would stop for few days-week and retry again, only now can she handle 2% milk. In terms of ffs, all babies are different, some los on my thread ate nothing but ffs after 10 months, Milena will now eat a variety but still likes her mush, a friend's baby at 12 mths will not go near food if it has any texture.
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Hi everyone,
You are just the group of people that I've been looking for. My son Logan is 9 month and has MSPI, lactose intolerace and oat intolerance. We tried BF, Soy (3 brands), HA Formula (Nutramigen & Alimentum), Lactose Formula and now he's on Lactose-free 2% milk. This current milk is the the first one that he will take without fighting so I really don't want to change milks again but he is still constipated. Has anyone managed their LO's MSPI successfully without them being on a HA formula? Our ped keeps pushing for us to switch but we tried between months 4 & 5 and he had the worse month ever because he just down right refused to drink it so I don't want to try again.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Carla
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Hi Carla-
I know what you are going through. We had tried everything with Abby and finely changed to Neocate at 4.5 months. We have had great luck with it. It is amino acid based and is pricey but we got our insurance to cover 80% of it. It is well worth the cost though. This is really the only thing that has worked for us. But the Neocate can be constipating so she takes Lacutlose also.
Andrea
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Andrea
Thanks for the reply. It's so frustrating that we can't find a solution. The constipation is our biggest problem which we have tried to solve with fruits and that didn't help. He can't have Lactulose because the lactose in it makes him miserable. I've read so much info about poop and such more so then I ever thought I'd want to know.
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What about Miralax? My other two dd's are on this. Constipation is a BIg problem in our house.
Andrea
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The HA formulas are actually not good for MSPI babies, and most pediatrician's don't understand that, and also they are getting pushed by the formula companies to push them on you. Both the ones you mentioned still contain milk proteins, I don't care how the "break them down" but they are still in there. I am shocked that your baby can tolerate regular ol' cows milk, lactose-free or not, because that still has milk-protein too.
Is your ped doing any stool samples?
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Hi, I am ready to wean my soon to be 12 month old son. In the last 4 days I have introduced cow's milk to him, and so far things seem good. I am wondering how long before I up how much I give him (currently he is getting 2 oz in the am). Also, what other reactions can I look for, if there are any? When he was 3 months old he had fussiness, sleep disturbances, and green mucousy poops ~ along with belly pain. I am wondering what are other signs of an intolerance that he may still have it? And anyone else do a milk trial, and can share some tips? Thanks in advance.
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Hi Beata3, my dd's allergist did a milk trial when she was 12 months and she had loose stool. Both he and her ped said to keep trying as it takes their systems a while to get used to any milk products because they have gone their entire lives without. I quickly gave up on the milk immediately once she had the very loose stools. I then tried a plain, high fat yogurt and she was fine with that, following the yogurt I tried her on cheese and she was fine. I tried the whole cow's milk every 7 days or so and she would get loose stool. Last week I tried 2% and she was fine with it so we have been on 2%. In one day she is now getting 7oz of 2% (4oz is in her cereal), 1 container of plain yogurt, and 1oz of cheese, she's also still bf 3x. When we were trying the milk I started with very small amounts, same with the yogurt and cheese. This week I plan to increase her milk to see what she can handle, btw, she is almost 14 months old. If he is showing no reaction I would probably up the amount to 4oz, then 6-8, and so on. Have you done any cheese or yogurt?
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Hi, thanks FTM :) Yes, we have tried yogurt, and he seems to do fine with it. We tried the yogurt for about 4 days, and he had no (visible) reactions. We have not tried cheese. The reason for that is that his pedi said that even if he does fine with yogurt and cheese does not mean that he will be able to tolerate milk. And that if we try cheese, and if he has a reaction, it doesn't always mean that it would be the milk, but maybe something else in the cheese, whereas with milk we would know without a doubt ~ so, that made sense to me in the bigger picture (although I have read to start with yogurt and then cheese, and then milk). but because I really want to get ready to wean, I followed his advice. But, have decided to take it slow. So far, he does not have loose stools (which I also read is the more common reaction, as well as fussiness)... actually he seems a little constipated the last few days.
I really really really hope that he is able to tolerate the cow's milk. I also have/am trying to introduce rice milk, but he is refusing it. And he (as of right now) seems to take to the cow's milk. When you first tried cow's milk ~ how much did you do, and for how long before seeing a reaction? I know all kids are different, but I just want to get a gage of how "optimistic" I should see this :) We've been giving him the 2 oz for the last few days (about 3 or 4) so I don't want to get too excited, but...
Thanks for responding ~ greatly appreciated! :)
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We went to the allergist to do what they call a "milk challenge" test. He gave dd 2 tbsps of milk at each hour, we were there for over 4 hours and nothing happened so he told us to give her a few ounces of milk each day and to build up. By the same evening she had 3 very loose stools so we stopped the milk for 3 days for her system to clear up and then we tried the yogurt. I think if he has had the milk for a few days with no reaction he should be fine, just keep it slow for now, add a few ounces every few days. In very young los with the actual milk protein allergy (vs intolerance) they usually have blood in their stools (my dd did from about age 6weeks) as their intestines get very irritated.
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Beata3: I give my 17 mo old Rice Milk. The ONLY way I can get him to drink it is by adding Nezquick Strawberry powder to it. It does add sugar, but I have had both my Ped and his Nutrionist suggest that.
If you DO have to go to all Rice Milk, make SURE you are adding extra fat and protein into his diet.
I add 2 oz. of Cocunut milk to 8 oz. of Rice milk and 1 tablespoon of brown rice protein powder and of course 1 tablespoon of strawberry nesquick. He LOVES it and drinks about 3 to 4 cups a day.
Good Luck with it all.....
Wendy
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We introduced cow's milk to my 12 month old son about 3 weeks ago. We have been giving him small amounts, started with 1 oz and increasing it slowly. He is at 3 oz now. He developed this redness on his butt; it doesn't seem to bother him or hurt, as he does not react when being wiped or washed there. I know that this may be a sign of an intolerance. He has also been eating more fruit lately as finger fruits, along with the jarred baby foods. As finger foods he has been given peaches, nectarines, pears, apples, cherries, and over the last several days he's had some split pea soup. The redness has been increasing over the last week. It does disappear a good amount as the day progresses, and it always appears worst in the morning when he wakes up.
So, I am not sure if the redness is from maybe all the fruit he is eating or from the milk. So, should I cut out the fruit (especially the peaches, nectarines) or should I cut out the milk? He's had the redness on and off before we ever introduced dairy ~ so this isn't the 1st time we have encountered this. And he is not showing any other reactions (such as fussiness, diarrhea, vomiting, mucous, etc.). I don't want to cause him any discomfort, but because he is not showing any other signs I am wondering if I should continue with the cow's milk, but eliminate the fruits and see if things improve. I can't imagine that if it was an intolerance to the milk, that at this point he wouldn't be showing other signs, but maybe I am wrong?!
Anyone else ever encounter the redness (like a ring) around the anus? And have it be from too much fruit, or certain fruit? (None of these fruits are new to him, he has gotten them in trials before and has done well)... so I wonder if it is just an overabundance of them?
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If he's having loads of fruit it maybe from that, especially the peaches, nectarines, and cherries. I would cut back on the fruit first to see if it makes a difference, even just stick with pears, apples, bananas, see if it makes a difference after a few days before cutting the milk.
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A ring around the anus is a sign of an intolerance, BUT I would think he would be showing other signs as well. I would not cut out the whole milk just yet.
I agree with FTM, I would cut out the fruit and stick with the basic fruits. A lot of times the acid in the fruits can make the butt red.
I really hope your lo can tolerate whole milk, sounds like he can so far!
Good Luck! Wendy
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Hi, was wondering if I could get some advice ;)
MY DD is 3½ months and is MSPI. I had to work this out for myself as the docs just said she had colic and then after examining her on my insistance diagnosed fissures but never told me this is a sympton of a protein allergy!!
Anyway since going on an elimination diet when she was bout 2 months old I worked out the problem and told my HV and she suggested that I try and introduce milk back into my diet at 3 months. I decided this was way too early but was thinking about trying just before 6 months but I was wondering is it likely she will have grown out of it so young? I don't want to cause her any unnecessary discomfort. I am quite worried about being able to keep up the BF, I think I have a period on the way and feel like my milk supply is going down a little, I used to be able to pump 10-12oz a day but I am struggling to get 8oz at the mo'. I know this is still quite a lot but my DH feeds her in the evening whilst I work so I need to pump a minimum of 8oz a day. I have tried her on the Nutramigen and she screamed the house down! Please advise me, I'm feeling quite worried about it all at the moment. Thanks!
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My first doctor said the same thing to me, that my dd was colicy and that she had fissures. It was only after I changed to a ped who sent us to the hospital for testing that her milk allergy was even considered.
I am surprised that they suggested trying milk at 3 months. Both my ped and allergist said to stay clear until at least 12 months as usually babies get over the allergy AFTER one year. If you're doing fine on the milk free diet I would stick with it. Milk supply would not be impacted by your reduction of milk products in your diet. When I first got my period back dd was 8 months old and she fussed to the point I thought I had nothing, I increased her feeds for a few days (to help with supply) and all was fine after that. Since 10-11 months I no longer notice a difference bfing during my period, she no longer fusses. I never pumped (got nothing out in the beginning so never bothered continuing) but 8 oz sounds fantastic to me! Not sure what time you work, but could you do cluster bfs before leaving for work? They adapt to bfs- I went back to work when dd was 13 months, we used to bf 7am, 11am, 7:15pm, now we bf 7am, 6pm, 7:15pm.
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Thank you for your reply! Yes I think I will wait for a year, I don't want at upset her at all. I have started power pumping (Iread about it on this site) and am managing to pump extra before bed now. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it, Katt :)
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If you have to supplement with formula you will probably have to find one without any milk proteins in it. Nutramigen still has milk proteins in it. Abby is on Neocate but you have to get this through a pharmacy or directly from the company. I don't know where you are located at but I am in the US, not sure if it is available in UK or not but I think you can get it in Canada.
Andrea
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Hi, my 12 month old son was milk intolerant when first born. I breastfed and eliminated dairy from my diet. In the beginning of January we introduced cow's milk into his diet (milk, cheese, yogurt). We did so slowly (started with 1 oz and increased every few days). He is now getting 4 oz of cow's milk in the morning, and about 2 oz of cow's milk and 2 oz of bm in the afternoon (I am still breastfeeding at night/overnight). He doesn't have any of the symptoms that he had previously (he had BAD mucousy poops). But he is more gassy now (which may be from other foods), and he has had some small strings of mucous in some of his diapers (but not all). So, I am wondering if this is a sign that he still cannot tolerate cow's milk, or if this is just a coincidence? He has had infrequent bouts of straining to poop, but he has had that off and on since starting solids, so I am not sure that the 2 are necessarily connected.
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beata3: I am curcious to what everyone else says. My son derft. could not handle Milk or Soy. He had very bad diaherra and muscous poops. We switched to Rice milk and his poops cleared up. NOW, if he has cheese, etc. he gets really stinky gas, but his poops are fine. If anything he strains a little to go to the bathroom.
I am wondering the same thing!
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Craziness! Hear I thought I was faithfully following the Dr.Sears Elimination Diet, and thanks to a past post, thought to check my supplements! Sure enough, my Viactive Calcium Chews (duh!) have milk and my Ultra Natalcare Prenatal Vitamins have a lactose product in it! Can anyone recommend a milk/soy free multivitamin good for breastfeeding mothers? Oh! And a margarine that is milk/soy free too?
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Heather,
As long as your lo can tolerate soy oil and lecithin, Nucoa margarine is milk and soy protein free. I have found it in Safeway and Nob Hill Foods. As far as the TED, I don't think margarine is added until later in the food testing stage. For that I think it's safer to use olive oil.
I'm sure you are doing just fine following the new diet. Don't worry about not thinking of your vitamins. It's so hard to think of everything at first. I hope you get this all sorted out soon, so your lo can be happy and healthy. Good luck with everything!
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Well... my guess is he may not be... today I tried the PrimaCare ONE pre-natal vitamin (took it round 9 a.m.) and he fussed at the breast terribly (for the first time in a LONG time) at his 6:30 p.m. feed. Here are the "inactive" ingredients... D&C Red No. 33, ethylvanillin, FD&C Blue No. 1, gelatin, glycerine, hydrogenated vegetable oil, lecithin, methylparaben, propylparaben, soybean oil, titanium dioxide, vegetable shortening, and yellow beeswax. Is that too soon for the soybean oil and lecithin to affect him? Is vegetable oil a concern too? Is fussing at the breast even a symptom of an allergy/intolerance?
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Heather,
What are his other symptoms? I don't remember dd being a fussy feeder. Her symptoms were g/i based, such as vomiting, diarrhea, and watery, green mucousy stools. She also had skin symptoms, such as hives, rashes and eczema. And she didn't sleep, and had colic.
So, the fussy feeding could be an allergy, sure, maybe, but it could also be gas or reflux, or something else. My advice is to keep a food diary. Log what you eat, when, and any reactions you notice in ds, such as sleep, crying, g/i, skin, or respiratory. Diaries help you see patterns from foods you've eaten and reactions they cause.
Hang in there. :)
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Yup... his symptoms, had been vomiting, diarrhea, and watery, green mucousy stools along with the red ring rash around the anus. Doesn't sleep much (usually not for more than an hour and is a silent refluxer all night long.) BUT... otherwise has always had a pretty good tempramnet. (Not colicky). And since I've been on the Dr.Sears Elimination Diet for the past 7 days I can safely say the vitamin was the ONLY change. :( And he's usually not a fussy feeder, but all of a sudden was... which is why I was worried.
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Heather-
Yup, it sounds like he may have a protein allergy problem, to me. Maybe the fussy feeding was just a flare up of his reflux. If it were me, I would cut out the dairy and soy for a few weeks to see if that helped. It takes some time for it to completely clear your system. If that doesn't help, then you could do the TED or else just eliminate other foods that may also be a problem. Start your food and symptom diary and keep track.
Good luck! ;)
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I wanted to let you lovely ladies know that I am officially retiring myself from this thread. I know that there are many hands here and knowledgable people, who will continue to help new moms find their way. Best of luck!
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Curious of experience w/ bf moms and the sleep habits of infants (mine now just 5 mos) BEFORE and AFTER elimination of MSPI. Trying to see if there is a correlation.
This thread has been such a labor of love for so many of us and our LOs. Thank you!!
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Wonder why some LO can tolerate Nutramigen and others can't.
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fitfamily, in our case my dd went from crying all night until 4:30 am prior to her milk protein allergy diagnosis to sleeping peacefully at a normal time after we found out and I eliminated milk products from my diet. Her stools took 2 weeks for the blood to stop but the change in her sleep was immediate, mind you she was only 6 weeks old at the time.
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Thank you so much for taking the time to post the details about MSPI and listing what you can eat and not eat. I have been dealing with my lo going through stomach problems for last 6 months now. I tried the elimination diet and think it's the dairy so I stopped it and she is little better. The doctor keeps saying that she is just a gassy baby and wrote me off as paranoid but I can't watch my baby in pain all the time and not be able to sleep and enjoy. When she is not in pain, she is a very happy baby.
I have to go back to work so I tried starting her on formula and hates the taste of Nutrimagen and Alimentum. We also tried Gentlease which she didn't seem to mind. I mix it with breast milk since she won't drink the formula otherwise. However, recently, the severity of the problem has increase and she wakes up almost every hour with pain at night. The doctor wants me to start her on solids and teach her to sleep for at least 6 hours at night.
BTW, any suggestions vegetarians on dairy free diet?
I am having hard time setting her routine during the day because she is so cranky and fussy. All I can give her is breast milk which is not substantial enough so she keeps waking up every 2 hours for feeding at night. Did you find that MSPI made it difficult to put the baby on a routine? Any suggestions?
Thank you again for taking the time to collect information and post it.
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lostmom, sorry to hear you're having a tough time. I can't answer about the formula as dd is bf but I'm sure someone else can. As for a routine with MSPI, I found our routine was great once we eliminated the culprit (milk), before that my dd was up until 4:30am every night screaming when she was younger. Could there be a chance you are eating something different that has milk products in it? I know with my dd, she had blood in her stool whenever I did, she was very sensitive- couldn't tolerate ANY milk product (I went a year without eating bread, only pita bread, had to read every label).
Have you started the solids yet? Just make sure if you start the cereal you read the boxes, many have milk or formula added. I made dd's cereal with water (I was never able to pump) and I made all her food just to be sure there was no milk added. Solids won't help with the nws, unless she's actually hungry, even then it's a while before solids are well established as at first it's only to get them used to taste and texture.
I'm not vegetarian but I'm not a huge meat fan, I eat lots of beans and legumes and peanut butter myself for protein, I'm sure you also eat tofu, I hate tofu but my dd (16 mths) likes it mixed in with other things (she often turns her nose up at meat). Oh, there's also eggs, which I can't tolerate the smell of cooking, lol, but dd loves.
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If it were me, I would keep on pushing the Alimentum. I would try a little bit at a time mixed with breast milk and then slowly increase it. I would also cut all dairy and soy out of my diet while breastfeeding. So many lo's (my son included) could not handle dairy or soy.
You would be suprised the stuff that soy is in. Almost all breads have either dairy or soy flour in it. I did find an Iltatian bread that was safe.
If she is having a problem with the dairy, then the gentelease is not going to help her.
Last bit of advice: DO NOT EVER LET THE DOCTOR CONVINCE YOU THAT IT IS SOMETHING ELSE.. JUST GAS.... A MOTHER KNOWS BEST. I went through the same thing for months with my son. I also kept saying he had all the symptoms of reflux. I had to switch doctors before someone took me seriously and not just saying that I had the new mommy syndrome.
Good Luck, I feel for you because I have been there.
Wendy
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LostMOm, My lo did have problem with routine until I addressed his MSPI (8days ago). He is sooo much better with a routine. I read every label. I also tried 1oz. Alimentum yesterday and he spit up a tiny bit with his burps. He also had a few red bumps on his groin. That made me think he might not tolerate Alimentum or nutramigen. I'm not sure, if this is the case, but I can hardly pump anything. I need to give my babysitter a bottle next week because I have to be out for a few hours 3x next week. I am thinking that I will have to get neocate.
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Hi Ladies! :D
It has been awhile since I have posted. Abby is MSPI and has reflux. She is still on Prevacid and Neocate. Every once in awhile I have been giving her some butter and other things that have small amounts of soy in them, just to see how she handles them. She hasen't had any problems with it so far. Well her GI suggested that we try some yogurt around her 1st birthday. I want to try soy first b/c I am more leary with trying cow's milk since my other kids are allergic to it. So yesterday we tried 2 spoonfuls of soy yogurt! :D So far she hasn't had any problems! ;D So I am wondering, will it take awhile before I would see any problems, ie. does it have to build up in her system? Or if she was going to have issues with it would I see it right away? What have you ladies experienced?
Andrea
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When I intro'd milk to Grace, she would immediately show symptoms, within a couple days. Runny poops, not sleeping well, diaper rash. Once she tolerated it ok, no signs after exposure.
Now, my sister has a baby who is milk intolerant only. Her signs are excema, that's it. She loves milk stuff but the skin issues say there is something going on, no rash/dry skin when she's milk-free. So watch for other symptoms like that too, with prolonged exposure.
I'm milk-soy free again. Lots of more options this time, living in a big city. Thankfully, other people are realizing soy isn't the miracle food it's made out to be and more manufacturers and bakeries are not using it anymore!
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Haven't posted in a while but have a few questions which I wouldn't mind getting feedback on.
Andrea - to answer your question - I think it depends on the child but once they get past a year, trace/small amounts are usually (not always) fine. I'd slowly increase the amount you give Abby and as Stacy said, the reaction should show up pretty quickly. Hayley had outgrown her intolerance to soy by the time she hit a year but is/was still intolerant to cow's milk.
I recently challenged Hayley on cow's milk yoghurt and we immediately returned to runny/stinky poos - I cut it out again and we're back to normal. But Casey - this may answer your question, Hayley seems to be perfectly fine eating stuff that contains milk products and she also seems to tolerate cheese and butter. But I think the best way to approach it would be to cut everything out for a month which should allow sufficient time for everything to clear her system and then for you to have a couple of weeks to monitor her soya/dairy free behaviour/moods/sleep patterns etc. Then start introducing items back into her diet in a controlled manor and you'd be able to notice if trace amounts are affecting her. Tell nursery staff to treat it like any other serious allergy so that they are extra dilligent in keeping it away from her as challenging as it may be.
I'm just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience with their LOs being fine with some dairy products and not others? Would the process of making cheese affect the protein somehow so that it's more digestable? I haven't bothered trialing cow's milk, figuring if she couldn't tolerate the yoghurt that she'd probably not tolerate straight milk. I'm not that bothered though as she's happy to drink soy milk...
steph
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Steph: Abby's pedi GI said that yogurt and cheese have less protein in them so she told us to try those first.
Well we stopped all soy for right now. She can't shake this chest and nose congestion and her GI thinks the soy might be making it worse. We celebrated her birthday this past weekend and I made her cake but the mix and icing did list soy oil and it obviously bothered her b/c she threw up twice later that evening and was very restless through the night. I so hoped she had grown out of it. :'( Yesterday I ordered a stool test kit for cow's milk and soy sensitivity from Enterolab in Dallas. Her GI wants to order blood tests but I have read that the stool testing is much more reliable when it comes to GI symptoms then blood tests. She has never had any skin symptoms. I don't know if our insurance will cover it but I just want to know what is going on.
Andrea
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Steph, my dd can handle small amounts of some cheese (harder type, not creamy) and some plain yogurt but not any amount of milk. I read that allergy can turn into lactose intollerance after 12 months so I'm thinking that's what dd has. When she was younger we couldn't have any milk products whatsoever, she had blood in her stool.
Andrea, from my understanding, the stool test looks for trace blood in the stool while the blood test checks for counts and compares before and after a milk challenge. Also, my ped said that the blood in stool is more often present in younger los.
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This isn't the stool test that checks for blood in the stool. Here is the link for the lab https://www.enterolab.com/Home.htm I have talked w/a few moms who have had their lo's tested through there. The blood test is to test for (I think) an allergy vs. an intolerance. I have to confirm this w/her GI when we talk. But I would rather do the stool test b/c from what I have read it is more reliable and much less invasive then the blood test. She had to get blood drawn when she was about 2 months and it was horrible! :'( I don't want to put her through that unless I have too.
Andrea
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That sounds great! So much better than the blood tests. I had to do the blood test with dd, I was horrified to see how much blood they drew with one needle. :'(
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Hello, I'm new to here and haven't had the courage to waddle through 26 pages...
My LO is 10 months old and has had really soft stools since he stopped breastfeeding and started formula at 8 months. (My milk supply decreased a lot with my new pregnancy) He's also been sick continuously (runny nose, throat infection, ear infection, etc.). He's had fever several times. We went to the doc soooooo many times, I can't even care to count. He'd give all kinds of drugs, to no avail.
Last week we were visiting some family and my aunt took DS to a naturopathe, who said he needed come off cows milk (which I have suspected) and that as he had these digestive problems, the vitamins and minerals, especially iron, were not absorbed properly.
When we came home, I took him to a homeopath, to ask for more detailed advice. What a disappointment!!!!! I didn't like her at first sight, but I though I'd give it a go anyways. We spent about an hour there, not once did she look at the baby, didn't propose any solutions or diagnostic. When I said I suspected MSPI, she told me "you can start cow's milk at 10 mo". And I was like "well, that won't help, WILL IT?!?!" She also kept shushing DS who was getting impatient, having had to sit for so long without anybody paying attention to him. I was so upset. She was soooo utterly useless. I couldn't believe it. What a waste of time and money. >:( I am still fuming. She also offered some smart advice to help him sleep better, such as "does he have a night lamp" and "try PJs without feet, maybe his feet are hot". For heaven's sake!!!!!
Tomorrow I'll try and contact another naturopath, hoping for some more detailed diagnostic and a more sympathetic treatment of my baby. I still don't understand why doctors cannot get their act together and propose hollistic treatments, or at least refer patients to other specialists. I am doing all my research for specialists on my own, as there is no official listing.
I am thinking of switching to goat's milk. Any advice on that?
Thanks for listening to my rant. :-)
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Hi Gabriella! Sorry to hear of your ordeal, that's terrible about your visit and it's a shame you have to pay for that. I would suggest trying to eliminate his milk/formula intake and switching him to soy or rice milk (some can't handle soy, my dd can). For the first year when my dd had her protein allergy she could not tolerate goat's milk, apparently the protein is too similar. Could you first book an appt with your ped or doctor to see an allergist? If you make the switch from formula to rice or soy make sure your lo is eating a well balanced diet first and getting enough fats from other foods. As well, read the package, the soy I now use is fortified and unsweetened. Or switch to the hypo formula, don't know to much about it as we never did formula but others can tell you which one.
Also, if his reaction is due to milk, I would say he's lactose intolerant as opposed to having a protein allergy, if it were the full blown protein allergy he would have reacted to being bf'd if you took in any milk products.
Are you in Canada? Just asking because of the 10 month comment about switching to milk.
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Palmer is almost 17 mos and still can't even tolerate things that just have milk as an ingredient. I gave him 1/2 of a cereal bar 2 days ago and he was up off and on from 4-6am that night ... he has not had a night waking in a very long time, so I can't imagine it wasn't the milk. I had given him 1 Tbsp of soy milk in his oatmeal the day before and he was super crabby. But no butt rash, so I guess that is an improvement.
I am really just so frustrated by this whole thing. Everyone keeps telling me (including his GI doc) that he will start growing out of this by the time he is 2. But he really shows no signs of getting better.
I don't care if he can't ever drink cows milk, I just want to be able to feed him some things with milk or soy as an ingredient. This strict diet plus his pickiness has resulted in him eating the same 5 foods everyday. It is getting REALLY old.
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Cassie, you have my sympathies! (although Max is 2.5 and only eats 5 foods, but that is by choice!) Let me know if you want some food ideas for him, I'm milk/soy-free again too, or if you just needed a vent. I think your doctor telling you he'll outgrow it by 2 was sorta foolish, because how is he to know if he will or not? I would just hate you to set yourself up for that and have it not be so.
Since I'm the one milk/soy-free in our family, I just cook that way and everyone else eats it, regardless of what they want. :-[ ::) It does get incredibly boring, especially since I've been avoiding eggs since they give Faith awful gas. I eat a lot of oatmeal and I like mine with just warm water. (Max eats oatmeal for lots of meals, not just breakfast)
What my big wish is, is that with all these kids getting food allergies and intolerances, that someone can uncover the WHY of it. I mean, why on earth are all these kids cows milk intolerant? Why do manufacturers keep insisting on putting soy in EVERYTHING that is processed? And these aren't even the bad allergies, one of the moms on another board I go to says that her sons school just went peanut/treenut free. The whole school. No one is allowed to bring peanuts in any form into the school. Can you imagine? That is all Max will eat, pb&j every single day.
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Hello again!
Sorry for the long silence. I tried goat's milk with Elio, but it was a total disaster. I also gave him baby soy formula once, but it looked so lumpy and not appetizing that I didn't insist. So, he's back to his normal formula now. His stools are still really loose, but other than that he seems fine. He eats all kinds of other stuff and now he's down to about 25-27oz formula a day. He also drinks more tea, which he refused to do before.
I still have to contact the GP for allergy tests. I don't think he's really allergic, because then he'd have more symptoms besides loose stools.
Thanks for listening.
Gabriella
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I've never heard of goat's milk formula...any idea where you get it?
most pharmacies have goats milk ,lactose free , soy formulas
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I haven't gone back and reread this whole thread, but I'm back--baby #2 is also MSPI and I can't remember a few things about what to avoid--is everything that lists Natural Flavors bad? Because I know the list of things that are ok at the beginning of this thread mentions a few things, like chewy candies (only one I can think of right now :-[), that are usually ok, but everything I find says "natural flavors". Can that mean anything? Is there a way to tell?
Thanks!
~Kim
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hey, I just wanted to come back & update on this board since this thread helped me SO MUCH when I was dealing with my son's milk protein intolerance! It was diagnosed when he was 2 months old, when I mentioned to my doc that he always had green poops and I'd recently noticed mucous. Fortunately, she knew what that indicated & tested his bm, which was positive for bleeding: milk protein intolerance. Since I was exclusively breastfeeding, I cut out all forms of dairy x2 months which greatly improved matters, but he still had traces of blood in his bm. From that point til he was 8 months I worked on eliminating one thing or another trying to figure out what else he was intolerant to (i.e., wheat, eggs, gluten, corn, etc.). Against my better judgment, I did an elimination diet as recommended by some people on an allergy forum. I only lasted for 2 weeks, then said to heck with it-- I thought just cutting out dairy & soy were bad!! Later I read an article written for the Journal for American Academy of Pediatrics and it mentioned that milk & soy were the main culprits, with sometimes (quite rarely) egg protein being a problem. I decided to test it on him directly (egg yolk since he was 8 mo.), and BAMMO! that was the answer! Once that was established, I was able to add back soy & he had no problems, even with directly ingesting soy milk or tofu. At a year, I tested dairy on him with no reaction; 2 weeks later I tried eggs again and sadly he's still definitely intolerant. I am able to eat eggs a few times a week with no reactions from him, and I've decided to try it again when he's 18 months. (he's 15 months now). So, if anyone has cut out both dairy & soy and still are finding your LO has traces of blood in their bm, try cutting out egg. Thanks again for all the input and help I've received here!
-regina
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Wow... this thread is so amazing. Our 2 week old (she's been with us for 6 weeks; she was a month premature) has just been diagnosed with MSPI. The pediatrician told us her symptoms would likely ease up in 8 weeks - does the blood stay in the stools for the duration? Because she wasn't gaining our doctor had us top up with formula. We're trying soy/milk free formulas now. How do we know when a formula is a good fit - does the one week rule apply or will the baby give us queues (sleep more, less pain, less irritability)? Will the blood disappear from her stools? Our plan is to give her breast milk only once she's at a good weight. At the moment she is a very lazy feeder (she's so tired she "falls asleep at the wheel").
Is there anything we can give her for pain?
Thanks in advance. Once again, great to have this resource here to share experiences/info.
Lily Paige, Mum and Dad
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Lilypaige-
When Abby started on Neocate we started to see a really improvement at about 2wks. I would def give it longer then 1 wk. It can take a long time to get the milk/soy out of her system. Are you also doing the milk/soy free diet since you are also breastfeeding? No by pain...does she also have reflux? Abby had both reflux and MSPI. I am not sure about the blood in her stool. I would ask the dr. It will probably last until her insides heal. Not sure how long this can take. :-\ What formula is she on now?
Andrea
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Lilypaige, the intestines can take up to 8 weeks to heal so it may take that long for the blood to stop. My dd was diagnosed at 6 weeks of age, she had the blood, I had to go completely milk free. She's now 18.5 months and her milk protein allergy is completely over (started cow's milk last week with complete success). The odd time I'd have trace milk products (in error, at a restaurant) the blood would start again and take her 6-8 weeks to heal.
BTW, my dd was very slow to gain weight (still is), always off the chart, now finally at the 10% for weight, if you want to bf adding the formula may hinder your supply. I would suggest feeding on demand to increase your supply. My first ped told me to stop bfing at 3 months due to slow weight gain, I instead changed peds and the new one said the weight gain was slow but steady for the most part, not to stop bfing or to supplement with formula, but instead we had to monthly monitor her weight gain. Not suggesting in any way that you don't "listen" to your doctor, but instead I'm saying ask him/her if there's anything you can do with bfing so that she gains weight with bfing.
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Thanks Andrea, Marian :)
Interesting that Abby had reflux and MSPI, we have started to watch Lily for symptoms of reflux since reading your reply.
We decided to take Lily right off formula and try to exclusively bf if possible. I am on a soy and milk free diet. Would really like to keep on w/o using formula. We'll see how Lily weighs in next visit with the dr. We have both a GP and a ped (who diagnosed her) and will likely go with ped's suggestions over the dr's since he put us first on formula and then on a soy-based one when Lily reacted to the formula. We will keep Neocate in mind since it's been mentioned to me before.
I've also removed egg from my diet after reading through this thread.
Thanks again for your replies... i'd honestly be lost without this site
Lily's exhausted-but-now-hopeful mum
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I have to echo your praise about this thread. For the first 4mos of my DS life we had no idea he was MSPI. He did have silent reflux and the dr. said "you may want to limit your dairy and soy" Well, that wasn't a strong enough warning. I found out from this thread, based upon his symptoms (no blood, but mucous) that he was MSPI. I also had to cut out peanut butter at 6mo. He was one of the few that still can't take Nutramigen or Alimentum. Besides BM the only other option for us is Goat Milk and I'd have to add iron, vit., and folic acid. So, we stuck with BF. He has always been lean. Dropping from the 25% to 3-5%. My Ped. isn't worried and neither am I. Developmentally, he is on track. The 2 good things about a clean diet and BF: you lose weight and your baby is happy. ;D
Best of luck. Oh, one last thing. He really wasn't a good nurser until about 4 mo. Ironically, that is when I cleaned up my diet totally.
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Hi, I want some advice!! my son Ronan is coming 12 weeks and has been on five different milk combinations since he was born. He has reflux, but the Health visitor now thinks that it could be a cows milk protein intolerance aswell as reflux. He is currently on Lactose free Enfamil with Carobel to thicken the milk.
His milk intake has decreased from 6oz every three hours to 3/4oz every 3hours. He would cough constantly through the feed, and get very stressed and almost not want to suck on the teat and would almost immediately bring about an ounce back up. His stools are green and he would be quite uncomfortable during the night with him passing wind after each feed and spewing in his sleep.
My doctor wants him to be admitted to hospital and he his due to see the dietician next week, but can someone let me know if this sounds like an intolerance, and what I can do or am I just sleep deprived!!!
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It could be an intolerance it is really hard to tell until you try a hypoallergenic formula or Neocate. I know that Neocate is available in the UK. Some babies will do fine on a hypo formula but Abby was still bothered by the milk proteins in Nutramigen so her pedi GI switched her to Neocate.
Is he on any meds for reflux? Why do they want to admit him to the hospital?
Andrea
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he is on carobel, which thickens the milk so it stays down longer or it is supposed to. the only problem he gets terrible wind and you cant put too much in his milk due to the starch in it.
they want to admit him to hospital to observe his feeding due to the amount of changes he has had and that they have only worked in relieving his symptoms for a few days and then he goes back again.
I am just confused and at the end of my nerves
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Sounds like he really needs to be put on a reflux med. The carobel won't do anything to neutralize the acid that his stomach is producing. I am suprised that they won't try a med before they hospitalize him. I would ask about a reflux med and see if you can try a hypoallergenic formula.
Andrea
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Hi can I join in? I am so happy I have found this thread. DS is 16 weeks old now and we had problems since he was just 3 weeks old. His syptomes are the following: runny greenish poop, first it's always a little bit sticky and mucousy and then it's just watery, he struggles to poop for hours sometimes for days, he is of course very gassy and very fussy especially at night :( His aneaus is always very red. When he finally has a BM it is like a blast. He spits up a lot and has a lot of hickups as well. He gets Zantac for reflux and he doesn't seem to be bothered by the spitting up. He never was tested for any allergies or lactase defiancy. Any time we brought him to a doctor we always got the same answer "He's just colicky. There's nothing to do about it, and he will grow out of it." But seeing him suffer so much breaks my heart and I really want to know what causes his discomfort. I have been on a dairy free diet since he was 3 weeks old but noone told me to pay attention to soy protein as well.
Should we insist of getting a test at this age or should we wait until he gets a bit older? Is the test intrusive? They keep telling us by 6 months he will be over it but I don't know, some days it gets better but a few days later we are always back to the same problems. :(
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Marcimommy-
Def sounds like it is MSPI. Yes, I would try to also remove soy from your diet. Have you checked out the milk free list at the beginning of the thread? Milk is hidden in so many things you really have to be careful. I had Abby tested for milk and soy intolerance about 3 months ago. I had it done through Enterolabs in Dallas, Texas. I don't know if you are in the Us or not. It is done through a stool test, it came back positive for both. It is supposed to more reliable then blood tests. Abby was tested for milk and soy allergy through blood work and it came back negative. She has an intolerance not an allergy. Sometimes even on a milk and soy free diet there are other things that can bother them. Some moms have had to do a total elimination diet to figure it out. Here is a link for a message board where there are other breastfeeding moms that have MSPi kiddos and some also have other allergies. They would be lots of help also! http://www.quicktopic.com/23/H/aSxbbAkUULVMX
Andrea
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Thank you for the reply.
We had some tests today. We live in the US, in Florida. I am reading labels and keep an eye out for hidden dairy. Soy would be really hard to eleminate though. I was told today that they had to do an endoscopic test in order to find out if he had protein intolerancy. So you say it can be done with a simple stool test? ??? What is the test called?
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Oh yes, it is not invasive at all! I would do the stool test first before putting your lo through anything more invasive. I ordered the test myself through Enterolabs, the dr does not have to order it. Here is there website https://www.enterolab.com/Home.htm
You have to pay for the tests out of pocket and then you can submit it to your insurance. The milk and soy protein intolerance testing was about $200 but well worth the money to me so that I knew for sure. They send you the container and all the stuff to overnight it back. Then after you send it back it took about 2wks from when they received it to get the results.
Andrea
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Well we went to the GI yesterday and he prescribed a lot of tests. We will see the results soon ::)
Question: Does anybody have experience with swithing LO from bf to hypoallergenic formula? Could that help with his diarrhea and gassyness? ???
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Not sure about the hypo formulas b/c they still have milk proteins in them, some kiddos do okay on them. Abby was so so on Nutramigen but still crying during most feedings but did LOADS better on Neocate. Fussyness went away and so did the spitting up!
Andrea
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hey how does your bub get diagnosed with having this problem?? i suspect my 5month old son has it. He has brought up some of his feed every feed since birth. spews 5-6times a feed, during, before ,after whenever you pick him up basically. he doesn't have reflux. i have been to so many doctors and they all say it is normal. he will grow out of it. is there any tests that can be done to prove this?
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There is a sub for cheese. It is made with brewer's yeast. I got it from the gluten-free pantry. I made burritos and nachos with it....... soooooo good. There is a white "cheese" and a yellow "cheese". I did not care for the white.
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Some lo's do ok with hypoallergenic formulas but others need to go to an amino acid based formula like neocate or elecare. When we switched from regular formula to neoacte we had to wean James. We started with 1oz of neocate to 6oz of regular formula then gradually increased the amount of neocate and reduced the regular formula. We had our ds drinking just neocate by the end off day 3. It might be a little more difficult to wean from breastmilk as theyhave to get used to the bottle aswell but worth giving it a chance. You could always pump and freeze or pump and dump your breastmilk to keep your supply going just incase switching to formula does not work out.
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I had Abby's stool tested for MSPI since her symptoms were GI related. It was done through Enterolabs in Dallas, TX. You don't have to have dr's orders to get it done and you pay out of pocket and then submit it to your insurance.
Andrea
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I have to pop in and say I don't think formula is the answer unless breastfeeding options have been exhausted. Breastfeeding is the best way to heal the damage to their gut and will have the highest possibility of not having allergies later in life. In the long run, I'd rather not be able to eat something for 6-18 months than have my child not be able to eat milk for the rest of their life.
And I also wanted to say (brag) that I am pumping for a MSPI baby right now. I get about 12oz extra per day. He is local to me and we drop off milk to him weekly. I have donated over 1000oz so far. There are milk share websites out there, if anyone is interested in trying to get breastmilk. There are other moms who abstain from certain allergens for their own babies, so milk/soy-free milk can be found.
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I had to abstain from dairy, wheat, oats, tomatoes, apples, citrus, peanuts and seafood with DD and she is now allergy free.
I had ds tested very thoroughly and he is not allergic to formula but the doctor said that her testing showed that formula would prolong his illness but breast milk would help heal it. I tried therapies to cut down on my allergies b4 having ds, he is allergic to tomatoes, onions, milk, but not most other dairy, yeast, tea, garlic, coffee, mushrooms, oats, but not wheat.....I think it depends what you ate when pg.
And for the donating....I have to jump in here and say GOOD FOR YOU! That is really great.
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And I also wanted to say (brag) that I am pumping for a MSPI baby right now. I get about 12oz extra per day. He is local to me and we drop off milk to him weekly. I have donated over 1000oz so far.
That is so wonderful!! Not to mention a great way to increase your milk supply! If I do have a third I'm going to look into doing that.
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Well done I am really glad you can do that. It is not an option for everybody though. I know there are some people that go on a ted diet and their children still have problems. If a limited diet works whilst breast feeding though that is great as I do think it is best to breast feed if you can.
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thanks jimbob. I am going crazy remembering all the ingredients to avoid and they still sneak in every once in a while. I would agree tthat being on a restrictive diet while taking care of a family would not be possible for some.
I was so tired Saturday that I stared at the salad bar and could not for the life of me remember to avoid onions. Had a vomiting baby who could not sleep later. If allergens continues to be in my breastmilk too often, formula could be better for him....allergin ridden breast milk is NOT superior to formula. :o :'(
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Sevenbites, good luck with the eliminationdiet whilst breast feeding because it sounds like you are doing really well. Don't let one incident bother you too much. On the other hand don't upset yourself if you do end up changing to formula.
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Thank you Jimbob. I had to do this with my first, but of course, I had nothing to do but take care of her. Making everything from scratch and remembering it all was a little easier. ::)
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I forgot to mention... my first could not have any formula, so I had NO choice!
:D
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Sorry to jump in. I just recently started to mix breastfeeding & bottle feeding to Oliver and suddenly his rash has become soo bad and spreading all over his body, it made me wonder if it has been because of the bottles all along - also because since he's regularly on formula he's been spitting up alot. (Oliver is 6 months old, occasionally bottlefed before this transition, always has slightly ezcema but only on cheeks and behind knees, but I thought it was because he just takes after my bad skin). The doctor suggested to try on soy milk, and I have only started today. My concern is if he IS allergic to the soy milk as well. How long do you know whether or not the soy based formula works or it actually does the same? How long should I expect the changes? Thanks.
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Hi Linda,
This happened to my sister's DS too. Each time they went to church he would develop a rash :) She was at that time breastfeeding him, but at church he would have a bottle of formula. Thought it was a heat rash. Actually MPI rash.
THe rash settled down quickly on the soya milk. He is 14 months now and still gets a rash with milk products.
The general rule or recommendation is 2 weeks, although manytimes you can see an improvement much sooner. I would say that if there is NO improvement within the two weeks or if your DS gets worse on the soya milk, that would be a definite tell.
HUGS and good luck!
DI
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I agre with the previous post.
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Thanks! two weeks sound like a looong time though :( but I'll give it a go. Hopefully we can see improvement sooner.
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Just a quick update on Oliver - he didn't have any spit up after the soy milk yesterday (he normally would after his normal formula) but this morning I was almost convinced that his rash was slightly worse. His sleep was also a bit interrupted last night but it might just be coincidence - he woke up half hour before his DF (although he does this sometimes, not sure if the patterns coincide with drinking formula during the day), he woke up crying sometimes in the morning (didn't see the time) but I resettled him very quickly and he was okay until this morning. I know it's less likely that we're able to tell in just one day, but these whole things are making me stressed out!!
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I know where y ou are coming from and that stress is plain awful, as you just want to make your LO better!
Hang in there! You have come so far! Things will get better. Really. Even if there needs to be a few more changes along the way.
xx
DI
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Hang in there. It is possible that it is still from the cows milk formula depending how lon ago that was stopped. If you are unsure about the symptoms is it possible to go back to breast feeding exclusively as this would get your lo back to baseline and it would probably be more obvious if there was a reaction this way. I know this may not be possible. Good luck you are doing a great job.
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Hi It's me again. We've gone back from soy formula to milk based formula since I last post (a month ago). His skin was better on soy but not exceptionally good - i was convinced it did something but DH thinks we should try to go back to cows milk formula. We've changed the brand from Nestle Nan Gold to S26 lactose free (I know it probably wouldn't make any difference for his skin but we thought the lactose free might be milder than normal formula) , since then his skin flares up on and off but not as bad as when he was on Nan Gold (would it be possible different formula make difference like that, if he's milk intolerance?). I've noticed that his cheeks are slightly red when he had his milk (They were burning red when he was on Nan), doesn't it mean he's reacting on it?
I've been giving him pumpkins for his meals, but only the past 2 days I realised his face turned red within half hour and he started scratching his legs. I jusy don't know what to do now :(. he's off pumpkins off course but I am worried that he might react to similar yellow veggies and because there's a tiny doubt at the back of my mind that he might be allergic to cows milk i just am not sure what diet I should give him. We probably went off soy formula too soon (he was on it for 2 weeks) - shoud we have another trial maybe?
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To be honest it does sound like he is reacting to the new formula just not as much as he was to the old cows milk formula. It also sounds like your ds was still reacting to the soy formula to be honest. You could try a hypoallergenic formula like alimentum or you may need an elemental formula like neocate. My son is allergic to dairy and soy and can't tolerate the hypoallergenic formulas but some children do ok on them. The only problem is they are expensive and they taste pretty awful. We had to wean James onto it by mixing it with regular formula.
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Hmm.. that Nestle Nan is actually an HA formula, but obviously it didn't agree with my son. Wonder if it is worth it trying other hypoallergenic brand.
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Did not realise as we don't get that here in the UK. It might be worth switching to neocate or elecare if possible then.
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Sorry - just had another thought. It's a bit funny how he reacted worse to an HA formula than lactose free and soy base formulas, when the HA formula is aimed to lessen the risk of milk allergy. H Any explanation you can think of? And thanks so much for replying.
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Just want to say how useful this thread has been for us - thank you so much.
My son has been uncomfortable for the whole of his six-month life and we've never got to the bottom of it. I've dragged him to the GP on so many occasions and spoken to health visitors desperate for help because he was screaming in pain, wouldn't sleep, had constant diarrhoea, green stools, mucus in his stools or frothy stools. He'd vomit up to an hour after his feeds and had the most terrible wind and griping pains. He was also very aggressive and breastfeeding was often like having a wrestling match. The constant screaming and generally difficult behaviour took a pretty bad toll on the family - my husband and I were arguing the whole time and I was not spending enough time with my two-year-old daughter. I was told by my GP and the health visitors that I simply had a "difficult" baby and had to put up with it.
Anyway, suspecting it might be something in my diet that was upsetting him, I put him on one formula feed a day when he was five months. Disaster. He got so much worse. I tried a couple of normal formulas (SMA and Hipp Organic) and it was terrible. Eventually, a health visitor suggested Cow & Gate Comfort, which helped a little, but he was still very uncomfortable. Anyway, last Saturday, I cut dairy and soya from my diet. By yesterday evening (Monday), he was a different baby. He was giggling and smiling (things I didn't even know he could do!) and he had a proper poo for the first time - and no screaming to accompany it! It's amazing.
We may not be out of the woods yet, but I think we may finally have found the culprit for my poor son's pain and discomfort - no thanks to the medical profession.
Given that this is relatively common in babies, surely someone I spoke to should have picked this up. One of the many reasons why this site is so invaluable. Thank you again!
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Sorry - just had another thought. It's a bit funny how he reacted worse to an HA formula than lactose free and soy base formulas, when the HA formula is aimed to lessen the risk of milk allergy. H Any explanation you can think of? And thanks so much for replying.
Hi there,
I think it depends on what else is in the HA formula. I thought my son was MSPI only, but giving him solids I realised that he reacted badly to corn as well. I know that nutramigen has corn syrup in it, but my son is OK on that, surprisingly (although he still has about 2-3 nappies a day but SO MUCH happier!). But some moms have found that their LO's do better on one HA formula than another.
In the UK you get Pregestimil and Nutramigen, then you get Neocate which is an amino acid based formula. I am not sure whether we get Elecare in the UK - Kelly might be better knowing this. In the US and Canada you get Alimentum which is another HA formula.
OOps I just saw the post was in October 2007.
I will leave the info in any case. :)
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I am pretty sure we don't get Elecare. Everything I have read about elecare has always been in the US or Canada. I will have a check though.
Kelly
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Can anyone help me? My son is dairy intolerant - has bad wind, diarrhea, pain in tummy when exposed to milk proteins (I posted a few weeks ago that we'd just discovered this). I've been trying to get him on to a formula that he can tolerate. We've tried Nutramigen, but he got diarrhea and a rash and we've now been on Neocate for 5 days. He was OK at first, but he has just had a pretty bad day where the longest he slept was 20 mins, he was so uncomfortable with wind. He's been crying a lot since we've started trying the hypoallergenic formulas.
How long should we give it (ie, does the wind subside as the tummy gets used to the new formula and if so, how long should that take)? Is it possible that he won't tolerate any formula (the Paed gastro specialist told me yesterday that wasn't possible, but I'm not so sure)? If he doesn't tolerate the HA formulas, how likely is it that he'll tolerate soy formula? And is it normal for babies with this intolerance to cry a lot for an hour or two before passing stools and whenever they have wind?
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I would def give the Neocate more time. It can take up to 2wks to get all the proteins out of his system from the Nutramigen. Does he have any other health issues, like reflux??
Andrea
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Thank you. Unfortunately, I've already given up on the Neocate. Our lives were just too miserable. However, even on dairy-free breastmilk, we're still having problems - I've just got him to sleep after five hours of solid crying. I just don't know what to do. I'm trying to get a referral to an allergy specialist, but concerned that if it's an intolerance, it just won't show up on any tests. I've had nil support from the medical profession and am coming to my own (possibly wrong) conclusions. He may have silent reflux, but I just don't know....
He's seven months old now and I'm tearing my hair out trying to find an explanation for his apparent pain and copious amounts of wind. :'(
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First of all I am sorry that your lo is suffering so much and that you are just not getting the help that you need. Which country are you from? The only reason I ask is that once we know somebody from the same country may be able to give you tips on the best way to get the medical profession to listen.
Kelly
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How long was he on the Neocate before you gave up? If he could possibility have reflux also that can def compound the problems. A lot of babies with reflux also have MSPI and lots of gas and endless burps. I am so sorry that you aren't getting any help from doctors. I would def try and get an appt with a pedi GI. I know that these are hard to come by in other countries but they have the most expertise in dealing with reflux. If you think it he might have it.
Andrea
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Hi guys.. due to our 30 page thread length limit I am locking this one and making you a brand new one... part 2..
You can find it here.. www.index.php?topic=119689.0