BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Bottle Feeding => FAQ's - Frequently Asked Questions & Related Information - Bottle => Topic started by: Johanne on July 31, 2006, 08:48:54 am
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I would like such a thread - I'm mostly a breastfeeder. My son is 3 weeks old and is breastfed on demand (or woken every 3 hours during the day if he goes longer than this). At night I just feed on demand. The bottles of formula are an occasional thing, maybe once or twice a week now. They originally started because my milk was late coming in he lost a lot of weight at first (he was 10 lbs 7 ozs at birth and then lost 1 lb 3 ozs) and became too lethargic to breastfeed. I decided I wanted to keep him used to using a bottle so I can occasdionally get a break and a bit later so i can do things like go to the gym. I exclusively breastfed my son (now 5) for 13 months but this time around need a loittle more flexibility because of health issues, school activities, and i want to learn to drive and go to the gym! Becaue i was ill in the past I want to be able to factor a bit of time in to do these things and still know DS2 is taken care of. DS2 has been happy to take the bottle (though only a couple of ounces usually) so that is covered. I know i could express but I find it hard to fit the pumping in between feeds and really don't see the problem using the odd bottle of formula as my supply is now quite high and it doesn't seem to cause problems.
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I'm mostly breastfeeding as well. up till now I was feeding my dd with one FF bottle a day and just yesterday introduced another FF in place of BF.
I'm going back to work in a month and want to make sure she will feed regularly when I'm out. she won't take my expressed milk from a bottle so we had to introduce formula. but she likes it so it's not a problem. I'm a bit worried about her being constipated a little, but working on it.
xxxx
Monika
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I'd love to see this support thread as we combine feed Keira as well. She was born 4 weeks premature and was low birthweight and low glucose level (I had Gestational Diabetes). They started giving her a bottle of formula in the SCBU when they brought her to me to try and breast feed. But she wasn't strong enough to breast feed from me so lost too much weight and had to be gavage fed for a couple of days until her strength returned and my milk came in.
When we returned home from hospital we decided to continue with combined feeding as she had no troubles with it at all. Some days she'd have one bottle of formula, if we were out and I was uncomfortable feeding in public, or at night to give dad a chance to help out. Other days she is exclusively BF. We were lucky over the last week that she is so comfortable with the bottle as due to all the stress my milk supply dropped off and she wasn't getting much from my breasts at all.
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This thread is intended to support those who are feeding using both breastmilk and formula, sometimes called 'combination feeding' or 'mixed feeding'.
There are lots of reasons why a mother breastfeeding may choose to introduce formula - a working mum may not have the opportunities to pump her own milk or may find pumping unsuccessful. Mothers may have difficulty with their milk supply and may be recommended to supplement by their doctor. Or families may just feel that using formula occasionally is the right choice for them. Tracy Hogg was very keen to support mothers who choose combined feeding and we continue her legacy with this thread.
If you are a successful breastfeeder and would like to read more about why exclusive breastfeeding is recommended if it's possible before you introduce formula then you could visit the FAQ board for breastfeeding and read the question entitled - "For those who have the choice - why exclusive breastfeeding is recommended". If you have a question about the breastfeeding aspect that you feel might be better suited to the breastfeeding board feel free! A breastfeeding moderator will check in on this thread too though.
Thanks to Emma (Samuel's mum) for all her help .......so far ;)
Lauren
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I have to admit reading that FAQ worried me - now I feel like I've mucked up DS2's system by giving him the odd bottle of formula. I'm not sure what to do now.
Jo
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HI
I have just re-read your story at the bottom and it sounds exactly like my first days with Calum i.e my milk look 4 days to come in (poss. due to c-section), in the meantime he had look so much weight that he was shaking badly, had to be put on a drip and then the midwifes wanted me to top him up with formula.
I had always set out to try breastfeeding and give the occasionally pumped bottle, but things don't always work out the way you plan them :(, the biggest choice for me was NOT should I continue breastfeeding when I know he is not getting enough from me, it was I need to give me baby food, he isn't getting enough through me - is weight is deteriorating to the point he is kept in hospital another day or two for observation and it gets to the point you are so focused on making him alright and better again you need to do what is RIGHT for him - for me giving his milk via a bottle enable me to SEE how much he got, so I would never be in that same position again where he was ill.
Then because I was so tired in the first 6 weeks, it just became easier for me to continue to top him up with formula and EBM in a bottle.
I also read the info about the open-gut, and initially found it distressing but those are the choices I had had to make and I feel they are right for us.
Lauren
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Johanne
I thought really hard before writing the FAQ and I understand it may not be easy for some people to read which is I gave the title I did and tried really hard to be sensitive to all people's situations.
I know your story from the beginning Johanne. You have shown such determination and strength and supplementing for you was not a choice. You haven't 'mucked up' anything. You have a little boy who is flourishing. Even if it was a choice you had made, which some do, there are many many factors a family has to balance. It's not all clearcut. Plus This one aspect of what breastfeeding can offer is only one small part of the breastmilk 'protection'. As stated there are dozens of others aspects to consider -antibodies for one.
The information is there because of discussions the bf moderators have been having with Diego's mama (super admin) from the beginning of the bf FAQ. It's taken us this long to get it up and running. We felt many people are being told about the advice to exclusively breastfeed for 6 months or delay giving solids but are not given the background information which can leave people feeling confused. We would prefer people to be able to make an informed choice if it is a choice they are able to make.
This thread is hopefully not about people feeling uncomfortable about that FAQ. I honestly would prefer people not to read it if it isn't a choice they have. This is one reason why the 'link' isn't simply put on this thread and instead people have to read the title and choose whether it's something they should go and seek out and read. We all have to do what is right for our families to make them healthy, happy, well-nourished babies. For some, exclusive breastfeeding would not be the right thing to do.
Please PM me if you would like any more information.
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Ah, you see that's where I was getting confused, because I was assuming that he gets antibodies from breast milk and that because he only gets formula once in a blue moon (I think he's had maybe one bottle in the last fortnight and that was because he had been on me every 90 mins all day and I was exhausted (he was still on me after it though! ::)) he was probably still getting them. The open gut information though made me think that maybe formula negates the protection though. DS1 did have formula from a sippy from 4 months on Saturday and Sunday nights as I worked those hours and expressing for those never occurred to me because I breast fed such a lot, and he survived I guess :)
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Johanne,
This was a hard choice for us to make, posting virgin gut info. We've been thinking on it for months now and it first came to our attention over a year ago. We had to balance the uneasieness on our part of upsetting mums like you, who are doing a fantastic job of raising their babies, and having info to share that people might find useful. Our decision really comes down to wanting you all to know the information and to have it as you make your choices.
I supplemented with my two boys too. My second had a pretty severe milk allergy that he's just now overcoming at the age of two. With our rates of allergies on the rise in our babies, I think education is important and this is one effort on our part, educating. I sometimes wonder if Emilio's allergy could have been due to the early introduction of forumla whilst I was nursing him. Impossible to know for sure. I don't beat myself up about it though, Ican't. I needed to do what I needed to do and I had extenuating circumstances.
As was the case with me, there are a hundred extenuating circumstances when it comes to breastfeeding. So many things which influence what is BEST for our families -- you have done and are doing what's best for your family. Your best is different from my best, is different from the next mother's best. But it is the right choice for your baby. The information will likely not change many of our decisions, but it's there for the knowing and who knows if it might prove useful in the future. For me, I'd rather know than not know.
Bless.
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hi :)
I have a question concerning constipation [at least I think that's what it is]. Like I've posted above, dd (almost 15 weeks now) is formula fed twice a day now. before switching to mixed feeding we never had any problems with her bowel movement, she wasn't very gassy and just did poo like an average breast fed baby.
but now she doesn't poo more often than once in 4~5 days. and the consistency is much more thicker, not to mention the smell :o [sorry if TMI]. we're observing that she's having some gas problems now, sometimes she even wakes up at night crying and is hard to resettle [but not hungry].
I changed formula from Enfamil to Bebilon [that's Nutricia brand] and am waiting to see if it brings any changes.
should I be giving her some water or anything else to drink? she won't take anything unless it's really hot and she's very thirsty [well, it's been raining here for 3 days and is not getting any better so no hot weather for us].
I'm worried that she's in pain and just don't want to see my usually very happy baby hurt.
any help/advice will be very appreciated :)
TIA,
Monika
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Hi Monika,
I think the first question is if you plan to pump whilst at work. You could try mixing the expressed milk with formula and making the switch to EBM from a bottle while you're out and that will likely help the constipation issues. If you think the formula is causing stomach issues, you may need to try one that is not milk-based. Some people find soy formulas to work when milk based ones do not (milk based = cow's milk of course), though Emilio's GI specialist told me that 60% of babies with milk allergy also have an intolerance to soy.
Perhaps the ladies on the bottle feeding boards can give some good tips with constipation in the event that it's not really a gastric issue, more constipation and wind.
:)
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I supplement twice a day with formula she is very satisfied on the formula then with Breastmilk i find I still question my supply come afternoon. I felt that she was not getting enough to eat before, that is why I started supplementing. I tried pumping :-[ not very successful takes forever. Any Ideas as to what I should do .....continue what I am doing?...try to up supply bf exclusivly?...... go to formula exclusivly?..... daughter is 3.5 months and is a happy girl. I feel there is more satisfaction in the formula then bmilk but bf is so much better for her I am so consfused and stressed I want the best for her
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I supplement twice a day with formula she is very satisfied on the formula then with Breastmilk i find I still question my supply come afternoon. I felt that she was not getting enough to eat before, that is why I started supplementing. I tried pumping :-[ not very successful takes forever. Any Ideas as to what I should do .....continue what I am doing?...try to up supply bf exclusivly?...... go to formula exclusivly?..... daughter is 3.5 months and is a happy girl. I feel there is more satisfaction in the formula then bmilk but bf is so much better for her I am so consfused and stressed I want the best for her
hi Tara :)
oh I know what you mean with being stressed about all this feeding thing and wanting what's best for your LO... but you're saying that she is a happy girl, so I'm sure you're doing the best you can :)
BTW, there's March/April 2006 birth club, come and take a look :) https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=56999.1035
Diegos Mama,
thank you for your suggestions. I never actually thought about mixing EBM and formula... I think I'll try it :) and if things don't get better we'll try soy based formula as well. about pumping, I don't think I'll be able to pump at work [the only place I could be doing this is in the toilet, so not the best one to pump milk in, right?] besides, I've always had problems with pumping unless my breast were so full that it would almost hurt [if dd missed one feeding for example]. but I'll try again, it's for her good. :)
Monika
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Momofcarrie,
My supply always seemed to be less in the afternoons too. Make sure you're drinking plenty of water and eating well. I always clusterfed in the early afternoon and evenings. I had supply issues too with both of my boys. When I felt things dwindling, I'd put baby to breast very frequently. The problem that I found with supplementing with formula (I did one feeding before bed) is each bottle of formula given is demand subtracted from breastfeeding. Since it really is a supply and demand process, it's very easy to fall into the trap of giving more formula, then supply dwindles even more, hence the need for more formula, supply continues to decrease. It's a fine line...
Now with that being said, I've known lots of mums who were literally milk machines. They amazed me!! They could pump eight to ten ounces at a time. I could only do four to six when engorged! I'm pretty sure my second son self weaned at ten months because of the supplementing. I'm sure it got to a point where it was simply easier to take milk from a bottle. If you think you can pump instead of formula, give it a try, and maybe try boosting your supply and see where that goes. :)
Majamom,
If your daughter is happy on formula, and you are comfortable with that decision, don't stress yourself one bit! I do know many mothers who've pumped in the ladies rooms at work. But, that is a decision you need to make for yourself. Maybe the best thing is simply to feel your way along and make changes as necessary. As I was saying before, you must do what is best for your whole family, that includes you too.
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;DThank you for the quik reply it is so great to have a web site with such supportive people. :D
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i am soooo happy ;D i found this support thread!!!! i have been bf my little guy with an occasional formula bottle since birth. the last few weeks i have decided to give him a formula bottle specifially around dinner time and now this week at lunch, too. my plan is to bf before bed anytime during the night and early morning and use formula bottles during the day. is anyone else doing this? do you think my suppy will drastically diminish? now if the nights go like last night ( ;D) he fed around 8:00 and slept until 5:30 this morning. this happend a few other times so i am thinking he may be getting close to sleeping a great stretch at night. do you think my supply will keep up with 2 feedings a day (possibly 3)? if my supply doesn't keep up i wouldn't mind giving him a bottles during the night, i would just feel sooooo guilty becasue i bf dd unilt 6 months and stopping earlier for him would make me feel bad and of course the fact that bm is the best. why does it have to be so guilt ridden?!?!?! ???
thanks for listening and i am glad i found this thread!!!
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gee you sound exactly like my situation i also feel guilt ridden with the whole breast is best thing people say.I am struggling through it the hubby says I worry to much but again I say that all I want is the best for my little one. I am starting today to work on upping my supply bending the routine a bit for the next few days and let her eat more frequently we were around a 2.5 3 hour easy but can not keep her down for naps past 45 minutes. she sleeps well thorugh then night actually she is expanding her nights an hour more in the last couple of days to 6:30 so that is a bonus.So again I am so glad to have this site to refer to. If anyone has any suggestios dont hesitate to reply. Thanx
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stacy-your little guy doesn't actually bf, right? you pump? what kind of pump do you use to keep up your supply? it seems as if mine is dwindling fast! i am trying to bf in the early am, around 9am or so, for bedtime and any wake ups during the night, but my little guys doesn't seem real interested in the boob anymore :( which then i give a bottle and pump, but i am not gettin ga whole lot out of pumping. maybe my supply is low and ds doesn't like it becasue of a low/slow supply. how can i keep my supply up for over night?
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Hi carolyn,
I thinks so much depends on where you want to end up. Breastfeeding for me was very easy. My boys latched on like a champ, I never had letdown issues and could breastfeed just about anywhere, no pain, no infections, it was truly a cinch. Much easier than formula for me, and cheaper! However, that was my experience. I have plenty of friends whose experiences were the polar opposite.
I think a lot depends upon why you're supplementing with formula and how long you hope to breastfeed. To be totally honest, two to three bottles each day will have a definte impact on your supply. Is your situation one where you really need the bottles during the day? Also, were it me, I would want to stimulate my daytime supply as much as possible, ie, give all feedings then if it's possible for you, so that your milk supply is ramped up for the daytime and baby has plenty to eat. This will be good for when baby's ready to drop nighttime feeds. :)
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hi.
I think I may be starting to have a problem here :(
my dd seems not very interested in my boobs anymore and finishes her feeds in 5 minutes [squirming all the way through...], but she looks quite happy when she sees a bottle and she just gulps formula down.
and now she's waking twice at night to feed [between 12 and 1 am and 4~4:30 am] and she is hungry then, but that affects her first morning feed...
it's only been 2 or 3 days like this but I can see she's more happy with a bottle during the day, which doesn't necessarily make ME happy.
any suggestions anyone???
TIA,
Monika
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Tracy says nipple confusion is a myth but that there can be a problem with 'flow' confusion. One thought is to change to a bottle where her sucking is needed to be more in a breastfeeding style. Tracy describes them as variflow bottles. A Haberman feeder has the same principle. Then the difference between bottle and breast may not be so pronounced.
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This teat is about clostest to the breast as you can get. Especially if you use latex and slow flow. We never had any problems with nipple or flow confusion because we used them...
http://www.baby-supplies.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=19&products_id=933&osCsid=0bfcfa2398ed84126ec17a8ef2292de8
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we're using Avent variable flow teat or #3 teat [she was bored with #2... ::)].
and I have a really strong letdown. when I feed her from one breast first I can feel and then see milk coming out from the second one too...
so I don't really think it's nipple/flow confusion...
is it possible for a baby to wean herself from a brest? at such a young age???
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Maja mom, I just deleted my other message as I checked back and you are returning to work so I think it makes most sense to go back to a slowflow nipple as the other ladies have suggested. Even though milk comes quickly, have you done a yield lately to have an idea of how much you're producing?
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No, self-weaning isn't possible until much nearer 12 months (and even that is considered early by many).
I would say that many babies get really fast when they get older and you can take a full breastfeed in 5 minutes (and squirming is not uncommon!), It could be she's just getting more efficient as she gets older. Do you hear her clearly swallowing in those 5 minutes?
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Diegos Mama: I've read both your messages ;) and I guess we'll go back to slower flow teat then... and I'll try the yield too.
Samuel's mum: yes, she's swallowing hard all the feed. so maybe it's like you've said and she's more efficient? but why is she waking up more at night to feed now? and it's not a growth spurt because during the day she won't eat more often than 4 hours.
:)
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Something developmental going on? Rolling, getting better control over arms or the like?
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you've go it: rolling, control of arms, attempts to sit up [not succesful though, too young ;)] and using her voice so much more.
so, does it mean she's burning more calories and needs to add them at night feeds ??? or ???
we're not doing DF, it wasn't helping and she would wake up every time...
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I reckon it's a combination of her being an efficient feeder and burning extra energy and maybe waking up for other reasons (e.g rolling, developmental stuff) and when she's awake thinking that maybe she is actually hungry.
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Hi everyone,
I haven't managed to get in here and post for a while now. But I've managed to find a chance to catch up on some computer time while DD is having her nap. I've come back looking for an answer or two and am hoping someone will be able to help.
Keira is 12 weeks old now but born 4 weeks early. She's had a dummy since day 3 when in SCN and wanting to suck constantly but wasn't with me. Even now she just wants to suck all the time. Night sleeps are wonderful. She has 6oz of formula at her last feed and then sleeps until some time after 4am, lately it's been closer to 6.30 at which time I start the day. She is usually happy without the dummy overnight. She'll usually have one nap lasting about 40 minutes and the rest of the day it's a struggle to get her back to sleep and she's ending up overtired by the end of the day. Her first feed is BF with very full breasts, but the rest of the day they don't feel full. She's wanting to suck all day and gets very upset if she hasn't got the dummy.
My question is... is she actually getting hungry during the day and that's why she wants the dummy all day? Am I confusing her signals? This morning she fed on both breasts rather than just one and has now been asleep for almost 1.25 hours whereas most day naps I'm lucky to get 40 minutes from her. I've been concerned about my supply for a little while now and this is making me think it isn't enough for her.
Would be really thankful for any opinions or advice.
Tennille
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Tennille, sorry I can't help you :( my dd uses her paci at naps/night only and lately she's started refusing it lol :o
anyway, I guess my dd's night wakings are definitely developmental: today she woke up 4:20 am and just kept on rolling in her crib talking to herself but not calling us at all... for a while she's been mastering rolling back to front to the left and now it's to the right that she wants to practice all the time... so nothing to do with eating I suppose. which is good :) bustill, when she sees a bottle she gets all happy, and when she sees mommy's boob... well, at least it's good that at night and in the morning she has no choice and takes the boob ;D
thank you for your help and suggestions :) :-*
Monika
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Hi Keira's mummy
My question is... is she actually getting hungry during the day and that's why she wants the dummy all day? Am I confusing her signals? This morning she fed on both breasts rather than just one and has now been asleep for almost 1.25 hours whereas most day naps I'm lucky to get 40 minutes from her.
It might well be that she is getting ready to move to 2 breasts which isn't uncommon and isn't a reflection on you having supply problems. (In her first book, Tracy says it happens for many people when their baby reaches about 12lbs but it can happen before or after.) Yes, some people continue with single-sided feeding for ages but some also begin with double sided and never think anything of it (the La Leche League is usually a fan of double-sided feeding from the beginning). What needs to be remembered is that if both breasts are 'finished' and your baby still needs more (a worry for many - it's rare- but might happen during a growth spurt for instance). Then you can always go back to the first one again and there will be a new letdown (not with much foremilk but slow rich hindmilk).
And I really wouldn't go by the 'feeling full' thing. Honestly. When breastfeeding is getting established your breasts are full of extra blood and lymph fluid (it's only partly to do with milk). After a few weeks the breasts 'settle down' into milk production and this fullness lessens. Many people panic at this point (and panic if they've stopped leaking which often happens around the same time) but it a natural stage. You are bound to feel engorged in the morning after such a long interval but I would not worry about not feeling full during the day.
On the question of the dummy in all honesty a baby's sucking reflex is closely tied up with their hunger signs and it is sometimes possible for a young baby to take a dummy and stretch to the next feed when it might be a good idea to offer the breast (good for your supply and for her). The dummy is a useful tool especially at night but it can sometimes prevent your reading your baby's language. I would say as a rough guide - with her history - I would expect her to be feeding every 2.5-3 hours during the day. If she's going a lot longer than 3 hours I would be tempted to offer the breast. It would depend on things like her weight gain/ current weight.
HTH
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Keira's mummy... I have done 2 breasts since my little girl was born (3 weeks early at 5lbs. lucky cause any less lbs and she too would have to stay at the hospital. and there is another letdown on the 1st breast if she still needed more. I just let her suck it all down as much as she could whenever she could (I'm paying the price for this now though as she has no feeding schedule whatsoever). they did let me take her home but her blood sugar level was typically low at the hospital. this drove me absolutly bonkers when I took her home because I was always worried at every little shake that she was having sugar level problems. do a yield test (pump and add 1-2 oz of what ur getting and that's about what she's eating.) 2. my md always reassured me that if she is having wet/dirty diapers/gaining weight she is eating enough. 3. my tiny tyke always wanted to bf and suckle it seemed every moment of the day, which also drove me a bit bonkers. I wasn't smart back then so I never introduced a paci/bottle and now (if u read on we have huge issues with her taking the bottle) however I know that if she sucked on my finger happily it was a sucking reflex. If the finger didn't help to calm her down I know she was hungry. it probably is the same with what she's sucking now. It is a bit emotionally unnerving when you bring your tiny tyke home from the hospital with low sugar levels... it's only been the last month or so that this fear has disapeared (when she went over the 12lb mark and turned 4+ months)...
ok. onto my tiny tyke bottle refuser. My dd absolutely positively refuses anything coming out of a bottle. I have been trying off and on for the last several months (she is now 6 months old). It has come down to utilizing the idea from the solves ur problem book about stopping bf for 2-3 days and only give her the bottle. I'm working full time and my nanny (her cousin) can't use a finger feeder to her breast anymore... she's getting sore and bummed out that she is bf and she isn't even expressing milk and not her baby!!! (she uses a finger feeder to her breast and my dd feeds as if it's me using ebm) bless her wonderful little heart to do it in the first place. anyway, it has been HELL. dd is the second most stubborn person I know (luckily I'm the first). after day 2 she took the bottle (yeah!!) ate 8-10oz while I was at work and ate 3 oz from me when I got home. started back to bf today and I have tried offering the bottle and again she's refusing it. ugh! I hope I didn't start up with bf too early... but pumping that often is A PAIN and very hard on a single fulltime working mom. I so want to be able to bf and give bottle. so, hence forth my plan is to bf today to her little heart's content, and then give her a bottle during the night. she wakes up about every 2-3 hours to feed. yes 6months old and still waking 2-3 times a night... hopefully this will help her continuually get used to the bottle (even on my not working days) and help her to cut down her desire for nightwakings to be fed and upping her desire to feed more during the day. Then when I go back to work on wednesday she will already be hip to the fact that bf only happens during the day. the good news is that she did take the bottle we just need to keep reinforcing this behavior. how does this plan sound? well, if there are any addendums please let me know ... I will check later today. I will update tomorrow how the plan worked.
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I'm feeling really hopeless right now about being able to breastfeed and bottle feed my dd. I tried just giving her the bottle all last night (after 2 1/2 days of hell getting her just to take the damn thing) and she's back to refusing. It wouldn't be such a big deal but I work evenings, I am a single mom and I have to work. I get much more money working evenings and typically get home at 12:30 at night. I can barely make ends meet as it is financially so I can't change the shift. she doesn't eat as much as she should while I'm at work, even if my nanny does get her to feed using the finger feeder on her breast. because she hasn't eaten enough while I'm at work she's still hungry when I get home and wakes up every 2-3hrs to eat. and she does eat when she wakes up. like a mad fiend emptying both breasts. If she doesn't take the bottle there's no way to fill the daytime tummy and I'm stuck getting only 5 hours of sleep a night every night. so, my options seem to me to either get 5 hours of sleep a night or completely stop breastfeeding altogether so she is on the bottle and she can fill her daytime belly. either option is equally horrible for me. I'm utterly deptressed about the whole situation. I'm so angry at the lactation consultants who told me to wait till after 4-6 weeks to introduce the bottle. I feel like they ruined my life. I wish that I would have gotten a hold of the bw book before I had my dd and none of this would be happening. anyway, any suggestions out there? I just don't know what to do anymore.
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youza. what a baby can do to you. I'm starting to feel more positive about this raising a child thing now ;) I met with a lactation consultant today. She sent me home with a haberman feeder which is truly an amazing bottle. I wish I had started her on this one!! she is able to hold it to her mouth by herself and is very happy to play with it and gum it in her mouth. I'm hoping that in a short time she will become comfortable enough with it to feed from. the point is to get her to sleep 6hrs at night not take the bottle. (don't lose the forest for the trees). so, I will bf her during the morning /afternoon (getting about 15 oz in her hopefully) and while rudy is watching her for the 10 hours I'm gone she can feed solids to her (ebm mixed with oatmeal 2 meals, fuit or veggie 2 meals. each meal being 2-3oz.) hopefully totalling around 8-10 oz. then when I get home I will feed her the "dream feed". which should give her enough to sleep thru the night!! hopefully ;) during the day I will offer the bottle with formula until she is actually drinking from it (if ever) and then I can put ebm in it. I will still not bf at night and only offer the bottle to keep her eating more during the day. the lactation consultant said that it would be ok to up the solid food to 10oz at this point. making her solids 1/3 instead of 1/4 of what she gets. at least there is hope, where this morning I just saw endless sleepless nights. Is it really ok for her to be taking in this much solids at this pont?
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Wow, sounds like you've got a great plan! Do you think she'll dislike the difference between EBM and formula? I mixed the two for a while, slowly increasing the formula to EBM ratio and my son took to it no prob.
Keep us posted!
:)
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hi
why is it that my dd can be bottle fed everywhere, with TV on, people in the room etc. and when I breastfeed her it has to be quiet and just the two of us ??? is it common?
another thing: I've just changed feeding pattern from BF-FF-BF-FF to BF-FF-FF-BF [hope it makes sense ;)] and all of a sudden she's waking up more at night [also because of being a bit overstimulated I think but not only]. tonight she got a feed at 6pm and 7 pm [had to do it in turns but al together it was a big full feed- 2 boobs] and then woke up starving at 10 pm and took another full feed. I'm getting a bit worried, she was sleeping through with just one feed at night and now she's waking almost every hour and more hungry than before...
any suggestions will be very welcome :)
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:) well. isn't it crazy as soon as you give up and create a plan for something you think will never happen... when I met with the lactation consultant she gave me a haberman bottle. I never got one despite the bw toting it's wonderful properties due to it's expense. (the hospital/lactation consultant told me that if I bought one outright it would be 50.00, but since I made an outpatient appt. they could charge my insurance for it.) anyway, yesterday she drank from it like nobody's business. in the morning with me she drank 2 oz in her car seat (holding it herself mind you ;) and then she took a whopping 14 oz while I was at work with my cousin ;) youza. the poor girl previously must have been starving because before she would only take like 8oz from my cousin using the finger feeder. she has been sleeping much much better!!! oh my gosh. I couldn't believe when she took the bottle. I actually got teary eyed!!! all day yesterday I wanted to go up to strangers and say... do you know my baby takes a bottle now ;) crazy what these little tykes can do. now I feel comfortable implementing bw plans to correct all my other accidental parenting booboo's ;) thanks for the encouragement and godbless this site as I would have never ever thought to have used the haberman... it truly is a magnificent bottle!!!!
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Hooray! So glad to hear it. I'd give her a week or two to get settled into the new feeding plan, then move on to sleep. This will give you some time to see if she settles into better sleep patterns herself. I'm so very happy for you.
*HUGS*
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Majas mom, oh jeepers, I don't know. Maybe go back to your original feeding pattern and see what happens? So much of babies is experimenting and tweaking things. Then just as soon as you figure out something that works they change things up again and all over we're sitting in the dark trying to figure it out.
How have things been since you last posted?
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Maja's mom... I would also encourage you to go back to your previous feeding schedule. formula is not as fast digested in baby's tummy's as breast milk. the formula that you have been feeding her may be sticking in her tummy longer and keeping her feeling full longer through the night. It's tough when these tiny tykes get up so often in the night!!! my spiritied angel was getting up 6-7 times a night before I got her feeding schedule lined up so she was filling her daytime tummy now it's down to 2-3 ;) It's all about gettin' foods in 'em that stick through the night, unless of course going through a growth spurt or teething ;) anyway, good luck and hang in there!!!
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Laura, Stacey,
thanks for your suggestions BUT I can't go back to that pattern as I'm going back to work next Wednesday and I won't be back for 3 pm feed and she won't take my BM from the bottle... so I don't know, maybe I should quit BFing during the day at all? not that I want to, but... that would leave us with morning BF and at least one BF at night. but I'm afraid my milk supply would drop a lot.
it's all too difficult sometimes...
and she's teething ::) :'(
Monika
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Its better to not schedule what feed is bfeed, what is formula and then bfeed as much of the feeds as your day/life permit and then supplement the others. If you do this, your supply wont drop as much as if you only bfeed morning and night day after day after day.
If you have a pump you can pump at work too, if its not a desirable option thats ok, plenty of moms bfeed and formula feed and do great!
I can't really pump at work... or maybe I just don't want to... I'd have to do it in a toilet and really don't feel comfortable with that. and I often spend the whole day out of office so it would be very very difficult.
but should I then stick to BFing only on the weekends? sometimes it may not be possible, but I should be spending those two days with dd, so I could do that. what do you think?
TIA
Monika
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:D thanks for encouragement! :-* :-*
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I did both for some time. What worked well was to stick to certain feeds... like the morning feed and the afternoon feed and the evening feed was always a a breastfeed, the DF was a bottlefeed and so on. It worked fine but on some days I breastfed a bit more frequentlt to keep the supply up. Didn't do it for long though ceuase I had a to wean to bottle all of a sudden :-\
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This is a wonderful thread! I had breast reduction surgery 10 years ago and planned to breastfeed when I had my little boy, just 4 weeks ago. I knew there was a possibility that I may not be able to breastfeed, but my plan was to give it my best. I made colostrum from the start and knew that I was making at least some breastmilk, although I never felt my milk come in or anything. When Quinn's weight fell to 15% below his birthweight the lactation specialists had me supplement using a preemie feeding tube inserted into Quinn's mouth after he latched onto my breast. This way I could ensure that he got the calories he needed to grow and I could still take a stab at breastfeeding. I know that I'm not making much milk at all. But I'm able to hand express at least a little bit each day. To me, it's worth it for Quinn to get whatever breastmilk I can give him - even if it's minimal. Pumping has been a huge frustration for me and I've been inconsistent with it.
Now, 4 weeks after Quinn was born, he weighs 10 lbs 4 oz (he was 8lbs 8 oz at birth and 7 lbs 4 oz at his lowest weight) and he still latches onto me to eat at least 5-6 feedings per day. I give him a bottle at dreamfeed time and usually when he wakes in the night to eat (the tube thing can be a bit awkward when you're sleep deprived...). I plan to continue with this until Quinn chooses not to breastfeed at all any more. Or else, when I know that I'm not making any milk or can't express any milk at all by hand, I will probably reassess the method.
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rudojen
I'm sure you have found it but just incase!:
http://www.bfar.org/
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I actually hadn't seen that website before. Thank you so much for sending the link!!! :D
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hi.
me again, lol :-[
I think I'm starting to have this strange supply problem: I've been back at work for 1,5 weeks now. and every day from 2~3pm by breasts get huge and engorged and all I'm thinking of is to feed dd [which is impossible because I never get home earlier than 4pm which means dd has already have her 3pm feed]. sometimes I have to express to feel less uncomfortable. BUT over the weekend I feel like I'm producing no milk at all. OK, today's better, but yesterday it was just terrible. and I know that when I did BF at 7pm Maja ended up in bed with a half empty stomach [woke up at 22:30 crying out of hunger].
I don't know if it's psychological or what? and I don't know what to do... pumping's no good, doesn't really help and I hate it too. I was thinking about some herbal tea stimulating milk production but then I'm sure I it would make my boobs hurt even more Mo-Fri...
any suggestions?
TIA,
Monika
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There is breastfeeding tea, if you don't over do it it did the job for me...
http://www.mumstuff.co.uk/acatalog/MumStuff_Teas_for_Breastfeeding_31.html
Like that one. If you can find fennel-aniseed-caraway tea you can buy that, it might be cheaper :)
Good luck
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My Carebear has been getting two bf's a day for a month now but is starting to twindle now to 1st feed of the day, is the quality of her milk the same or is it different, because there is days where she does not seem as satisfied on it. I would love to continue but I think she is losing interest, her and I are so busy that it is easier to supplement with formula, and i figure its better that she gets some breast milk then non but will I have to express a little at night or something to maintain this rountine till she is atleast 12 months?
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The milk your carebear receives will not be lower in quality. It will contain just as many of the nutrients/antibodies/living cells that your breastmilk ever did. In fact there's reason to believe if your only feed is going to be the first one of the day that is a ideal plan. Firstly, because it's a time when milk supply is often at its best for a mum after a night's rest. Secondly, because after the night she's likely to be hungrier so will take more and stimulate your supply more.
That's the great news!
The less great news (as Stacy mentioned earlier) is that for some reason (and it isn't really known why people are different with this) some mums struggle to maintain only one or two feeds a day. Some people go on for months without any supply problems but some mums (especially of babies under 6 months) find their supply dwindles.
Do you feel this is happening to you? Can you hear clear swallowing sounds while she is feeding? Does she seem 'satisfied' after a feed? You might be absolutely fine. You can't predict who will or won't (although the longer you have breastfed the easier it is to go to only one or two feeds).
I would keep it up if it's working for you. If you really are keen to maintain it you could pump after the morning feed to tell your breasts to up their production and increase quantities available. You could pump at other times of the day but you are also telling your breasts that's the time they need to make milk (e.g. in the evening). If you are really worried by all means pump at other times and take herbal supplements to have a blitz on your supply but as Stacy says you don't want to get uncomfortable not least because this could lead to problems like blocked ducts.
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hi
just wanted to 'report' we're finally doing really good with BF and bottle :)
I'm BFing her morning and before bed, my lactation has normalized, she's happy with her bottles and with mommy's boobs too ;)
we've been introducing some solids too and all in all have no problems with her eating.
now I should move on to teething thread thou, hehe.
thank you for all your help :) :-*
Monika
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So, DD has been over her 5 month growth spurt for about 4 days now. She had her 5 month growth spurt at 4.5 mos and I am thinking at 5.5 mos that will mean she has her 6 mos growth spurt then and plan to start her on solids then too.
My dilemna is this, since her growth spurt I notice that she can only last 3.75 - 4 hours between daytime feeds whereas she used to be sooo flexible and could wait 15 min longer or even 30 min on 4 HR EASY. I noticed she continues to wake early around 5:30-7am where wake-up used to always be 7:30-8am and instead of waiting quietly or drifting off back to sleep she lets out a blood-curdling yell and won't stop unless I go get her. Putting her back to sleep is out of the question, she wants to eat. Once she eats, she won't go back to sleep without a fight. I know hunger is the key here and she used to sleep through great. I notice now after the dreamfeed she keeps hanging on and wanting more milk but I have none to give and even after pumping for a week and a half, drinking tons of water, it is still not enough. So, that is why I am thinking of trying to top up for dreamfeed using FF starting tonight. I'm still going to feed her both sides, but hoping that a couple ounces of formula is all she needs to get uninterrupted sleep till her wake-up.
I used to cluster feed but found that she just never really ate much at her clusterfeeds and woke up at least once at night when I did that so I stopped it. For some reason, that helped with getting her to sleep from 8-8.
I don't konw if I'm doing the right thing by FF but I figured it was worth a try. Only a little longer till she is old enough for solids and maybe she will feel happier with a full tummy when that happens!
Ok... so we will try this tonight and see how it goes. Let's hope this helps! If not, then I go back to square one! :-\
Wei
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Hi there,
Im new to the forum, my daughter is 5 weeks old and up untill now I have been exclusivly breastfeeding, however she isent gaining weight and still only weighs 6lbs 8oz at 5 weeks (she was born at 37 weeks), so yesterday the HV suggested topping her up with some formula after she only gained 1oz in the last week...So i started yesterday and she seemed to be fine taking it...i just hope it helps her put some weight on!
However i was going to ask...the HV suggested top up feeding AFTER breastfeeding so as not to upset my supply, so i guess my question is does this work or should i just replace a couple of feeds totaly with the formula? I did the top up after the feeds yesterday and i think she overate the first time as she was sick...
Also should mention that DD has reflux and is on infant gaviscon to help relieve the symptoms...
Thanks, all this is so worrying and confusing ???
Tory x
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Hi All-
Its good to see a support thread for those who both bottle feed (formula) and breast feed. I had a serious bout of postpartum depression, and made the decision to switch to bottle feeding exclusively (the little guy was latched on for 1.5 hours and then wanted to eat 30 min later, my mental health couldn't take it). I express BM, and he's supplemented with formula as well. I'm only pumping around 3oz at a time, and he'll take 5oz, so he gets 3oz of BM and 2oz of formula at each setting. I've noticed that he has gas more, but is taking the change from BM to formula and back fine. I appreciate bottle feeding my baby because I can "know" how much he's getting, and can adjust accordingly if he's fussy.
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I gave my DD her first bottle of formula when she was 2.5 months old because I was going to be going back to work soon and needed to know that she could tolerate it if needed. I still pump and she gets expressed milk when I am not with her, but she also gets one bottle of formula a day. My DH or I will give her a bottle of formula for her DF (I couldn't get her to latch on for DF). I use to pump milk for her DF but started not being able to express enough for a full bottle, so we made the switch. This also gave us another way to give her her vitamin drops. We use to give them to her directly from the dropper, but now we mix it in with her formula.
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Hello,
Does anyone know where I can download the EASY log? I am a new mother with a newborn that was hospitilized in the NICU for the first entire month of her life (long story). I have her home now and want to keep track of everything she does/eats because she hasn't been doing to well at home this first week. I would appreciate any help I can get. Thanx
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thanx stacy
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Hi there, I am new to this website and have a few questions. My LO has been fully breastfeed for her first 7 weeks. Due to medical reasons we are introducing a formula feed at night. We have introduced this to her during the day so we are not having an upset LO before bedtime. She has taken to it really well.....fingers crossed. To get her used to this how slowly do we introduce it the formula. Have looked through the BW book and can't really find the right info for this.....in terms of the introduction and change over. Hope this makes sense.
Cheers in advance for your help.
Kiwi4Eva
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Sorry - I've only just seen this. Does she take a bottle well?
It sounds as though you've already started introducing it I'm not quite sure what you are asking :-\.
What have you been doing so far?
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I have some questions.
I had some PPD issues with my first child which lead me to stop breastfeeding at 3 weeks old. I want for my next child to be breastfed but I want to save my sanity this time as well, Is it possible from day one to breastfeed during the day and bottle at night. I think the sleep deprivation really increased my PPD and if I could get some sleep next go round I think I could avoid the PPD as much!
What do you think? Oh, I also had a c-section so that didn't help with all the other stuff that comes along with being a new mom!
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Hello, I'm new to this particular board, but have just been advised by our paed to supplement DS with formula as he wasn't putting on weight.
He said I should continue to BF, but give him a bottle afterwards.
How do others manage this in terms of timing for making a bottle up?? I'm pretty confused as I've never done this before! Any advice gratefully received!
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summersusu - it's theoretically possible but it's not going to be easy. This is because the supply is so governed in the early days by stimulation and demand. Several nights feeds are useful in the early days because the hormone prolactin is around particularly at night and this is what kickstarts your supply. Your best bet is to feed at night even if it's just for a few days to get the milk in - get someone to carry the baby to you, do the winding/burping and settle the baby back to sleep and feed lying down if you can. After that you may need to do some extra pumping to get your supply to the levels needed for the day. You could also consider taking a galactologue like fenugreek to boost supply but the best way to boost supply is by more feeding. The only other issue is that some young babies do find it harder to move between the bottle and the breast as different techniques are needed. You need to make sure you get really good advice on your latch. It might be better to give the formula at night another way - e.g. a syringe or dropper until he is definitely feeding well at the breast.
With a c-section it's also super important to get the 'stimulation' aspect up and running as you may have a delay to starting feeding. Good Luck.
Fiver - we've had lots of recent discussion about weight gain and the advice to supplement on the bf board. You may want to check out the WHO weight charts on the bf FAQ board and see how he does on those - some doctors are still using the formula baby charts. Weight gain slows down for a number of reasons - more activity, it's a natural stage after the 4 month mark for many bf babies. If you feel confident supplementing is the right thing for you - the bottle can be made up in advance and sit there for quite a while until it's needed (certainly the length of the breastfeed). You should make sure he's completely done at the breast first (offer the second side and even go back to the first - 'third' side - there will be more there). If you do want to chat about weight gain issues do come and start a new thread on the bf board.
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Emma - thanks for that. I've checked out the WHO charts and he's not even on the first centile curve on that. Also, in the last 3 weeks he's lost weight (back to where he was 6 weeks ago), so supplementing is something we're going to have to at least try.
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Fiver - hope all goes well.
You could think about using a SNS system too - which stimulates your supply at the same time. If breastfeeding is something you'd like to maintain in the long-term then I would suggest you have a chat to a breastfeeding specialist/ lactation consultant.
Here's a bit more about an SNS system - Lactaid is another brand:
http://www.lowmilksupply.org/abs.shtml
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Samuel's Mum
Thanks for the advice. Maybe I should look at some safe PPD meds so that I can successfully breastfeed and be a happy mum. I was really stubborn last time and refused to take anything and just cried it out. I don't know. I just want what's best for the baby but keep my sanity too. It is a whole lot easier to breastfeed than pump for me. Pumping was like a job within itself! So I don't know how well that would go the second time either. I am going to continue to pray and read about the best option for me and the next baby, assuming I will be blessed again.
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summersusu - there are lots of mums on these boards who have continued on their meds while nursing. Just start a thread on the bf board and you'll see. The population suffering from depression contains a large amount of mothers post natally. And a large number of these women need to take meds. And a significant proportion of those nurse their children. It's an area that has been studied at length.
There is more about taking PPD meds and breastfeeding here:
http://www.kellymom.com/health/meds/antidepressants-hale10-02.html
Dr Thomas Hale is one the leading world authorities on this subject.
http://www.kellymom.com/health/meds/antidepressant-ref.html
Good wishes to you :)
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Hi, I have had pretty severe PPD - and I am taking sertraline and breastfeeding (lots!) even now my baby is 1! I have to say the last 4/5 weeks have been fantastic depression wise so i think we have finally found the therapeutic dose. I'm overjoyed, I can't tell you. Hang in there! :)
Jo xxx
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That's great news Johanne :)
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Hello!
I just discovered this board at a perfect timing! I am just starting to do a combined feeding for my LO of 4.5 m. She got sick ( A very big flue, hopefully no pneumonia!) the last two weeks and did not gain too much weight and as I also got her cold after that (already being very tired of having to worry so much for her!), I decided to cut the pumping at work during the day and only breastfeed morning, evening and dreamfeed! So she get two formula bottles a day now at the daycare.
As we just starting with that, I do not have much experience on how much she should take, what I can see is that some days (especially at the day care!) she eats a lot and generally the days with me (week ends) she eats much less form the bottle. As I have no way of knowing how much she eats via the BF, I don't know how much she takes the days she eats few from the bottles. Should I worry about this or as long as she is smiling, growing OK and not waking up at night to ask for food, just let her do?
I also have another question on the combined feeding: do I have to make special care of my milk supply or it will adapt on the 3 feeds a day by itself? do i have more risk now of low supply than before with the 100%BF?
thanks for the advise!!
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I also have another question on the combined feeding: do I have to make special care of my milk supply or it will adapt on the 3 feeds a day by itself? do i have more risk now of low supply than before with the 100%BF?
Everyone supply behaves differently but basically there are a couple of principles if you are going to try and maintain a reduced supply - firstly make the transition as gradual as you can. When people drop feeds suddenly and especially more than one in quick succession there are more likely to find their supply goes into freefall. So I would suggest you introduce the formula feeds but then continue pumping at work for a bit longer. Ideally continue pumping at the same times but gradually pump less and less. If you've already given up pumping then keep an eye on it but you may want to reintroduce at least one pumping session during the day to keep your supply up - and then taper it off until you are just pumping a trickle. (Clues you may be having problems would be extra wakings where she seems hungry, difficulty achieving a letdown, frustration at the breast).
The other 'principle' is to keep the existing feeds at regular times so your supply adjusts accordingly - which you are doing.
It also helps if you do bf feeds at the weekends and during holidays (although you may be slightly uncomfortable at the beginning of a working week and need to express a little for comfort at work).
3 feeds a day is enough that you should be OK. We've had a couple of people on the working mums thread on the bf board who've experienced some problems maintaining fewer feeds but one I'm thinking of particular went to only 2 feeds. The general rule is also that the younger the baby when combined feeding begins the harder it can be to maintain supply.
At her age I would offer 6-7oz in a bottle (with formula you've got less worries about any being wasted) and see how much is left at the end and you may take a couple of days to work it out. With expressed ebm a baby often takes a little less because it's absorbed more efficiently and has a slightly higher fat and calorie content (So a 4.5 month old baby may only take 4-5oz of ebm but the same baby take 6oz of formula).
HTH
Good Luck
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thanks for the nice advise! i did not thought of giving her the breasts even on week end, if i see i start to have low supply, then i will try then! so far i never had supply problem, more too much milk at about 3ms than not enough so with luck i will manage! i keep all the feeds at very regular times as we are now on a 4 hours easy, so i hope it helps too!
well for the formula, she seems to eat less formula than the expressed milk! she was eating about 6oz and now barely takes 4 the last days, with me or at the day care!! i tasted the formula milk and the hypo-allergic that i am using is very salty as taste compared to the ebm!! so she probably has to get used to, but as she does not wake up at night or seems hungry i do not worry too much yet!well, or try to!!! :D
muriel
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Hi everyone!
About 4 weeks ago I started dd on a formula feed at night. She will occasionally get an additional 3-4 ounces during the day if we're in a bind or if she wants more. My question is...ever since she's been on the formula her poop has been green and pasty. Is this normal? I read somewhere that green poop can be a sign of too much iron or a virus of some sort. What do you gals think?
A little background....she started on Nestle Good Start and last week her dr switched her to Enfamil Lactose free. She is very gassy and seems to have tummy aches all the time. So dr thought maybe it's a lactose/dairy sensitivity. She seems to have the most problems during naps and bedtimes. She's a tummy sleeper and will not lay flat on her belly. She sleeps on her knees with her legs tucked under her. It's as if she doesn't want to put pressure on her belly. Any suggestions on a formula for this issue as well? Think it's a lactose problem?
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Hi well here in the netherlands the mid-wifes advise you to use hypo-allergic milk based on soya and not cow milk when you combined the BF & formula to avoid allergy or other problems. The make i use here is called NUTRILON, i am not sure you find that where you are but this one works for us so far (even if the taste is salty! :))
i hope it helps!
muriel
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How many feedings do you bf and how many do you ff? Does anyone bf and then give some ounces of formula? How much?
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How many feedings do you bf and how many do you ff? Does anyone bf and then give some ounces of formula? How much?
well i BF in the morning at 7.00
FF at 11.00 and 15.00
BF at 19.00 and 10.30
so i always do or BF or FF at one time, i know some friends did the BF and if they had not enough milk would complete by FF, they would just do a full bottle and see what the baby take then.
well now my LO has catch a cold so i am doing BF all the time to give her more support! for me the combined feedings is nice for when i work, i did not like so much expressing! but the doctor advised me to BF during week end and hollidays if possible until 6 months, then the babies get a bit stronger and get other foods too.
well i hope it helps!
muriel
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newmama12 - When I started topping up after a bf with a ff, LO was about 4m old(ish) and I was giving him 5oz of formula which he was guzzling and 6oz just before bed (that was on 4 bf and 3 ff a day). Our circumstance was that DS had been losing weight bf alone, so it was to get him back 'on track'.
I guess it would depend on how much your LO wanted! I just did that because my paed said he should be having 25oz per day of formula, but I was far too lazy to get up first thing and faff around with bottles :) So, he'd get just bf first thing and then the rest with top ups. It was trial and error with us.
HTH
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New Mama,
I BF my girls first and top off with formula. I let them eat as much as they want -- actually I should say, BF one of my girls and top off with formula as my older twin has decided it's *much* easier to eat from a bottle than from the breast. This breaks my heart a little bit, and I still put her on the breast as much as I can and as much as she'll tolerate.
My girls are five months old -- usually my BF girl takes about 60-100cc after the Breast, but it depends on the time of day. My girl who prefers the bottle has just recently started taking about 180-200cc per feed. She gets half EBM and half FF. They both take the Similac Sensitive formerly Similac Lactose Free.
Hope that Helps!
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Hi i have also discovered this thread at a good time!
Beth is 7 weeks old and we have been succesfully combining breast and formula since she was 3 weeks old. She has just started to reject the bottle tho so we are now giving her 2 bottle feeds a day. i have had no probs with my supply cos we always gave the bottle at the same time so my body ajusted. Now we are giving 2 bottles in a row tho (10pm and 1.30am) will that effect my supply? I am still BF at 4.30am, 7.30am, 10.30, 1.30pm, 4.30,6.30and 7.00(half a feed before bath half after).
Also do you think she isnt taking much on the 10pm feed cos im cluster feeding before that... should i not cluster feed?
A little background....she started on Nestle Good Start and last week her dr switched her to Enfamil Lactose free. She is very gassy and seems to have tummy aches all the time. So dr thought maybe it's a lactose/dairy sensitivity. She seems to have the most problems during naps and bedtimes. She's a tummy sleeper and will not lay flat on her belly. She sleeps on her knees with her legs tucked under her. It's as if she doesn't want to put pressure on her belly. Any suggestions on a formula for this issue as well? Think it's a lactose problem?
[/quote]
Yesterday i saw a BF HV and she said she thought Beth could have become lactose intolerant. She also has really bad stomach pains and will only sleep on her side. She will scream all the timne she is awakle on bad days. One of the signs of it is green pooh (also explosive poohs and foamy poohs) so i would guess the green pooh has more to do with the intolerance than anything. She also told me that my BM was higher in lactose than formuler, so to give something caslled "colief" which has an enzyme in that helps the body digest the lactose better. We only started yesterday, but will let you know if it helps. You can also put it in reg formuler instead if changing to lactose free.
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Now we are giving 2 bottles in a row tho (10pm and 1.30am) will that effect my supply?
Always hard to predict what will happen to people's supply as everyone is different. I guess theoretically some babies would be beginning to sleep through night feeds anyway and their mother's supply would adjust accordingly. However if this means she gets a lot of calories overnight then she may demand less from the breast during the day.
But you do talk about overactive letdown so you may have an oversupply situation anyway and have a bit of slack. You also have plenty of breastfeeds in the day to kepe your supply up so I don't think you should worry unduly.
I would just see how it goes. If you begin to worry you could always pump just before you go to bed to send those 'milk production signals' and build up an ebm stash but you may well be fine. The older your baby when you start to 'skip' nightfeeds the better - doing it now will have less effect than if you'd started this 2 feeds in a row when she was a few weeks younger.
As for the cluster feeding - it might not be a plan if she has this foremilk imbalance issue. If you do it - I would try and stick to one side for a block of time to make sure it's rich in hindmilk and the volume of milk is smaller. I would follow her cues. At this age some babies really want to cluster feed. Others aren't so bothered.
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Hello ladies! This is my first time posting on this board, and possibly I should be doing so on the main bottle-feeding thread, so please feel free to move it if necessary!!
Anyhow, my twin boys are 10 months and now only get one breastfeed a day when they first wake up. They then have a bottle of formula mid-morning 6ozs, mid-afternoon 6ozs and at bedtime 7ozs. The last couple of days, they have been crying when they finish their bottles - very much giving me the impression that they want more. I upped their bedtime bottle to 8ozs last night and they drained it and cried again! I didn't give them anymore and they went through with no more milk till 6:30am.
Of course, I don't know how much breastmilk they take in that first feed, but I feel reluctant to up their bottles in case that means they take less breastmilk. I'm also thinking that at this age, perhaps they should eat more solids rather than have more formula? But I'm not sure.
So what do you think I should do?!?!?! Should I give them more formula? Or....?
Thanks!!
Vicky
xx
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I have been breastfeeding my dd for almost 8.5months now and in fact she only had her first bottle of formula this week due to me having to go on antibiotics and affecting the breastmilk. I have been expressing every morning since she was almost born for her6.30pm feed as I never seemed to have enough by that time of night. LO sleeps through, has done since 7 weeks with a df, so don't do any night feedings... She is fed at 6.30am, 1030am, 2.30pm and 6.30pm give or take half an hour...... Solids are well established. I am now considering switching to formula or maybe doing half and half. I am so over expressing in the morning and the past two nights have just given a bf at 6.30pm followed by the top up formula. Resaons for thinking about stopping is that I am beginning to feel run down and like the doctor said, no point having baby thriving if mum isn't! She is probably almost ready to switch to 3 feeds a day shortly as I've noticed her two middle of the day feeds are a lot shorter. I don't want to completely stop as I don't want my milk to dry up then regret the decision. If I was to continue feeding what are the best bf's to keep. I was thinking about keeping the first one in the morning and then using formula. The only reason I would keep one feed is for the goodness of the breastmilk, not because I really want to keep feeding her (but I do like feeding her). But then I am worried that my milk will eventually just dry up anyway with only one feed? Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. My LO has never been sick (touch wood) and I'm sure it's because of my milk. However, maybe 8.5 months is enough and I've given her a great start already. I've never had any goal for how long I wanted to feed - in fact I'm very impressed and proud of myself for feeding her this long!
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Hi 'elf'. Congratulations for breastfeeding for so long. Similarly to you, I cut to one breastfeed a day when my twins were 10 months old. I kept the first thing in the morning feed and only just gave it up this week. :-( Firstly I switched the bedtime feed for formula for a few reasons - I was normally dehydrated by then (!) so I wasn't confident with my supply. Also, I wanted to be able to see how much milk they had and to persuade them to have more if necessary in the hope that they'd sleep better! I then gave up the mid-morning breastfeed then mid-afternoon until I was left with the first thing in the morning feed.
From what I understand, it's perfectly possible to continue with just one breastfeed for a considerably long time if that's what you want to do. And a baby/toddler apparently only needs about 50mls (2ozs) of breast milk a day in order to still get the immunity advantages! So it's definitely worthwhile persevering with at leas tone feed if you can.
Hope that helps! And good luck with whatever you decide.
Vicky
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Thank you Vicky. I too like to give a bottle (ebm) as well as breastfeed before bed as I too noticed many months ago that by 6.30pm my milk supply was low as she was always looking around for more after the bf. I am getting too tired (and slightly over it!) to express any more so it is definitely going to be a bottle of formula before bed and will continue with the rest bf's for a little while longer until it is just that morning feed. Thanks for the advice. I noticed since she has had a few bottles of formula this week that she got a bit 'clogged up' with poo, like when we started solids so definitely want to wean her into the formula and give her some prune juice to help her get get used to it... Thankyou so much for responding - I spent all day yesterday torn between just giving up altogether and just when I think about giving up I think it's crazy as she is still a good efficient feeder (although quite distracted so have to do it with just her and me) and also has no teeth yet so part of me thinks continue and wean slowly.... Thanks again :)
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Feeling soooo very guilty!!!
My LO was EBF till 2 and a half months after which he started fussing at the breast in the evenings and obviously the first assumption was low milk supply with doubts raised by all and sundry in my family. Sooo i started giving him formula feed once a day in the evenings. But after reading all the articles of fussiness in the evenings and the 'open gut', i wish i had not done so and had continued BF..he is 4 months now and i still give him formula before sleeping (around 90ml). But i have never got rid of the guilt completely. Expressing was an option, but it used to wear me down while getting one or two oz only. Just need some support and wld like to hear that it was OK! to have formula fed.. i am now planning on starting solids and getting rid of formula.
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Hi sunnysmom. Guilt is not a constructive emotion but it plagues all of us as mothers!! It's as if whatever we do, we feel guilty in case the other option was better! I have a friend who outright resisted giving formula but then felt really guilty when baby dropped a few centiles on the weight chart and it was discovered she did have a genuine supply problem (very rare, by the way). So of course she feels guilty about her decision! Know that you did your best at a very difficult time. We don't have to do the absolute best or be perfect in order to be doing well, IYKWIM.
If you were very determined to get off the formula, you could start expressing in the evenings to re-build your evening supply. It probably wouldn't take more than a week or so of expressing and feeding before your supply was up again, since you're still doing other breastfeeds. Express for a couple of days, then breastfeed baby instead and top-up with bottle whilst you express to stimulate the breasts more (even if nothing comes out, you're signalling to your body to produce more milk).
Having said that, your baby is getting marvellous benefits from the breastmilk that you are providing and you've done great to breastfeed at all to 4 months. You needn't put a black-mark on the great work you've done by feeling guilty.
Hugs,
Vicky
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Hi Vicky..thanks for the encouragement. I just changed LO's doc and the present doc has supported the fact that i have enough milk supply as LO has gained very well for his 4 month age. He has tripled in weight from his birth weight and that cld not have happened with a 60 or a 90 ml of formula..so now i am slowly getting down the amt of formula that i am giving him and it has gone very well for the past three days. I am now on 60ml from 90ml topup and LO seems to be fine with that. ;D also i have decided to delay giving solids for another two months :) and really work on giving the best of BF..tnx a lot :-*
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Sunnysmom - that sounds great! Well done you.
Vicky
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Well, I have stopped feeding at 6.30pm and give my (almost 9 month) dd formula but am still breastfeeding the other feeds, 6.30am, 10.30am and 2.30pm... She has had a few bottles of formula at some of these feeds over the past few days as we were on holiday but she is starting to show signs I think of cutting out the 2.30pm feed as yesterday she drank 100ml but at 6.30pm she didn't really want her bottle and only took around 60ml. She still slept through the night so was obviously not hungry. Today I didn't feed her at 3pm but gave her solids as usual at 5pm and she took around 180ml before bed. She actually took the same amount of milk but just at different times. Is it best to keep up with 4 feeds or give 3 feeds, making that final one before bed the biggest one?
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Hello,
I need help. I am trying hard to get my 3.5 month old to take a bottle so that I can get a bit of relief or when I'm out I don't have to disappear to feed her. She is not liking it. I have tried different nipples and I'm using breast milk. I get it to the right temperature, everything......does anyone have any tricks? Please? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Joanna
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Perhaps give her a bottle first thing in the morning when she is at her most hungriest? I got my husband to give the first few bottles of expressed breast milk and that worked really well. She takes a bottle from me and I'm still bfing her...
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I tried that but its not working. She even screams more when my husband tries. Has anyone tried introducing a sippy cup earlier than 6 months?
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When DS wouldn't take a bottle, the hospital suggested cup feeding instead...they gave us a little plastic cup with a little lip on the edge. It was pretty messy and DS didn't get very much, but he did try lapping at the milk...guess he had a taste so he could get used to it. Anything's worth a go, eh?
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I found with my boys that they wanted milk in a bottle to be much hotter than I thought they would like it. (A neighbour was even pretty shocked when she realised how hot a bottle was when she was helping me out one day.) They refused it point blank until one day I left the milk heating in a saucepan for longer than I intended!! Gradually I have been able to decreases the temperature but they still won't drink it at room temperature!
Just a thought.
Vicky
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Is it possible to keep bfing just the morning feed? I have been doing this now for a few weeks (dd is almost 10 months) as I gradually cut out the other feeds but this morning she wouldn't feed off me, got quite upset as well so I gave her a bottle. She didn't drink it as enthusiastically as I would have imagined so am not sure if her refusal to bf is because her two top teeth cut though 4 days ago (she has been fussy in general) or because my milk wasn't there??? Do you think it has dried up? Should I keep trying, express to boost supply, or just say that's the end of it and congratulate myself on feeding for 10 months? I was quite happy to keep feeding her the morning feed as although I didn't have any major goals because I was quite close to 12 months thought it would be nice to aim for that for both her and I but am starting to think that maybe she now wants the bottle for all feeds? Or should I not be put off by one day? I am quite happy to express to boost my supply... anyone else had this issue? Thanks...
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Oh, I'm so glad to see this thread - never noticed it before, don't know why.
We have combination fed since dd was 5 days old due to low milk supply, my lactation consultant was so worried about her low intake (.25 oz in 45 minutes) that she recommended immediate top-ups while I relactated. Then when I read about "virgin gut", I figured it was already done so I might as well keep a bottle of formula from time to time.
She gets a bedtime "topper" (though often does not drink it) and an occasional bottle of formula when circumstances preclude bf (for example, when I did a part-time job and she refused bottles all day with Daddy, he wound up throwing out all my frozen ebm b/c it spoiled waiting for her to drink it).
She is happy healthy and thriving, though we are now in an odd situation where she is having sleeping trouble (I think it's the 2-1 switch) and wants to nurse to sleep all the time. I have caved too much recently, thinking she is really hungry, so now we're trying to get that sorted.
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Hello everybody,
Ive read all your messages since the beginning and they really helped me out. In the way that I have a baby boy, he is 3 weeks old now and the problem is that he started having a lot of reflux so the doctor said to give him a medicine called Gaviscon at the end of the bf, that helped a little bit, but the problem was that he didn't gained a lot of weight since we came out of the maternity, so we started giving him formula after breastfeeding, it is a special formula AR. He seems to appreciate both, he is not denying the breast nor the bottle, so I think is OK. It is still hard for me to read his cues, as is my first one and it is not easy.
So coming back to the point, I feel as well everyday bad of giving him formula, as apparently my milk is not enough and for me it is like I'm not the best mom because I'm giving him formula. But anyway, at night I give him just my breast and he is vomiting everything, so I think at the end I will continue sometimes to give him my breast combined with the gaviscon and then the formula. I feel like the whole day I'm sterilising the bottles the pump and that back again I'm pumping a little bit of my milk to give the gaviscon and then the formula.
Well, I wanted to share this.
Monica
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Hugs, Monica, I know it is tough, I had to do the same thing. I'd encourage you to investigate ways to increase your supply. If you are giving formula at every feed on a long-term basis, you may not be able to keep up with his needs as he grows and eventually wind up on 100% formula before you are ready. We managed to get it down to 1 bottle a day, and her weight gain has been fine since we started working with the lactation consultant.
Hugs! The first 6 weeks are so hard even under the best of circs.
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I have a 4 and a half month old daughter and she has been exclusively breastfed. I am introducing a bottle so that I can work very very part time, etc. I want to alternate between breast and bottle at my choosing. I've been following Tracey's method since yesterday morning, and after much time and resistance at each feeding she will accept a bottle. She has had 6 bottles in the last 16 hours and no nursing, the last 2 bottles being about 5 ounces each of formula. When is this considered a success? I want to be able to nurse her and give her at least 1 bottle a day to keep up the bottle feeding. How will I know I can do this, when she accepts the bottle with glee?
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Sounds to me like she's happy now to take the bottle. If you want to carry on BF, you'll need to keep on going with that pretty regularly otherwise your supplies are likely to slip...I'm sure there are others who can give you better advice on keeping up with that.
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Well, I have twin girls and they are 4.5 weeks old. I've been giving about an oz of formula at the end of each bf for all their feeds since they were in the hospital because of birthweight. But, I think my supply had gotten better, the twins have gained a huge amount of weight, and I get the feeling my supply is now slipping again... so I'm thinking I will just do BF only. I hope it's not too late. I'm finding it too frustrating with doing bf and formula bottle as it takes long doing both combined.
Well, we'll see how it goes for the next couple days. I hope this works out okay.
Wei
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*sigh* Just wanted to express that i'm thoroughly exhausted alreayd and it's not past day 1 yet! The girls woke up every 1.5 to 2 hours looking for food and they sure did seem hungry (hopefully they were... kinda hard to notice the real cues when you're so tired already) ::) Did anybody successfully go back to just bfing in general (one sided) after doing regular formula top ups?
I keep telling myself 2 more days and then we'll see if there are any results. If not, then I'll have to come up with something else.
alright, time to nap while the toddler is napping too!
Wei
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Wei, YES! I had major supply issues when my dd was a newborn and was using 1-2oz formula toppers at every feed from Day 5 onwards. In order to compensate for my supply, I pumped after every feed, then gradually as my supply got better I could use EBM instead of formula for the toppers, then gradually reduced the amount of EBM given until she was only nursing at about 6 weeks (with the exception we always kept the top-off at bedtime).
I think the feeding on demand method will work quicker, but it is very exhausting. If you can keep it up those 2 more days you should see major improvement.
Be sure you are drinking LOTS of water (I sometimes have to drink 5L if it is hot or dry in the house), eat plenty, rest as much as possible (let the housework go!). You can also try taking Fenugreek alone or with Blessed Thistle to help boost your supply. If you can get help at home and just go to bed and nurse for a couple of days, that would be the best thing.
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Hi I've been combining since I found out that my dd lost a lot of weight after only being bf for 4wks. I topped her off with formula in a bottle but now she takes ebm + formula in a bottle.
I am wondering how does your LOs poop look like when they are combined?
my Lo's poop is yellow runny with white lumps. Is it formula combo related or something else?
I keep forgetting to ask the PED.
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That sounds like normal poops. There's a whole sticky thread on the Breastfeeding board with pictures of the wide range of normal breastmilk poop. DD1 who was combo fed had grainy yellow poops like thick mustard or thin peanut butter. DD2 who is EBF is having more greeny-yellow and more liquidy poops, but still with some grains in it. Both are normal.