Support for Raising Grumpy Babies

[worriermum]

Hi,

turns out my lo is grumpy/textbook. Its rather ironic really as the first thing my midwife said when she so lo was 'wow you've been here before you look like you're an old soul' so you could imagine my suprise when that was an option for in the know your baby quiz. The other ironic thing is that my lo is named after his uncle who died in an accident whilst I was pregnant, my grandfather who also has the same name passed away 40days after my uncle (his son). So it seems that maybe he carries more then just a name??? or maybe Im reading too much into it???

We're not sure if he's actually a grumpy baby as we've recently found out that his spine is out of place which would be causing him to be unsettled & a bit cranky. We're getting that sorted so hopefully after that he might be textbook??

He seems to be ok with being swaddled, he now enjoys his bath, and at times can be content having his nappy changed. It seems he tends to be grumpy when tired or got wind.
Anyway is there anyone else with a grumpy lo who could offer some tips/advice on dealing with them?

I wonder how can such a cute wee thing be so grumpy 

[angelamk1]

Hi,
I have a grumpy/textbook too.  Actually i redid the test the other day and he seems to have moved more towards being textbook, but he still looks at the world with this serious look of consternation.  I try and meet all his needs asap and if i manage that we usually have a good day.  Things like picking him up when he first cries after a sleep and feeding him straightaway, no mucking around.  Even then i'm trying to get my bra etc all sorted and he's winding up as is he's starving to death.  If i am really religious about getting him down to bed on first-third yawn he goes down like a dream otherwise he needs to cry off which stresses me out. 

Saying that though sometimes i can't meet his needs quickly and then he usually is easy enough to calm down when he gets what he wants which is good.  Since i've figured him out a bit more he's much less grumpy! 

[worriermum]

Congrats on figuring you lo out. Thanks for your reply. would be keen to know How old your lo is? and how long have you been doing EASY?
Today is really my first day but this week is quite unsettled as I've had appointments to go to every 2nd day which seems to upset things. He can be quite good also if I read the signs right. I just get a little lost when it comes to E to A to S as often he seems to have finished eating, so I burp him & when he seems settled I continue with A (change nappy, then on his back for some kick time & bicycle his legs) but then he shows signs of wind discomfort so I burp him, then he seems to be hungry. So often Im trying him at the bottle throughout E-A-S could this be causing him confusion as to what the routine is? (might do this as a separate post?)

Thanks

[angelamk1]

DS is 8 weeks now.  We have been using a routine with him since about day 4, when we came home.  It's not strictly an EASY schedule but it works for him.  The most important part of the E-A-S thing is putting him to sleep awake.  Its good to follow it as it means you have a better chance of knowing what they need.  Are you breast or bottle feeding?  Appointments and visitors can so quickly muck you up when they are this little.

Maybe the signs that you think are wind discomfort are tiredness.  DS often gives me his i'm hungry thing before i put him down to bed, but i know i've given him a full feed and he's yawning away so he usually pops off to sleep straightaway. 

We borrowed this Dunstan baby language dvd which teaches you how to read your baby's cries. It is fantastic and since then we have been able to figure him out 90% of the time - both DH and i.  I got it from our library.

[worriermum]

Im bottle feeding, had problem after problem with breast feeding. Still having to heat pack & massage lumps from mastitis yet I havent been breast feeding for a couple of weeks.
He does seem to be a lot better the past 24hrs, as I have figured out that he eats about 140mls each feed, so any sucking/mouthing after E is probably not "im hungry'. he is put down awake sometimes he might be rather drowsy but he's never fully asleep. Was able to do E-A-S today without too much drama's. About to do bedtime routine so hope this goes well.
Im not overly strict either with the routine, my DH & I have discussed how we should approach it and the one thing that seems important is doing E-A-S-Y but the timing on them to be flexible. We find the cluster feeds & naps in the evening too much as it doesnt fit with our lifestyle - so we wake him about 6.30-7pm (last feed wouldve been about 2.5hrs) do half feed then bath, massage, then 2nd half of feed cuddle & some talking/reading then settle to bed.
So he's going down around 7.30/8pm. Worried about trying DF @ 10-11pm, as I wonder if he will need burping & if it'll wake him. Will try DF tomorrow night when DH can assist if it all goes wrong! (he drives for his work so needs his sleep during the night, last thing we want is a sleepy dad driving around).
Might look into a dvd or similar on baby language - anything to help understand him as it shows to be true that if you can figure out what they're trying too say life is so much easier for the whole household! Will check out my public libary.

[angelamk1]

That sounds a lot like my evening routine.  I do a split feed like you rather than cluster 2 hourly.  This way i put him down at 7pm and we have the evening together till i wake him at 10pm for a long feed.  It means we get adult time to ourselves.  When he is unsettled at this time and i give in a feed him at about 8.30 it just feels like i haven't had a break.  That doesn't happen often thank god as i really enjoy that time.  Although when he is unsettled in the evening he tends to sleep right through from 11pm to 7am.  Not that i do with overfull boobs!! 

I differ from BW in that i do a short am and pm nap with a long one around noon as when they get older you want to have this longer sleep as the last one to go.  So not really the EAS schedule like in the book, but i really like the other BW stuff like shh/pat and her general philosophy on babies and treating them with respect.  Her advice and the advice on here is just fantastic.  I used to nanny so i've kind of picked up all sorts of things along the way and come up with my own routine. 

Bummer about the bf, i had an awful first 3 weeks and got so close to giving up but then saw a lactation consultant and it just came together at last and now all good.  I really wasn't prepared for it being that damn painful and if New Zealanders weren't so crazy about bf probably would have given up.  The thought of having to deal with the judgment was all that kept me bf.  Would rather have had the labour again!! I'd really struggle i think to keep him awake for 1.5 hours if he was bottle feeding as the feeding would take about 10 mins!  Tricky. 

[worriermum]

I do like how the BW approach to things can be flexible around what works for lo and parents. And the whole respect & understanding makes sense on so many levels, I mean thats what you want to teach your lo as they grow so makes sense to 'practice what you (will) preach'.
I still need to have a good sit down and read my BW book as Im yet to do that, so far its been a quick skim read to get the main points. My aim is to do that today while DH takes care of a few things -hopefully.
I assume you're not a NZer but live here?
So you undertsand my stresses with the whole not BF and now bottle feeding. I came home from hosp. with grazed nipples & then when milk came in was so engorged lo couldnt latch - no amount of expressing or heat or anything would help. so I had to express to feed him. Eventually nipple shells worked but grazed nipples soon turned to severly cracked nipples. This what I think caused the mastitis. The big problem started when he redused the breast all of a sudden, my let down was slow and the bottle obviously wasnt so he seemed to make his choice on what he wanted. We perservered but I was in so much agony from the infection & cracked nipples that it just caused sooo much stress on me which then he picked up. This was all in my 1st 3wks also. My midwife visited and suggested to go with bottle, she had concerns that I would end up with PND and to be honest she may have been right. But I still feel bad about it and now wonder wether I should've gone to a lactation specialist? You just feel soo much pessure from everyone to BF its hard to enjoy bottle feeding as you feel like a failure. What made me do it was support from my mum & midwife as they had seen what I had been through & was going through an lo was doing better on the bottle. I didnt do labour (was elective c-section as lo was footling breech) the most painful & hardest part of all so far has been around BF. I think my boobs (this time around) are for ornamental purposes only!!)

Might look at doing what you are around the nap time. Good idea for the long run.

Thanks for lending your ear

[angelamk1]

I'm a kiwi too, didn't realise you were.  Yeah there is a lot of pressure with the bf thing here.  The research may recommend it but so many of us were ff with no major problems (i was) and it can't be at expense of your own wellbeing. Those first few weeks are so difficult with the physical recovery (esp after c-section), hormonal changes, psychological adjustment, sleeplessness, anxiety and frustration trying to figure out your lo, that the last thing you need is pain every time you feed.  When my pain was bad i felt it was affecting our bonding as i was so negative.  I'd just be dreading him waking and being hungry.  And really couldn't stand the thought of putting him on and having that pain. I was lucky that a friend said it wasn't normal and advised me to see lact cons. Then they had a cancellation for lactation consultant appt otherwise i was giving up.  Whatever you do know that you made the best decision for you and your lo, because you did.  No one makes that decision lightly and on the good advice of your midwife.  At least you have your boobs for other purposes, ;-) i'm just the food factory!!  We've got a lot of allergies in both our families so will be bf for ages, prob till the next one comes along. 

lo has been especially grumpy the last few evenings.  Not sure whats up but a real increase in crying.  Can't figure out why and it's so frustrating.  fingers crossed for tonight.  I've just tried to have a nice quiet day at home with the routine spot on and so far so good.  We're off for a walk now as the sun is shining.  Where in nz are you?

[worriermum]

Im in rotorua, where are you? Thanks for your support, we do make such an issue out of bf, its even on cans of formula how breast milk is the best option. Well my lo is doing better with our decision. (just have to keep reminding myself of that!)
bummer about the grumpy evenings - it is hard figuring out what they want. Glad you've had a great day - all the best for the evening.

[angelamk1]

I'm in Auckland but grew up in Rotorua. Went to Malfroy Primary School then moved up here.  I love Rotorua and we get back at least a few times a year.  We're coming down in August for a running thing oiut by Lake Rotoiti and we've rented a nice lake house.  LO will be 3 months and theres a big group of us so i'm hoping to let my hair down a bit!

[worriermum]

Wow small world. Mt partner is from here which is why we now live here (after living in Auckland) I like living in Rotorua its central to everywhere for us and its not too big yet not too small.
Im sure you'll have a great time when you're here, and hope you do let your hair down-by 3mths Im sure you'll be more then ready?

[angelamk1]

Yeah it's such a great place.  Bit chilly in winter mind.  I heard it snowed, that must have been fun!  It snowed there when i was about 7 and we thought it was the best thing ever. 

I'm looking forward to getting a bit drunk! It has been about 12 months so it won't be hard.  I've loads of milk in the freezer ready to go.  Thats a bonus of ff, you don't need to worry about what you eat and drink. LO has had ezcema the last few days and so now i'm trying to figure out if it is something i'm eating.  Probably the mandarins, which i love.   

[worriermum]

I have heard that it doesnt take much to get drunk after being on 'detox' for so long. Just make sure you drink water as you go, will help with the dreaded hangover

Hey was wondering what your wind down routine is for you lo?
my lo's mornings have just gone out the window, and today has been the 2nd time in a week where his feeds are fussy and he wont settle to sleep. he's been up since 1.30am on & off dozing & feeding. had about 1.5hr sleep middle of the day. doesnt help I help that ive got mastitis again (a lump from before never went & now the infection has returned) He is 6wks on thursday so wonder if this is growth spurt? but he's not really sleeping, I thought growth spurts they just wanted to feed often?? Have posted elsewhere but my ramble was so long I doubt anyone read it lol
trying shh/pat but no real success and Im soooo tired & sore that I cant sit there for ages doing it. dont feel a lot of support from DH at the moment. its like I shoudn't be fustrated & upset about it all & if I am its like he's angry/fustrated/disappointed in me. arrgggh just a hard day (few days).

hope yours are better

[angelamk1]

During the day he doesn't get much to be honest.  I give him a cuddle and sing him a lullaby and swaddle him in his cot.  Then i turn on his mobile which goes for about a minute and leave him.  Mostly he goes to sleep if i've got his cues etc right.  If he doesn't i leave him to cry for a few minutes and see if he self-settles - it depends on the cry really.  If he won't then i go in and use a pacifier to help him sleep.  Shh/pat doesn't always work as sometimes he just gets more angry. 

I take a chair and a book in with me so i can sit down and read while reaching into his bassinet to hold paci in a rock him.  Otherwise i get more tired and frustrated and find it really hard to stay in there.

At night he goes down at about 7pm.  He has a split feed at 5pm and 6.15 pm with a bath in the middle.  Then at about 6.45 he is taken to his room and it's nice and dark.  He gets a story and a lullaby and then is swaddled into bassinet and left.  Same as above if it goes to custard.  If he just won't settle at this time we'll bring him out into the lounge as he'll sleep on us quite happily.  But we make sure only to do this occasionally when all else fails.  In the middle of the night i never have any issues with him getting back to sleep and i just swaddle him and turn the mobile on. 

I think the important thing is to keep it the same each time, but a different one for day and night.  I use a different lullaby day and night but DH doesn't use one as he feels silly!  He does it different to me. Sometimes we leave him to cry it out and that does work too.  It kind of depends on what type of cry it is and how the day has gone.  If he is overtired then CIO is sometimes the only way as awful as i feel listening to him.  If we do that i turn the monitor down so i can't hear him.  DH handles this much better than me. 

I've just put him down and he's crying now so i'd better go and get the pacifier.  The other thing i've noticed is that if he cries to sleep it seems to affect his mood.  He doesn't sleep as well and wakes up grumpy.  Maybe i'm just paraniod.  Anyway better go he's winding up. 

[worriermum]

It seems we're doing the same sort of thing. Ive just found that I must not be reading his cues right? As Ive tried putting him down when he seems fussy, pulling at hands etc, and other times waited longer but neither seems to work. Today a friend looked after lo so my dh & I could spend time together (we went out for lunch) which was nice, BUT she let him sleep in the lounge where she kept him quiet/asleep with his paci and/or patting his back/bum, he only napped all day. She had 3 other kids with her and so he was often woken with their noise. now Im worried that he is going to need the paci & patting to stay asleep? friend reckons
its ok it will be temporary-he'll pass this stage' but I dont have the energy to be at his beg & call - esp. when he hasnt needed it before. In saying that, to me, it seems he is having trouble sinking into deep sleep during the day & as far as I know they need the deep sleep to function better??
He too seems easier to settle at night. we to tend to let him CIO when we know he is over tired as going to his aid seems to fire him up more. Unless he's at the painful red face holding breath cry-which I just cant leave!
 I really need a moment to sit down & nut out a routine for day & night naps. Soooo dont want him relying on paci. Might have to get the energy to give the shh/pat a real go. They say a few days & he should be self-settling, well Ive done a week on him not so nothing to lose I guess???

hope you lo didnt give you too much trouble at last nap