My son is 6 months old and it is almost imposible to get him sleep...

[tlharmonia]

Hello, I'm new here and might anyone help me.
Since my son, -botond was born, it was always difficult to make him sleep. When all books wrote a new born baby has to sleep 20-22 hours a day, well, he slept only 15-17 hours a day. I thought he was afraid of sleeping.
I belive in spirit wondering so I called a lady that can see what happened in earlier lifes. The only think she told me that he was affraid in folling asleep as he died in this way once. But she didnt tell anything else. He came to this family to learn to trust people.
He is very sensitive (Cancer/Lion, was born on 6th July) with loads love, AND interesred in everything around him. Everything is perfect with him. This sleeping stuff is the only thing we have to sort out asap.
tried the general things, make him sleep in my arms, breast feeding, crying, u know just like the most people that tries to sort it out somehow..Once this, another day the other works, but my waist and back hurts by now so much, also dont have time for myself having a rest, washing my teeth, dressing up, having breakfast till 12, 1 p.m. which is not normal. I know.
From the beginning we had a diary also a plan, u know, sleeping, eating, game time and seemd to be working, even we had that sleeping problem. By now I never know how long he will sleep, so I cant plan anything at all.
On 18th January (almost now) started the technic read in the book: getting him out of bed when he opens his arms to me, and when he stops crying, putting him back immediatly to bed. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. From yesterday it is even wors. My baby is normaly an extra happy bloke, but for 2 days just sometimes. Of course, he is very tired, doesnt sleep for 2 days almost nothing, and when I try to get him into bed, starts to cry like someone wants to kill him, holds me so tiet, and looks for my breast (of course, as he went to bed generally to bed with  brest feeding.) But why is it worse then 2 days before. Why was it better?  It is getting worse, not better. He is like a sticker, always wants to be in my arms  for 2 days.
So pls let me know pls how I can help my son.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Viki

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi there 

Okay. Let's see... I want to make sure that I understand this correctly.    You've been doing EASY with him for 2 days. He isn't napping or sleeping? You want to try an approach that works with his nature (Cancer, past life experience and sensitive) and personality type? I just want to make sure that I suggest things that fit with that. 

What did his days look like, say a week ago, in terms of what time he woke, when he ate, when he slept and for how long etc? And what times you're trying since starting EASY? A bit like this (example below, not suggested EASY and not sure if you've started solids yet?  );

wake-up @ 7am
E - breastfeed @ 7am, solids at 8am
A - play on mat or errands etc
S - 9.30 - 11am nap (any wakings or resettlings?)
E - breastfeed @ 11am, solids at 12pm
A -
S - 1.30 - 3pm
E - BF
A - out for a walk
S - 4.30 catnap
E - BF @, solids @
A- Bedtime routine of bath, story
S - 7pm

Also, when you mention that you've tried other things in the past, what have you tried already? Would help me.

My guess is that a gradual withdrawl / gentle sleep training approach would be better for both of you. There is hefty growth spurt usually at around 6 months, which may-be kicking in here, teething can also disturb them at this age even when you can't see any teeth. And there are milestones that may affect sleep too - is he rolling over or anything at the moment?

Don't worry. We'll come up with a plan together. I think consistency is key. So we come up with a plan that you feel comfortable with, an EASY based on his age group and what he was doing before, and take it from there.

If it helps, we've all been there at some point. I had a rotten time teaching my DS to sleep initially. I then did gradual withdrawl with him, taking it very slowly at first. It worked for my DS's nature and temperament as much as my own. But consistency is key - once you start sleep training, as otherwise it can become really confusing.

Let me know?
Charlotte

[tlharmonia]

Dear Charlotte,

so first of all thanks a lot for the answer
Lets c:

well I started EASY since he was born. I guess when he has a jump of developing I have to reorganise it for his age. Since he was born had sleeping problem b ut just during the they, was and is very difficult for him to fall asleep.
A week ago he still woke up once or twice a night, fed him (breast feeding) and fell asleep again. If I didnt get there by the time he woke up he started to cry very hard . But sometimes he could sleep all night. So I said for myself, I have to sleep too, so I tried the one which was written in the book that u have to wake him up just a bit an hour earlier then he usually wakes up during the night, and then let him sleep. Well, we did it twice, I dont know if this is why, but since ever he sleeps, wakes up once at about 5:30 a.m. then no more then 3 minutes and sleeps again. So I guess this is managed. But as I wrote the biggest problem is the day time napping. What I c he needs 2 bigger  and a smaller sleep (one at 9.30 a.m for about 1 and a half hours, anotherone from about 1. If we go for a walk, he can sleep 2 hours, but @ home only about an hour-more or less, If he wakes up at 4-half 4, then till bed time no more sleep. If he only slept only half an hour then he needs a nep before going to bed too.

Here u r our EASY nowadays:

wake-up @ 6.30-7am
E - breastfeed immediatly when he wakes up, otherwise... he could kill for eating So breakfast in my bed, meanwhile he has his breakfast Im still half asleep. Then when he finishes it, usually starts to stear at me, touching and calling me "mom wake up" he is very cute.,
A - changing nappy, dress up, play on mat (I try to dress up and make the bed, but it depends on his mood. Sometimes he just hangs on me like a stcker, cant eve have breakfast, dress up and staff like that. I know its not normal. ()or what does it mean: errands etc)
S - 9.30 - 11am nap (any wakings or resettlings?) sometimes from 10 to 11.30 depends how I can help him to fall asleep.
E - solid and breastfeeding @ 11-12am,(depends on what time he wakes up. Normaly he eats every 4 hours during the day. Going for a walk, just started the buggy as he hated it too. Now is a lot better, but still crys before sleeping.
S - 1.30 - 3pm-depends on his day, mood, etc.
E - BF, and a bit of solid,/ we've just started giving him solids 3 times a day)
A - out for a walk
S - 4.30 catnap
E - BF @5ish, also solids @6ish so the bedtime breast feeding is rather just to help him to calm down before I put him to bed, as his tommy is full anyway.
A- Bedtime routine of bath (before bathing if he lets me do it I give him baby massage or just a little play-hide and seek, etc in his bed-then bathing. After bathing he normaly starts to cry, knows that that is the end of day, and gets I guess impatient till starting to feed him.
S - 8ish pm Nowadays sometimes he doesnt fall asleep after breastfeeding immediatly, starts to ply till abot 9.30 p.m.
The easier is the evening sleep, by now sometimes he can do it by himself. If Im good enough I stop feeding him by the time he finished eating and only sucking my breast and make him asleep with put down/pick up, and it works quite quickly.

Try put down/pick up during the day too which sometimes works but mostly noooooooooo especially when he is extra tired like yesterday. We moved the whole weekend, so it was very busy, many people, big mess, etc. Tried to put him to bed at 5, screamed till 6.15 p.m. Got very tired so gave it up, he stopped crying and started to cry. He seemed to be sleeping meanwhile screaming  then in the evening it took no more then 5 minutes for him to fall asleep.

U asked me what he does, well he is a bit in a hurry I guess because he already crawls and stends up and looks at his area very carefuly. He is like a 10-11 month old baby with no teeth yet-but I know they can come out any time. He takes homeopathia pill and has a nekless too made from ivy to help him.

By now Im better, not getting nerveous that much when he starts to sream.

Hope I was not confusing with writting everything pell-mell and u can suggest me something.
Also its good to hear Im not the only one with this problem. I just want to help him to let him like sleeping and not being affraid of it. Also want spare time for myself to have a rest.

Awaiting for your answer.

Viki xxx

[Coral]

Hi

First of all it is sooo good to see that there are other people from Hungary reading this homepage

I am so sorry that Botond is having such troubles with falling asleep. In our case when my DD had a hard time falling asleep BF always helped but I had to be carefuly not to make it a habit (So far we are fine -except nights).
So to be frank, I cannot give any advices with regard to this, but I am sure  Charlotte will be a great help.

Don't give up!!!

[A pair of Charlies]

I am soooo sorrry. I lost this thread and then posted a reply last night just a few mins after 11pm so it didn't go through (the site went down at 11pm for some essential maintenance). Which should teach me for waffley replies!

My DS isn't napping well today so I will be back on tonight to go through some ideas and a gradual withdrawl sleep plan that is gentler than PUPD but does take longer - but you can take it at your own pace.

Back later. 

[A pair of Charlies]

Right. Had a good look at your EASY and I think we need to rule out whether it's an Awake time issue or trouble sleeping. I think it could be that he is just OT as the A times are at the high end for his age. BUT he could be fine with the A times...

So I think we need to work out if it's A times or not. This FAQ spells it all out far better than I ever could. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164029.0  Scroll down to the 6month age group and take a look at the different example routines for the different A times. Right now, you're on a pretty long A time and I wonder if that is causing the problem with naps. Try the one for 2.5h A times and tweak the day to the time he wakes up. Make sure you get plenty to eat and drink during the day, especially morning and afternoon - it's fuel for your milk!

Botond is at the age where babes are starting to drop their catnap - many make big jumps in the amount of A time they can handle around the same time as the 6m GS but for my DS, he couldn't do the longer A time yet wanted less sleep. But it did seem to sort out fairly quickly when I stretched his A time a little. At first I stretched it too far and he got OT; we got there eventually! The routines on the link above cover that - examples of how days would look with and without the catnap. They are guides though - babes are all different and they don't always nap as we'd like. If wakes early from a nap, reduce the following A time down so short nap = short Awake time.

Try the shorter A time for a day or so. It might clinch things back into place. If it doesn't and still won't settle for naps, let me know and we can work on sleep training. Stick with PUPD if it is working for you, but be consistent with it otherwise it can be confusing for babes. Gradual Withdrawl is gentler and takes longer, but means you can work at your LO's pace. Simply, it is helping them to sleep - or sitting by the cot encouraging them to sleep, then doing a little less to help eachtime. This can be applied to nursing to sleep, or (in my case) a babe needing Mama's hand on their chest / cheek in order to sleep. It's a lot gentler on them and works well when they are a little more sensitive and 'sticky'.

Seperation Anxiety can also start around this age. Some great tips here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84719.0.

Also, not sure if you'd be interested in this but I found it amazingly helpful for me during the first year. Babes are developing so fast - here's a guide to what's going on in their heads: http://www.livingcontrolsystems.com/wonder_weeks/content_ww.html#introduction  At around 26 weeks of age, babes learn distance. That you can leave. It's a big leap and can affect sleep. 

What do you think?

Charlotte

[tlharmonia]

hi ya,

thanks so far the answer.
Well, it was good to c other EASY-s too, and I'll try the one where the mom lets her babe to be awake for 2,5 hrs.
I think the pupd worked at first but then my mom looked after him, even I told her how to do it, when he started to scream she sang a song. then 2 days nightmare came, was deadly tired and finally could ask my husband to help me. So when Boti stopped crying he didnt put him down. So I guess Boti got very confused. from Tuesday he wakes up again during the night too, and cant fall asleep again. Tis was not a problem until now, a little BF if he couldt  make himself slept back and that was it.. Last night woke up at 1:45 a.m.first, cried 2,5 hrs, fell asleep in my husband's arms, then woke up at 5:15 a.m. and didnt want to go back to sleep,  I was  deadly tired so put him next to me to BF till 7:45. Went to sleep first at 11 and slept 2 hours but only on fresh air, so I ouldnt really have a rest. Now he is awaik will try to put him to bed t 4 p.m.
Unfortunatly ssh/pad and aNY similar like putting my hand on his back (he sleeps on his tommy) or sitting next to him doesnt work at all. Just always wanna get out of bed.
He is a very happy and funny baby, laughes all the time, very nice with other people, never cross just when I wanna put him to bed . This sleeping is the only thing doesnt go well and I really wanna help him. My heart breaks when I c him sufering.
whats your advice, carry on doing pupd or u have any other idea? 2 times a week Im not at home in the afternoon, so someone else has to make him slept for the cat nep. I guess it has to b only me who helps him so he wont b confused, dont I?
also could u tell me pls what the following short words mean: DD,OT, LO
thanks a lot, awaiting for your reply
xxx

[tlharmonia]

sorry one more question: what if he doesnt wake up after 1,5 hrs or 45 min catnap, let him sleep or wake him up?

[tlharmonia]

Hello,

So it was the first day of new EASY, the following u sent me:

E 7:00 wake and bf
A 8:30 breakfast
S 9:30 nap (1.5 hours usually)

E 11:00 bf
A12:30 lunch
S 1:00/1:30 nap

E 2:30/3:00 bf
A
S 4:30 nap ( short, never more than 30 min. trying to phase this one out
   with longer wake time.)

E 5:00 bf
A 6:00 dinner
A 7:00 bath, massage, pj's, story or lullaby
E 7:15/7:30 bf
S 7:30/7:45 bed

Lets c how it worked:

Woke up at 5:15 and didnt want to go back to bed so as I was still soo tired 'cos of last 3 days and nights, put him next to me and so fell asleep on my breast. Let him till 7 a.m. Dressed him up and then 8.30 breakfast (solid). Was very tired so tried to put him napping a bit earlier, well he screamed 1,5 hrs with no stop. I didnt do pupd as it doesnt work anymore. So I put him in bed, set next to him without looking in his eyes otherwise u know...So finally from 10.15 to 11.20 he slept. Nursing, 12.30 lunch,1.45 tried to put him down napping, screamed with no stop for 40 mins. then stopped and started to play with his socks, trousersked them off meanwhile sreaming) (he kic, labels, etc) so I left the room, then later on he called me, I set down next to the bed and he fell asleep immediatly for 35 mins. at 4.20 p.m. BF, at 6 dinner, 7 bathing, massage and by 8 he fell asleep on my breast. What do u think, is it ok for the first time?

[firsttimemummy]

Looks like you are getting good advice - I just wanted to reassure you that you will get there.  Since my DS was born he was a nightmare to get to sleep during the day.  After using PUPD and getting a routine sorted (mainly keeping the feeding to roughly set times) he is a different boy.  To get him to sleep now I just lie him in his cot and leave him listening to his music.  Even if he is playing and getting tired, I can just tell him to go to bed and he will head towards his bedroom.

I know this sounds heavenly and it is.  The only reason I am telling you this is because I know you will get to this stage too.  I would never have believed that my son would do this, EVER!!!    Some days if he is reallllllly overtired I will resort to feeding him to sleep or cuddling him in my arms for the nap but this is really rare now.  I used to dread his sleep times and used to take him out for walks in his buggy no matter what the weather as it was the only stress-free way to get him to sleep. I know how stressful it is.  I used to tell myself that at worst, when he got to being a teenager he would never get out his bed, and any sooner would be a bonus!!

Just persevere with PUPD or whatever works for your child and you will get there.  Good luck

[<Catherine>]

Just to second the previous post and offer some encouragment, I have had some great help on here and have a different baby now. Stick with it and I'm sure they'll sort your problems for you. Good luck

[tlharmonia]

thank you for the kind words, by now hope it'll work, I know it will. Even he had a 1,5 hrs and a 40 mins. screaming today, the day was very calm and full of fun. Anyway it is always easier when my husband is at home too, but obviously it was a great day. I guess tomorrow  the screaming will be even less then today. As  I wrote u I stopped pupd as he just got crazy, rather sit next to him, c his face that he is only sreaming and I know if I picked him up he would immediatly laugh, he is very cheeky, so that gives me force and energy to make it up to the end  
Thanks again for the good advice. I will let u and other readers know how things go on, might help others with same or similar things to solve.

xxx

[tlharmonia]

hi Cath, its nice to read your words.
Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Coral]

Hi

DD= Dear Daughter
LO= Little One
OT= Overtired

You will meet lots of abbreviations in the forum but there is a help here:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=51772.0
(Introductions  part of the main menu)

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi there

Sorry - couldn't get online last night 

If you feel PUPD isn't working, then you are absolutely right not to continue. Because consistency with it is pretty key. Also, it sounds like your LO is on the way to independent sleep... he's getting to sleep comforted that you are near. So that's a great start!!

So, alternative sleep training methods to PUPD. I was thinking Gradual Withdrawl (GW) might be more your deal. It was the approach I used to sleep train my DS in independent sleep. I liked it's gradual nature - can take it slow initially, following how they react. For me, my DS would not sleep without me there - fell asleep with my hand on his cheek or holding my hand etc. So everytime he stirred, he woke because my hand wasn't there / it wasn't how he fell asleep so he couldn't fall back asleep again until I was there with my hand on his cheek etc. Several NWs each night - by 7 months I was sick of it!!

I started moving my hand away just as he was falling asleep, then just before he fell asleep. I took it really slowly - and realise now that I could've taken it a little faster! Got to the stage where he could fall asleep with me by the bed, but I had to be in the room - this is where you are right now?! At that point, I started this plan. Took 14 days. There was crying, but not as much as I expected and it wasn't full on screaming, just cry cry this isn't how I fall asleep cry cry... then he would settle himself down. I never left the room until he was asleep - then after 14 days, he didn't need me in the room anymore. He went to sleep without crying and has done since  . With teething, illness and super overtiredness as exceptions!