My 78th post about EWs

[anna*]

*sigh*

Let me try and summarise
For over a year we endured chronic EWs. Finally got to a consistent wake up time of 6.45-7am at the beginning of December. Stan sleeps in a big boy bed, has a gate at his bedroom door. Stans daddy has been away for two weeks which provoked a severe attack of separation anxiety. Daddy is back now. While he was away, we had some horrible bedtimes and NWs. Last Friday we had an awful bedtime but since then bedtimes have been fine and no NWs.

BUT in the last couple of weeks the EWs have started to creep back. When you understand that from about 11 months old until 25 months old I was awake 95% of days before 5.30am you will understand I have a mortal fear of EWs. Right now he is mostly waking at 6 with an occasional 5.30... I'm scared it's going to get worse.

Stan has a clock/light that 'wakes up' at 6.30am and he is supposed to play quietly until it is time to call mummy. Every night at bedtime we rehearse waking up, turning on his light and then either reading books/playing with his cars/playing in his teepee. He totally understands that if he wakes up and sees the moon it is time to sleep, or play quietly. BUT he seems to be completely incapable of being quietly by himself for even a minute when he wakes up. He runs to his gate and immediately starts crying 'I want mummy! I want big cuddle! Mummy come see Stanley!'. We don't go to him until 6.30 (will just call out to him that it is still night time etc), so we just lie awake listening to him cry for 30-60 mins. It seems that the only way I can get a later wake up time is to (somehow) get him to wake up later.

His routine is
(awake any time between 5.30-7)
Nap 12.30-2. At nursery (3x per week) this is rarely longer than 1hr. At home he will sleep 2 hrs EASILY but I tend to wake him up. The length of his nap seems to have no bearing on the following morning's wake up.
Bed 7.30pm

Do I need to cut his nap back to 45mins? And/or do a later bedtime?

PS: I should add: DH wants to go in to Stan when he wakes up and teach him how to play until morning. Personally, I think that is just going to make Stan want to play with Daddy at 5.30am every morning.

[LucySol]

Me again!!!!

just wanted to share with you what we have done with D and yes i know stan is older that D but i was reluctant to do this but it is heaven!!
A few weeks ago D sleep needs just dropped out of nowhere-not that she has ever felt the need to sleep-and we were getting EW of 5/5.30 but they were different.instead of the grumpy,moaning all morning EW they were 'im up,raring to go and so so happy EW(for her not me ) now,my first thought was push the nap later and later bedtime but this was not an option to me i like my lo's in bed at 7/7.30 so have the evenings to myself.so i decided to cut her nap-a risk yes i know.But i have to say its the best thing i ever did.she was taking 1.15/20 naps and 10/10.5 nights so i dropped it to 1 hr and within a few days we were sleeping7pm-6.30/6.45.Now she is waking later so i have dropped it to 45 mins and we now have a 12 hr sleeper 7-7(wtf!!!!!!!!!!!) never before have i had this.since sleeping 12 hrs she just doesnt need the long naps.she is so happy,we have had no OT bedtimes she has just adapted so well.

i know D has always been a low sleep need lo but its just an idea.have alook at my thread on toddler sleep i think its called cutting nap at 18 months.quite a few people have chimed in with this happening to them and whether they have chosen the long nap short night or short nap and long night.

i di a lot of reading up on this but i wont go into this on here cos its too long.pm me if you want me to give you the website.

[anna*]

How low do you think I would need to go Lucy? 45 mins? He often has 1hr at nursery 3 days in a row and still wakes up early next day.

[LucySol]

yep i would think start at 45 mins and see what happens.especially as you have really already tried the 1 hr.its hard for me to say Anna cos i dont want to make it worse for you but the first day i dropped Daisy she slept till 6.40am the next morning.

i just found that by cutting her nap time she made up for it at night(something she has never done!) but then as she regularly starting lengthening her nights i needed to drop it slightly more.There was the odd day at the beginning that she seemed a bit tired so i gave her an extra 15 mins nap and put her to bed for 7.15 instead of 7pm.

[anna*]

I'll give it a try. It's hard. When I wake him from his nap (even after 1.5hrs) he is crying saying I tired mummy sleep please! I don't think it's going to work 'just like that' because he quite often has 45 mins naps at nursery and still the same sort of night.

[anna*]

He's with my mum today. Went to sleep at 12.45, she's going to wake him up in 10 mins.

[knackered]

Hi Lucy and Anna - hope you don't mind me jumping in as my LO, who's 2 in a week, is a chronic EWer too.

Can I ask Lucy - what A time in the morning did you do? So if your LO woke at 5.30 when would you offer the shortened nap?

Thanks

Anna xxx

[LucySol]

Anna-maybe you need to stick with the 45 mins for a few days to give it chance to work??? it worked straight away for D but OT doesnt affect her too much.

Anna-i set her nap time for 12.30 straightaway but she woke later the following morning so i was able to push her to 1pm the next day.i try and stick to 1 ish now.some days she will go at 1pm,some 1.30pm. i do stick to a 7pm bedtime tho so i dont push it to much later so she is ready for bed for 7.if i feel she is a bit tired i give her an extra 15 min nap and have her asleep for 7.15 instead.

[anna*]

So he had 45 mins nap at his Gran's today, was difficult to wake up but managed. Lots of yawning this afternoon but has gone to bed fine at 7. Not sure what to do about nursery. On the one hand he could have 1hr there because he will be extra 'busy', but on the other hand, he often has 3 days in a row on 1hr naps and i don't think it impacts on the mornings (but, I don't keep logs).

[LucySol]

i guess its worth sticking to 45 mins everyday then,you can always let him catch up a bit by giving him a longer nap and a bit later bedtime if it bites you in the butt. Did he go to bed easier with the short nap or has that been better these last few days anyway?

D seemed a bit tired during an afternoon for a couple of days but as her nights got longer she coped fine.i just kept things a bit low key in the afternoon while she adjusted.

[anna*]

Bedtime has been fine once we got passed that hideous one last Friday.

[sherry lynn]

Checking in on you Anna   Just caught up.

Does Stan have all his 2 year molars?

[anna*]

No Sherry, he's only got one of them.

He went to bed really easily last night at 7, but we had a night waking at 12.45, finally back to sleep about 1.30am. Woke at 6.45am, but I usually expect him to sleep a little later in the morning after a NW.

[sherry lynn]

Do you think he could be teething his next molar?
For us we got those bedtime issues when Lyle was teething. I also had to stop waking him from his nap. We got into a really bad OT cycle about, well I guess 2 months ago now. I'm not saying that's what you should do, I'm just sharing our experience. I still haven't gone back to cutting his nap, and I don't really plan on it until the last of the molars are out. I just roll with the nights though. Sometimes it 10 hours, sometimes it's 11.

My suspicions would really be on teething. Keep an eye out for signs, so that you can feel comfortable with giving meds at bedtime if need be.

[anna*]

I'll always medicate if I feel like he needs it. Bedtimes have been great, it's the mornings that are freaking me out, getting earlier. If I medicate at bedtime it will have worn off by the time morning comes round. I guess I could try medicating at like 3am, but I'm worried about my sleep being more disturbed  If I let him sleep for his nap he will easily do 2.5hrs at home - not at nursery though.