Author Topic: Self settling and practicing milestones  (Read 7201 times)

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Offline sim75

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Self settling and practicing milestones
« on: September 21, 2010, 12:40:56 pm »
My son is now 10 months and we've always done pupd (modified as he got older). We were to the point where we no longer did the pupd as he was able to settle himself off to sleep with me sat next to his cot in the rocker. We have since moved on to doing gradual withdrawal. First I moved the rocker away from the cot (but where he could still see me) and Im now sat on the floor by the door at the end of the cot (where he cant see me but still knows Im there). I was at the stage where I wanted to move on to walking straight out of the room after putting him in his cot since he is quite capable of going off on his own now but he has mastered standing unaided for long periods the past few days so it seems he is now practicing this in his cot when he is put down to go to sleep and so he keeps standing up, peering over the end of the cot to check Im still there and is taking much longer to settle! I have to keep getting up to lie him back down and start the whole process over again. Im now ending up back in the rocker where he can see me to try stop him from getting up (not really working though  ::) ! ).  As always I expect this is just another phase but Im just seeking clarification from others!!

Should I regress and go back to sitting in the rocker where he can see me?
Should I continue where I am by the door (and continually get up to lie him back down again) and just wait for him to move on from this practice before trying to move to walking straight out the room?
Or should I just go ahead with walking straight out of the room and sit it out til the phase passes (where i would expect to have to continually go back in to resettle him which happened when i tried this yesterday)?

I have visions though that he will start practicing walking around the cot soon!! Please tell me they dont practice that in there too?!

Offline deckchariot

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 17:49:27 pm »
{{{{{{hugs}}}}} - sadly, yes, he will practice all his skills there in his cot.....but that is very normal.  I would give him loads and loads of opportunity to practice during his normal A time, so it's less appealing at naptime.  Generally, we recommend doing just pd when they start standing - you'd lay him down, say your sleepy time phrase and leave the room.  Well done on pu/pd and GW - since you're already almost out of the room, I would not go back to being next to his bed.  When you lay him down, go ahead and leave, then if he stands up and is crying for you, then come in and do pd, and leave.  You could just leave to your spot by the door initially, that would be fine. 

If he stands up and is not crying for you, I would not intervene - give him the chance to figure it out and settle himself.  When/if he starts crying, do pd, resume your usual place.  I would keep your interaction as minimal as possible "lay down...it's time to sleep" and say the same thing each time.

Usually, you have to just ride things out and try to avoid creating another prop in the meantime (which is why I would not regress with your GW - you've worked sooooo hard, you don't want to go back).  Hang in there!

hth
michelle
Michelle




Offline sim75

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 01:43:43 am »
I dont think he could practice any more than he does during his A time - he is a bit of a showoff now that he can do it for so long so he doesnt stop!

DH and I also think it's probably best to bite the bullet and move forward with leaving the room and not regress and so I tried this again this morning (although I started out on the floor for a few mins) and it took half an hour to get him settled (usually it only takes 5 mins with me sat in the room). I watched him through the crack in the door and he kept standing at the end of his cot looking out for me. Eventually he would cry out. I went back in and pd with the verbal cues - I did this a number of times. He eventually became increasingly more upset so alas I ended up back on the rocker where he could see me and he still got upset so I did a few pupd (where he gave me tight cuddles so I guess he wanted that closeness?) and then finally settled himself off to sleep!

But then he woke after 20 mins and I had to go back and rock him to sleep because he wanted to play  :-[ (usually will sleep 2hrs unaided)- I did try the pd a few times before the rocking though (this is usually now only really effective with him when we put him down to sleep in the first place, as opposed to extending naps)!

So did I do the wrong thing by caving and going back to the rocker when he was becoming increasingly more upset? I know with him he sometimes needs one last cuddle before going off on his own but does this mean Im creating a prop? Should I have continued with the pd and walking out of the room until it worked or is there a point where you need to stop and revert back?

I will persevere though, what the key thing Ive learnt from sleep training is that it doesnt happen in an instant! I just expected this last step to be more seemless.   ::)

Offline deckchariot

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 17:19:28 pm »
If he needs that one extra cuddle - could you build that into your wind down routine?  You do the usual, put him in bed, say your sleepy time phrase, and give him one quick cuddle, pd, say the sleep time phrase again and go back to your spot by/outside the door.  That way it's not so much a sleep prop as just another part of the wind down.

It's tough sometimes to know whether to keep doing the pd and leaving or to pu and cuddle.  Sometimes you just have to go with your mommy gut there.  My hunch is that you got the 20 min wake up because he was OT because it took him so long to settle down to sleep.  If you keep persevering with pd, that time to go to sleep will shorten.  Obviously with pu/pd if he's inconsolable in the crib, you want to pu - just pd right away again.  I'd say to give it a few more days of picking up where you left off with GW (combined with pd) and see if things improve.  If not, then you may have to start back in the rocking chair and do GW all over again.  I'd try to avoid the rocking as much as possible - that will quickly undo all the work you've done.  But don't despair, one time won't.

Hang in there!!!
Michelle




Offline sim75

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 00:23:32 am »
Thanks so much for your help. I just put him down for his morning nap before I had the time to come on and read your reply and it seems Ive followed your advice anyway. I gave him a big cuddle as part of the wind down and he snuggled back as if he felt secure and comforted, then I left the room. In all it took 10 mins (down from 15 mins yesterday afternoon which was an improvement on the 30mins it took earlier that morning) and I only had to go in twice -once I only did pd (from him standing) and the second time I did pu, gave him a good secure hug, then pd and he went off on his own within minutes.  ;D
So I will continue giving that extra big cuddle before the initial pd as part of the wind down and hopefully this will become enough. It's certainly improving each sleep session so thank you for coaching me through! I'll keep you posted.

Offline deckchariot

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 00:49:47 am »
wonderful news!!!!!  See - trust those mum instincts :)
Michelle




Offline sim75

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 06:33:10 am »
Well it's all gone to pot for his afternoon nap as he has decided to go on sleep strike!  :( I tried to put him down at 320pm after 3.5hrs A time as he was ready and I did the cuddle during wind down. But he fully protested me leaving the room, kept standing up, shouting/crying out, and each time I went back in and laid him down he would laugh and not stay still lying down for more than 1 second and would then start crying again in protest at being put down for a nap  >:( . This repeated so many times I lost count. I ended up just aborting it in sheer frustration and thinking that he will never settle being upset, bringing him back outside and he continued to play. An hour later... (now 4.5hrs of A time!!) Ive just gone and put him down. He protested so I couldnt leave the room, kept standing up and crying and when I did pu to soothe him he would kick away from me. If I pd he would stand up in an instant. Clearly OT!!!  He has finally gone off but the whole routine went bonkers and I cant let him sleep more than 25mins now cos it will be getting on to nearly 5pm!!

It's normal to go forwards, then backwards, before going forwards isnt it?

Part of me makes me wonder if I did the right thing in putting him down in the end if it was such a battle? Should I have let him skip the nap altogether?? I probably know the answer to that one  ::)

Offline sim75

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2010, 06:12:23 am »
Last night he went down ok, nowhere like the afternoon nap - though it was 9pm before he went down considering he slept his afternoon nap until 520pm!
This morning was ok as well, but again the afternoon nap today was a trouble. He just didnt want me leaving the room and I had to do LOTS of pu and pd and he was clutching me tight on the pu (and holding his arms up in the cot to be pu, which is why I did it). I feel like we are back when I started pupd initially when he was 16wks! He is now 10 months. But Im just getting over that hump arent I?? And I just need to continue to reassure him that Im still there right? He will eventually feel ok on his own.. just hoping it's not too far off! I will persevere..

Offline calimama

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2010, 21:31:07 pm »
I don't really have any advice, just sending hugs and a quick note to say you're not alone on this one!!
If it's not one thing, it's another, isn't it?

Offline sim75

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 04:53:14 am »
It's now day 6 of moving out of the room but he is still crying and crying as soon as we put him down - he knows we are going to leave the room. (When I say we, I mean either hubby or I). So there is a lot of pu and pd - and lying him back down but he wont stay longer than even 1 second lying down. It gets to the point where I cant even leave the room cos he cries so quickly in distress. I feel like we have regressed so badly that we are back at that 16wk mark and have lost 6 months of the training I worked so hard on. A week ago when I was putting him down and staying in the room he was off without the tears and fuss within 5 minutes  :'(
I feel torn. I have a target of 2 weeks remaining to get this sorted out so that he can self settle if we leave the room as hubby and I need to be out once a week and leave him to be put to bed by a babysitter. Im also due with my next lo in January and need his sleep well established before she arrives as I wont be able to stretch between the 2 to get him to sleep with her (possibly) in my arms at the same time in the room. But now Im left wondering have I just created a nightmare by trying to enforce this change??? It doesnt seem to be working!! Please help!!!

Offline deckchariot

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 00:43:47 am »
I've been out of town without internet access, so I'm sorry for not responding earlier.

{{{{{{hugs}}}}}} First off, yes, it's very, very normal to have regression when you're doing sleep training.  It could be nothing more than that, and staying consistent with your plan is the best way to get things back on track.

My other thought is that at 10 mos, he might be fighting naps because he's approaching the 2 to 1 switch and needs a bit of a routine switch.  Check out this link and see if you think that could be a factor in what's going on:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

If he needs a routine tweak, that will make sleep training that much harder to do.

Hang in there!
Michelle




Offline sim75

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 00:06:50 am »
Ive been watching out for the 2 to 1 transition and whilst he is now refusing the morning nap (after almost 4hrs A time and when he is well and truly showing the signs of needing to go down e.g. the yawns and almost fallings asleep in his swing outside this morning!) I cant help think it's because of his unsettledness with the standing practice and/or me leaving the room.

Do you think Im trying to get him through 2 things that are clashing (i.e. the standing practice and/or me leaving the room)?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I wish Id made a move to leave the room earlier as part of his bedtime routine  :'(

Yesterday morning became such a battle I ended up so stressed out and so did he. It was awful. And then the whole day turned to pants.  :'(

Im all over the place now and dont know what Im supposed to be doing. I'm losing confidence too.

OK, so this morning for example. I waited for his signs to be ready to go down. I put a fresh nappy on, his eyes were tired and I was certain he would go off straight away. I cuddled him, put him down and as soon as I went to leave the room the problems all started with the constant standing up. Im in and out of the room continually lying him back down and saying the nigh nighs. It escalates with him getting upset, I end up having to stay in the room because he would otherwise instantly cry out distressed. At some points I even left the room to see if the crying would stop - no, it escalated even more. I then ended up back on the rocker where he could see me. That didnt work cos he kept getting up to look at me. I move back to the door but of course he stands at the end of the cot. I keep lying him down. The whole cycle was everywhere as you can see. I dont know what im supposed to be doing anymore!!!!!!!!!!

He has finally gone off but it's such a battle.

Should I just give up trying to leave the room and go right back to sitting in the rocker until the standing up phase passes?

So confused and exhausted by all this...

P.S. Even if the 2 to 1 transition is taking place (great  :( ) then how do I factor all 3 problems at once??????? Arrrrgh!!

Offline deckchariot

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 12:06:15 pm »
{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}  it sounds like both of you are getting pretty stressed over this.  If it will help, I'd go back to sitting in the rocker and doing pd from there.  Then you can begin gradual withdrawal once he's going down more quickly and more calmly.  I know it seems like a step back, but if it helps in the long run, I think it would be worth it.

In terms of the switch in combo with GW and standing issues.....at 10 mos, 4 hrs of A time is not at all unusual.  So it's possible he may need a bit more A time before that first nap.  How much A time did he have this morning when he started showing tired signs?

I would say to come up with a really solid plan - that way you will know exactly what you're going to do.  For example:  wind down, extra cuddle, sitting in rocker, pd with sleep phrase whenever he stands (lay down, it's time for night night), leave once asleep.  Do that for a week, then move chair closer to door....repeat.....etc.  But come up with a solid plan to get you from the rocker to the hallway and then stay consistent with how you handle his standing in the cot.  It's important to use the same phrase and to include "lay down" (or something similar) in the phrase.  You want to be able to get to the point where he doesn't need your touch to lay down.

While doing that, keep an eye on his A times in preparation for the switch.  If he takes a long time to go down for that first nap, I'd let him sleep as long as he wants, then you can shorten the pm nap if you need to to preserve a decent bedtime.  Or if he takes so long to go down for the first nap that he's OT and has a short nap, don't extend, just get him up and go for a longer 2nd nap.  So it's actually possible that the pd training/GW will help move you towards the switch.

I know it's  a lot to consider at one time.  But you can do this!!!  Having a plan really helps.  Hang in there!!!
Michelle




Offline sim75

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2010, 04:08:53 am »
Thanks again for your help. I havent replied earlier as i was observing how things have been changing. I had been working on the A time being between 3.5hrs to 4hrs where the morning A time was on the shorter side as he seemed to tire more quickly. However the past 2 days I pushed this right out to the 4hrs for all A times and it has worked wonders  ;D  Straight down, no fussing with standing up and off he went on his own after I left the room.

So things seemed to have moved on up over that nasty hump.  :D

I do also think that the transition may be starting, or the preparation anyway. So Im tackling this too now, but more easily (dare I say it) since adjusting his routine to make it the solid 4 hr A time. His morning nap was pushed out as a result, starting at around 11am (normally 2 hrs, though he then started taking only 1hr). But today he has napped for 3hrs!! It's now 2pm. Now based on this, I would normally keep him up for 4hrs now until his afternoon nap but I cant see this being a possibility of it happening at all since it would be so late - 6pm. And after a marathon 3 hr nap I cant see him wanting to go down any earlier.  I know it seems way to early (10.5 months) to go on one nap just yet (not saying today will be like tomorrow or the next day  ??? ) but for today - do we just skip it and go for an early bed time? And do I do this for any other days that he sleeps like he has today?  Or should I have woken him after 2hrs to allow him that time to have the 2nd nap still?

In sum it seems (maybe a premature assumption on my part) that the standing up business may have been because he needed that full 4hr A time. Now that his A time has been extended out, he is going off on his own as intended, but his nap times have moved further along in the day (11am) and the transition prep has begun. If he sleeps 2hrs for his first nap he will be able to fit in a 2nd nap, meaning a later bedtime (sometime between 8-9pm). If he sleeps closer to 3hrs for his first nap, then he wont get a 2nd nap but will have an earlier bed time (sometime between 6-7pm).

Id like to see how the next few days go and preferably Id like him to take the lead, with me just working on the 4hr A time.  Is this the right approach? I know you said to try let him sleep as long as he wanted for the first nap but I didnt expect him to sleep so long!

Offline sim75

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Re: Self settling and practicing milestones
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 09:28:16 am »
He went down pretty easily just after 7pm - meaning an extended A time of 5 hours since he woke from the 1 nap that lasted 3hrs today. He was definately winding down but wasnt grumpy with OT which was good. It will be interesting to see how tonight goes, and how early he wakes in the morning!