help with W2S

[Mom2Heath]

Hello,
This is my first post on the BW forum (I hope I am doing this correctly) and I need some help with W2S. My 4.5 month DS sleeps well at night (11.5 hours: 7:30 pm bedtime with DF at 11 pm & 7 am wake up), but is victim to the 45-minute naps during the day. He is on a 4 hour EASY and is breastfed exclusively. I have been working on these 45 minute naps for about a month now. He has no problem initially falling asleep - as long as I swaddle him, he is drifting off within 5 min of me putting him in his crib. He rarely needs any help falling asleep.

The problem is STAYING ASLEEP. He wakes up anywhere from 35 - 55 min after falling asleep (usually at 45 min mark) and he is usually crying and obviously frustrated that he couldn't get himself into the next sleep cycle. I go in and use PU/PD to settle him, then I pat/shush him in crib and stay with him the full 20 min to be sure he is back asleep. Sometimes I find that my presence actually disturbs him and he cries again at the 20 min jolt if he sees I am there, so sometimes I sneak out after the 10 min jolts if he is managing it on his own. So I can usually get him to have two 40 minute naps back to back with about 20 min of awake time trying to get back to sleep. I know he really wants to sleep for an hour and a half or at least an hour, because he wakes up cooing and happy in his crib after the second nap. Then it is usually feed time, so we are able to keep on a good 4 hour EASY.

I would like to teach him how to get past the 45 min jolt into REM sleep/wakefulness, but I just don't know if W2S will work for us. I have tried it once or twice (I know - not enough to really know if it will work - will keep trying). Today for his morning nap I tried W2S and I thought it was working. I stroked his cheek and I could see him coming into a lighter sleep. I patted him as I normally do, but I did not shush (thought it might wake him), and he seemed to be resting well enough, but at the 40 min mark, his eyes fluttered open, and he started talking and cooing, and then he just got more and more awake, and then he got upset. I started pat/shush and he got really upset and I had to use PU/PD and pat/shush for a good 45 min more to get him finally settled back down. He didn't actually go back to sleep. He slept from 9 to 9:45ish and then was crying and fussing with me at his side until 11 am and the next feed. This was worse than when I just wait for him to cry and go in and start PU/PD. I can usually get him back to sleep in 30 min or so, but today he was awake for a full hour or so and wouldn't resettle.

Does anyone have any advice on how to do W2S effectively? I need details. I try it and I feel I make things worse, though I think the principle of it makes sense. 

[~Karen~]

Hi and welcome to the boards!  I've personally never tried w2s so can't offer much advice on it but there is a thread on it which I'll link below and hopefully that'll answer some questions for you 

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64168.0

[Mom2Heath]

Thanks Karen. I had read that string already, but reviewed it again this morning, and I think I will go in a little earlier and try rousing him slightly at 20 min past initial sleep time. I think I waited too long yesterday. I also think I might need to disappear from room earlier because he looked right at me when he did wake up, and at first he was fine, but then he started to get upset, as if to say, "Come on, Mom, get me back to sleep already!"

So a few issues I am having and would appreciate comment on include:

1) he is waking right up at that 45 min mark now - talking and cooing so I get confused and think he has rested enough - he is so awake that I have started getting him up but then 15 min later he is crying and irritable because he is tired again, so I struggle to get him to sleep again. Should I let him get up and come out of room, or should I just persevere with crying and maybe get him back to sleep (or not) using shh/pat and other methods to calm him for remaining nap time?

2) he IS trying to self soothe and get at his fingers during naps, so his arms are almost always out of swaddle when he wakes (in middle or at end of naps), but often (not always) the arms are a major distraction and cause him problems settling down. They are flailing around or he pokes himself in the ear or nose and he cries until I reswaddle him. I feel he kind of wants out of swaddle, but then he can't relax without it. I know there is a whole string on weaning the swaddle, and I will re-read that too.

3) he usually has no trouble self soothing during night sleep. Occasionally I need to re-swaddle him, but generally I don't hear from him for his whole 11 hr sleep - why can't he transfer those skills to day sleep? I know day and night sleep are different - but what exactly makes them so different? Does anyone know?

Thanks! I will keep working on the W2S. Anyone else having success with it?

[susaninlondon]

I have the exact same problem with a 10 week old so looking forward to responses to this post...

[~Karen~]

So he puts himself to sleep for naps in the first place right?  What happens if you don't go in when he wakes up?  Is he chatting or talking/cooing?  If he's just talking/cooing then I'd leave him and see if he puts himself back to sleep.  That's what happened at times with ds2 and I'd leave him for up to 30 mins and more than often he'd go back to sleep and after a while he didn't bother waking up after 45 mins at all.  As he's always been able to put himself to sleep in the first place it gave me the confidence to leave him for a bit and I figured if he can put himself to sleep in the first place, he should be able to put himself back to sleep if he stirs/wakes in the middle of a sleep cycle.

If he's tired and grumpy shortly after 45 min nap then it's probably worth extending.  45 min naps can be OT so he may need to extend his A times.  What is he currently doing?  The average Awake time at 4 months is 1 hour and 45 min. - 2 hours and at 5 months is 2 hours to 2 hours and 30 mins. 

Yeah, might be worth weaning the swaddle if he's breaking out of it.  Sorry, no swaddle use here so can't advise on how to do it but there's lots of info on it on the props board.  Have you thought about trying a grobag if you're wanting to wean the swaddle?

Naps are always harder sleep than night sleep!  Well, in my opinion anyway.  He sounds like he's doing pretty great though so maybe play around a bit with his A times, extend naps where needed but don't mess with his ability to self soothe! 

[Mom2Heath]

So I tried W2S for his second nap today. He went down at 1:10 pm and I snuck in at 1:30. I touched his cheek but he didn't even move, so I pushed my hands under him as if to tuck in his blankets and he roused and sighed and lifted his legs. But he settled right back down into what I thought was a calm, deep sleep so I didn't think I had done it properly. I decided NOT to try rousing him again as I was sure I would wake him and I just sat beside him (I have a little stool to save my hamstrings and back) and I laid my hand on his chest. Around the time that would have been his 45 min jolt, he did have little jolts, pulled his legs up and slammed them on mattress, he turned his head back and forth, and may have even opened his eyes, but not sure, because I was hiding my face, leaning down and just peeking at him through the bars of his crib. I stayed in his room with hand on chest until 2:00 pm and then snuck out. It seemed to me that he was in light sleep for a LONG time, the whole 30 min. Then at 2 I was quite confident he was in a deeper sleep. He is still asleep now (3:10pm) making that a 2 hour nap!!!! OMG! I can't believe it! I won't be convinced until he does it three times, so I will try again tomorrow. I actually think I have to wake him up now to feed. I am amazed. Beginner's luck?

[~Karen~]

Great news!  Well done.  Hopefully not just beginner's luck!  

[Mom2Heath]

Tried again this am and it didn't go as smoothly, but it wasn't a complete bust either.

Today something strange happened with his sleep. I did everything same as yesterday, and except for one time when he actually cried and was almost awake, he did settle back into sleep and I held hand on legs to httj. I left room at 10 am (nap started at 9.05 and w2s started at 9.30). But at 10.07 am he was crying out - almost like mantra cry, but it was escalating and turning into real cry so I went in and did PU/PD once. He settled back to sleep. His eyes were closed as I laid him down. 10 min later he was doing the panting cry again for bursts of 3 or 4 sec, then he would turn his head and seem deep asleep for about 4 sec, only to cry again for a few sec. He repeated this for awhile, it escalated, and he was starting to wake up so I intervened with PU/PD and again as I laid him back down after less than 30 sec of holding him, his eyes were closed. He seemed in deep sleep already. Waited 10 min anyway, but no jolts. WEIRD. Was he having a nightmare? Has anyone else experience this. He really seemed to be in the deep sleep but would cry out and get upset. If I hadn't intervened, I think he would have woken up really mad. I was pretty successful keeping him close to sleepy state, but this has happened before to me and it usually ends up taking 40 min + to get him to go back to sleep.

Any thoughts on this one? Will keep working on the w2s. Need to be consistent for at least a week right?

Oh and btw, he does 2 hours of activity and I work hard to make sure he is not overstimulated or OT. He sits in Bumbo chair and watches me tidy kitchen, lays on play mat (nothing hanging in face) and holds a block or looks at or chews on toys, then we do songs and games on my lap, read a story or two, then I do a tour or the house to wind him down before 4 S routine in bedroom. And he puts himself to sleep every nap time. He's usually out within 5 minutes of laying him down in crib.

[~Karen~]

Hmmmm.......not sure about that one!  At least you were able to help him get back to sleep so well done.  Honestly, it sounds like he's getting on great!  Yeah, I'd try it for a few days before seeing if he can transition between sleep periods on his own.