1.15h naps

[Ima shel Alon]

What do they mean? UT?
I find them even more frustrating than the 40min ones. He is so close to having a good nap (1.5h and more is what I mean by that), why doesn't he last 15min more??? 

[ZacsMumme]

OT for some LOs UT for others. How does he wake - happy or grouchy?
Can you post your EASY and something may pop out

[Ima shel Alon]

Oh dear, I thought it will be an obvious one...

This is from a few days ago:
7:10 Wake up
10:00 S (this is 2.50h A time, it takes him till 10:25 till he is asleep)
12:30 I woke him up (If I let him sleep 2.5h I have a crazy night!)
15:30 S (20 minutes to fall asleep - 15:50)
16:20 Woke up

That day I only got 1/2h afternoon nap. I know from reading around here that the second A time is often longer than the first one. The first A time of 2.50h is really working for us (used to be longer though, now as he is moving more I think he gets earlier tired), so I though if I will increase the second A time by 10min then I'll get a good nap from him.
Now that I look at my notes I see something even more confusing. Six days ago was the first day of tweaking and I gave him 3.15h A time in the afternoon and got 1.40h nap out of him. How does that make any sense?

[ZacsMumme]

How are your days now? Sorry I thought I replied to you a few days ago...must have done something funny
Are you still getting a short PM nap?

[annette.xx]

I know the answer to this one but its complicated!!

they are either UT or OT cos they are middle A time naps meaning you either have to push the A to get a really tired baby to take a really long nap or you need to cut right back to their natural sleepy zone which is usually a much shorter A time...

that makes no sense reading it back!!...il use my baby as an example;

he is 7 months and usually does best with a 2 - 2.5 first A time - most other babies this age do 3hrs A which is the A required to get a really tired long nap - my baby shows tired signs by 1hr 45 A and I put him down which is his natural sleepy zone and he naps a good long nap cos he is soooo relaxed and spot on with timing...other mums will be pushing out to 3hrs 15 7-8 months to get a long nap cos 3hrs A starts to be the middle ground again and their baby is too tired to take a long nap in the relaxed short A way but not tired enough to take a long nap cos they need a little more tiredness built up!!

confused yet??!!!

Annette.xx

[Ima shel Alon]

Annette, I kind of get what you are saying, and funny enough without seeing your post I tried to do it yesterday, but he just wouldn't have it with the short first A time. My LO was always on the high side of A time.

Yes, Sara, I am still getting a short PM nap, but now it established itself for a few days at 1.20h! WTH? I really can't see on him if he is UT or OT, because like a month ago he started to wake up fussing from all naps, even if they are 2h long...
Maybe what I need to do it stretch his second A time by 5min and see what it gives me?
What do you think?

[annette.xx]

yeah I think your bubs may be looking for a slight increase if he likes longer A time cos I think you are stuck in that middle zone - by pushing the A slowly he will soon start to take a longer nap...hopefully!!

[ZacsMumme]

So I am not 100% sure if I have this right. Are you getting a 1.20 AM and PM nap, just AM and 30min PM or longer AM and 1.20pm.

If you are getting a 1.20am and short PM I would leave your first A for now. And focus on the next A as Annette and you have both mentioned. Try pushing just 5 mins or so a day.  Sometimes we went backwards! But we got there. Once your second nap starts to increase then I would try the first A a a touch...but 1hr20 is okay, and as it is your only good nap I would leave it until you get that second one a bit longer.

If both are 1.20 then you can choose which A to gently extend, or do both at once.

He is touchy right? - If so then gently gently push. I found at this age when we were in this boat DS needed very slow increases or he got OT/frustrated.

What do you think? S x

[ZacsMumme]

I forgot to mention. If you suddenly get a short nap after increasing that A, then trhy going the other way just incase it is an OT nap.

[Ima shel Alon]

Our AM nap is always long, the problem is with the PM one. I am going to try 3.15h A time today to see if it gives me a longer one.
The problem is that I am getting 1.15-1.20h PM nap and I don't know if it's OT or UT. If I get a 30min one then I know it's OT, but anything more than an hour I am clueless.
We also started getting NW and I am sure it has something to do with his naps, but I am not sure how to tweak them.
Will let you know how is PM nap went.
Thanks.

[ZacsMumme]

How is he waking? SOmetimes that is the best indication...ie wakes crying OT wakes happy as a clam UT....

Some LOs just sleep a bit less too so if he is waking happy, and then lasting well till BT it may be all he needs for a restorative nap. That said, this is less likely to the be case unless he is LSN.

[Ima shel Alon]

What is LSN?

So yes, we had 1.20h nap. I do think that he is OT then. He often wakes up cranky, but in the past when he had two good naps he woke up happy as you said. The problem is that if I put him earlier I get a 40min nap... agh... I think I need to start all over again, from what A time shall I start putting him down? Shall I do the PM A time 2.5h or is that too short for his age?

[ZacsMumme]

low sleep needs.
I think we had the same issues at this age...and I found it really frustrating because I had about a month of good solid naps, then they started to shorten.

If you are getting a 1hr20 nap with a slightly longer A and a 40min on a slightly shorter A. I would stick with the slightly longer A personally, you can always shorten the last A to bed, or offer a CN if the day is a bust.

The other alternative is to go with the shorter A, and try W2S to get a longer nap with the shorter A so he can catch up, do this for a few days then see what he gives you. But I think he is likely to be in that sticky spot after the CN is dropped where things are a touch wonky for a while.

Is he learning a new skill at the moment? This always also messed with our naps a bit, its like DS would stir in light sleep and wake himself up because he needed to practice (even developmental stuff we cant see as such until after ie cause and effect) but then be grouchy because he was still tired.

[Ima shel Alon]

Wow Sara, what a despair, I can't tell you.
On top of the naps the NW are killing us. I always knew why we have NW and once I change something then it will get better again and it always did, but now is the first time I don't know what is the cause. I thought it's the naps, but then I looked at his EASY diary and saw that even in good nap days we got NW.
I will keep on trying of course, will need to increase now the first A time as he started to wake up after 1.10h in the last two days. Then I'll take the PM nap from there.
Thanks for your help.

[ZacsMumme]

No prob hun, sorry that things are not really improving much. Do you want to post your latest EASY and I will see if one of the EASY mods can have a look at it? Sometimes fresh eyes can see something different?