Worried my milk supply isn't enough - should I give solids at 4 months?

[sarahmay]

Hi
Ironically, this is the one part of this forum where I never imagined I'd be posting on as for the first 4 1/2 months of my son's life we've been breast feeding and it has been going great. I've always had LOADS of milk (we're talking squirting out all over the place abundance!). He's only ever fed for about 5 mins at a time and until recently this has been fine for about 3 - 4 hours. However, in the past 2 weeks he only put on 3 oz (~85g) which isn't much and now weights 14lbs (6.36kg). During this time I've started feeling that I don't have enough milk for him - after only about 3 or 4 mins on the breast he starts fussing, and hitting it with his fists and coming off and crying. If i move him to the other side he'll feed of that for about the same time then start fussing again as above. I have borrowed a special pump from my health visitor and i put this on after feeding to see if there was any more milk in there and as i feared, it was pretty much empty. I'm planning on trying to add some pumping sessions between feeds to increase my supply again but in the mean time I am wondering whether i should give my LO a small amount of baby rice, or something, in the evening so he is not waking up as often hungry (i'm feeding 3 times during the night whereas he used to only wake once).
I know advice is to wait til they're 6 months old so i'm worried it might be bad to give it this soon, but I know plenty of other people who have already started their babies on solids so would welcome anyone's thoughts, plus any tips or advice on how much/when to offer the food or how to further get my milk supply back on track?
thanks
Sarah

[creations]

I personally wouldn't begin with the baby rice yet.  It is so low in nutritional value, you need him to eat something worth eating (esp if there is a question over weight gain).
My preference would be to supplement breast milk with formula if it really was necessary.
Have you had time to look on the breast feeding board?
There are lots of FAQs there to browse through, I couldn't breast feed beyond 4wks so can't say I've read the info there but I'm pretty sure there will be something useful.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=83.0

[teilvnav]

There are actually lots of things besides pumping that you can do to increase your supply... come post over on the BFing board and we'll help you!

Like Creations said, I wouldn't start the solids yet. My DD is also 4.5 months and I know exactly how you feel worrying about supply, but there is a big GS around now so I would say that it is far more likely that your little guy is going through that. The best thing that you can do is nurse, nurse, nurse! If it is still an issue in about a week then you can suppliment with formula, but I'd stay away from the solids for a bit longer.

[Erin M]

there is a big GS around now so I would say that it is far more likely that your little guy is going through that. The best thing that you can do is nurse, nurse, nurse! If it is still an issue in about a week then you can suppliment with formula, but I'd stay away from the solids for a bit longer.

This, definitely!

A couple of other things - have you ever pumped before?  Pumps can be very poor indicators of supply, some ladies are just not able to get anything from a pump and have very good supply.
Is it possible anything else is bothering him - like teeth?  It's early, but it could be.
Is your ds having enough wet/poopy diapers?  Is he generally happy, meeting milestones, etc?
Is it possible that AF is coming back for you?  Many ladies experience a temporary dip in supply the first time AF returns. 

I'm going to have someone pop this over to the bfing board so you can get more eyes on it there if you don't mind. 

[Katet]

I second the Growth spurt at 4months & Breast feeding works on supply & demand & basically what he is doing when he is hungry is trying to get your body to "convert" to the "next step" in milk production. I always pumped a lot with my DS1 & around the 4mo mark I noticed that the milk changed in consistency after the growth spurt.

I remember when I was telling my Mum about the greater demands of DS2 at that stage, she said, you might have to put him on the bottle like I did & I said - no it is a growth spurt, we just have to get through this week (My Mum was overseas for the first 6months of Ds1's life, so didnt' know what I went through there) & she was like "I wish someone had told me that with all 3 of you, I just got told "i didn't produce enough milk"... my Mum bringing up babies who she chose to BF in the 60's & early 70's was constantly told - put them on a bottle & it really upset her to think she could have done differently.

With my Ds1 the growth spurt lasted 10days & I got my AF back at 8 weeks (lucky me when I was still feeding 3hourly) & it would dip every time.

[sarahmay]

hi all
thanks for your comments and thoughts.
Katet - funny, it's my mum who has told me i should give my LO some baby rice! I've always listened to my mum and thought she knows best but maybe I should stick with my instincts in this case.  Can i ask, what does AF stand for? I have pumped before, and i used to easily get 5 or sometimes 6 fl oz out in one go, and that was with a manual pump! That's why i'm concerned now that my supply isn't enough as I can't get any out with my manual pump and barely any out with the mega pump i've hired from our health visitor.
Erin - I think there may be teething issues as well as there's a lot of drooling and fist chewing. We do have lots of wet nappies though. In fact, for the past 4 mornings the poor little chap has woken up with a wet vest. I've not changed his nappy in the night since he was really small and we've never had wee leaking before so he's clearly getting lots of liquids for it now to be leaking.
Teilvnva - you mentioned 'lots of other things to increase supply' - i'd love to hear them as willing to give anything a go!

THanks very much everyone.

[Erin M]

Sorry, AF = menstrual cycle

[sarahmay]

ah right! No sign of my period coming back at the moment, but then maybe it will appear at some point soon. If it does at least I'll know why the dip in supply. I'm a bit worried it's because i started doing a bit too much - i went to the gym a couple of times last week and pushed it quite hard on the treadmill. i used to run half marathons so thinking about trying to get my fitness back... but maybe this was too soon. Do you think this could've stopped my milk production? if it was this, i'm hoping that with more rest and eating loads will bring it back up as this is what i've been doing. Not sure how long my body would take to respond.

[C&B&E]

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/low-supply.html

I found this link really helpful

I have used fenugreek at various points while BF both of my lo's and it really helps.  I love it because it has an almost immediate effect (1 or 2 days) and I don't have to express!  I normally take a high dose for 2 or 3 days, and then once I feel that my supply has increased I gradually start reducing the amount of tablets that I'm taking.  Fenugreek can be bought at health food shops - normally in capsule form and you need to take at least 6 per day for it to take effect

x

[sarahmay]

That's a great tip Claire, thanks very much. I will get some fenugreek and give that a go.

[teilvnav]

You can certainly pump to increase your supply, although I can't pump so it never worked that way for me. Instead I used my LO like a pump. I feed from both sides when nursing, so when I want to increase for whatever reason I put my LO back on the first BB again after doing both sides. Sometimes I also offer the BB again an hour later. There are suppliments you can take like fenugreek tablets and blessed thistle, and a tea called "Mother's Milk" that I liked. I never took blessed thistle but fenugreek worked; you take three tablets three times a day until you smell like maple syrup. You shouldn't use that if you have worries about blood pressure, asthma, or diabetis, though. I eat oatmeal and drink Ovaltine (with malt) almost every day because a) they are good for you, and b) they help make good milk. Lots of rest will help, and plenty of water is vital. There are a few medications that you can get from your dr that will help if the other ways don't make a difference. You can also use breast compressions while nursing and pumping to make sure that you are getting out every drop; that will help cue your body to start producing more.

Early teething does suck, so hopefully that won't be a bother! My DS had his first teeth by 4.5 months and my DD is about to pop her first as well. Arg.

Posted as Claire did!

[sarahmay]

I have tried putting my LO back on more often, but it seems he just gets annoyed and won't/can't take anything, perhaps because there isn't anything there for him. I used to really have so much milk so I wonder if he is actually a little bit lazy and doesn't like working for it a bit so gets frustrated.
I've ordered some nursing tea now online so will start taking that when it arrives and get some fenugreek when i'm in town tomorrow.
thanks

[Fiver]

The 4m growth spurt is SUCH a big one!  I remember saying the exact same thing to my friend about there not seeming to be any milk there and her advice was "just keep on feeding - it may not seem that there's anything there, but there is". 

[sarahmay]

thanks everyone for the support. it's reassuring to hear others have been in the same boat. hopefully things will return to normal soon.

[Katet]

Katet - funny, it's my mum who has told me i should give my LO some baby rice! I've always listened to my mum and thought she knows best but maybe I should stick with my instincts in this case. 

I think that is a very generational thing, there wasn't a lot of support for BF in the 70's/80's & it was the era of early solids etc. I think Mum's can have lots of good advice, but also lots is outdated too.