Author Topic: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2  (Read 83932 times)

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Offline <Catherine>

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18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« on: June 15, 2012, 09:56:33 am »
Continued from http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=176250.msg1990387#msg1990387

If I could also remind everyone to please avoid m-a-r-king :)
Catherine x








Offline lily528

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 11:12:01 am »
I'm not medicating. I am really not sure what is causing it :/ we do have probiotics. I should try that. Good idea. I was going to do the yogurt with probiotics but so much sugar in those. 
<3 Melissa






Offline *Kara*

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 21:33:38 pm »
Loads of sugar and very few good quality probiotics :)  BioGaia is the best proB I could find for wee ones!



Offline trimbler

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 20:27:07 pm »
M has been prone to constipation right from the start of weaning! I hadn't heard about yoghurt being a problem, I tend to find that if he's eaten a lot of yoghurt (when he won't eat much else!), his BMs get more like those early bf BMs! But that aside, our usual trick is prunes (works for me too ;) ), either neat, pureed with pear or pureed and mixed with his muesli and yoghurt. Apricots work well too, as do blueberries (although they do have a slightly disconcerting effect on the colour of his BMs!), other than that lots of liquids. And an outright ban on banana, which always bungs him up! Hope she's more comfortable soon...

Sounds like you've all been busy coming up with good plans for your LOs! Mama_C - I've no idea, how long's he sleeping at night nowadays? IMO if he's waking up well rested in the morning then you're probably ok as you are, even if BT's a little later than you'd like?

Well, talking of waking up well rested... We've had a couple of 1.5h nap days now and after the first he slept 8:10pm - 7:20am (had to wake), the first night > 10.5h in absolutely ages :) And more importantly, he woke a new boy - well ok, not a new boy, but I'd forgotten just how sunny he could be, I fell in love all over again :) So happy, singing and giggling away... well ok not for the whole morning, he's still 20mo and we have at least our fair share of power struggles, but I still could hardly believe the difference! Then I realised, for the last few months, he's had too short a night and been edgy all morning, then catching up on sleep during his nap and had too much energy to work out in the afternoon, ending up with a late BT (ie when he actually got to sleep) and another short night... The last couple of days he's been much happier in the morning but seemed to have less energy in the afternoon, so that he was actually tired at BT. We're certainly not there yet, and he did still take ages to get to sleep last night so we did have to wake him this morning, but he didn't EW as usual so still had more night-time sleep overall. And I'm 95% certain that was a teething issue rather than routine, so we'll stick it out a bit longer and see what happens... I'd also been waiting for a pre-8pm BT in order to move his WU to 7am, as I'm pretty sure that will encourage the earlier BTs and wouldn't result in a longer morning A than he did when he was EW-ing. So - tonight we finally had 7:50pm asleep :) :) Yes I know this would still be late for some of you but I've been waiting for this for sooooooo long!  Now I'm wondering if I really have the courage to wake him at 7am (if he's still asleep), but if he STTNs then he'll have had 11h+ so should be really well rested...



Offline *Kara*

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 20:43:01 pm »
And an outright ban on banana, which always bungs him up!

Interesting tidbit:  over ripe bananas (like those reserved for baking) will relieve constipation ;)  The sugar changes in them as they ripen and it has a laxative effect when very ripe :)



Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 20:48:03 pm »
Yup blueberries = green poop - yuck!

Then I realised, for the last few months, he's had too short a night and been edgy all morning, then catching up on sleep during his nap and had too much energy to work out in the afternoon, ending up with a late BT (ie when he actually got to sleep) and another short night...
^^^this is EXACTLY what happened for us & why we started nap capping too.  It sounds like the shorter nap is helping.

I used to wake O at 7.15am after an 8pm BT, & he did just fine with that.  So long as he's getting a consistent 11hrs I think your DS will also be fine.  What time is he taking the nap???  

We are struggling here.  I had capped the nap to 1.5hrs but he still wasn't falling asleep for ages.  So I've now capped at 1h 15.  Night 1 was 12hrs, last night 11h 10 & tonight - we'll see.  He STILL took forever to settle but I am a little worried he's getting OT now so I'm hoping he sleeps in til a decent time tomorrow.  His day today went:

Up: 6.50am
Nap: 1.20-2.35 (put down 1pm but took ages to settle)
Bed: 7.50pm     (put down 7.20pm but took ages to settle.  Was rubbing eyes lots before BT so KNOW he was tired.)

I've a niggling feeling he may need the nap cutting even shorter to 1hr in order to lengthen his night enough for him to cope well.  But I may be way off - perhaps he still needs his long nap.  He certainly seems to be struggling with the shorter nap - he's been tired at 9am the last 2 days (even after a 12hr night) so I'm not sure its going to work.  If I have to reinstate the longer nap I guess I'll just have to live with the shorter nights til he's ready for the nap to go.

Offline *Kara*

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 20:54:19 pm »
Claire - I suspect you are right that he is in that weird phase of still needing a longer nap at the expense of his night sleep... a nap under 1 hr 30 just doesn't restore them, KWIM?



Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 21:21:26 pm »
Yeah it just sucks - if he has long nap/short night he is tired & grumpy b/c his night was short.  If he has short nap/longer night he is tired & grumpy b/c his nap is too short.  Can't win either way - argh!!!!  I think he's slightly more grumpy on the shorter nap.  I'm gonna give it a bit longer before making a judgement call though.

Offline trimbler

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 21:48:20 pm »
Oh yes, I'd forgotten that about bananas, Kara - I guess my DS is a bit like me and he'll only eat them if they're 'just right', so we can't use the over-ripe banana trick with him!

Claire - I'd probably agree, I definitely don't want to cut that nap less than 1.5h until I'm certain he won't sleep longer than 10.5-11h at night otherwise, but I know we're a long way off that now! Less than 1.5h would be less than 2 complete sleep cycles, wouldn't it? Is there any room for you to play around with WU/BT to avoid the UT - OT BT situation, which we often get when he goes down UT and ends up OT before he finally drops off? (((hugs))) it does seem never-ending, doesn't it?!

Btw I'm starting to wonder whether this is the best place to be discussing all this now - what started out as 18mo regression seems to be morphing into nap-capping as the start of 1-0 for many of us and I was wondering whether those who are really going through the 18mo stuff ought to have more 'air-space' on here? I have glanced through the 'dropping the nap' thread but that's much further on than where we are now so doesn't seem appropriate. But I do really value being able to chat with you all when I can (and will of course stick around on this thread until it's run its course), so... Kara (or any other mods), do you reckon we just keep discussing our nap-capping etc here or create another thread for that?



Offline Mama_Mia

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 03:15:03 am »
Mama_C - I've no idea, how long's he sleeping at night nowadays? IMO if he's waking up well rested in the morning then you're probably ok as you are, even if BT's a little later than you'd like?
I dont know how long he is sleeping really. He falls asleep at 8pm but the last couple days he was already awake at 7am when I went in to get him. No idea what time he is waking because he just lays quietly or talks softly to himself until I get him up. He always seems well rested, no eye rubbing or grumpiness. Not even at nap time. I am really thinking I need to cut his nap down. He has 5 hr A before bed but then still plays around for at least 30 min before going to sleep.The hard part about cutting his nap down is that I dont know exactly when he falls asleep at naptime.

Offline stardust599

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 11:26:34 am »
Trimbler yes i am struggling to fit in here as LO is nowhere near ready for nap capping. It was a combinstion of OT and regression for us.

We seem to have found a slight balance!  On a good day (4-5times a week) we are getting

6.15am WU
11.15am - nap for 1.30-2.15hrs
6.30 BT (15mins to fall asleep)

It is super super delicate though. Like this morning I didnt PD til nearer 11.30 as we had a nappy accident so LO was slightly OT so took 45mins to settle which pushes us later :-(

Similar happened during the week, tried to push the morning A, so LO was OT and took longer to settle so OT and haf to cap nap meaning meal refusal and BT chatting then 4.45am EW!

The day has to be perfect
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Baby boy born 2nd July 2012 - my very spirited little monkey with MSPI, GERD & dysphagia.  Here to help ask me anything :-)

Offline lily528

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 15:03:21 pm »
ugh...what do i know?!  my little one is all over the place...our biggest problem right now is potty time..she always has to go RIGHT at nap/bed time...by the time she goes (she plays A LOT) it's so past her reg pd time that she doesn't want to go down at all...last two days have been a mess...I try to start potty time early but she says no then waits til I put her in the crib to say she has to go...the one time i thought she was playing me she ended up not napping cause she went in her diaper...i can't win..

no nap yesterday...tried for early bed at 7...FINALLY got her to sleep by 7:45 (I had to stay in there and sing to her) she always self settles she was just a mess it was the only way to get her to drift off.  by that point she was up for 12 hrs STRAIGHT! 

she woke around 7:30 today so almost 12 hr night and has been whiny and yawning most of today...no idea what time to do nap at this point...
<3 Melissa






Offline *Kara*

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 19:58:15 pm »
I would put her down a touch earlier than usual Melissa - but not more than about 30 mins or she will do a short night because of a longer nap ;)



Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 20:21:47 pm »
Btw I'm starting to wonder whether this is the best place to be discussing all this now - what started out as 18mo regression seems to be morphing into nap-capping as the start of 1-0 for many of us
This had crossed my mind too.  But where else to discuss it?!

I definitely don't want to cut that nap less than 1.5h until I'm certain he won't sleep longer than 10.5-11h at night otherwise, but I know we're a long way off that now! Less than 1.5h would be less than 2 complete sleep cycles, wouldn't it? Is there any room for you to play around with WU/BT to avoid the UT - OT BT situation, which we often get when he goes down UT and ends up OT before he finally drops off?

This is exactly why I cut the nap to 1h 15 - because his nights were less than 11hrs.  Since cutting the nap shorter to 1h 15 his nights initially extended but are now getting shorter again (last night 10h 50  :-\)

So, when he was doing the 1h 45 nap from 1.15-3pm he wasn't falling asleep til 8.15-8.30pm & I was waking him at 7.15am (10h 45-11hr night) so 12h 30-45 total sleep in 24hrs.

But now, with a 1h 15 nap from 1.15-2.30 he is falling asleep at 7.45 & waking naturally between 6.30-6.45 (10h 45-11hrs night) so 12 - 12h 15 total sleep in 24hrs.

It seems he is getting less sleep with the shorter nap so I think I may have to reinstate his old routine & start all over again.  I'm pained to do this though b/c I know he was UT  ::)

We tried a slightly earlier nap yest a) incase he was OT by naptime and b) to see if he would settle more quickly at bedtime with a longer A to BT & he STILL took until 7.45pm to settle, and was up at 6.30am this morning.  At nursery today they didn't put him down til 1.25pm (7hr A  :o) & he slept 1h 5mins, woke himself.  At teatime he was shouting & running around like a crazy child, headbutting & headshaking - very definitely OT.  Tried for EBT 7pm but still not asleep til just after 7.30pm.

Offline stardust599

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 07:10:07 am »
Ladies I just wanted to update for anyone who has been following us -

We are sorted! We were in an OT/UT loop and also working against LOs natural sleep pattern.

So we now do -

6.15 WU
5 hrs A ish
11.15 - 12.45 -1.5 hrs uncapped nap
6.15 BT

She is well rested on this but starts to get more tired around the third day and will pull a big 2.5hr nap then a later BT, shorter night and we start again. She gets hyper and happy when the sleeping bag comes out but chats happily and is snoring away within 10-15mins. I have gone for the earlier nap as LO is too sensitive to cope with nap capping so I let her go down less tired knowing I wont havr to wake her. I wouldideally like a slightly later WU and nap but nothing works, she just gets OT if I oush.the nap even 15mins! Then we get BT chattering for 20-45mins and EW! So its a delicate balance and.i have to be home each morning for nap as even 1 day off causes EW. Xx
Mummy to a beautiful girl born Nov 2010 - touchy baby now a touchy/spirited Toddler!

Baby boy born 2nd July 2012 - my very spirited little monkey with MSPI, GERD & dysphagia.  Here to help ask me anything :-)