Author Topic: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!  (Read 1190 times)

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Offline FourGirlsNM

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Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« on: July 13, 2012, 14:33:54 pm »
Hi! Well, last night was my third night and today is starting my 4th day trying to implement EASY and decrease night wakenings/feedings. My DD is 18 weeks old but was born 5 weeks early (2 weeks in the NICU). I have mostly been following her lead with BF on demand (she is EBF and actually has refused bottles for the past 6 weeks), napping when tired, some co-sleeping in early morning, etc. The past few weeks I have worked hard on implementing nap times and bed time and trying to get her to sleep more in her bassinet but she still was falling asleep on the breast or being rocked to sleep 90% of the time during day and night. About 2 weeks ago she started waking every 1-2 hrs wanting to BF for a minute to fall back to sleep (basically sucking to sleep with almost every sleep cycle, I think at night). Obviously I am EXHAUSTED and found the BW book. Read almost the entire book in 24 hrs and started to implement 4 days ago.
I have tried to do a 3.5hr EASY, my goal being the following:
E:7am
A:1.75-2 hrs
S: 8:45-10:15
E: 10:30
A:1.5 hrs
S: 12-2
E: 2:00
A: 1.5hrs
S: 3:30-4:30
E: 5:00
A: 2 hrs (including bathe)
S: 7pm Feed and Sleep

DF: 10:30

Here is what actually happened yesterday:
E: 7:15
S: 9:05-9:35 (tried and tried with SHH/Pat and could not get her back to sleep, up at 10am)
E: 10:30
S: 11:20-11:55 (woke, couldn't get to go back down (30 mins Sh/Pat), hungry so fed)
    12:30-1:10
E: 1:10 (to try and get back on schedule) Super tired
S: 1:30-2
A: 45 minutes and exhausted
S: 2:45-4 (one brief awakening but put self back to sleep YEA!)
E: 4
S: Catnap in swing 5:30-6
A: Play, bath
ES: brief feed and 2 sessions of Sh/Pat to get to sleep at 7:30

Night wakenings: 10:25- NF
                        12:20- NF (seemed hungry)
                          2:20- Sh/Pat for 30+ minutes back to sleep, refused to feed
                          4:15- NF
                          6:00- woke crying but then just awake, let her play in bassinet with some assistance for play until 7am when I got her up, changed and feed for first feed today.

So the schedule is completely wrecked due to her short nap issues, now I know this is not unusual, but I am at a loss as to how to handle it when then she gets so exhausted and I have to nap her off schedule. She wakes up after her half our naps crying and most of the time I just can not get her to go back unless I continuously Ssh/Pat for the entire time. Also the night time wakenings are absolutely killing me. I have not slept more than 2 hours straight in weeks and it is taking its toll. My partner works a lot and also has a back injury, she can not do sustained Shh/Pat and Alayna doesn't take bottle so she can't do any feeds (I am working on bottle but this is a secondary issue at this point). I also have a 4 year old who has activities to work around.

Specific quesstions:
Should I be aiming for a 3.5hr EASY or do a 3 hr for a few weeks, especially since she is developmentally only 13 weeks old?
Am I handling the night wakenings right? feeding when seems truly hungry or it has been over 3 hours and not on other instances? Will she stop wakening during those other times soon? Should I try to DF her for the 2 projected night feeds to see if that keeps her asleep longer? She has not slept more than a 4 hour stretch (first hours of sleep) in weeks, although she did sleep 5-6 hour stretches somewhat regularly before then. Prior to trying this system she rarely went more than 3 hours between feedings and only eats for like 5-7 minutes at a time, I think partially efficient, partially a snacker.

I have so many more concerns/questions but I want to get this posted now and have to take my older daughter to a class. I have been scouring the boards for advice, info as well but wanted to post my own situation to see if anyone had any specific advice or similar experiences that resolved well! I am totally a believer in this system but so far things are getting worse, not better, Thank you so much!!!!!!!!

Offline michaeljacknnugg

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 16:00:12 pm »
Hey there,

I'm no expert as DS is 4 now, but I do remember those short naps. I think I ended up trying to follow sleep cues, even if it meant more naps per day. And really trying to time feeds so we didn't end up feeding to sleep.

I hope things improve for you, but in the meantime is there any help you can get so that you can catch up on sleep?
My 'little man' - kind-hearted Spirited whirlwind, 2008
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Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2012, 20:41:00 pm »
Hugs, as pp says, when they short nap it's hard follow a true EASY, more naps and shorter Atimes will help with OT.

One things noticed is your LO was 5 wks early...so adjusted age closer to 13-14 weeks? If so your EaSy needs to be more appropriate for that age so she may be OT by the time she is PD for the first nap ;) try pulling back that first A closer to 1.5 hrs and see if it helps that nap :) if you think she is hungry at 3 hrs I would stick that feeding for now too.

WRT NF definitely feed if you believe she is hungry, but if before 3hrsthen shh/pat is the right way to go :) if she can do 3 hrs during the day,she can do it at night. I'll see if I can get a Bf mod to have a look too...we didn't do a DF with Z.

Have a read through this too...it may help :)
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0

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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline ~Lori~

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2012, 21:29:58 pm »
I want to encourage you...these short naps are BRUTAL, but in my experience with having 2 other kids who did short naps ALL THE TIME and my current 14 week old is doing it too.  But it is developmental.  I was spending every day analyzing A time...increase?  decrease?  With no change.  But then around 4-5 months they stopped happening again.

It is frustrating to have these short naps and try to keep some semblance of EASY going on.  Sometimes our day looks crazy because of it but we try to make it work. 

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DD--Touchy, then Textbook, 2006
DS1--Spirited, 2009
DS2--Textbook, 2012
DD2--Angel, 2014

Offline Erin M

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 21:48:51 pm »
Hi there!  A few thoughts:
First off, I would stick with a 3 hour EASY for now, especially since her adjusted age isn't 4 months yet (and TBH, many breastfed babes are closer to 6 months old before they can do 4 hours between feeds). 

Short naps are tough, my ds was a fairly consistent short napper for months and months.  Throw another LO into the mix and it's enough to make anyone feel as if they're at the end of their ropes!  What helped me the most at this stage was to come up with a set length that I would try to extend the nap if he woke crying (like 10 minutes) and if it didn't work, I would just get him up and take him and the girls out, or play, or go outside, or do something just to get us moving along with our day in positive direction.  Often, it means you'll have a short A time before the next nap, but that's ok too. 

The df can be a big help -- it worked like a charm for 2 out of my 3 and not at all for the other one.  I always think it's worth giving a shot though as it really can make a difference.  Here's some info on the df if you need it: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65750.0 .  Eating for 5-7 minutes at a time is totally ok at her age as well, many babies can get a full feeding in that amount of time (or less)! 

Hope that helps!

Offline amayzie

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2012, 21:49:54 pm »
Posted at the same time as erin...

IF you want you could try a DF- but not for both feeds. You do a dream feed at about 10-11.00 or so (no later than 11pm as it wil disrupt sleep) in order to bring the first night feed forward to before you go to bed. I did it at 11pm as i'm a night owl. It doesn't work for everyone- but if it works for you it means that you'll do one feed and then only have to wake up once in the night for a feed. You can do it with the breast- i never did it with a bottle as my guy was EBF and i couldn't be bothered organising a bottle at that time of night!! (lazy mummy) If you try it with your boob it might take a couple of goes over a couple of nights, but your LO should get it. Once they do they then will root around as soon as you take them out of the bed!! Other people have this feed as a bottle feed as it gives DH a chance to do it and you can go to bed early. Either way- whatever suits you!
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Offline FourGirlsNM

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 22:25:39 pm »
Thank you all so much for responding, it is so helpful to hear of others with the short nap thing and that it may resolve, my older daughter is 4.5 and I kind of remember she was a short napper for a while but it all seems so long ago! LOL!
Today, it is now 4:15p and she has taken 3 30 min naps and one hour nap (the hour one I lied down with her and let her nurse to sleep). She REALLY wants to suck to sleep and just can not find satisfaction from her fingers or sucking on her lovey although she tries! Heavy patting is the only thing that usually helps stop the rooting (but she seems to need it at every brief awakening), I also was trying the gentle removal but then just stopped completely feeding before sleep (except maybe once a day) in an attempt to help the night time awakenings! She has never taken a paci and I guess now I do not even want to introduce it even though I do try every now and again.

I am planning on letting her snooze in her swing from like 4:45-5:30 as that seems to be successful for her in the evenings and then put her down to bed by 7.

She has been eating every 2-3 hours today, and really eats (at least her short feeds) each time, so I guess that is where she is right now, although I really am trying to push her to every 3 hours most of the time and will have that me my EASY goal for now. Glad to hear that others think it sounds developmentally ok considering her adjusted age and being EBF. I saw on another post the idea of changing around the EAS a bit to cover shorter feed times, like EAES and stuff like that, I am trying though not to nurse to bed though more than one time a day (if that) so have her up at least 10 minutes after second feed if that happens.

Tonight I will try a DF at 10 (she has woken up by 1030 the past two nights for feeds so will catch her before) and then hold her off atleast 3-4hrs the rest of the night. DP has offered to try sleeping in her room tonight and I will just go in for BF so that I can get a little more sleep as I am really struggling with the sleep deprivation. Tomorrow and Sunday I will try to nap with her a couple times as well since DP will be home to be with our oldest.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2012, 00:13:39 am »
Have you tried a paci, yes it's one potential prop wth another, but if she has a strong urge to suck it may help in that you don't need to feed to sleep and potentially over feed etc. :-\
- sorry just read further and saw you had tried the paci ;)
Any discomfort...reflux etc to consider?

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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline FourGirlsNM

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2012, 17:19:01 pm »
Right, no go on paci, although I do still try and have one in her bassinet. I am going to post in the sleep issues section too cause last night she was again up every 1-1.5 hr wanting to suck back to sleep! I am DYING! I am starting to wonder if she could have a medical condition or something that does not allow her to continue through the sleep cycle, although 6 weeks or so ago she was sleeping 4-6 hour stretches on occasion the first part of the nights.

Last night this was what happened:
6:30pm feed, asleep by 7:15 after sh/pat
8:45pm up- NF
10:30pm up- sh/pat back to sleep
11:45pm up-NF
12:45ish up- Sh/pat
1:45ish up- Sh/pat
3:30am NF
4:30am up Sh/pat did not go back to sleep for longer than 10 minutes at a time until 5:30ish am
7am- up for day, first feed

This is essentially how she has been for about 2 weeks now, before starting EASY I had her in my bed for the second portion of the night and would just pop my boob in her mouth each time she woke up and started to root, I know she has a strong suck to sleep association but this is RIDICULOUS! She has not slept more than 2 hrs straight (neither have I) in about 2 weeks!!!! I looked in BW book and it says at 4 months it could take 3-7 days to implement EASY, last night was night 4, is she just super stubborn and in the next 3 days it is going to click?? Otherwise I am just being more relaxed with her naps, allowing one hour naps during the day if she wakes up relatively happy, if crying making an attempt to put her back to sleep for another cycle and sticking with the 3hr feed schedule as best I can with 1.5 hr A. This I have been consistent with so hoping that it is going to help. I am essentially on my own here and don't know how many more nights I can go with this. This morning I did go to sleep after 7am feed for 2.5hours while DP took over and plan to do the same tomorrow morning or even other times during the day if I can, but it isn't enough!

Any other ideas about the night wakenings???? If I don't immediately start to sh/pat when she starts rooting after the hour of sleep, she will escalate into a full cry and then it takes longer to get her back to sleep. Last night it did seem to take less minutes for most wake up of sh/pat to get her back to sleep for the next hour but not once we hit 4:30am or so.

Like I said I am going to post this in the sleep section as well. TIA!!!!

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2012, 20:06:07 pm »
Hun, I'll move you over so you don't have to repost. I think really you're the process of weaning a prop....the breast. It may takes oe time :-*

We never do the feeding to sleep so my knowledge is limited on this. I'll move your post and ask foursome more eyes - hugs
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Help, I am new and about to Lose It!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2012, 20:10:38 pm »
***Sara***
https://www.facebook.com/tomiandroo


DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.