10 week old still waking every 3 hours at night to eat

[carolina_bug]

My DS is 10 weeks and is still waking every 2.5-3 hours to eat.  I wasn't sure if I should post this on the BF board or the nightwaking board.

He is a 45 min cat napper too, so his daytime sleep isn't great either.  I have him on a 3 hour eating schedule and just try to structure his days around that as I never know when his naps are going to go 45 min or longer.  He also doesn't want to go down for the night until around 9 or 10 every night, so his day starts around 9 am.

His A time is between 1 hour and 1.15.  I follow his sleep cues which are yawning and getting irritable.  He usually goes down without much of a fuss, so getting him to sleep is not the issue.  He is swaddled.

He wakes up almost like clockwork every 3 hours and when I pick him up, or my DH picks him up, he is rooting and wanting to eat & won't go back to sleep until he doesn't.  He usually only eats about half of what he does during the day though before he falls asleep & I put him back down. 

Are there strategies to help extend his time before feeds?

[annar840]

Have you tried using a pacifier? Sometimes babies wake up out of habit and not out of hunger? Try using a pacifier and see if it works or if you can stretch the time be feeds st night.

[carolina_bug]

Yep, tried a pacifier with no luck.  He's a BF baby and has a hard time getting the sucking motion down as it's different from how he sucks when BF.  He does like to suck his hands during the day when he's out of the swaddle, so I tried unswaddling him, which was a disaster.

I reread the part in BW about night waking to eat and I made sure not to let him oversleep on his naps and feed him every 3 hours.  He's taking in more food, but when I pumped to see how much I was getting, I only pumped 4 oz in 15 min.  He usually eats for 20-30 min when BF.  Is that enough for a 10 week old?  I would say he's between 11-12 lbs at this point.

When he wakes, he only eats for 7-10 min, but he latches on hard and gulps like he's starving every time.  I try to wake him to eat more, but it rarely works and the few times that it has, it doesn't make a difference & he's up within the 3 hour mark anyway.

[*Ali*]

Please don't worry, pumping is not a reliable indication of how much your LO is getting. Your baby is much more efficient than any pump.
2-3 NFS at this age is not uncommon. Does he go to sleep independently yet or are you staying to help him?

[carolina_bug]

For his naps, he pretty much goes to sleep on his own.  I act as soon as I see his sleep cues, and that's around 1.15 to 1.5 hrs after he wakes.  For night time, however, it's his "witching" time, so it takes me about 10 min to get him settled enough to put him down in his crib.

He's on a 3 hour EASY plan starting at 7 am.

[~inbalance~]

All of my BF babies ate every 3hrs around the clock for the first few months more or less, and my second baby was still waking every 3 hours to eat for ages.  Right now my 9wk old DD is waking to eat every 3hrs.  She was doing 1 long stretch of 4-4.5hrs but has been waking more often the last few days which I'm sure is a growth spurt.  But I agree with Ali that it's still quite within the realm of normal for BF babies at this age to be waking every 3hrs to eat, in fact I think it's more normal that they do wake that much than don't!

[*Ali*]

That sounds good. 1.5hrs is top end for A time at this age so just watch he isn't getting OT.

[carolina_bug]

That's good to know then.  The problem now is that his nights are getting worse since I put him on the EASY schedule.

He was doing the 45 min nap thing for weeks, and just started going 1.5 hr stretches.  In fact, I have to wake him after the 1.5 hr mark.  Now that he's getting better sleep during the day, he is more content.  I started offering the other breast to see if he needed more food, and he started eating more as well. (Although he had never complained before, but I thought that maybe the frequent wake-ups were b/c he wasn't getting enough to eat during the day.)  That hasn't been the case for the past few nights. 

He gets the DF around 10:30-11-00 and is awake at 1:00 like clockwork rooting like he hasn't eaten in days.  Then I feed him, and put him down and he's awake again around 2-2:30.  Then on/off throughout the rest of the night until 6. 

I pump for 30 min (for the DF) as that's usually how long he BF, and I only get 4 oz.  I know that BF is more effective, but that still seems like a low amount for a 10 week old that weighs between 11-12 lbs.  He's content after he eats, and he's gaining weight, but he's definitely on the leaner side, as was my DD.

[~inbalance~]

Our nights are very similar these days as well, especially the on/off after 2:30am part which is driving me batty.  Hoping they settle down soon.

[Erin M]

Are you making sure he's getting a good burp at that 1 AM feed?  My LOs would do that from discomfort if they weren't burped sufficiently before I put them back down.

[carolina_bug]

I can never get him to burp during his night feedings.  I try and try and it just wakes him up and makes him angry.  If I try and don't get it, I put him down, and when he wakes again, I pick him up and try it again but rarely get a burp.

His pattern has changed though and for the past two nights, he has been waking every 30-45 min after his 1 am feed.  I should've been happy about the every 3 hours!

[Erin M]

How are your burping him?  I found I didn't have to go as much for the vigorous back claps at night, but I would just rub and rub their backs, in a circular motion (like opposite their tummies, trying to rub the burps up) which seemed to do the trick.  The every 45 minutes is trouble settling between sleep cycles -- how is he falling asleep at the 1 AM feeding?  On the breast or another way?  Does he have a paci?

[Fiver]

I used to sit DS sideways on my knee and rock him backwards and forwards to get a good burp up in the night.  It's often possible to do that without them waking.

[carolina_bug]

He does fall asleep at the breast sometimes, but not always.  He usually settles right to sleep, it's keeping him asleep that is the problem.  I sometimes use a paci, but he doesn't always take it.  He has a hard time getting the sucking motion down as he tries to suck it like the breast.

If it's gas, why would it happen at the same time every night??  He sleeps like a champ from 7pm-1am (with a DF at 10), then is up for a feed at 1:00, goes back down at about 1:15, then is up by 2, and it's every 30-45 min until he starts his day at 7:00.  He does seem like he's in pain, but it happens at the same time, no matter what I eat.  I'm on an elimination diet, so the only veggies I eat are zucchini, lettuce, and red pepper, no dairy or soy at all, I've had corn a few times.  I eat a bowl of bran cereal every morning to help me stay regular (TMI.. sorry) but I don't see how that would affect him at night.

I vary my diet especially at dinnertime to see if anything made a difference, but it doesn't.  I just don't know where all of this gas is coming from so suddenly.  He wasn't waking this much when I wasn't on the elimination diet.

[carolina_bug]

Here is his EASY:

Awake at 7

E   7-7:20
A   7:20-8:30 (wind down starts at around 8:20 and he goes right to sleep)
S   8:30-10:00 (I have to wake him up)

E   10-10:20
A   10:20-11:30  (wind down starts at around 8:20 and he goes right to sleep)
S   11:30-1:00  (I have to wake him)

E   1:00-1:20
A   1:20-2:30  (wind down starts at around 8:20 and he goes right to sleep)
S   2:30-4:00  (I have to wake him)

E   4:00-4:20
A   4:20-5:30
S   5:30-6:15

A time from 6:16- 7:00 (bath and wind down for the night)

E at 7 and then is asleep by 7:30

DF at 10:00

This is textbook everyday.  He is like clockwork. 

He sleeps until 1:00 and then is awake every 30-45 min for the rest of the night.  Last night I even tried putting him in his swing to get some sleep and it didn't work.    I try shhh/pat but it puts him back asleep and then he's up again 30-45 min later.  He stops if I pick him up, or he'll sleep on me. I'm going mad.

I was block feeding before, as I could tell he wasn't getting enough hindmilk.  When I started his EASY, I started offering the other breast and he ate twice as much, but then he started having reflux symptoms again.  (He started having symptoms of silent reflux around 3 weeks, but we tried some natural methods, and he was doing so much better by 7 weeks, now it seems to be coming back some at night since he started taking in more milk during the day.) He still only eats from the one breast at night before he falls asleep and is out for the 45 min, then up on and off for the rest of the night until 7.

[Fiver]

Reflux can sometimes manifest more at night time, so it may be that there's some discomfort from that later in the night.

[*Ali*]

It could be reflux pain maybe. He might be becoming aware of the discomfort as he comes into lighter sleep at the end of each sleep cycle and therefore is never getting back into a deep sleep. At the beginning of the night his drive to sleep will be stronger so he may get into a deep sleep and be ok for several hours but then once he has that 1am waking and feed it starts bothering him.
If the DF from the breast or a bottle? Are you engorged at the 1am feeding? Do you have an overactive letdown that could be causing himto gulp lots of air?

[carolina_bug]

DF is from a bottle.  I'm not engorged, and i do have a strong letdown, which I let into a cloth, then relatch him so he doesn't gag.

His reflux was getting better.  Why is it all of the sudden getting worse?  If that's the case, I think I may lose my mind.  The only thing getting me through these past couple of months was thinking that with each day, we were close to the end of this misery. 

I'm exhausted, miserable and depressed all of the time, and I still have a 2 year old that needs me to.  I don't feel that I'm being a great mom to either of them right now.

He's not on meds because he was doing great until a week ago.  He's fine when he's awake, just the sleeping is an issue, and his bed is elevated at a 30 degree angle.

[~inbalance~]

Just adding some hugs.  I was in the same position after DS2 was born and it was exhausting.  Hope you get it figured out soon.  We just had a terrible week but things are improving agan.  If there is one thing I learned is never to count on things to stay the same!  They may be good, but then they can go bad.  But they always become good again, at some point. 

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs Hun,
Honestly, the nature of reflux is that it can come in peaks and troughs. A range of changes as LO grows can cause flaure ups etc such as a GS, teething, changes in milk/solids intake, trying to crawl and weight gain - which can mean a med review is required as some are very weight sensitive (ie need to be increased with every 500gms-1kg)

For us, but not all refluxers, it peaked at 4 months.untill then we had 6 out of 7 days rubbish. The good days DO start to outweigh the bad, but it takes time.....months

I really think for him, and YOU too that you should see your ped/dr to discuss meds for him, and also to discuss how you are feeling. Reflux is hard, so hard, and can make you feel very anxious, lonely and sad. I really struggled, but felt a lot better once I was feeling more stable too (thanks to my smart dr who pressed me to take edinborough test) worst case you can stop after 2 weeks med trial if you don't feel comfortable, or that the meds are working.

I really think that you will see some improvement on the sleep with this....it looks like discomfort as PP have said, and given you have tried so much already to ease that, I think you may need meds to see progress there

[TeresaB]

hi new to this forum site and read ur posts as this describes me and my son (child number 2- also have 2.5 yo) exactly except we are @ wk 12 and starting to feeling pretty low and desperate. just wondering what worked for u in the end if u can remember? must seem like long time ago now!

[ZacsMumme]

Hi Theresa, hopefully Carolina_bug will pop back but feel free to start a new thread if you like in CRC or one of the sleep or feeding boards x

[carolina_bug]

Hi TeresaB.  I don't know if you're still checking your posts.  I dropped off for a while as life has been crazy, but I'm here to say that it is better.

What ended up working was the medication, and he eventually just grew out of it.  It just stopped.  My husband wanted to try the "natural" way, but I will be honest and say that medication saved my sanity.  It does take a little while for it to build up and start working, and they may have to try a couple of different ones, but it worked for my DS.

Hugs and hopes that it works for yours too.

[francescasb]

My 9wo has just started waking up more regularly overnight (usually every hour from about 3am) as well. I was considering giving him water from a bottle in between his feeds, because the last 4 nights I've ended up nursing him at 3/4/5/6/7am, so that he goes back to sleep quickly and doesn't wake up everyone else in the house!

Would that work, or is it more likely to be a recurrence of his silent reflux at this age? After I feed him, I try and get a burp, but usually nothing comes out, then I put him back to bed and he grunts and wriggles around for a few mins before he goes back to sleep, and then he's awake again an hour later. The hourly feeds have been small ones, so I'm pretty sure he's not extra hungry, which is why I wondered whether he was waking out of habit (and so the water might work)...?

Perhaps I've got it the wrong way round. If it is the reflux, and the antacid the Dr gave us last time didn't seem to make any difference one way or another, should I ask for something else? What were your LOs taking?

Thanks

[*Ali*]

I wouldn't fill him up with water no. At this age all he needs is nutritious breast milk. BF LOs don't need any water until they start solids around 6mo and even then it is just sips to get used to drinking from a cup.

Besides, you don't want to get him in the habit of feeding/sucking to get back to sleep even if it is only water. I would settle him with shh/pat if you are happy it is just habit and he isn't hungry and he finished his feed less than an hour ago.

If it is reflux it could be that he is feeding to stop the burning sensation that is disturbing his sleep. What medication did the dr give you? Infant Gaviscon is a popular first point of call but there are many other meds to try if that doesn't help. Check out this FAQ. Approach to treating and investigating Reflux

Have you tried any non-medical interventions like propping the head of the mattress? There are some more ideas here. tips for calming my refluxing LO

[francescasb]

Yes, we already have the end of the moses basket propped up. It's usually about an hour between feeds, or slightly more, but he isn't feeding very long, so I guess it's more comfort than hunger. I was given Ranitidine. I've put a call into the pediatrician this afternoon to ask about dosage now that he's bigger, and i'll start giving that to him again. I'll also check out the links you added - thanks...

[*Ali*]

Also check hhow old the ranitidine is too since it only lasts a few weeks once the bottle is open so you may need a new one.

[ZacsMumme]

Ranitidine has a 1 mth shelf life from opening. omaprazole suspension is 10-14 days

[francescasb]

oh I didn't know that - thanks... I've been giving him the same bottle he was prescribed when he was about a month old.

The new routine overnight seems to be one long stretch in the evening (4-5 hours), then up every 2 hours either once or twice, and then much more regularly from then on. I'm trying to space the feeds out to at least every 2.5hrs, and I've had a couple of successful attempts to resettle him with the dummy/paci, but it often doesn't work, and then if he makes too much fuss he wakes up his sister in the other room (which is what happened at 5.45 this morning, so then we were all up!!).

It's so frustrating, especially as he often doesn't seem 'gassy' just fussy

[carolina_bug]

Yeah, if you are giving the Ranitidine as directed, you shouldn't have any left past the month expiry date.  It also takes about a month for it to build up and you will start seeing results.  That's what happened for my DS.  We had to call them a week before it expired so they could get the ingredients to mix it and have it ready. 

I forgot to mention that another huge thing that helped my DS was sleeping on his stomach.  I KNOW, that's supposed to be a huge no-no but there are other factors that combined with sleeping on the stomach can result in SIDS.  I was still nervous, so I ordered a small device that you pin on the back of the inside of the diaper and it picks up the smallest motion.  If the motion (breathing) stops, it beeps very loudly.  This gave  me peace of mind and the pressure on his stomach helped him to rest better.

I'm not saying that is what you should do, everyone should do what they think is the right thing to do, but for us, it helped immensely.