5am wake ups are back I don't think it's an EASY issue?

[Skadiver13]

I posted this in general sleep issues but haven't gotten any responses. So I thought I'd try here. Not sure it's an easy issue but if you all can take a look?

Hi all, so they are back, we had a good few weeks where even if he woke he could put himself back to sleep. But last week he's been up at 5:45/5:20 and now 5. I don't think he needs an A time increase as he's doing good naps 1.5hr 2X a day, although three days he did a 1.25hr nap and woke up crying which is odd I think however it was his teeth. Here is is typical easy
Wake at 5am I leave him in the dark until wake up of 6am.
W 6
E: 6:30 solids 45 later
A:
S: 9
E: 10:30
A:
S: 1:30
E:3
A:5:30
S: 6.. He is so tired however by 6pm that its hard to get him to take his final bottle. I'm not sure if this is causing his early wakings or not.
Wakes to eat anywhere between 11:45pm and 2:30am and diaper change.
Usually stirs around 4:15-4:45  will ether put himself back to sleep or i got in a shush once and he's back out. Wakes again between 5-6. It was 6 for a good 3 weeks since I upped his A time.  But now we're back to 5. He wakes talking to himself etc. sometimes it looks as if he wants to go back to sleep but he can't the past 3 days it's been he's up and ether slamming his legs with his eyes closed or talking to himself. If I try and rock him he just sticks his head in my shoulder and makes funny noises. If I try and put him back down he goes back to slamming his legs etc. . I tried medicating that didn't work. It's not too hot or cold. He has a full diaper but always does so I don't think that's it and I've tried changing it and that's not it. When he wakes at 5 I can't realistically get him to last until his nap time of 9am. The other morning I put him down at 8:30 because he was so tired and miserable. Yesterday he was catching up on sleep from Thanksgiving where he had an A time of 5hrs before bed at 7:30pm plus he woke at 5am. He slept 2hrs in the AM and a 1.5hr nap in the pm. Bedtime at 6:30 (tried earlier but ended up vomiting his medication and had to rebath him really quick etc.)..Not sure what to do. It's not even really a 10.5hr night because he's awake for 30-45min eating and going back to sleep in the middle of the night. I'm at a loss.

Thoughts??

[jessmum46]

So sorry you've been missed on GS honey - do you want me to lock and link to this thread?

Only got a second to post now but will be back as soon as I can - will think about it for you and hopefully come up with a plan x

[jessmum46]

Ok, having had another look I think that although the EASY looks good, those 5am wakings may well be OT   how long is it since you dropped the CN and have been on 3h A times?  The fact that he is crashing at 6pm suggests to me that although the naps are of a good length, he's not actually fully rested by them.  What is his mood like when he wakes from his first nap of the day? 

The other thing I wondered about was the night feed - 30-45 mins sounds a long time to me Are you bf or bottle? How long does a typical feed take in the day? Do you always do a diaper change? I would suggest you only change him if the diaper is dirty as you may well be waking him up too much and disturbing his sleep. At night, feeds should be brief, no interaction and its actually ok in the middle of the night to feed to sleep if your LO self settles at other times.

Sorry so many questions to begin with but hopefully with a bit more info we can get you back on track

[Skadiver13]

I think we dropped the CN about 3-4 weeks ago he kept fighting it and making his day long. We moved to 3hr A about 2-3 weeks ago because he was EW then around 4:45 and then he went back to sleeping till 6 but then it went back to 5. Up until about a week ago all his naps he'd wake at 45 min and couldn't get back to sleep so I had to apop the rest. Then he started sleeping through his jolts I'm not sure if that's because he can or if he's crashing now through all his naps. His first nap he slept 1hr24 min and the next nap he slept 45min woke up and couldn't get back to sleep so I had to apop it and he slept 1hr45min. He alwasy wakes happy from his naps with the occasional one where he'll be cranky but that's very very rare so that's not a good judge for him. He was so tired so I tired to put him down at 5:30 tonight but he wouldn't go to sleep. Finally fell asleep at 6. Do you think I should try 2hr45? But that would make the A before bedtime too long?

For the night feeds his diaper is soaked by the AM time so I continued to change it at the feeding. He gets a bottle before bed then a bottle i the middle of the night so I thought i had to. I figured he'd be uncomfortable if I didn't change it and that would cause him to wake up early? Should I just leave him be? It's not always 30-45min. Sometimes it's 20 it's not the eating that takes a while (he's bottle fed) it's him trying to get himself back to sleep. Sometimes he'll go right back to sleep, sometimes I need to go in a few times to shush pat him back to sleep that's what takes a while. He never feeds to sleep because the minute I take the bottle out to burp him he wakes up.

I don't mind answering questions at all. I think you are right he's OT but not sure how to fix it?

[jessmum46]

I figured he'd be uncomfortable if I didn't change it and that would cause him to wake up early? Should I just leave him be?

I think this is up to you - if you feel he needs it then obviously it's fine to go ahead, bearing in mind that you want to keep light and interaction to an absolute minimum overnight.  What we do is to use a size larger diaper at night so hopefully it's more absorbent.  Disposables are so good at soaking up liquid these days that actually there isn't much sensation of being wet, and often at this age the awareness of being wet/soiled isn't really there. 

It's tricky to know what to do for the best with the routine.......I think if it was my DD given we think OT is the issue, I'd try for a catch-up day i.e. put her down for her first nap early, and accept that we might need 3 naps to get through the day (APOP a catnap if you can to get to a sensible BT).  We had to do a fgew 3 naps days after 'officially' dropping the 3rd nap for similar reasons to this.  You don't want to be allowing a long early nap too often though as that can perpetuate early wakings, but as a one-off it may work.  I've found a catch-up day can work in one of two ways - either she naps well and the OT EW goes away, or the day is long, she ends up in bed later and still EWs, but is much more tired and can be APOPed back to sleep. 

My only other thought was have you tried feeding at 5am?  There's a huge growth spurt around 6 months and I assume he's not fully established on solids yet? 

[Skadiver13]

I'll see with the diaper. It literally takes me 60 seconds to change. I don't talk to him etc. But it might not hurt to just go up a size and see if that helps.

I'll try a catch up day and see what we get. Should I lower his A time do you think? This morning he woke at 4:45 resettled till 5:20 then was awake. I left him till 6. Apoping a nap is very hard. He doesn't sleep in the car or even walking in the stroller. He's way too alert and will not sleep anywhere but his crib swaddled. I could try and rock him but it probably may not work. As for feeding I could try but like last night he ate at 12:30 5oz I wouldn't think he'd be hungry again at 5am. Also when I do get him up at 6am he's so hard to feed he often refuses that morning bottle and it's a struggle to get him to eat it. He's not firmly on solids yet, he's barely eating 1-2oz in the AM he so hard and just very very picky. He's only 16lbs as he's just a very fussy/picky eater from his early days of reflux pain.

[jessmum46]

I'd sometimes do 15 mins or so less for the first A time if I'm trying a deliberate catch-up day.  Doesn't always work - sometimes we get UT nap   But when it does it can be great!

[Skadiver13]

Must have read your mind . Just put him down at 8:45 instead of 9. Fingers crossed. But i meant in general do you think I should back off this A time? We didnt do anything different to cause him to be OT to begin with? So maybe 3hrs is too much?

[jessmum46]

I think you mentioned teeth? If you've been on 3h for 2-3 weeks I don't think you need to go backwards permanently, just until he catches up a bit.  Teeth can make LOs be more tired and also unsettled in the early hours. Never done it myself but you could try dream meds at around 3am?

[Skadiver13]

Ok I can try the dream meds if this doesn't work. I put him down at 8:45am and ended up waking him up at 11. He probably could have kept going but I didn't want to go more than 2hrs 15min. That's the longest nap he's had in a long time. Then I tired to put him down for his second nap with an A of 2hrs45min but he fought a bit so it was more like 2hrs 53min till he shut his eyes. But it's been an hr so far so we'll see how he does. Should I also shoot for an early BT? Another A of 2hr45min? Maybe I just pushed the 3hrs too soon so the OT built up but now that he'll be 6.5months this week maybe 3hrs will work once I get him caught up. I can tell he's OT he's cranky when he's never cranky. The eating is a whole other issue. He often refuses bottles all together or will only eat 1-3oz then stop eating. It's not reflux as he's not crying or anything he's just looking around and wants to go about his day. He's my little wiggle worm. Thank you so much for your help. I'll let you know how the morning goes.

[jessmum46]

Great catch up nap fingers crossed for the rest of the day too! I'd do probably a full A time if he has a good second nap and seems well rested x

[Skadiver13]

Well he woke up at 1hr 19min.. not sure what that means.

[jessmum46]

Potentially UT after a good first nap....I'd do a full A or thereabouts x

[Skadiver13]

ok thanks. He's laying in his crib blowing raspberries.

[jessmum46]

Cute!!