7.5month old standing/crawling in crib at bed/nap time! Help!!

[Ajustyna]

Hi everyone,

My DS is 7.5months old and has recently started crawling/pulling himself up when in his crib.  This is causing a REALLY big problem at bed time and nap time.  He has always been a really good sleeper and napper so this is something new for us.  Over the last few days as soon as we put him in his crib he turns over on his belly and crawls to the railing and pulls himself up.  My husband or I are pretty much always in his room and we put him back down.  Sometimes this leads to a crying fit and other times he just gets right back up again.  He has fallen over a few times and hit his head or other parts of his body so we are afraid to leave him by himselft.  His crib is at the lowest setting already.

I am not sure if we should let me get up/fall down or if we should lay him back down each time he gets up? His naps (especially his 2nd nap) are very messed up due to this from the last few days.  I belive he is also getting his 3rd/possibly4th tooth so I know this may also be affecting his sleeping. 

Also, recently (2-3days) he has been waking up at night (2-3am) and not going back to bed until he eats.  He has ben sleeping all night without eating for over a month now.  Is this possibly another growth spurt or is he just cranky and this settles him down? He is FF now (i stopped bf ~1month ago) and get two meals a day (breakfast and late lunch). We had to give up his swaddle at about 4months and now he sleep with a blanket with no problems.  I dont know if we should try a sleep sack?  He also takes a pacifier if that makes any difference. 

Here is our EASY from a few days

good one (week ago)-
W/U 900
E-900
A-9-11
S-11-1

E-2
A-1-4
S-4-6

E-6
A-6-8 (bath/etc)
E -8
S-830


Thursday
(NW at 2am and got bottle)

W/U- 7
E-7
fell back asleep - S 7-9
E- 9 AND 10 (MILK AND THEN CEREAL)
A-9-12
S-12-2 (would not fall asleep sooner)
 
E -2
A-2-4
S-4-4:45

E-5 AND 6
A-5-9 (started bed time routine around 7:45 but very restless and would not go down)   
S-9

Today
NW - 3am and ate bottle
S- 4-7AM
E- 7, 8
A-7-12

E-12
S-12-1:30

E-2
A-1:30-4
S-4-4:30

E -6 AND 7
A-4:30-9 (bed time routine started at 7:30 but would not lie down) 
S-9

I dont know if I have to move his A time up? His second nap is really suffering lately and then by bed time he is exhausted but cant lie down and fall asleep. 

Please help!

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) - developmental milestones and teeth can really mess with sleep.  Have you medicated for teeth?  Have you considered spending some A time in his crib so he can practice getting up and down again?

Generally if he stands in his crib, but isn't crying for you I would leave him to it.  I know it can sound dreadful when they are crashing around in there and bumping into the bars, but he is unlikely to do himself any serious damage.  If he did fall and hurt himself he would cry for you, and you would go to him.  Obviously if he is standing and crying, then you would go to him, lie him back down (just the PD part of PUPD) and say your sleep phrase again.

Looking at your EASY I'm not sure what time you are aiming to start the day?  Are you wanting roughly a 9am to 9pm day?

I do suspect he needs a bit more A time in general, though some of your A times are really long.  Thursday for example he did 3h A time, then a great nap, but then he went for a nap only 2h later and slept 45mins - a classic UT nap.  Then by BT he was way OT (probably already OT by 7.45pm) as he wouldn't have been able to handle a full A time after a short nap.  Then today his day was way too long from 7am-9pm with only 2h of day sleep.

What I would suggest is aiming for a consistent 3h A time and two 1.5h-2h naps, so the day could look a bit like:

WU 9am
Nap 12-1.30/2pm
Nap 4.30/5-6/6.30pm
BT 9/9.30pm

If you get a short nap (less than 1.5h) then aim for a slightly shorter next A time, say 2h30-45.  If one or both naps is short then I would bring BT earlier to compensate.  If you get two good naps your day will need to be at least 12h long or you will get UT night wakings (cot parties!).

What do you think?

[Ajustyna]

Thank you so much for the reply! Milestones are alot harder to deal with than I anticipated.  Each ones throws me off! We are using Camilla for his teeth but very rarely.  I am trying not to give him any "real" medication..we will see how long I can hang on! 

So Ive done what you suggested.. put him in his crib when its A time and let him practice (he has also learned how to "fall better"!!), did pu/pd, and moved A times up to be 3 hours consistently and it is all working like a charm! I know its just two days of the "new" A time and what not but it is amazing. I think since he was tired after 2hrs of A time in the morning I just assumed he needed to go to sleep and then I tried to have the same A time  in the PM and that was not working for him, so crib time became a fight!

We are aiming for a 8-8 day so I have taken your schedule and just adjusted it and so far its great.  Today we had:

wu 7:15am
nap 10-12
nap 3-4:30
bedtime  8:00

We started bath time early to try to get him in bed by 7:30 but he was having so much fun it ran long..

He is getting up around 5 most days and I give him a bottle and then he continues sleeping. If he doesnt wake up should I not bother with the bottle?  We started with the bottle a couple weeks ago because he was waking up and not going back to sleep so we would all be up around 5am. 

[jessmum46]

Wow that sounds like its suiting him great!

Up to you about the early morning bottle - I wouldn't wake him to give it (if that's what you meant) but plenty of mums are still giving a feed at that time at this age.  If you want to wean it you could slowly reduce the oz over a number of days and hopefully he'll start taking more in the day to compensate?

[Ajustyna]

Hi!

Just wanted to say thanks again for your help. Our days have gotten so much better and it seems like alot of our original problems are resolved. We have a new problem now with and additional night waking around 2-3 and he will not go to back to sleep until he gets a small bottle (60-120ml). Any advice? Could this be a growth spurt?

[jessmum46]

How much milk in total does he have in the daytime?

Does he wake happy or upset at 2/3am?

How are his naps/EASY looking now?

[Ajustyna]

How much milk in total does he have in the daytime?
-he eats between 800-900ml during the day along with 2-3 meals. He usually doesn't want to eat all the milk I offer him but at bedtime he will eat between 200-260ml.

Does he wake happy or upset at 2/3am?
-upset. He usually wakes up crying and stands up. I go in and give him his pacifier and try to get him settled but usually he won't calm down until he gets his bottle. He rarely open his eyes, usually only if I have him in my arms because he won't stop crying.

How are his naps/EASY looking now?
I feel like its going well

W/u between 7-8
Nap 10-1130/12 or 11-1230/1pm depending on wake up time
Nap 3-430 or 4-5 depending on wake up
Bedtime 730-800
 
He is mostly up at 7:15-7:30 because my husband wakes up. If we are all sleeping in he will go a bit longer.
He eats right after he wakes up and then gets his solids about 1hour after. A time has consistently been about 3 hours.



Last night I tried to only give him water when he woke up at 230am. He seemed to settle a bit but would not go back to sleep. I tried shh/pat and pu/pd. I gave him his pacifier and turned on his mobile which he goes to bed with but nothing worked. He would settle for 2minutes and the start crying again. At 330 I made him 60ml and diluted it with water to 100ml. He drank 60ml and was asleep by 340am. I had to wake him up at 815am. I guess he could just be hungry? I feel like he is always going through a growth spurt though and will only take his additional food at night.
Thanks for the quick reply!!

[jessmum46]

His milk intake and EASY look great.  Do you think he is any discomfort at all?  I ask because crying wakings for us at that time of night are usually related to teeth.  Have you tried medicating at all?  The other reason for long NWs at that time is UT, though LO would normally wake fairly happy.  If you rule out discomfort as a possibility, it may be that you need to give him slightly more A time and see if that makes a difference.

[Ajustyna]

He is teething for sure..and has been for a while.  He had his two bottom teeth and im pretty sure both his top ones are almost cutting through.  I thought about giving him medicine at betime (8pm) but I didnt think it would last till 2am? Do you recommend anything for teething? I have tylenol. Try that maybe?

Last night he was stirring around 230 am and i went in, gave him pacifier.  He settled down but was getting up again around 240am. I went in, did shh/pat and then i went to go make him a bottle (60ml diluted to 100ml).  He was sleeping when i had the bottle ready so I left him.  5 minutes after his was waking up again so I went in and gave him the bottle and he went right back to sleep.  Should I have waited to see if he would wake up complelty?

After that he slept till 6am, woke up crying.  I gave him pacifier and made him a bottle (60ml).  Gave him that and he went back to bed till 830. 

I will try increasing his A time today by 15min and see if that makes any different in the next few days. Should i push back his bedtime to accomodate the longer A times or should I shorten his second nap? Or should I wake him up earlier?

He has also been waking up crying recently, where as before he would wake up happy? Could this also be related to teeth?

Thanks so much again for your help.. I feel very lost here.

[jessmum46]

I've always found Ibuprofen (Advil) better for teething than Tylenol.  You can try giving it as a dream med before you go to bed (just use an oral syringe) which might get you past the 2am mark.

I think with feeds at night at this age it depends what you're comfortable with.  It's not unusual to still be having a night feed, and often when LO is uncomfortable a feed is comforting and helps them settle back to sleep.  Just be aware it can turn into a prop if you feed at every night waking, though I'm not saying that has become the case yet.

Crying wake ups can be related to teeth or overtiredness.

With increasing A times, you would start your day at the normal time, and just make BT a little later if needed to accommodate.  Generally the advice is to keep the day to a maximum 13h so if the day would be too long, you would need to start capping one of the naps.  Hopefully you're a way off that yet though

[Ajustyna]

I will try the medication as soon as I can go buy some this weekend! Thanks for the advice on the Advil.

I have extended his A time yesterday and today and last night we only had one NW at 330 so I was quite happy! He woke up cooing and content at 720 so perfect.. Lets see how the next few days go.

Today his second nap started just before 4 and I woke him up at the 1.5hr mark since its already 1730! He woke up pretty happy so hopefully he won't take it out on me at night .

Just another small question.. How long should his naps be at 8months? He will happily sleep for 3 hours sometimes if I let him (I rarely do..usually if grandparents are watching him though..). I though 2 hours was the golden mark but does it decrease as they get older? I read some other people's schedules an it seems like the second nap is usually shorter.

[jessmum46]

It varies - a low sleep needs LO might be having one long nap of 1.5-2h, and one short nap of 45 mins to an hour or so, whereas a high sleep needs LO might still be having two 1.5-2h naps per day.  Unless you've had a really rough night/illness, I probably would wake him after 2h as that's a fully restorative nap and you will start eating into his night sleep if he has much longer.

[Ajustyna]

Hi, Happy Sunday!

So bought the hyland teething tables to try before the advil and seems to have worked! LO slept from 830 till 4am and then small bottle and back to bed till 720! Thank you thank you thank you and thank you for all your help! Hopefully we can keep this going!

[jessmum46]

Great, keep us posted!