Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition - #25

[Shiv52]

Carried on from here:

Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition? Thread #24

Please remember mods are now deleting any posts meant simply to m@rk your spot in a thread, in order to keep the BW boards as neat as can be. Please post an actual comment when you are ready to participate in the discussions.

[Lindsay27]

Tweetie, I didn't sleep train until 8 months and I always rocked my DS to sleep for naps and at BT.  It wasn't much of an issue for me as he liked to be rocked and it took literally 5 mins and he was out (and I got some baby snuggles in the meantime  ).  As soon as he learned to crawl however, he refused to be rocked so I had no choice but to sleep train.  I basically did WI/WU because having me in the room with him just got him distracted and worked up even more.

It is also REALLY important to understand what type of cry is "settling" and what you actually need to go in for.  It took me a long time to understand that - I was so afraid of CIO that I wasn't actually allowing him to go to sleep on his own.  The starting/stopping cry is just settling and you don't need to go in for that which was a huge revelation for me.

It took probably 3 days - I did it for every nap and at BT, and that was it   Once you are committed to doing it you realize what an amazing thing independent sleep is,  it really doesn't take as long as you'd expect.  Sometimes if WI/WU wasn't working, I'd just sit in the rocking chair so he could see me and he'd cry and cry and cry, but eventually lie down and settle.  I found that physically touching him was too distracting, and even if I sat beside the crib he'd stand up and pat me on the top of my head LOL.

Just be consistent and be dedicated and she will get it  

[tweetie]

Thank you Lindsay I appreciate it  . Yesterday she did fell asleep by herself, no crying just fussing ; it took her around 50 minutes in total. I am ignoring her when she is trying to touch me but when she reaches the point where she is really worn out from all activity in the crib she needs my hand and she is squeezing it and squeezing. Today I plan to put her little later in the crib maybe it will take her shorter.

Regarding transition. We returned back to two naps- of course she woke up today at 5 am.  (I stopped to cap am nap - could not get longer pm nap ; just once in a while - after 2 weeks she was horrible OT -  screaming few hours in the night plus cold and congested nose and coughing...)   I tried to "make" her sleep till 5.30 am but did not work. I plan to cut pm nap today in order to keep 3.5 hr to bed and 13 hr day so we will see.

[songbird]

Hi all!

DD is 9.5 months old so not quite at the 2-1 transition but close to it? She can handle a bit over 4 hrs for her second A after a good first nap but I would have to cap this nap to make a reasonable bed time.  So at the moment I'm waking Lo at the hour mark for the first nap (after 3:45 A) and then putting her down for second nap alsp after 3:45A. She usually does a 1 hr nap pm. But her A Time will increase soon and just wondering what has worked for you at this stage?

If I keep the morning nap (because I am worried she won't take a good pm nap? ) do I give her the second nap after her full A (4:10) but then cut this one short to make for good bed time?  or will a short nap after a long A make her really grumpy?Her last A is usually quite a bit shorter than the rest of the day at 3:30 or so.

Or is it preferable for LOs with the longest second A to do a shorter am nap and a longer pm nap instead? If so how short should I make the am nap? Really  scared of making it too short?  And with a capped am nap do I still aim to push out the A time or should I let it be an UT nap since I will be capping anyway?

Thanks!

[Skadiver13]

Well... He's sick.. So all tweaking is now out. I did do the short AM CN and woke him at 40min he just seemed so tired from not feeling well I felt bad. But he was a happy kid when I woke him up. Put him down 2.5hrs later. He protested a lot but was obviously tired so I think he was just not understanding why i was putting him down as he'd already slept and it was off routine. But a little apop and he was out. Slept 1.5hrs to the minute, and woke on his own. Put him down 4.5hrs later (tried for 4 but he was having none of it ).  So BT was 6:30 (after a 5:45am wake up), he woke at 3:50 but I think this was cough/cold related. Rocked him back to sleep, asleep by 4:15. Woke at 5:20, rocked to sleep for 25min but he was up after that. Still tired but just wouldn't go back to sleep, so another wake up of 5:45. It wouldn't be so bad if I haven't been up since 3:50 oy.

Songbird, it's totally up to you what you think is going to work best. My LO is 11 months and I just tried the capped AM nap for the first time yesterday as he was just taking such glorious 2hr+ naps and we were doing EBT, but OT started to creep in and he stopped tacking on his nights and so we tried it yesterday. I'll let you know how it goes after he's over his cold.

As for the Full A after the first nap it's up to you. If you are going to Cap the nap under a full sleep cycle (45min) than you can do a shorter A as it's going to be an UT nap anyway. It also depends how much A he needs before BT. My LO when he was taking his CN liked a long AM a of 4.5hrs, then a Long AM nap a shorter A of 3.5hrs capped nap of 30min and then a shorter A about 2-2.5hrs to BT. Some LO's do much better with a long PM nap and Long A before BT so the capped AM nap is good. What we did yesterday (my lo is older than yours) was
W: 5:45
S: 9:15-9:45 so it was an UT nap as it was only an A of 3.5hrs in the AM but that's ok
S: 12:25-2:05 woke on his own
S: 6:30

I used to do this when he was taking a CN.
W: 6:30
S: 11-1
S:4:30-5
S:7:30

For your LO since he's younger you can still cap the nap but leave it a bit longer like an Hr or so if that's what works for you? Does this makes sense, sorry if it's jumbled.

[Papaya]

Wecome Songbird Have you read the 2-1 transition links? They have come info about the two options (short am nap or short pm nap)

10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first!
from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps

I would only cap one of the naps, as I found with my LO that OT crept in very quickly if I ever capped both. So either let her sleep as long as she likes in the morning and cap the pm for a reasonable bedtime, or cap the am, do a shorter second A and a long pm nap. There's no right or wrong way to do it - think about whether your LO generally seems to prefer her morning or afternoon nap; what suits your daily routine better (for any other commitments etc) and whether your LO is prone to EWs (which can often be helped by a capped am nap).

[Skadiver13]

Well he will on his own after 38 min. Coughing. Is 2.5hrs an ok A before the next nap if he's OT

[tweetie]

Skadiver - sorry to her your DS is sick. Pay attention not to end up with built OT - we had that last whole week after DD was sick (same thing bad coughing and congested nose) and I was cutting am nap - screaming nights - 2 hr in average - horrible...

You are talking about A time after am nap? I was told 2.5 hr is maximum (after 30 min nap) so just go for it. My lady would be awake for 3 hr or even longer and we payed for that...

[Skadiver13]

Thanks we did 2.5hrs and he slept 1hr 40min but fitfully. :/ poor guy.

[Lindsay27]

Ben is waking himself up coughing too, bah!  Poor wee ones

So, I think tomorrow I'm going to give the short am/long pm another whirl.  What do you ladies suggest for the timing - he's usually up around 5:50am these days.  Do I do a full A and then the short nap? Would something like this work?

WU 5:50
Nap 9:30 - 10:15
A
Nap 1pm - hopefully 3 or 3:30
BT 7pm

I am just worried because the last time I tried this he only did 1.20hr for his PM nap and we hit OT immediately and he does NOT do well with EBTs.

[Skadiver13]

So this is what I've done past 2 days. Now he still is waking early but I think that's do to  not feeling well and i'm going to stick with it for now to see if after his cold is gone he'll fix the EW.
W: 5:45
S: 3.5hrs later (he normally does a 4.5hr A but I'm doing a short nap so I want to make sure he's UT for it) been doing between 30-40min depending how he settles. So today was 9:15-9:55
Then I do an A of 2.5hrs I've heard anything more than that will make them OT after a short CN. If you think about it he'll have been up from 5:45-the second nap around 6.5hrs with only 30min nap. I wouldn't want to do more than that.
S: 12:25 till whenever. Yesterday he woke at 1.5hr on the dot. Today he did 1hr 40min. Honestly 1hr20min I don't think is non-restorative if he has that CN, it may be he's just coming out of his sleep cycle and light sleeping and something wakes him and he can't drift back off? But I've been told that 1hr20min isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I guess it depends on the A you had before.
Then Sleep 4-4.5hrs later after a good nap. AFter a short nap I would cut that A back significantly and do EBT. I know EBT doesn't work for you but that's the only thing I can suggest if he short naps. :/ Maybe just a little early. So today he woke at 2:15. I will put to bed between 6:15-6:30. (a little early because of his cold)

So long story short
1st A 3.5hrs
CN 30-40min
2nd A 2.5hrs
Nap Hopefully 1.5+
Bed 4-4.5hrs after wake up to keep under 13hr day.

Hope this helps.

[Lindsay27]

Okay, so 1pm might be too late for the PM nap, might need to pull it a bit earlier.

Skadiver, have you tried resettling that 1.20hr PM nap?  I know when we were doing it before Ben woke up a few times at the 1.20hr point, but I was able to resettle him and he'd sleep another 40mins.  I think like you said it might be a sleep cycle thing.

[Skadiver13]

I do sometimes but most of the time he's up for good. He just isn't tired enough to keep sleeping. I've heard once they go to one nap re-settling gets easier as they know this is it for them if they wake. My LO has never been good with me helping him settle. He'll ether do it himself or not at all. Seems like that might just be a sign of things to come.. "i can do it"...
Something funny: http://www.wetpaint.com/moms/video/girl-tells-dad-worry-about-yourself

[tweetie]

..Skadiver I am glad if new "program" could work 

We have mess again, up from - 9.30-11 pm - very tired, crying, bunch of APOP finally co-sleeping , it worked till 3 am and we are again awake, lots of APOP nothing works so for now she is ok in her crib and "edgy". I know again we end up with built OT, last two days EASY is all over the place because of sleep training, in short first A almost 5 hr (by day before yesterday 4 hr), S 1.15 hr, A 4 hr (usually the most 3.5 hr), S 20 min (I cap so I could put her in bed  in normal hours) A 3.10 hr and finally BT - no way she would fall a sleep sooner. Whole day was 14 hr  . What to do, give up from sleep training and wait to pass first that transition? I am stuck completely...

[Lindsay27]

Tweetie, I would do 1 or 2 days of catch up in the hopes of levelling out that OT.  I've had to do it a few times during this transition because my LO does not handle OT at all.  It might make your days long, but maybe a day or 2 of not capping any naps and not really paying attention to A times (just putting her down when she's tired) might help.  The sleep training is a process, but she will get it, and it will get easier

We are in a bit of an OT mess ourselves, so I'm not sure my plan of doing the short am/long pm nap tomorrow is a good one Both yesterday and today he only did 1.20hr in the AM and 30mins (clearly OT as he was a BEAR after waking both days), so it's starting to accumulate.  And, DH and I had a banquet to go to tonight so we picked up up from Nana & Grandpa's late and he wasn't in bed until after 8pm.  Probably an EW tomorrow which will just be FANTASTIC on this little sleep.  Groan.  Hate the 2 -1!