Too many problems with sleep - where to start?!

[Lindy612]

Hi, I'm very new and just found this site. Just finished reading the BW book and have been trying the last few days to get my 8wk old onto the EASY programme. Managing the eating and activity bit ok but the sleep thing is so all over the place I don't even know where to begin unravelling it all.

Basically up to this point we've just been winging it and letting him sleep/nap/feed/be wakeful on his terms and just doing our best to keep him from crying. We've realised this isn't working, he's frequently overtired which makes him more grumpy and doesn't help his digestive gripes. (Mild reflux, upset by wind and poos)

Basically we haven't taught him how to go to sleep and instead of winding him down when he was OT I think we were winding him up and over stimulating him to get him to stop crying and feeding to settle him so he was snacking.

Now BF  3hourly and he does much better from that point of view, proper feeds and digestion much better.

He just isn't able to nap properly during the day or resettle after wakening at night.
We have previously let him sleep in bouncy chair or pushchair during the day but all very erratic, sometimes for 2-3 hours in the morning, sometimes in the afternoon, we justified this as we thought being more upright helped his reflux but as that has been much better with regular feeds I think he would be happier to get regular sleep in his crib. Problem is putting him down awake in his crib just leads to immediate screaming rage which only crescendos no matter how much pat/shush or pat or shush I do, settles when I pick him up but then starts again immediately on putting him down. He will stay awake all day rather than nap in his crib. Today he was awake at 7, fell asleep for 45 mins in his pram at 9 when we were walking the dog then for the rest of the day we have been trying to get him to sleep and he went from 9.45am until 6.30pm when I gave in and lay down with him as I think he just needs sleep however it happens now!

At night he usually sleeps for 3-4hours then feeds but takes about 90mins to go back down, then will sleep for about another 1-2 hours then wants another feed and might nap in his bouncy chair for another hour or two after that if we're lucky and my DH or I have to intermittently bounce him to keep him asleep!
As I write this I'm totally cringing, I need to teach my little guy how to sleep.

He HATES being swaddled and always has. I have had some success with holding him through the jerks at night but its about 50/50 if he wakes up when I ease my hands off after 20-30mins.


HELP!

Thanks

[brummum]

Hi there, so sorry he's struggling at the moment. He sounds really overtired doesn't he?! My first thought when I read this was is his reflux under control? Is he on any meds? It sounds like there might be some underlying pain/discomfort preventing him settling. At this age I really wouldn't beat yourself up about teaching him to self settle, alot of people find that their babies respond much quicker and with much less upset if they have done it a bit later (3-5 months). IMO I think alot of them just aren't ready when they are this young to be able to master that skill. If I were you I would concerntrate on getting him the sleep he needs during the day however you can (I would be wary of the bouncing though as this can aggravate reflux due to the movement). Sling/buggy/car.. anything that works, and see if he needs a review of his reflux. For reference the average awake time for this age is 1:15-1:20 and that's eyes open to eyes closed so includes any settling time needed. If you want to start laying the foundations for independent sleep alot of people start with introducing it for one of the naps and accidental parent the others to prevent them getting overtired. We can help with how to do this if you want to but I really would catch him up on some sleep however you can first and check that reflux isn't bothering him. I hope this helps.

[Lindy612]

Thank you,
His reflux really is much better, although I think it sometimes does bother him a bit, he had infant gaviscon but it was quite a faff to get him to take it as hes bf and it didn't really help, it is much better with regular 3 hourly feeding and with keeping him upright after feeds so EASY seems to work well. He's got good weight gain and now only has occasional and small possets rather than regular larger possets/vomits but I will keep an eye.
I managed to get him down for 3 naps yesterday all by APOP I'm afraid so your advice makes me feel much better. I think I will try your suggestion of just trying to get him to sleep, maybe if we concentrate on getting him used the schedule for a bit he won't be so resistant to going down and in a few weeks we can start working on self settling, starting with one nap and working from there. I think I was maybe expecting a bit much and need to take things more slowly.

[ZacsMumme]

Hey Hun. I'm glad you feel the reflux is better controlled now
I just wanted to see if you thought having the cot elevated may help him settle, just incase he is still fluxing a little? I remember T would reflux even on meds and it was the liquid coming up, even when the Acid was gone that bothered him. Sleeping elevated can help minimise this.

Does he have a paci?

He is still little, do what you need too - I think your plan is great. Gently follow his cues AND try to move him towards a pattern and encourage longer naps and a reasonable BT and BT routine (if you haven't yet)
If you can get him responsive to sh/pat or any variant (my first liked a bottom pat and my second liked a back rub) then you can move this from your arms to the cot and tea h him sleep that way.

There is a big GS at 8-10 and/or12 weeks or so - keep an eye out for refluxing during these times xx

[brummum]

Go easy on yourself and don't be afraid to enjoy loads of sleepy cuddles!

[Lindy612]

Hi ZacsMumme, thanks, we are doing as many non medication things to help with reflux as we know of so we've got his crib elevated a bit, he does use a paci and we try to keep him upright for at least 15mins after a feed. Of everything we've done though I think the most effective has been keeping him to a roughly 3 hr feeding schedule and discouraging snacking. Any other non medication reflux strategies would be much appreciated!
Sleep wise today we have at least managed a nap within each 3hr cycle, one decent and the rest about 30-40mins at the end but this is an improvement, I was trying to incorporate shush/pat into the settling and it is starting to work a bit, DH has his own ideas of settling and I came in to find he had successfully managed to get him off to sleep by dancing him round the living room to upbeat house music - I suspect he overstimulated him until he was totally zonked but well well, couldn't really comment as it had worked but will be trying to discourage this - I don't have the energy to do that for every nap that's for sure - need to have another gentle chat about consistency!
I've managed to get him down for about 10.30 tonight which is an improvement, working towards an earlier decent bedtime but when I put him down at 8pm he only napped for half an hour then wouldn't settle again. We're a work in progress!
Any tips for resettling at night? he often does a 2hr wakeful period in the middle of the night too which can be a bit soul destroying. I keep lights off, don't change unless dirty/nappy leaked, no talking or eye contact already.
Thank you!

[karindmor]

Have you tried feeding him at an incline? My son would eat so fast he would give himself gas. Feeding at an incline definitely helped him

[Violet's mom]

Hi!  I know you said you think your son hates his swaddle - can you elaborate on why you think that?  I know my dd appeared to hate her swaddle (fought it) but after a few tries she really slept much better with it. 

As far as settling at night - have you ruled out hunger?  What do you usually do to help him resettle? 

And finally - just some encouragement!  Hang in there he's still really young - try to relax and enjoy - my LO is 6 months today and is just starting to get solid naps most of the time despite lots of work on my part - she just had her own plans

[Lindy612]

Hi Shuler_girl, thanks, I breast feed, mainly in cradle hold but might try some different, more upright positions, that's a good idea 

viloet's mum granted it has been a good few weeks since I tried to swaddle him but he would fight and wriggle and cry until he was released - I always gave up after about 10mins max, I did try with one and both arms up as well, if you think it's worth it I could give it another go - do you know up to what age it's recommended to?

I always feed him when he wakes in the night and he usually takes a good feed, it's still every 3 hours day and night that he wants to. I have been trying to feed him 2 hourly for last couple of feeds, so far that's not extended his sleep but I'm actually not too worried about that, I'm happy to feed him a couple of times through the night at this point especially if he is doing a good feed and not just suckling for a couple of minutes for comfort. Last night I tried a dream feed about 1am - just shy of 3 hours after his previous feed and he actually did pretty well with that, it's the first time I've tried it, he stirred but didn't get fully alert, took a shortish but fairly determined feed and went back down. He woke again about 2 hours later looking for a proper feed, fed well but then despite having fed him in the dark, no speaking/eye contact etc he was wide awake and grizzling/not wanting put down and took a good hour and a half to settle back to sleep with shush/pat slow walking and then holding him while he finally went to sleep in his crib, then he was only down for less than an hour when he was awake again and we gave in and let him sleep in his bouncy chair beside our bed so we could get another couple of hours sleep!
I'm so glad I found this board - after I read the book Tracy made it sound so easy (no pun intended) and I think it is simple good advice which will help but it's not that easy!! Good to see other mums also have to work on things and adapt to suit their LO's. I think an outside perspective really helps sometimes because its too easy to get into a tangle without realising it!

[Violet's mom]

How old is he again?

Does the chair he likes to sleep in have an incline?  My gassy baby slept in an incline bassinet for the first 3 months (swaddled) and then went into her crib - maybe its tough for him to lay down flat after a proper feed?  You could try inclining the crib slightly but I would only do that if he tolerates the swaddle better. 

I swaddled her until 3.5 months - she started rolling so I had to do one arm out - are you swaddling him nice and tight?  And after the swaddling are you settling him - holding him upright against your chest and loud shhhh next to his ear (not in it) if necessary? 

Let me know if that helps at all!  I know my LO slept much longer swaddled.

[ZacsMumme]

I bf my first quite elevated too. I tried to have him almost sitting on me. I you have a fast flow you can try the opposite, feeding lying down to slow the flow.

You can try getting a positioner trying side sleeping if you are comfortable with it. My boys always slept better on their left sides when fluxy and gassy xx

[Lindy612]

Hi again, sorry, been offline for a couple of days after a lightning strike took out the Internet connection and phone!
Violets mum - he's 9weeks now. I tried the swaddle again, waited until he was calm and quite sleepy and then wrapped him in it and held him upright shushing him, he was ok for a few seconds then just got really wriggly then wide awake and screamy, gave up again I'm afraid, don't think he finds it soothing at all! I think he has a touch of spirited (or possibly grumpy ) about him!
I have the crib at a bit of an angle, it was more but I would find him in a crumple at the foot end so more of an angle I would need positioners to bolster him to stop him slipping.

I've found more upright feeding positions and they seem quite good, his wind certainly comes up much easier.

We've just been concentrating on getting a loose EASY routine for the last few days which is working quite well, naps are still the main issue and its still not uncommon for me not to be able to get him to sleep stall during a cycle, no matter how much winding down or actively trying to get him down I do! I have discovered that he seems to sleep best in our local cafe, not sure if its the hum or the yummy smells but I'm using it as an excuse to go eat cake when I can't get him to sleep

[brummum]

I am totally in favour of anything that lets mommies eat cake!! Do you use white noise?if not that might be worth a go. In terms of the incline vs sliding issue we found a solution that meant we didn't have to fork out for expensive positioners. We rolled up a baby blanket length ways, made Horse shoe shape with it and positioned it under his crib sheet so that his bottom sat in the horse shoe. This stopped him sliding and the crib sheet held it in place.

[Lindy612]

Ha ha that's genius Brummum! Definitely going to give that a go. I'm having variable luck with white noise, I'd like to get an app that has white noise - including traffic??! He seems to find busy roads soothing! Any ideas?

[ZacsMumme]

We use the sleep pillow app sometimes