13 month old waking up

[Princesscrackers]

Hello everyone,
This is my first post here and I hope you can help me.

My son is just over 13 mths old and he has never been a great sleeper. Although we basically followed the same routine since day 1, it was still difficult to get him to sleep - once I put him in his crib, he would wake up. He woke up in the night too, even when sleeping in my bed. At 7 months we decided to teach him to sleep on his own as I was simply exhausted. We followed Robin Barker's technique of putting him down and checking up on him every couple of minutes, it worked wonders! He would sleep thought the night for 11-12 hours!
 Shortly after his MMR shot last month it changed - he started to wake up crying really really badly, whenever I went in to try to put him down, he would grab me and cling onto me. I ended up taking him into my bed and cuddling all night, and the whole thing last fvor several nights. Now we have some good nights when he sleeps thought and some bad ones when he wakes up and cries, several times a night, and just cannot settle - crawling in the crib, crying etc. Wakes up at different times, no rule - 1 h after put down, 2hs, even 1 am. Once or several times.

I don't know what to do, I am exhausted and want the best for my baby boy, but I don't know what is the right thing to do, I've started second guessing all I do lately - can you please advise??

Thank you!

Additional info:
- routine: wakeup between 6-7 (exceptionally 5 and , 8 beakfast, playtime and sleep, 12 lunch playtime (swimming) sleep, 4 tea and playtime, no sleep after 4pm, dinner 6:30, peppa pig on tv, bath, book, bottle and sleep
- breastfed until 1 yo, introduced solids at 6 mths, now eats everything, he's a great eater
- no lovie, not keen on dummy
- no props for sleep
- happy baby, normal development
- 2 naps during day, vary - mostly falls asleep in pram during walks, naps last anything from 15 mins to 1:40 mins (record one 3 hrs), times vary depending when wakes up in the morning and how long first nap

[cath~]

Hello and welcome

Sorry things are hard at the moment.

Could you post a couple of days so we can see what is routine is like,
Ie wake up, nap time and for how long, next nap and for how long, bedtime (when you put him down and when he's asleep)
Then we can see if a tweak might help.

Also, how does he fall asleep at nap and bedtime, independently or do you stay with him?

Could there be any teething going on at the moment (molars?) as that can cause NWs and trouble settling/not wanting to be put down.

 If he is OT that can also cause NWs soon after BT.

How is he during the day? There can be natural spikes of separation anxiety around this age when LOs really need our reassurance that parents are there for them. Does he show any signs of this during the day?

Sorry for all the qns, just trying to get the whole picture before suggesting anything

It sounds like you might have tried a form of controlled crying (CC) in the past to sleep train him?
Just so you know, BWers don't agree with CC because it breaks the trust between parent and LO.  Here are a few links about why we don't do CC here:
Kara & Alexandra's Story
Research on why 'cry it out' and 'controlled crying' is NOT recommended!
Cry it out (CIO): 10 reasons why it is not for us

If he does need some help with learning how to settle and stay asleep the there are gentler methods we can help you with, which won't harm the bond you have with him, and will be much more long-lasting.  These are explained here:
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

[Princesscrackers]

Hello cathn,

Many, many thanks for your reply and your interest in my problem!

I am really frustrated with myself for not being able to find the right way, but the thing is I try and get all the information I can, read up, talk to health visitors, friends and family - but you just get extremely contradictory advice (or none at all!). As a result I just end up trying different things, not knowing what is best for my boy, and getting all confused and clueless!

I will of course try to provide all the info you are asking for, I will post the last 2 days breakdown tomorrow. In the meantime I can provide the following:

- naps: my son hardly ever sleeps in his cot during the day, he almost always falls asleep in his pram, when I take him out for walks. I like him spending as much time outside as possible as I believe the fresh air is good for him, but I would very much prefer him to sleep in his bed during the day, I just simply don't know how to get there
At times, when he is really resisting his nap I will also give him a bottle of water to drink in his pram, as that helps him settle down and fall asleep, which, again, I don't like doing, as I'm stressed about him becoming dependent on the bottle as prop, but sometimes just give in.

Normally, once he's fallen asleep in the pram, I will go back home and put him in the garden to carry on sleeping.

- teeth: 4 in total atm. Bottom 2 came out really easily, no fuss. Top two I believe contributed to the NWs, as they emerged around the time when NW started - I tried giving him Calpol when he just wouldn't settle, but tbh I didn't see much difference. I cannot see any other potential teeth trying to come through atm, w
Hich of course doesn't mean there aren't any.

- other: the NW started more or less during the heat wave, although on the odd hot nights he would sleep through and wake up on the cooler ones, so I doubt it could be a factor
Also, around the same time his hay fever kicked in. We started giving him an antihistamine syrup for it, a drowsy one, but made no real change re his sleeping.

- separation anxiety - his attachment to me became more noticeable around his 10/11 month, but was never extreme. He would simply not want to go to other people (granny, grandpa, dad) and prefer to stay with me on some occasions. But it was never pronounced and it is even less so now.

- putting down to sleep at night - after bath, I put on his PJs and read him a book (if dad's not working, he'll be reading the book), then close down curtains and give him his milk bottle in my arms (on the breast feeding pillow). If he falls asleep, I will put him in his crib and leave, but lately I have been trying to keep him awake when I put him to bed. Whichever it is, I always tell him before putting him into the crib that i's time to sleep and I'm putting him in his bed so that he can sleep nicely all night.
If he's awake, he will not stay put, he starts getting up, wants me to pick him up and is sometimes goofing around. I stay in an armchair next to crib and keep putting him down. I try not to engage, will kiss him on the head and tell it's sleep time from time to time but nothing more. He eventually calms down and falls asleep, the whole process, including bottle takes up to 1h.

[cath~]

Hello

I am really frustrated with myself for not being able to find the right way, but the thing is I try and get all the information I can, read up, talk to health visitors, friends and family - but you just get extremely contradictory advice (or none at all!). As a result I just end up trying different things, not knowing what is best for my boy, and getting all confused and clueless!

Hugs - I know exactly what you mean. There is so much contradictory advice out there.  So pleased you have found BW now though since the research really does show the CC techniques are not good for LOs

Have you read any of the BW books?

Once you've posted a couple of days routines I'll be able to suggest if any tweak is needed.

Even though the heat and hayfever obv aren't helping the NWs it sounds like some sleep training would def help. 

From your posts it sounds like the GW method (see link in my first post) would be most appropriate and what you are doing at BT sounds exactly right for starting with this.  Have you been doing BT like this for long?  The only tweak to what you're doing now is that if he falls asleep whilst having his milk, try and rouse him slightly before you put him in his crib so he is aware you are doing this.

You might find it easiest to work on BTs first before tackling naps, or just try one nap/day in cot to start with (other still in pram).  But it's a bit up to you and how much you want to work on at once.

[Princesscrackers]

Hi again,

Here's the last 2 days:

1/AUG
- 7:30 Wakes up, water, nappy & cuddles with mummy in her bed
- 8:00 Breakfast, nappy, wash and change
- 9:00 Walk in pram to child centre for weighing/measure with friends and their babies. Doesn't go to sleep until we say bye to friends.
- 11:35 Falls asleep in pram on the way home, I leave pram in garden.
- 13:00 Wakes up, nappy and lunch
- 14:30 Swimming pool (swim 15 min)
- 15:50 Tea, bottle in pram but no sleep
- 16:30 Play in lounge with toys and mummy
- 18:15 Dinner, Skype with Granny
- 18:45 Tv Peppa Pig
- 18:55 Bath, change into PJs, book
- 19:10 bottle of milk, falls asleep, moved to bed (approx. 19:30)
- up crying after 10 mins, I go up and stay with him in chair next to crib, putting him down continuously.
Makes 2 poops, by 20:10 is asleep.
- Wakes up and cries just before 23. I go in and keep putting him down until he falls asleep again.
- Wakes up after I leave the room, repeat the above, at 23:15 he falls asleep and sleeps through.

2 AUG
- 7:45 WAkes up, nappy, water and cuddle with mummy in her bed
- 8:00 Breakfast, nappy, wash and change
- play with toys and mummy in lounge till 10:30
- 10:40 In pram for a walk. Hiccups so give small bottle of water. No sleep though.
- 11:30 I give up trying to get him to sleep in pram and go home
- 12:00 Lunch, v tired, take to crib 12:10, try put down, goofing around than dad walks in and leaves, from then LO cries
- 12:30 I get frustrated and give up and take him downstairs, put in pram with a bottle of milk and rock.
- 12:45 falls asleep in pram
- 13:45 woken up by phone, the fact that he hasn't had enough sleep is visible throughout the afternoon. He plays.
- 14:30 goes into town with mum and dad in car.
- 16:00 Tea, goes shopping with mum and dad.
- 17:40 - plays
- 18:20 - Dinner
- 18:40 - TV
- 18:50 - Bath, PJs, book with daddy,
- 19:20 Bottle with mummy, falls asleep, opens eyes when put in cot, but goes to sleep straightaway
- 20:45 - wakes up, I put him back down a couple of times and goes back to sleep. Wakes up again when I leave the room but goes back to sleep when I pat him.
- Midnight??? At a guess, wakes up, I go up and repeat the routine and fall asleep in the chair, wake up at 0:40, so no idea really how long it took.
- Sleeps through till 8am

To be fair, normally his days are a bit more structured, as we tend to go to play groups in the mornings, but there aren't any in August. It's also the latest he's ever woken up, normally he wakes up between 6-7am.

I did read the Baby Whisperer when I was pregnant, together with several other books, probably overdid it, my husband says .

I have been trying this BT routine probably for 1,5 - 2 weeks now, although when it's late and I'm really tired I have on occasions given up and taken LO into my bed (although he doesn't sleep any better with me).
I would love to be able to tackle his sleep in total, both nighttime and day naps, I'm just not sure I can handle it all at the same time.

Can you advise what I should/shouldn't be doing pls?
How would you say I should rouse him when he falls asleep on the bottle - how awake does he need to be?

Thank you!!!

AND
Just as I was starting to relax and thinking things were looking up, Lewis wakes up at 4am last night. I tried to follow the put down routine, but after 1h gave up utterly exhausted as he wasn't anywhere near settling down and brought him to my bed. It took him about half an hour to settle down and he woke up just after 7am.
:-( :-(

[cath~]

Hi there,

Looking at your postings it seems that your LO is clearly transitioning to one nap but since it is sometimes on the short side, you prob need to bring BT a bit earlier to compensate.

Eg on 2 aug since the nap was quite late, he was prob OT which might well have been why it was short.

If he wakes around 730 most days, I'd suggest trying for a nap around 12 and see how that goes for a bit.

If his nap is short, you will prob need to bring bt earlier, even as much as an hour earlier say so he doesn't get OT.

On 2 Aug he was prob OT hence the waking shortly after BT and the EW - OT can cause NWs early in the night and EWs.

With regards sleep training, if he falls asleep whilst feeding, you don't need to rouse him too much but just enough so he is aware that you are moving him to the crib.  Having said that, the goal will be to distance the milk from falling asleep so you may want to start waking him more soon and possibly introduce a BT story, for example, after milk and before you put him in crib.
Also, Once he is settling in the crib ok with you next to him then the next step will be to move further away from him but don't worry about that just yet.

Hugs - it is tough but sounds like you're doing really well and it will be really worth it once you've done it.

[Princesscrackers]

Thank you Catherine!

I'm going to try moving onto 1 nap like you're suggesting - will bring lunch forward a bit, so that he can go to sleep afterwards. Will also bring tea, dinner and BT forward a bit as well.

Do you mind if I ask a couple of questions about the GW method I'm trying to follow?

- the different steps described in the GW method (stroking, stroking lighter, withdrawing hand, standing progresively further from cot etc) - are they to be carried out throughout 1 session or are different steps to take on the consecutive nights? I feel a bit silly asking this, but I'm not at my brightest at the moment :/

- when my LO is playing up in the cot, crawling and getting up at BT - shall I put him down as soon as he gets up each time or is it ok to leave him to just stand there for a bit hoping he'll tire out and then put him down?

- for the last 2 nights when he was playing up at BT (getting up, jumping up and down, crawling in cot etc), amongst other things he started banging his head on the bars - not too hard, sort of shaking head from side to side. It's kind of worrying me - shall I intervene or ignore it?


Thank you once again for your advice and support! Just knowing I'm going in the right direction makes all the difference

[cath~]

Hello,

- the different steps described in the GW method (stroking, stroking lighter, withdrawing hand, standing progresively further from cot etc) - are they to be carried out throughout 1 session or are different steps to take on the consecutive nights?

you don't do all of these in 1 session.  The idea is that over the course of days/weeks, you gradually give less assistance to your LO as they fall asleep.  So, at the moment, you say you do this:

I stay in an armchair next to crib and keep putting him down. I try not to engage, will kiss him on the head and tell it's sleep time from time to time but nothing more. He eventually calms down and falls asleep, the whole process, including bottle takes up to 1h.

so you don't need to go through the stroking, getting lighter.. steps etc (this is for LOs who were previously falling asleep in their cot with their parent touching/stroking them).  I'd stick with what you're doing for now and when he is falling asleep more peacefully with you sitting next to him, then start to move further away from the crib (either out of the chair, or move the chair further away, depending on your LOs room and which you are most comfortable with).  Does that make sense?

- when my LO is playing up in the cot, crawling and getting up at BT - shall I put him down as soon as he gets up each time or is it ok to leave him to just stand there for a bit hoping he'll tire out and then put him down?

if he's not upset then I would leave him to it.  it's all part of him learning how to wind down and settle on his own.  If/when he gets upset, then do PD.  You'll have to judge it a bit and see what works for your LO but IIWM I'd def try leaving him a bit longer before doing PD or it might turn into a bit of a game and he will just stand up so you will put him down again IYSWIM.

- for the last 2 nights when he was playing up at BT (getting up, jumping up and down, crawling in cot etc), amongst other things he started banging his head on the bars - not too hard, sort of shaking head from side to side. It's kind of worrying me - shall I intervene or ignore it?

Do you think he was OT?  This might well be his way of trying to find a way to settle.  Since he could hurt himself at that stage I think I would do PD if he does that.

Does he have a lovey at all?  Some LOs aren't interested in them at this age (mine wasn't) but others are so it might be worth trying to introduce one now so he can learn to settle himself with it (if he wants to).  Eg, when you do PD you could put it in his hand.

HTH

[Princesscrackers]

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry for not coming back earlier but with the LO not sleeping well I find it hard to get some uninterrupted time on my own :/

I'd stick with what you're doing for now and when he is falling asleep more peacefully with you sitting next to him, then start to move further away from the crib (either out of the chair, or move the chair further away, depending on your LOs room and which you are most comfortable with).  Does that make sense?

ATM his falling asleep looks as follows: after the bottle I rouse him a bit (pick him up, try to burp him, and tell him I'm putting him to bed so that he can sleep nicely) and put him in his cot. He usually becomes fully awake then and starts getting up, talking to himself, walking around the cot, jumping up and down etc. I put him down again and again and the scenario repeats until he becomes sleepy again. He will start to get sleepy at some point and therefore will stay down, but still moving about, wriggling, sort of trying to find the best position. He still ends up getting up, but will stay down for a longer period. Eventually he just stays down, maybe talking to himself and gradually quietens down. Finally he calms down and falls asleep. The whole process takes around 60 mins.

Throughout I will either stand by the cot or bend over it or sit in the armchair next to the cot.
Am I doing it right? At what moment do you suggest I try leaving the room?

If/when he gets upset, then do PD.

Do you mean pick him up and calm him down in my arms, putting him to bed afterwards?

Does he have a lovey at all?

Sadly no He's never really shown much interest in any of the soft toys he has. I tried "pushing" one of his toys - putting it in his cot and pram, I even slept with it myself for a couple of nights thinking it would smell of me and thus be a bit more comforting but nothing First thing he did when put to bed tonight was to throw Donkey out of the cot

Regarding the transition to 1 daily nap - I've tried it and I'm not sure he's ready for it. I find it really difficult keeping him awake till lunch. The one nap he has then is not enough as it doesn''t last longer at all - 45 mins, 1 h tops. He then is absolutely exhausted during the afternoon - bumping into things, falling over and very grumpy. Even when I moved BT forward, keeping him awake was a huge challenge.

I'm very lost ATM He also keeps waking up at night (wakes up for the first time 1h after falling asleep, 2hs, 3hs, it varies), sometimes up to 3-4 times. I have managed not to give in to tiredeness and not taken him into bed with me but not sure how long I can last :/ When will I see some improvement?

[cath~]

sounds like he is OT which won't be helping the GW at all at BT and is prob causing the NWs soon after he falls asleep.

You prob won't make too much progress with the GW while he is OT.

Since he doesn't seem to be ready for 1 nap yet, I agree you should go back to two for a bit. 

Have you read this?

From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

as it says, most people do either short am nap and long pm, or long am nap and short pm.

I found it easier to do short am and long pm - if I did long am I couldn't guarantee a pm nap and then got into OT trouble..

If you can get him taking one short (say 30 min) nap and one longer one (let him sleep as long as he wants), then he shouldn't be OT at BT and you'll have more success with the GW.

What do you think?

Are you just doing GW at BT at the moment?  How are you settling him for naps?

[Princesscrackers]

Please help, I'm absolutely shattered and lost and don't know what to do!
For the last 2 nights Lewis has been waking up frequently and ended up in my bed both nights as I had no strength left Last night was especially bad, after he woke up for the 4th grime and after about 1h of trying to get him to sleep I took him to my bed around 23:15. Even in my bed he kept wriggling, getting up etc, for about another hour. He started waking up again and crying out at about 5 and was up for good at 5:45 ( I am sooo tired and frustrated and feeling like a bad mummy for not being able to provide him a proper night's sleep ((

Please tell me what to do, what am I doing wrong, how do I stop him from waking up at night and put him back to sleep. I'm desperate ((

[cath~]

Hi - I'm sorry to hear things are so tough at the moment.  Sleep deprivation really sucks

It would help if you could post what his sleep (including naps), i.e. his routine, has been like for the last couple of days.  Has he been back on two naps?  How long have they been and when?

The frequents NWs could be OT.  If so, posting his routine will help to spot this and we can suggest where/how you can help him to catch up.  Also, could you just re-cap on how he is currently settling at BT, i.e. where you are on the GW, and how you are settling him for naps too?

It is also common for there to be regressions when you are sleep-training so could be this too.  Or teething.

Sorry for all the qns and not much advice.

[Princesscrackers]

Hi Catherine,

I took him back to 2 naps/day as one nap was just not enough for him. His daily naps take place in his pram - I put him in and take him for a walk and he falls asleep. I then put the pram in the garden and he carries on sleeping. I would love it for him to take his naps in his cot, but I have no idea how to do that - any tips?

I'm currently visiting family abroad, staying at my brother's. He seems very happy here as he has lots of room to play, a nice big garden, people around and a cousin his age.
He has his own room here. I expected the trip and change of surroundings to affect his sleeping but tbh I do not see much difference with how he behaves at home.

Here are the two last days:

19 AUG
- 6:30 - WU, cuddles in bed, then I take him downstairs to play in the lounge that has a big play area with loads of different toys scattered on the floor
- 8:00 - breakfast, play in lounge
- 9:30 - tried to put to sleep in pram but no luck, so played instead
- 11:00- falls asleep in pram during walk
- 12:00 - lunch, plays with mum in garden
- 14:40 - I walk him in pram hoping he will sleep, he is sleepy but won't settle, finally gets bottle of water and falls asleep at 15:30.
-16:35 - I wake him up and give him tea. I take him grocery shopping with me and he is very clingy and grumpy throughout the evening, basically I end up carrying him, as he won't go in the shopping trolley which he normally likes.
- 18:30 - dinner. Afterwards I give him a bath, then take him to his bedroom, take him on my lap and read him a story, and then give a bottle of milk. Although tired and sleepy throughout the afternoon, he is wide awake now and plays up when put to bed. He jumps up and down, shrieks, crawls around in cot. Laughs and tries playing peekaboo with me. It takes 90 mins for him to settle down and fall asleep. I stay in armchair next to cot throughout it, putting him down time after time. I tend not to talk to him much or engage with him much. He does a poop in the meantime so I change nappy next to cot.
- He wakes up crying sometime in the night, no idea what time, I try to comfort him in the cot, he grabs my hand and holds it very tight to sleep. As soon as I try easing the hand out, he cries again.. This goes on a couple of times. I finally take him out of the cot and cradle to sleep in my arms, but he cries again as soon as put back into crib. I then give up and take him into bed with me.
*Every time this happens, when he holds my hand tightly, it basically ends that way, with me taking him in my bed as I cannot ease my hand out without waking him up.

When he sleeps with me, he gladly cuddles up, but after a short sleep he starts to stir and move about, get up, shout out, wriggle etc - I believe he does it all in his sleep.
- 5:50 WU


20 AUG
- 5:50 - WU, cuddles in bed, plays in lounge
- 8:00 - breakfast, little play in lounge
- 8:50 - sleeps in buggy, wakes up shortly after half an hour but rocked back to sleep.
- 10:30 - WU, little play and walk in the pram, he also gets a snack
- 12:00- lunch, plays in garden with family
- around 13:00 gets very sleepy, put him in pram and try to rock him to sleep but he doesn't go to sleep.
I then take him for a walk in the pram, he falls asleep at 15:00, but minutes later a loud street noise wakes him up all scared. He wouldn't go back to sleep even when I wore him in a sling after that.
- 16:00 - tea.
Plays in lounge with toys with me, granny and little cousin.
Around 5 goes out to do a bit of walking with my help (he is just about to walk on his own) for about 30 mins, then plays a bit more while I make dinner.
- 18:00 - dinner and a bit of In The Night Garden.
- 18:20 - bath, story and milk.
He falls asleep on the bottle and only just about wakes up to be put in crib. Falls asleep immediately (around 7pm).
- 19:15 - wakes up crying. I go in to see him, he's not standing up, he is lying down in crib crying. I try soothing him to no avail. He gets up crying. I try putting him down several times but he gets very miserable. I end up picking him up in my arms and calming him down. He is sleepy but awake when I put him in crib. Falls asleep easily.
- 19:25 - cries again. I put him back in crib, this time he doesn't protest and falls asleep.
- wakes up around midnight, I had been so sound asleep I am now barely conscious and I take him to bed with me, changing a nappy that is very heavy. He doesn't settle for around 2 hours, ie wriggles and crawls and turns in his sleep.
WU @ 6:15

What do you think? I am so frustrated as the GW that I have been doing for weeks now seems to bring no results - he takes ages to fall asleep (on average 1h, but even up to 90 mins) and it doesn't help at all in eliminating the NWs nor does it help with putting him back to sleep when he wakes up

I'm a translator and used to work from home, I used to be able to work in the evenings when he was asleep, but now it's impossible. I also do not see how we could possibly have another baby in this situation

Please help.

[cath~]

Hello,

Have you been trying for long-am & short-pm nap or the other way round?  Or do you not have a particular choice ATM?
I think it would help if you pick one for a bit and stick with it as it would probably help him to regulate his sleep.  I think most people find short am nap & long pm easiest to aim for since with long am the risk is you don't get a pm nap at all (but a long A time til BT) or the pm CN is v late and so LO is UT at BT and BT is late. 

If you went for short am nap & long pm nap, say, then I'd suggest trying for a nap around 10 or 10.30 in the morning (or earlier) but prob no later.  I'd suggest capping this nap at 45 mins max and see how it goes.  You may need to do shorter to ensure pm nap isn't too late but will have to see.

Then you could try for a pm nap around 2pm say.  If he doesn't seem tired at 2pm then of course do later, but the next day maybe try capping the am nap a little more so he is tired for a pm nap around 2pm (or earlier).  Part of your BT troubles on 19th might be because he wasnt' quite tired enough after only having got up from his nap at 16.35.

Does that make sense?

WRT teaching him to settle for his naps, perhaps try for a few days the above ideas keeping with the pram so you can get a sense of what timings/am nap length works and when he is tired.  Then, when you have a better idea, I'd suggesting tackling the pm nap first in his cot (since you will eventually be dropping the am one).  I'd settle him in the same way you do at BT ATM and then apply GW in the same way.

On days where it goes a bit pear-shaped with naps (e.g. 20th) and he is OT then I'd advise bringing BT a lot earlier to  prevent those NWs soon after BT.  Eg on 20th I would have been tempted to go for BT around 17.30 or 18.00 but no later or day (and A-time to BT) is way too long.

HTH

[Princesscrackers]

Thank you, Catherine!

I will try introducing the adjustments you've suggested, they do make sense.