Weaning for 20 month-old - Please help!

[Ruansmom]

Hello all! RUAN, my 20 months old, has been exclusively breast fed (solids started at close to 6 months). I had tried the bottle (with expressed bm) at 5 months, but he rejected it. I was keen to breast feed till 12 months, so I continued....but have not been able to wean him off since. My question is - how do i achieve the wean off at this stage?

At 1 year tried to move him to sippy cup for morning feed, he completely rejected it. Tried for 2 weeks at a stretch, it didn't work, since then have been trying on and off, without much success. Hence am also concerned that weaning him from breastfeeding will mean putting a stop tio his milk intake completely since I have not been able to move him to sippy cup or bottle.

He still wakes up 3-4 times a night, and settles down only after a breast feed. My next question is - are his night wakings linked to the fact that he is still on bm and how do I stop him from these multiple wakings?

A short description of his bedtime routine - he used to have a 30-45 set bedtime routine that included change of clothes, story-telling and some wind down play. I used to give him his night feed soon after the routine, and within 5-10 minutes of the feed, he used to sleep on his own (without patting, singing etc). We co-sleep. Now, he has no patience for the routine, refuses to go on the bed till he is drop-dead sleepy. And when he does get on the bed, takes a quick feed, and sleeps within 5-10 minutes of the feed (he does not sleep while feeding). He sleeps for around 10 hrs on average, with 3-4 wakings for feed.

A short description of his daytime routine - wake up around 7 am, take a breast feed. Has breakfast around 8 am....is often hungry within an hour of taking breakfast and takes some fruits (with difficulty). Takes his bath and then has playtime (at home or we have a few playdates during the week)...has his lunch at 12 pm, and sleeps around 1 (within 6 hrs of waking up in the morning). His mid-day nap lasts around 2 hrs (with 1-2 wakings, not for feed but needs to be patted back to sleep). He has a fruit snack after waking up, and then dinner around 7 after which he goes to bed around 9.

Hope I've been able to give an adequate background. I'm a great fan of the BW methodology and would be grateful for your help!

[Buttonbobs]

Hi and welcome. I'm going to move your question to toddler sleep as I think you'll get more help there.

In the meantime, could you post a typical day in an EAS format, like you see here:

WU: 7am
Eat: bf -7.am
Breakfast: 8am
Snack:
Lunch:
Nap: 12-2
Snack: ?
Dinner:
Bf
Bed time

We can then take a closer look for you xx

[*Ali*]

Do you actually want to stop feeding him in the day or just the night? Many people wean at night but continue in the day. It's up to you. I dare say he is waking at night because he is so used to being fed at each NW but that isn't to say his wakings are caused by the breast milk itself, just the habit. To wean the night feeds you need to establish a new way for him to relax and fall back to sleep at night rather than have him looking for a feed every time he wakes.
Here is a FAQ on weaning.
Weaning
Have a look and see which approach you think would be most suitable for you.
Am I right in thinking he is just having a BF at morning WU and BT during the day and then 3-4 NFs?

When he goes to sleep at BT is he in the room and bed by himself or are you in there with him? Are you happy to continue co sleeping or do you intend to move him to his own bed/room?

Looking at his EASY I wonder if he needs an earlier BT. I imagine he is quite OT with all the wakings during his night and nap and his day is very long. How early do you think he would go to sleep for BT?

[Ruansmom]

Thanks ladies for writing back!!

Here is a description of his schedule :

WU : 7 am
Eat : bf : 7 am
Eat : Breakfast : 8 am
Activity : 830 am - 930 am
Eat : Snack : 930 am ( takes place along with activity)
Activity : 1030 - 12 pm ( including bath time)
Eat : Lunch : 12 pm
Nap : 1 - 2.30 pm
Eat : Snack : 3pm (takes place along with activity)
Activity : 4pm - 645 pm
Eat : Dinner : 645 pm
Activity : 745 - 9 pm
Eat : bf at 845 pm
Sleep : 9 pm

3-4 NWs at night, settle back with BFs.

Note : His meals are unfortunately linked to his watching nursery rhymes on the ipad. This started many months ago due to his being a fussy eater.

Specific responses to Ali's queries :
- He takes BFs in the morning at WU, just before his mid-day nap and before BT. Other than the NWs
- I am in the room with him when going down for nap and at BT.
- Am happy for us to co-sleep for a while...would be keen for him to move to his own room/bed when he is 2 plus.
- He doesnt go to bed till he is absolutely sleepy. Jumps out and runs right back to his play area. So, i have lost the bedtime routine i used to have earlier. As a result, am not sure how it would be possible to advance his bedtime.

Will read the link shared by Ali and revert on any further queries. Thanks again!

[*Ali*]

So, sorry, are you looking to wean completely or just at night? If just at night I would just tell him boobies need to sleep at night and so there won't be any more milk after bedtime until morning. He won't like it and will protest but if you are consistent with resettling him without the milk then he should stop waking and asking for it. This is what I did with my boys at 12mo and 15mo. Your LO is that bit older so should understand even more.

I would work on getting out of the room before he falls asleep. You can use gradual withdrawal perhaps and get closer to the door until you are outside. That will help him learn to self soothe without looking for you.

[jessmum46]

Just to reassure you if you are looking to wean completely then at 20 months not really taking any milk isn't a big issue.  DD hasn't ever been a big milk drinker since we stopped bf at 12 months but will have milk on cereal and in sauces, then gets calcium from other sources.  So if you're looking to stop altogether then in the day you could just take an approach of not offering - or offering an alternative (e.g. milk in straw cup) but not worrying too much if it isn't taken.

I think his routine could probably do with a bit of adjusting too but will be back later if the others haven't jumped in x

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there again, I think the day looks very long for such a short nap. Are you able to get him to bed earlier, say 7.30/8pm? Those NWs could be caused at least in part by over tiredness. Many LOs at this age are getting a nap of 2hours and would be having no more than a 13 hour day including the nap and getting 11 hours sleep at night.

Do you wake him from the nap at 1.5 hours? If so, perhaps let him sleep longer at lunchtime and then try to reintroduce a calm night BT routine after dinner. You might find it easier if dinner could be a little earlier - say 6/6.15 and then do bath after that with the idea you'll be settling him into bed at around 7.30. I know you mention he's up and playing and not able to go to bed earlier, this could be because of OT. What do you think?

[Ruansmom]

Hello ladies, thanks again for writing back!

Some more details and associated questions are :
- I would like to wean him off completely now (both at night and during the day). I have tried milk in a sippy cup for many weeks for the morning feed. He doesnt take more than a sip or two. I have already substituted his mid-meal hunger through snacks/fruits. He now has bf in the morning after waking up, before his mid-day nap, before bedtime and during NWs. He doesnt go to sleep till the breast feed has taken place, there is a strong association between the two now. How do I break that? And how do I make him take milk from a sippy cup? Should i think of trying the bottle? Although I cant see him accepting that either. Am keen that he learns to drink milk - dont want him to drop off the milk drinking habit due to weaning.

- I agree that with a long day/short nap, he may be over tired at night.....but even until a few months ago, when he had a proper nap schedule and went to bed at 730/8 pm, he used to wake up in the night as often. The NWs have not increased due to his longer day. Having said that, am keen to re-introduce a bedtime routine as that would make him go to bed earlier and calmer...so, the question is - how do i do that when he just wouldnt get into bed till he is absolutely sleepy - and then take a bf and nod off !! To be able to settle him down during a NW without a bf - what steps do i take to be able to settle him back?

Thanks again...look forward to hearing from you!

[jessmum46]

In terms of milk, honestly it doesn't matter if he doesn't drink it.  He doesn't need it at this age in the same way as a less than one year old does.  Its main use is as a source of calcium which you can easily get from other sources.  I honestly would just offer a sippy in place of the bf and if he doesn't drink it, don't worry.  You can also offer water if you think he's thirsty - other than calcium that's the main reason for milk now - as a drink.  My experience was that it was only once I stopped bf completely that LO would take an oz or two of milk in another way but she's happy with water, juice etc and gets her calcium from dairy and green veg etc.  I wouldn't introduce a bottle at this age - stick with the sippy or a straw cup.

[Buttonbobs]

In order to settle him at BT and night time without bf you will need to use a sleep training method called gradual withdrawal (GW).
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
You'll need to start by moving that bf further away from the sleep at BT (or as Katherine has pointed out, dropping it which is fine at this age). Then start by using calming mantra words like "it's ok, it's just sleepy time" or something similar that you can repeat over a few times if he needs calming. You'll start off by lying him in the cot awake and staying close by. Perhaps even with some contact - a hand on his chest or similar - and then when he begins to be able to self settle with you there you start putting him down and moving slightly further away. Eventually you'll get to the doorway and be able to reassure him just with your voice.

This will be easier if the sleep routine is better for him. I really think you need to bring BT earlier. When did you last try an earlier BT? Do you let him sleep as long as he wants at lunchtime?

[Ruansmom]

Hello ladies, really sorry about being so late in writing back. Ruan was unwell and I was completely caught up with that.

I want to say that my foremost concern is not being able to wean him from bf. Thats my top priority for the timebeing. I would like to wean him completely - day and night feedings. I have tried milk in a sippy cup - he just would not take it! The corelation between bf and sleeping is very strong. So, the second question is - how do i break that?

On NWs - I will try the gradual withdrawal starting now and get back on how it goes. But am guessing that weaning will lead to fewer NWs. If am wrong on that, I will focus on how to make the night more restful. But please suggest how I should wean him completely. Am desperate to do that !

Thanks once again.....look forward to hearing from you.

[*Ali*]

Did you read the Weaning FAQ I linked in reply #3 of this thread? You can use any of those approaches listed under the Active Weaning heading. Does one sound more palatable to you than the others?

Yes if you wean the NFs (along with the day feeds in your case) you should get less NWs as long as you are teaching him to self settle and not just replacing one prop (feeding) with another such as rubbing his back, rocking etc. once you complete the GW and he is an independent sleeper he should wake less at night.

The only way to break the bf and sleep association is to stop feeding him immediately before sleep. You can either move the feeds earlier in A times or just stop them completely and offer an alternative. Since he isn't making the choice to wean himself there probably will be upset but that is inevitable and OK as long as you are there to help him through it.

I wouldn't worry about him not taking milk now. He can get all he needs from food at this age and some babies don't take milk from other sources until they are fully weaned and realise it is the only choice now.

[Ruansmom]

Hi Ali...I read the link on weaning. I have used active weaning in the last 6 months, where I substituted the be between breakfast & lunch and the one between lunch & dinner with snacks. Went back and forth a bit, but weaning out of those 2 be was successful a month after he turned one. Now, the bf left are the ones before the afternoon nap and BT due to associations with sleep. (Other than the NW and the WU one). Am not too worried about the WU one, can do an early breakfast and try to eliminate that. Am unable to get him to sleep without a feed. He refuses to settle down. I worry that he is hungry and offer the bf, as all attempts to offer milk in a sippy cup have failed. He takes a sip or two, and throws it away. So, how do I practically get him to take milk so he doesn't feel the need for bf? I feel I can't rely on helping him settle without a bf as he may actually be hungry and needs to fill his tummy before going down.

[jessmum46]

I know it's hard but you have to think that he is not a little baby now, if he is eating a good diet plus snacks he is not hungry.  He is just used to being fed before sleep.  It's a worry all of us have at times, but it's one you need to put aside now at this age if you're going to break the feed to sleep habit.  This is all said with a big hug, I know it's really hard If it really worries you give him some porridge or something half an hour before a sleep is due.  But his protesting and fussing if you try to settle him without a bf is honestly unlikely to be hunger now - it's habit.  I would prepare yourself for a few tough days, but if you are consistent and don't give in he will sleep, eventually.  He can't stay awake forever!  Yes he will cry, scream, throw a tantrum, possibly skip naps or take four hours to settle at bedtime.  But it is not your job to PUT him to sleep - your job is to allow him the environment and opportunity, then stay with him to reassure him as he works out how to go to sleep for himself.  That part is his job .

[*Ali*]

You can't make him drink milk. Don't even try. Maybe offer a yogurt or something if you are worried he is hungry but if he chooses not to eat it he obviously isn't hungry. As pp says it is just habit. I would speak with him about the fact that he will no longer be getting milk from mummy's boobies so he knows what to expect.