Author Topic: Nipple shields use  (Read 3102 times)

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Offline Mariellamom

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Nipple shields use
« on: August 27, 2014, 03:01:40 am »
Hello to all!
I am puzzled. My girl is 3,5 weeks old. We've been using the nipple shields for a week and a half and I am afraid that the longer I go the harder it will be to breastfeed her normally.
I still have sore nipples and her latch is not proper most of the times. I think it is due to her small mouth. ( only yesterday I noticed she opened it wider for the first time since birth ). I consulted three lactation specialists and at least 5 nurses checked if I do everything correctly. No issues but still the nipple comes out like a lipstick. It is so frustrating.
One lactation specialist suspected a tongue tie. But the doctor said all is ok with that  ( I still want to get a second opinion).
I really want to get onto some sort if schedule since our life is messed up totally now. She is demanding and wouldn't go to sleep unless I feed her. Otherwise she starts screaming. Last two days we are trying to feed her every three hours. Also from time to time she has difficulties with passing gas and we end up rocking her until she calms down in the middle of the night. I think the gas can also be caused by using the nipple shields and her improper latch.
I am frustrated and don't know what to do. I have been trying to read the book Baby Whisperer as much as I can in the last 24 hours ( just found out about the EASY approach and just bought the book). At this point I am giving up on my sleep to read at least something that would help us not to lose time and to fix what we've already messed up.
Thank you for your help in advance!
Olha

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Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 03:11:43 am »
Hi there...I know nothing about nipple shields so hopefully someone with experience can chime in but I just wanted to say that since the BW books were written a lot more is know about bf and I feel that this info might have been updated had Tracy lived. The thing is not all bf babies can do a 3 hour routine and for one so young it might not be possible..I would focus on following the pattern of EAS and just work on trying to separate the E and S a bit so she becomes less reliant on feeding to sleep, but it is totally normal for a newborn to feed more frequently.
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Offline Mariellamom

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 06:57:36 am »
Thank you! Good to know! I was trying to stretch her up to 3 hours but it just doesn't work every time. The only way to stretch would be to let her cry which is not an option I understand.
Also after each feeding time she falls asleep and might have a good nap after that. But if I try to wake her up to have an A time she will have it for 5 min. Then I change her diper, swaddle her and she starts screaming. Then we have to rock, shush for 15-20 min and still she won't sleep longer.
Could a 3,5 week old be just too young to fall asleep after an A time? Or we just 'spoiled' her already?
Thank you
Olha

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Offline Lotusblossom02

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 08:29:40 am »
Re: nipple shield
If you have sore nipples and ESPECIALLY if you have the tube of lipstick look going on, she almost assuredly has a tongue tie.
Unfortunately, most lactation consultants at hospitals are told per many hospital policies to downplay tongue ties. Find a private lactation consultant, one preferably who is a le Leches league leader.
With doctors, unless you have a rare pediatrician, again, many do not believe in the significance of tongue ties and many believe in the "wait and see approach". In other words, they would rather wait to see if the child develops speech problems later in life to correct.

Tongue ties, especially posterior tongue ties, are woefully under diagnosed.

Start with a local LLLL. I would bet money your LO has a tie. You get the lipstick nipple because instead of her tongue cupping your breast the way a normal child would do it and creating the wave motion, the only way she can do it with a tie is to press your nipple on to the upper palate - which causes soreness/pain and that classic lipstick tube look.

As far as the sleeping, it's common around growth spurts for them to be extra clingy. They are gaining new capabilities and don't quite know how to cope yet, so they need the extra comfort.

There is no such thing as spoiling an infant under 6 months =).

As for all this tongue tie stuff, I am just finishing all this up with my little one and it's exactly as you described - up to lactation consultants not finding it and his pediatrician saying "it's not a big deal".

We went to a dentist who lasered the tie - next to no bleeding and much faster dealing time.

Good luck!

Offline eva026

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 08:56:35 am »
We used nipple shields the whole time BFing and it was fine. There was an article someone posed a while back about how the new nipple shields don't actually cause supply to go down or any of the other problems once thought. Just make sure she opens her mouth wide and takes in the entire nipple, just like she would be feeding without the shield. It makes it easier if you decide to get rid of the shield at a later stage. I think I weaned it at 5mo then she got teeth and started biting, so I put them back on and we continued Bfing with them till almost 1yo.

No experience with tongue-tie,but I'd get a second option from an expert too.

Above all be gentle to yourself, you are doing great and she is still so little. DO whatever gets you both through the day. Any problems with EASY can be fixed later. If you manage a nappy change after a feed to separate E from S then great. If not then that's ok too, you can work on it when she's a bit older. I had to rock DD to sleep or let her sleep in my arms for the first months. When we were both ready we started sh-patting and sleep training at around 4-5mo. 





Offline Mariellamom

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2014, 22:47:48 pm »
Thabk you ladies!
You all are such a great support for me!
It's my first time when I use forums of any kind and didn't realize how helpful and encouraging this could be.
We are going to get the second opinion next week about a tongue tie. It was actually a lactation specialist who saw the problem and was 90% sure it was a tongue tie. Will see what the other doctor tells us.
Regarding the nipple shields Eva, did you have pain when using them?
It's been two weeks and I still have sore nipples. Of course the pain is not as strong as without them. But most of the times I still feel it and was thinking if it was normal. But if there is still a 'lipstick shape' from her latch,  I think the pain will be there anyways.
Regarding the EASY approach  I am a little bit confused. I am reading the BW book and can't believe how easy Tracey describes the situations when babies sleep through the night (4-5 hours) and fall asleep on their own from week one and by week three they are sleeping all night without feedings. Are those ideal situations?
In our case as much as I would like to have her on EASY, I understand it is way too difficult. ( she tries to pass gas almost after every second feed right when I swaddle her and try to gently transfer her to the crib). I can actually hear the sound of gas coming out after which she calms down, falls asleep in my arms and then continues in her crib. Still most of her 40-50 min sleep she would bring her legs to her body probably to release her gas.  Because of this it is difficult to separate the E and S.
I am also thinking that the nipples shields might cause more gas maybe ?

Olha

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Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2014, 00:49:32 am »
Tbh I have not read the books in quite some time, but for a ebf baby sttn without a feed is a very unusual occurence that young as bm.is very easily digested and with such small tummies they need the feeds. I think a lot depends on baby's temperment as well, with regard to settling by themselves. Only one of my three actually was able to sometimes self settle by a very young age and it all went to pot at the 4 month growth spurt anyways! 
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Offline eva026

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2014, 06:50:29 am »
I still had pain with the shields but it was the normal kind of pain before your nipples toughen up. I'm not sure if that is what you mean? 
The shields should not be causing gas if she is taking the whole shaft in her mouth and not just sucking the end. Latching as if the shield was not there. It may be a problem to get her to do that if she has a tounge tie though. You can also try a smaller size, I have large breasts so I had a pretty big one at the start and it turned out she did much better when I went a size down.
DD was a bit gassey too and it helped when I kept her upright and burped her really well.
DH looked up different methods online and found an odd one that worked every time, Leaning her forward and moving her torso side to side, instead of patting her back.

Don't worry too much about the EASY at this point. If you can get her to sleep 40-50min in a crib that's a great start:)) DD was sleeping ON me for the first months.





Offline *Ali*

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2014, 07:32:27 am »
Certainly not the norm for a Breastfed baby to be sleeping through the night without a feed at a few weeks old. Check out our FAQ and you will see that over half the babies were 6mo+ before sttn. Night Feeds and the Breast Fed Baby

I think it would get a second opinion about the tongue tie if the LC saw he had one and you are obviously experiencing feeding difficulties.

I wouldn't worry about A time at this age. If LO just wakes to eat and have a nappy change that is really normal for the first 6-8wks even. You can start to have A time once LO is staying awake after feeds naturally.

I used nipple shields for a few weeks with DS1 when my nipples were sore and we easily stopped using them when they had recovered.
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Offline katiebee18

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 20:34:19 pm »
I used a nipple shield with both of my boys and was able to get off of it eventually with both. I rmember that I felt just like you did at that time. It seems like it's always goign to be needed but with time it will come.

DS#1 was 8.5 weeks and DS #2 was 11 weeks when I got off.

Both had lip and tongue ties.

DS#1 was diagnosed at the hospital with a tongue tie but I didn't know enough about it and shrugged it off. I went to LLL and they gave me some pediatric dentists who use a laser procedure to fix it. Sure enough I went for an evaluation and it was a class 4 tongue tie (worst it could be) and class 3 lip tie so no wonder nursing killed and we couldn't get by without the shield! I had the procedure done at 6 weeks and 2 weeks later once healed, we got off the shield

DS#2 I took in at 6 days old and sure enough another lip and tongue tie. Class 4 lip tie and class 1-2 tongue. I had them both corrected that day. I had to move when he was 2.5 weeks old and think the tongue tie may have reattached some and that is why it took a little longer for us to get off the shield. At 11 weeks we didn't need it anymore.

Hang in there! Go to LLL, get a ped dentist eval. If they don't find a tie then great! Just work on trying to nurse without the shield here and there and eventually your LO will probably go for it.

You will get sore all over again when you get off the shield. That is the only downside, but after a week or 2 you really shouldn't have pain at all.

GL and let me know if you have other questions!





Offline Mariellamom

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2014, 10:54:08 am »
Thank you all for your words. It is encouraging to read that someone had similar experience.
So three days ago we fixed her tongue tie issue. Every day we are stretching the wound until the next check up ( poor girl:((
I latched her on at the doctors office but there was almost no difference. I could just stand the burning sensation because my nipples probably are healed and I can stand more pain now. ( I have a high pain tolerance generally).
The doc says that an improvement in breastfeeding might come in a few weeks. Some of you I see had it improved later. I hope this will be the case for us also!
My nipples still come out like a lipstick ;(
I contacted out LLC. It was the third one already. She said over the phone that we are trying to fix 'the wrong problem- the baby'. She says that we shouldn't have done the tie tongue procedure since it will not help anything. She is sure I have just too sensitive nipples and I have to decide if I want to breastfeed with the niple shields all the time or not to use them and to breastfeed in pain taking pain relievers. ( she herself breastfed her baby for two years in constant pain due to her nipples' sensitivity ).
I was discouraged by such 'advice' of course.
I can't agree with her totally because of the 'lipstick shape' of my nipples and because I hear the galping sounds while she is eating which is the sign if a tie tongue as I understand. Plus my nipples are white after the feeding which I heard the sign that she is not latching on correctly either. 
LLC#4 said that if the baby gains weight and feels good after the feed then she is properly latched on.... LLC #2 said that there sgould be no pain if the latch is correctly.
Ohhhhh.
So confusing.
For now I decided to use the shields and from time to time to take them off and see if the latch will be improved. 
I wonder if I will cause more damage to my nipples if they are shaped like a lipstick after 2-3 min of breastfeeding? Does anyone had such experience maybe?
If I knew I could toughen them by still feeding her from time to time, I would be more confident in not using the shields.
Thinking to contact LLC # 4. I heard she was really good. But it is kind of crazy  to use three of them already without any improvement.
Maybe I should just wait a couple of weeks and see if her latch will be different?
Thank you for advice ladies!
Olha

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Offline zeri

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2014, 12:31:11 pm »
Hello, just a story of encouragement for you! I had a similar problem with DD - no tongue tie, but she couldn't latch properly for the first ...maybe three? months. She wasn't a tiny baby (7lbs) but she is petite, and though she would latch initially, she would slip off the latch because her mouth was just too small. Lactation consultants would check the latch and it would be fine, then a few minutes later... whoops. I used the shields and gradually weaned her off them, and we BF successfully to 13 months.
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Offline eva026

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2014, 18:27:36 pm »
Wow, no wonder you are confused. What they say doesn't make sense.

I contacted out LLC. It was the third one already. She said over the phone that we are trying to fix 'the wrong problem- the baby'. She says that we shouldn't have done the tie tongue procedure since it will not help anything. She is sure I have just too sensitive nipples and I have to decide if I want to breastfeed with the niple shields all the time or not to use them and to breastfeed in pain taking pain relievers. ( she herself breastfed her baby for two years in constant pain due to her nipples' sensitivity ).

How on earth is a baby supposed to latch on correctly if it has a tounge tie?? It's physically impossible. Nipples are sensitive at the start but they toughen up with use. BFing is not supposed to give you constant pain...2 years of taking pain killers?? honestly...   

LLC#4 said that if the baby gains weight and feels good after the feed then she is properly latched on....

Ok but how about your pain? Surely that's not the way it's supposed to be?

LLC #2 said that there sgould be no pain if the latch is correctly.

Well yes and no... when you start your nipples need time to toughen up. Any body part will hurt if you keep rubbing it in the same place over and over 12 times a day! With me it took 2-3 weeks. then we started using the shield and again 2-3 week when we weaned the sheild.

For now I decided to use the shields and from time to time to take them off and see if the latch will be improved.
I think that's a wise decision. When LO is fully healed tackle the latch and weaning the shields.

I have no experience with tounge tie but surely if baby has learned to latch on "wrong", they have to re-learn how to do it when the tie is fixed?
I'm sure someone will be along with some BTDT experience.

For now do whatever causes you least pain and gets milk into LO. You are doing great:)





Offline Mariellamom

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2014, 19:12:54 pm »
Thank you!
I was also thinking about that if you use any body parts for too long it should hurt. It's a common sense. And taking pain relievers is such a crazy idea. Why would I want my child to get medications with my milk? Then it is better to use formula. Also to be in a pain is not an option. I was afraid to hold my DD thinking she will smell the milk and will want to eat yet again and cause the pain. And felt so guilty about that of course. Never want that experience back. Poor DD felt it of course and was crying a lot. Once I started using the shields and had less pain she became mostly a happy child!
With all these problems I am not even sure now that I can re learn my DD how to latch properly after she is healed.  I was so confident when she was born but not anymore.
Your stories and experiences are helping to keep going and looking up!
Olha

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Offline *Ali*

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Re: Nipple shields use
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2014, 20:22:59 pm »
Hugs. What an ordeal. Well done for pushing through it no continuing to BF.

I'm no expert and I cannot say which LC is correct but I do think it is a little hasty to say you will always have the pain. I hope it does lessen shortly.

Many mamas feed successfully for a long time with nipple shields so it really isn't the end of the world if you have to use them for the duration of your BF relationship.
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