12 weeks old and we're a mess here!

[Baileysmom31112]

Hi there,

I need some guidance on using EASY with my 12 week old. Please help us!! I just went back to work a few days ago and my mom is generously watching him during the day. We've tracked the last two days and I'm not sure what to change or tweak about his schedule. Things to know: he does have reflux that is mostly under control however, I need to hold him upright for 20 min after he eats before I can lay him down; and so far, I always have to either rock/pat him asleep or nurse him to sleep. If we lay him down, he will lay quietly playing until he gets tired and then he will get really upset and when he does start crying he won't stop until he's picked up and comforted - he also gulps in a ton of air when he cries so then when you lay him back down his reflux is exacerbated...he is not a fan of the pacifier, and 4 out of 5 times he becomes hysterical in his car seat....on to our schedule...

First, our early mornings have been messy. He tends to cry in the early morning and I try to keep him "asleep" until at least 6-7am, which means I sometimes end up nursing him side-lying on and off from 5-7am...

DAY 1
WU: 7:50
E: 8
S: 9:20 (for 60 min then he cried and my mom took 10 min to resettle him)
A: 11:20
E: 12:10
S: 1pm (woke after 60 min crying, seemed hungry)
E: 2pm
S: 3pm (restless for the first 30 min, and then he slept deeply for another hour)
A: 4:30pm
E: 5:20pm
E: 6pm (my parents brought him to my house at 6 and he looked exhausted, he fell asleep while nursing)
S: 6:05pm
A: 6:50pm
E: 8pm
S: 8:30pm

I tried a dreamfeed at 11:30pm and then he had the following NWs: 1:30 (finally fed him at 2am), 3:30 (PU/PD), 5:10 (fed him), 6:20 (fussed and I finally gave him the boob but by 6:40 we mutually decided the night was over!)   

DAY 2
WU: 6:40 (not hungry - see early NWs above for E)
E: 8
S: 8:20 (45 min nap, woke happy)
A: 9:05
S: 10 (1 hr nap)
E: 11:45
S: 12:50 (1 hr 55 m nap)
A: 2:45pm
E 3pm
S: 4pm (15 m nap, woke up when he heard my voice and his older brother's voice)
E: 5pm
S: 5:05 (fell asleep, but woke 20 min later)
A: 5:30
S: 10PM!!! (We tried to put him down earlier but he kept waking up almost as soon as we put him down)

NWs: 12:30, 2:30, 4, 5:30, 6:20 

As you can imagine, I'm exhausted and confused! We can't get our mornings to start when I want them to and we can't get our bedtimes to work they want on them too.

In addition, the early evening is especially tough because, I have to pick him and his 2.5yr old brother, get them home (it's a very quick drive (5 min tops but baby doesn't sleep in a car seat anyway!)... and then bath, dinner and bedtime for the 2.5 yr old take place between 4-7pm, so trying to coordinate baby's late afternoon nap and bedtime is really hard to juggle at the same time.

Last, the 12 week old has become really alert and smiley in the last week which is great but also probably creating some of the trouble. Half the time when you lay him down he is looking all over the place - even if it's pitch dark and he also keeps doing these giant ab crunches so he looks like a swaddled fish flopping around. He has found his hands and gnaws on them a lot but that seems to  him off instead of sooth him and he is very strong and big - sometimes he gets his arms up higher in the swaddle to his mouth and he calms down and other times he does that and then gets upset...

Sorry for such a long post. Any suggestions about any of this would be greatly appreciated!!!

[Baileysmom31112]

Today went like this
A/E 7:20
S 9
A 9:40
E 10
S 11
A 1pm
E 1:30
S 2:25 (woke 20 min when he pooped)
A 2:45
S 3pm
A 4:05 (woke up to get him home)
E 4:35pm
E 5:20pm
S 5:35pm (woke 20 min later maybe because of noise his brother was making
A 5:55pm
E 7pm
S 7:10
A 7:30pm (when my phone rang....DH tried resettling him for 30 min unsuccessfully)
BT: 9pm (we tried periodically from 8pm on and he finally gave in at 9)

NW: 11:45pm - DH resettled him in about 15 min
NW: 1:45am - I nursed him
NW: 4:35am - I nursed him
NW: 5:30 - I let tried to sooth him and he fussed for 40 min before I gave in and put him on the boob in bed)
E: 7:30 - he started crying again and I nursed him as if it was a wake up feed but he didn't want to wake up
WU: 7:40 - with some help from mama!

[jessmum46]

So sorry we missed your post, how are things now?

One thing I notice is that most of your A times are a touch on the long side, 1h20-30 would be about right for 3 month olds and you are only just getting to that age now.  Sometimes LOs will crash and do a good nap off a too-long A time but over the course of a day tiredness can definitely accumulate.

The frequent night wakings make me wonder if his reflux is as well-controlled as you think...I would say if you still need to hold him upright after feeds then perhaps not?  He may want to nurse so frequently to comfort himself from the acid burn, but then it's a vicious cycle as an over-full tummy exacerbates the reflux.  Is he medicated? 

In terms of practicalities with two of them (been there and doing it!), do you have a sling/wrap?  It was a lifesaver for me in the evenings as I could prepare DDs tea and get her bath ready etc whilst DS could snooze if he wanted to, or at least was being held if fussy.

Something which really helped us with DS in the evenings was putting him down for bedtime at the same time every day.  I think it helped set his body clock and the expectation for sleep and made bedtimes fairly easy from quite early on.  He did not suffer with reflux though and that can make any sort of routine trickier to establish.

Have you taken a look over at our reflux board?

[Baileysmom31112]

Hi there,
Sorry for the long silence. We were starting to figure things out, but I'm still feeling generally lost. Any tips and advice are greatly appreciated. Micah is now almost 16 weeks old. His reflux seems almost completely gone. I know we are potentially the whole four month growth spurt, wonder week, etc. He is generally happy BUT he spends most of the day trying to chew his hands off (teething?!) and his nights are still not great. His naps have gotten pretty wonky, though we've started to stretch out his A time which is making a difference. Our biggest problem is that our wake up and BT are all over the place due to so many nightwakings. I'm exhausted, so I've resorted to various APOP tactics like nursing to sleep and bringing him into bed in the early morning which generally gets him back to sleep but I'd really like to iron out a better schedule! Oh, I also must note that during the week, he is with my mother during the day and in the evenings I am juggling an almost three year old and I find it hard to get them both to bed when they need to get to bed :-(

Here are our last few days:
Thursday
5am EAT (treated it like a NW)
6:40 A
7:45 E
8:20 S (55 min nap)
9:15 A
10:30 E
10:35 S (55m)
11:30 A
12:40 E
1:15 S (1hr 30m)
2:40 A
3:30 E
4:10 S (30m)
4 40 A
6 E
6:15 S
6:45 (awake and upset and then calm and very awake)
9:30 S (after 7:30 he cried for the next two hours but would not fall asleep, he was wrecked with exhaustion!)

1:15 NF
3:30 - tried to resettle him but fed him because he was so upset

THURSDAY
5am Wide awake - I decided to let this be his wake up for the day vs trying to keep it dark. He was wide awake and really upset until we turned on the lights)
7:30 E
7:40 S (50m, then he woke and I was able to nurse him back to sleep)
9:30 A
10:45 E/S (55m)
11:40 A
1:15 E
1:30 S (2hr 5m)
3:35 A
4:20 E
5 S
5:45 A, pooped
7 E
7:20 S

11 NF
2 NF
4-4:30 NW, rocked back to sleep
5:15, NW, fed him back to sleep


FRIDAY
6:45 A
8:15 E
8:20 S (50m)
9:10 A
10:45 E
10:55 S (1hr 50m)
12:50 A
1:45 E
2:30 S (2hr)
4:30 A
4:45 E
6 S (looked really tired)
6:35 Awake but tired and cranky, couldn't get him back to sleep)
7:30 E
7:45 S
8:45 crying and awake, wouldn't resettle
9:30 E/S

1:45 NW/NF
4 NW, wouldn't resettle and I was too tired, so I fed him
5:15 Awake, brought him into bed and nursed him back to sleep

SATURDAY so far
6:10 A - pooped :-( changed him but kept it dark until 7
7:40 E
7:45 S (1hr 55m)
9:40 A

I'm generally confused about how to start his A tine for the day since he wakes so early. How to handle the end of the day and NWs and also what to aim for for E times...the longer A times of 1hr 45m is what I'm aiming for now...help?!

[Baileysmom31112]

Update: Here is the rest of how Sat went - we had holiday party to go to, so naps in the late afternoon had to be adjusted...

SATURDAY
6:10 A - pooped :-( changed him but kept it dark until 7
7:40 E
7:45 S (1hr 55m - woke up crying and unhappy and I wasn't sure if I should try to get him back to sleep)
9:40 A
10:40 E
11:15 S (45m)
12 A
1:40 E
1:45 S (45m)
2:30-2:40 (was able to extend it for 10m)
4:25 S
4:50 A - we had to go to the party
5:15 E
6:15 E
6:30 S (1 hr)
7:30 A
9:15 E
9:30 S

2am NW/fed him
4:45 NW/fed him
5:45am crying - tried bringing him in bed w' me but it didn't help so I put him back in his side-sleeper and he quieted down

7:30 WU
8:15 E
9:15 S (9:50 cried but I resettled him, 11:05 cried but fell back asleep...and now it's a little after 12 and I'm trying to decide if I should wake him up?!)

[Baileysmom31112]

bump?

[jessmum46]

Hi hun sorry I missed you.

I think you are on the right lines stretching A times, those 55 min naps look a bit UT to me. I would try to get to 3 naps if you can rather than 4, we hit issues at this age with that. Pushing A times should help, you may need to work towards 2h.

Do you have a WU time in mind to work towards? If so I would treat anything before that time as a NW and wake him up at that hour or soon after to start the day if he hasn't woken naturally. May help give more rhythm to the day?  So for us we work on a 6.30am start so DS stays in his cot until then and I'll try to resettle if it's significantly before that time. If he is unsettled around 4/5am or has a bad night I allow until 7am but then wake him at that point.

What do you think?

[Baileysmom31112]

hi there! pushing A times to 2hrs is going well for daytime sleep, however, nothing seems to be getting better with nighttime sleep. Maybe it's even a little worse in terms of more wake ups?

In the evenings, I'm not sure whether to try for an earlier bt or let him have a late nap and then a later bt. If I do an early bt, he cries every 45 min and needs help back to sleep until around 8:30-9. If I do a later nap, he also fights bt but for a shorter period of time later in the evening. And then, either way, he is now is having NWs around 12:30, 4:30, and then around 5:15, 6:15 but then resettles until 8 sometimes. so that 4:30 on is pretty rough for me since I can't get much consecutive sleep....

Here is what the last two days looked like:

7 wake up (however he had NWs at 4, 5:15 and then was awake in the dark from 6:30 on)
8:45 E/S
9:30 A
11 E/S
12:30 A
1pm E
2:10 S
5:15 A (should my mum have capped the nap earlier?)
5:40 E
7: E
7:20 BT woke up at 7:45, 8:15, 8:50 and then settled into night sleep at 9pm

NWs: 12:20 (NF), 2:20-3:30 (that was a bad one!), 6:15 (NF)

8 WU
9:20 E
10:10 S
12:10 A
1 E
2 S
4:10 A
4:25 E
5:55 E
6:05 S - decided to treat it like a nap if he woke up happy)
6:55 A - happy
8:20 E
9:35 S (attempted BT at 8:45 and it took until 9:35 for him to go to sleep)

NWs: 12:30 (NF - I tried to resettle him first), then I brought him to bed to see if that would help so after that, 4, 5:15, 6:30)

8am WU today

I'm wondering if this is the reflux flaring up again - I do think he seems uncomfortable for some of the NWs - or if there is something I can do differently about the schedule? Jessmum - I know you said wake him at 7am but I'm just so tired at that point that I cherish the 6-8am sleep for me! I just don't know what to do :-( and then what do you think I should aim for in terms of bedtime??

[jessmum46]

Merry Christmas

Looking at those days I was just about to suggest discomfort as a possibility.  It doesn't seem like he should have been particularly overtired on either day to cause so many wakings.

When do you want to start your day?  I would try to aim for a relatively consistent BT around 12-12.5h after your ideal WU time x

[Baileysmom31112]

Blah! Definitely getting worse here. Last night he woke up at 9, 9:30, 1,2, 4:45, and 6:15. We kept it dark until 7 but now he's starting the day ot. His 4 month ped visit is on Wednesday. I'm going to ask about trying different reflux mess. It's just so frustrating because he is a happy baby gaining plenty of weight so the pediatrician isn't concerned and she thinks reflux is basically untreatable and just developmental. Sigh.

And merry Christmas to you too! 

[Baileysmom31112]

Update here. Tried giving lo otc prevacid again after googling suggestions on how to admister it. And! He slept from 9pm to 1:15am and then to 5:15am. Restless from then on to 7am which is way better than previous nights. I'll keep on w the prevacid and see if things get better. Otherwise, he's napping pretty well. Though should i cap naps at 2.5hrs? There are days when he takes a mega three hour nap. I'm guessing it's because his nights are still on the short side and he's trying to catch up?! It's tough to decide since im pretty sure his nws are mostly discomfort related and not habitual...

[jessmum46]

Oh yuck, I'm sorry nights are bad and also sorry your doctor isn't supportive.  Unfortunately it's a common misconception that well thriving babies don't need treatment for reflux.  Have you looked on or posted over on the reflux board?  There are some great tips in the FAQs and you'll get lots of support from Mums who have been through it.  Prevacid isn't otc here in the UK for babies so I'd always advise you should have the input of a medical professional, or at the least make sure you are carefully following manufacturer's instructions just to be on the safe side

If long naps aren't affecting night as far as you can tell, then I wouldn't worry too much about capping them.  Some mums here would tend to wake after 2h so as not to rob from night sleep but if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it x