Author Topic: Help! Please share your success story overcoming a BF problem... I'm sad  (Read 4451 times)

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Offline julia.north

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Hi Ladies...

so the end of the year is approaching and I am still struggling with my BF problem --> my LO is screaming, fussing, gulping at the breast (I have OALD and OS) and nothing is really helping.... I have tried feeding uphill, letting the milk spray out before he feeds, pumping a bit before feeding, burping him more frequently, taking breaks... however, in 8 out of 10 cases, he screams after 4-6 minutes, looks like he is in a lot of pain and refuses to feed again. The only times it works without problems is when he is tired, sleepy, or just waking up.

It messes up our beautiful routine... he was on a great 3-hr EASY up until 5 weeks ago and he even was STTN occasionally! Now we are back to frequent wakings, with him screaming. I think it is caused by hunger, as I can only get him to feed for around 4-6 min a time.

One month ago, I decided  that, if not solved by New Years Eve, I would consider giving bottles for almost all feeds (of BM).

Now it is almost New Years and I do want to continue to BF but I am just so sick of not seeing any improvement... and I need motivation to continue! Has anyone of you successfully overcome a BF problem, and if so, how did you manage not to give up too soon? How long did it take? Is there any hope?

My lactation consultant was not particularly helpful... when she came over to watch me BFing, it miraculously worked fine, my LO continued feeding after 4 min and a burp. So she thought the problem I was describing was not that big of a deal and could be solved by burping. However, even 2 burps and a break of 10min won't do the trick. He just gets worked up and angry. Leaving me crying at least once a day.

Please ladies, share success stories if there are any... I want to continue, I know BF is best for him, but I am a nerve wrack and upset.
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Hi there, just wondering how old is your lo? And also have you ever investigated reflux or some type of intolerance as being the cause of the discomfort?
Heidi




Offline julia.north

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Hi Heidi,

thanks for replying.
I was thinking about both but ...
reflux --> I do not think so as he is fine being laid down after drinking (in fact it's the only way he will stop crying - away from the breast lying down!) and the few times he feeds well (meaning calm and relaxed) he does not spit up nor seem to be in pain after the feed.

And intolerance... I think I can also rule this out, for the same reason as described above... or do you think I should keep looking into that?
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline julia.north

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oh, sorry, he is 15 weeks old... ???
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline michaeljacknnugg

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I thought reflux too - might it be worth getting him checked out? If it is then stopping bf will have little effect and you will have given up for nothing, yk?
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Offline Erin M

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There's a few ladies around here who have had the same problem, let me see if I can find a few of them. 
(((hugs))) sweetie

Offline becj86

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Hi honey, your post quite rightly reminds Erin on my BF experience with DS. Hugs xx It is SO tough when feeding isn't working smoothly, it really is. If you're pretty sure its not reflux or intolerance (it doesn't read like that to me but only because I have BTDT with this issue which looks so similar in the symptom stakes), its quite possibly not that. OS and OALD on their own can cause these issues.

I'm glad you know about the OS and the OALD - that was the lightbulb moment for me. All that remained was to find a way to deal with it. I'll be honest, DS had moments when he struggled with the flow even at 15 months but in general we did get the feeding much smoother and he BF until 2.5yo, after a very rough start.

What I found:
1. Don't feed every time LO cries - keep feeds at least 3hr apart. Feeding cues can also mean other things - gut discomfort which is so common with OS and OALD and is often helped by feeding because of the reflex that increases gut motility when LO feeds. It just perpetuates the problem though. For this, if LO is crying 1-3hr post-feed, rooting and/or pulling legs up to chest, try a tummy massage and pushing his legs up to his chest to help the gut motility without adding more air and milk to the equation.

2. L FREAKED! when the second letdown happened. I noticed it because around the time he'd clamp his little mouth down on my nipple and shake his head like a dog killing a snake, the other breast would spurt milk :P I'd say that's probably what's triggering the screaming 4-6min into the feed. What helped with this was to lie back and put DS on top of me. Side lying did not help, it didn't remove gravity from the equation sufficiently. A recliner chair was best in the end because much as he struggled with letdown, he would get frustrated with the slower flow just before it so I used to lie back initially and then sit up when he started to get restless then lie back again when the next letdown happened. This was just time and building trust for him that I would lie back and that would help.

3. You can do something about the OS - block feeding can be very helpful to reduce supply and balance out the foremilk/hindmilk imbalance which causes so much gut pain for LO (start with 2 feeds on one side - you can lengthen the blocks if necessary to drain the breast fully). Likewise, you can remove galactagogues from your diet - taking out oats made a massive difference for me.

4. You can take the OALD and foremilk/hindmilk imbalance out of the equation for a short time by expressing (don't necessarily need a pump, I could just trigger a letdown and squeeze my breast and get almost a litre :o ), mixing the milk so its uniform and bottle feeding. I did that for a few days out of desperation when DS was screaming his head off and the child health nurse said I had to stop eating dairy. I did it for 4 days, had a desperate appointment on Monday afternoon full of crying (mine and DS') and they asked if I'd swapped him for another baby when they saw me again on Thursday because he was SO much better. I spaced feeds, the feeds were balanced and he gained weight like he never had before (we had massive weight gain issues too).

5. 4-6min can be plenty of time to feed, even at this young age. It certainly was for my DS. Your LO doesn't have to learn to be efficient at removing milk from the breast, he just has to learn how to swallow fast enough without gulping down air ;)

6. Relaxation (you and baby) makes feeding much easier. I sometimes fed in the bath - less expectation and water relaxes me and my LO. I'd just lie in the bath with DS on my tummy and he'd latch on his own and feed very calmly. I think part of helping your DS be more calm about feeding in general will be to reduce that supply a bit so the flow isn't so much and both of you relax.

It sounds like you really don't want to stop but you're pretty close to the end of your tether. Hopefully there's something in there that can help you find something else to try. May the new year be better for you and yours xx

One little question - how are his poos?

Offline Ellie-Leo

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Watching with interest for ds3 (24 weeks, very unsettled feeder, silent reflux, excema, frequent night feeds, horrible smelling poo ....)




Happy to have breastfed DS1 for about 8 days, and DS2 for 8 months. Tried my best both times ;)

Offline julia.north

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Hi Ladies,

thank you SO MUCH for your answers. Apart from the really helpful suggestions, it feels so good not to be alone with this issue!

So I will have a doctor check LO out in the beginning of January, just made an appointment for the 11th. I thought reflux was not an issue, but now I want to be sure, as you guys pointed it out to me. Thanks for that, I will keep you posted!

I have also tried block feeding and already saw a bit of improvement!
Yesterday I got him to feed around 10 min (after a burp at the 4 min mark) and again for 20 min for the next feed. Also in the night he fed for 22 min! New record! My other boob was killing me though ( I got up at 4 am to pump as I couldn't take it anymore.)

I guess I just need to continue block feeding until my supply adapts.
Also I found him to feed much calmer when I am walking around. Its like the distraction gets him to almost forget about swallowing, which is good, as there is so much milk (he just lets the milk run out of his mouth). Between feeds he seemed very content both yesterday and today. Thank god! I was so worried girls. This is one of the first days in weeks that I am not crying  :)

I will keep you posted on the progress + the doctors appointment.
As for now, I actually think it might be a combination of three things: a light case of reflux + OS + OALD + my stupidity (I pumped a lot over the course of the last weeks because I wanted to establish a back up supply... stupid me, just told my breast to produce even more!)

My mom, who is a doctor, just told me that at the age of 4 month, 60 % of babies are physiologically dealing with reflux - wow what a percentage!

Poor LO, he's having a hard time.

Ladies, thanks again and happy new year!
I'll let you know how things progress.

Best wishes,

Julia

Offline julia.north

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Oh , the poos...

sometimes they are extremely watery and greenish
sometimes more like mango puree, yellow and with a bit more substance

I had quite a lot of diapers over the course of the last weeks that did not hold his explosive poos...
Guessing this is a result of the foremilk/hindmilk imbalance?
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline becj86

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Re: Help! Please share your success story overcoming a BF problem... I'm sad
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2015, 21:19:47 pm »
Guessing this is a result of the foremilk/hindmilk imbalance?
Yep, probably.

Stick with that block feeding, it can make a big difference. I thought it was an old wives tales but its true, cold cabbage leaves down the bra if you can handle the smell actually makes engorged breasts feel much better. Cold gel healing thingies you get from the pharmacy also do the job ;)

If you want to have a stash, I built a small one just by catching the letdown on the breast L wasn't feeding from - it was ~2oz per feed which equates to a feed or two each day if you feed 5-6 times. I found having a stash really helpful with growth spurts because if I was feeding extra from bottles, particularly in the evening and minimising the additional stimulation, my supply would go up enough but not too much if you see what I mean. I started this after I woke one day with terribly painful engorgement after DS had been feeding more due to GS and I hand expressed a litre of milk in one go. It was ridiculous!

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Block feeding worked wonders with DD2, I actually did all night feeds on one side (2-3 feeds) as she hated that side while awake and did more daytime feeds from the other side (so 2 or 3 in a row).
Heidi




Offline julia.north

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Happy New Year everyone!

so this was a tough day and night again... we're back to the screaming and fighting the breast after initial improvement. And he took forever to settle tonight... actually made gulping noises while trying to fall asleep.
This reflux thing seems to make more and more sense. And my letdowns are just ridiculous. Milk spraying anywhere. I'm trying to take my LO off the breast when the milk is pouring but he gets really upset about it.  Right now it takes me about 1hr to have him feed for 4-6 min total. And I am never sure whether he is full afterwards or not. He seems extremely gassy but not necessarily full.

becJ86: Was your LO full after feeding for 6min? Did he last the 3hrs? My LO screams a lot these days and I cannot tell whether it is the gas, hunger or something else. Really frustrating. I cannot wait to see the doctor. He used to be such a happy baby ???
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline becj86

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becJ86: Was your LO full after feeding for 6min? Did he last the 3hrs? My LO screams a lot these days and I cannot tell whether it is the gas, hunger or something else. Really frustrating.
Yes, at its worst, he screamed a LOT and given his every need had been attended to, I had to trust that he was screaming from the pain in his gut - it was a pain cry and when it starts up 1hr after a feed, its not hunger. If I helped him with the gas and tummy discomfort instead of feeding, he would go 4hr pretty happily, even at 6-7 weeks old.  It took several days of really consistently doing that after I dealt with the oversupply to settle him back down and he went back to his happy little self.

Would you consider "block expressing" (expressing but keeping one breast full to keep reducing supply) and bottle feeding him EBM for a few days to give him a chance to heal his gut and not have to deal with the OALD? I'm sure that's part of the massive quick improvement I saw with DS.

The green stringy poos were the biggest sign for us that things were bad, they became the only poo he did and became almost the consistency of wet grass, it was truly disgusting. The gut is damaged, for that to be happening and takes time to heal too.

Hugs xx Its awful when LO is so upset :'(

Offline julia.north

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so things got a bit better today after an awful night!

I stuck to the 3 hourly feeding (was a bit hard, as he only fed for 4 min in the morning and I kept thinking, 'poor LO, he must be hungry') but then on the next feed at 10:30 he fed for 16 min and was content for the three hours after. then he fed for 25 min on the same breast at 2:30 pm and ten more minutes on the other side (this time he did not seem to be bothered  by the OALD as he was half asleep when taking the other side and he just let the milk run out of his mouth.)

Poo has also improved: only a tiny yellow bit, not a big wash of green runny poo. I really hope we get this foremilk/hindmilk imbalance fixed, seems like we are on a good way.

I am being really careful with expressing now. Only expressed 30ml this morning when I couldn't take it anymore. My breasts already feel less full.

I'll keep you posted ... wish me luck!  :D :-*
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline julia.north

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Would you consider "block expressing" (expressing but keeping one breast full to keep reducing supply) and bottle feeding him EBM for a few days to give him a chance to heal his gut and not have to deal with the OALD? I'm sure that's part of the massive quick improvement I saw with DS.

I am a bit worried about nipple confusion TBH and I'll try to fix this with one bottle a day only for another week , if not consistently better by then i will try!
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline becj86

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Fair enough, seems like you're making good progress :) Best of luck!

Offline julia.north

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so... (I thought I'll keep you posted just in case you're interested or anyone else is following this)

nursing worked a lot better today!
he was still screaming at the 3-4min mark (up to 20min!) but THEN he would go back and nurse for 25 min (10am), 40 min (2pm) and 36 min (5pm)! So he was actually comfort nursing - so nice! and afterwards, he had rosy cheeks and a lovely sleepy smile and one hearty, big burp but no spit ups.

Seems like we are getting somewhere! I actually really enjoyed BFing today for the first time in weeks.
Poos are also improving. Instead of having 3-4 a day as he did over the past weeks, he had one tiny yellow one this morning and one just before bedtime at 7pm. And between feeds, he was really content.

Who knows, maybe the screaming after the 4min mark is a habit of his, as he has been doing this for almost 8 weeks now. Just now at the last feed I turned on the vacuumer as the noise distracted and calmed him. He doesn't seem to be screaming because of pain, it seems more like a mood swing now that the OALD has lessened.

I think wonder weeks are also a part of this. He is learning to turn around! And practising to sing and chatter.

Best wishes,

Julia

Offline becj86

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So glad BF is improving for you both :D

Just watch the comfort nursing doesn't increase your supply - not saying don't do it, just observe its effect on your supply and reduce/stop if you need to in order to keep your supply low enough that feeding still works well. It will get better as he gets bigger and more able to cope with the flow, etc.

Offline julia.north

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good point with the comfort nursing - I guess I didn't think of that!
Thanks for pointing it out I will observe this carefully
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline becj86

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You might as well learn from my mistakes ;) Easier than doing it on your own xx

Offline julia.north

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Re: Help! Please share your success story overcoming a BF problem... I'm sad
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2016, 18:42:37 pm »
Hi everyone,

so when I was BFing today I realized that I intended to keep you posted on how things developed, so here I am! LO is almost six months now and I am still BFing! Seriously, two months ago I did not think it was possible, but things got sooo much better now that he is bigger and more capable of handling the flow!

we are so efficient now! he feeds for 10 -12 min a time, quick and easy, two big burps in between and then he is good to go for 3,5 -4 hours. I also started him on solids and things are going really well. Also we replaced the dreamfeed by formula and he goes from 11pm to 8pm without needing to feed! it is amazing!

I am feeling so blessed right now.
Thank you ladies! Without the support, I would have quit in December, I am sure.
Now I am even considering BFing for a year, in addition to the solids and the formula DF.

So anyone who is struggling with a similar problem - there is hope!

 :) :) :) :)
Best wishes,

Julia

Offline michaeljacknnugg

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Re: Help! Please share your success story overcoming a BF problem... I'm sad
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2016, 18:45:16 pm »
That's wonderful news! Well done you!!!!
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Offline Erin M

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Re: Help! Please share your success story overcoming a BF problem... I'm sad
« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2016, 23:04:25 pm »
Hooray!  Nice job!

Offline *Ali*

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Yay! Well done you. Thanks for updating us.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011