Nursing & AP?

[clazzat]

I might try feeding when he wakes at 4-5 and then sleep with him until 7. Then you can feed at 7 and start your day a bit more predictably. He is still so little it's more important that he gets enough sleep than that it happens perfectly - not going to sleep until 4pm is going to mess with anything you try to do, so ap'ing is your only option.

[FPT23]

Right understood.... I do AP but he takes so long and I just give up after 20 mins bc the toddler and try a bit later. Especially in the mornings, when I'm so busy, kwim?

I'll go ahead and try that in the early mornings. He only takes from one side, is that ok for my supply for the other one? I offer it but he won't eat. What if he doesn't stay asleep until 7? Even in bed? I have found myself putting down for his nap as early as 7am at times.

Do you have any advice for the naps and my other toddler. Baby just takes hours to settle and actually fall asleep/stay asleep when PD. I try 20 mins with AP but he's a touchy baby with sleep it seems so it can take a bit

[clazzat]

In my experience if a touchy baby is taking that long to settle then you have missed the sleep window - I had to watch the clock with my touchy one as if I saw any sleepy cues then it was too late to get her down.

In the mornings if he is still not really settling with you and is sleepy at 7 then I would go ahead and put him down for a nap but keep it short to try to work on the routine.  If he is very tired then a catnap from 7-7.30 then you will probably find that he is still ready for another nap at 8.30/9 and hopefully things can fall into place a bit better then.

[FPT23]

Thanks for the suggestion! I appreciate the help!

Question: why would this be a CN? Or two if need be? How would that work by waking him? And how does it plan out throughout the day? Sorry I'm just trying to understand how would the feeds work? (Questions questions questions ha!)

I normally like to hold for the 20 mins so I can PD easier too. But I'll keep an eye out. He does pretty good awake considering he's OT/OS. He just hangs out but come getting him down to nap it does get tricky! I try not to go over the hour...! Sometimes it's hard napping every.single.hour with my toddler so I just call it a day and try a bit later.. Or do the stroller b/c I can't be bound to each nap! The mornings and his WUs need more tweaking! I never know his actual WU times too. We are in the same room but I've caught him just awake sometimes hanging out before he cries to call me...

[FPT23]

Back again! I have another question about BF and AP...

I wonder if any other moms have run into this and if so, suggestions would be wonderful!

So, my baby is 9 weeks old. I'm always unsure if he's hungry or not. We do follow EAS, but b/c of this, when he short naps... I feel he expects and just wants to be fed or given then breast. So sometimes he's being offered the breast/feed every hour? Which I know he doesn't need and can be an issue when changing to 3.5-4 hr feeds which he will be coming up on here shortly. It's pretty difficult to soothe after a short nap and there are days I just skip resettling (I have a toddler in the house) ...but then our eating patterns are thrown off. I find myself feeding before a nap and sometimes after the nap... He doesn't really need to eat and I can tell-- but as soon as he's off he's so upset.

He is a strong sucker. He does need a paci to settle for sleep... But never to stay asleep. (Spits it out/removed) ....but I'm stuck b/c I think all he wants is to comfort suck all day. After every nap too-- he normally never wakes happy.. And then he's constantly rooting. He's wetting and passing stools accurately.

Is there some suggestions to help soothe him besides the breast? I feel he's always upset with me when I don't and having him in my arms makes it worse as he can smell me I assume? If I put down its worse. I think he's gotten used to the routine of "eating" after WU times... And he's not even hungry. But won't stop till he gets it. As if this is all that soothes him... Anyone run into this issue with EAS? Other ways of comfort? My husband easily comforts him so I feel I'm the issue here :-/ ..he can smell me? That's my assumption.

I want a happy baby and I feel sometimes the breast is all he's used to and wants and that's ok by me but I think it messes with our EAS and routine and then I confuse him as he doesn't know what's next?

Help? :/

[FPT23]

Just to add:

He's very underweight. Went to his 2 month visit...
I am getting super discouraged
It's been far from pleasant this entire experience :-/

[trimbler]

Aw (((hugs))) that's hard Did the doc give you any advice with the weight gain? Is he just within the range of normal, or were they concerned? Sorry, I can't remember whether the reflux is medicated? If not, did you discuss that today? I just know it made such a huge difference to my DD getting her on ranitidine for the reflux and getting the TT sorted - as an aside, the TT clinic we attended had done some research on a correlation between reflux and TT, and had seen reflux symptoms improve after the TT division - still a tentative link, but interesting nonetheless. Anyway, I did wonder whether there might be an issue with milk transfer, given the weight issue? Also, the sucking can be soothing for reflux LOs, so getting that fully under control could help you to know when he's really hungry from when he wants to comfort suck. I think the general advice for reflux LOs is to feed little and often, which isn't quite EASY but might just be what he needs to do right now, at least until symptoms improve

[FPT23]

Thank u

He doesn't have intense reflux. As it turns out that bad breath was only temporary so it might have been an intolerance. I think he just has the normal stuff...

Yeah it's a bit discouraging
And yes the issue is milk transfer. This was established after a meeting with a consultant and I fed him and they were weighing him after. We had been feeding over and hour and he barely transferred but this was at like 3 weeks old. I was certain things had improved!!

[trimbler]

(((Hugs))) can you see a lactation consultant where you are?

[FPT23]

Ive seen 101 of them!! I just came back from another one.... We'll see what happens thank you

[trimbler]

(((Hugs)))

[clazzat]

Sorry I haven't been around for a while, and sorry to hear that things aren't going well.

When you say that he is underweight, what exactly do you mean? Is there a genuine medical concern about his weight gain (ie failure to thrive) or is it just that he is not putting on weight at the same rate as he was? My ds started out on the 90th percentile but by 4 months he was on the 8th. I was fortunate that I was confident that he was doing fine (the joy of being on my third!) and having a really good health visitor who looked at him and was satisfied that he was thriving. You say that he has plenty of wet and dirty nappies, so there is a good chance that he is getting enough, so I would suggest that you look at him objectively (without considering his weight) and ask yourself whether you think he is developing the way he is supposed to - and if he is, then try to relax about the feeding. Some babies do drop from their early curve - my oldest has also plummeted down the charts - without it being an issue.

Wrt to reflux, two of mine were refluxers, both officially mild refluxers, but the difference once they were on meds was startling. I think it is easy to underestimate how distressing even mild discomfort can be for them, so I would follow up on getting some sort of meds to gauge how much difference that makes. Dd2 was fine with gaviscon, which is just a thickener rather than an antacid, but she did still really need it.  I would venture to suggest that trying to solve anything else while there is a possibility that reflux is causing discomfort is a bit futile.

[FPT23]

Clazzat! I've missed you around as you were a good help to me in the earlier days 

Well weight has always been an issue. He's 9% ... I was disappointed as I thought we had this down already....
As far as developmentally- I know all babies reach milestones at different times but our dr told us by 4 months our goal is to have him roll from tummy to back. I know 2 backed around his age who already can and he can't. He is quite petite. He is holding his head up better each time though. I went to yet another lactation consultant yesterday and the latch is well, supply is well... Guess he can't transfer well enough. TBH it has been nothing but stress and struggle breast feeding and it makes me rather sad. I'm holding on but it's been nothing problems and it's getting very discouraging as I had hoped it would get easier by almost 3 months here soon... Last night he woke every 2-3 hrs (super unlike him!) and he was pooping constantly. Normal BF stools though. So who knows what's happening in there....

As far as reflux, I think it was an intolerance atm. I think he's had minor reflux but nothing excessive to where I feel it should be medicated. I think it's the norm. I guess b/c my first was BAD with reflux? But the bad breath was only momentarily! It went away... And it was the first time too! I think he wasn't a fan of something in my diet...

[trimbler]

Has he always been at 9%? If so, chances are that's just his natural size. Or has he actually been losing weight? Would you mind describing how a feed usually goes? Ie does he seem hungry to start with, does he make noises whilst feeding, can you hear him swallow, does he take long gulps or spend much of the time doing small comfort sucks? Do you feel your breasts get emptier during the feed? Do you offer both sides? If he fusses, is he doing high pitched screams like it hurts, or does he turn away to look around, or does he seem impatient? Do you have a forceful letdown? Or a slow/delayed one? I'm no expert but perhaps if you described what his feeding is like then someone will have a thought. I'm sure you'd discussed all this with the LCs anyway - what is their opinion? Were they concerned at all, did they give you any particular advice?

[clazzat]

2 of mine didn't roll at all, and one didn't roll back to front until he was nearly 10 months! He could actually crawl before he could roll!  My point being that you can't really set goals for them to achieve by a certain age as they do all do things differently and often in different orders - ds has always had much better fine motor skills and little interest in gross motor which means that he has often looked "behind" because he is not as interested in practicing gross motor skills.

I would say that rather than looking for him mastering a particular skill you would be better to look at the overall picture - is he contented, is he responding to you, is he interested in the world around him? Those things are more significant - and noticeably absent in a baby who is genuinely not thriving - than whether or not he can do something that "other babies his age" can do. It is also entirely possible, if he is on the small side, that he is going to take longer to develop the musculature that means he can do these things - that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong.

What I'm trying to get at is that everything else you say suggests to me that he is doing okay with feeding - good latch, good supply, plenty of wet and dirty nappies - and I am concerned that you are worrying unnecessarily simply because he is small. Some babies have to be - that's how the charts have to work, with some at the top and some at the bottom. In my experience there are a lot of health professionals who feel that they have to intervene with small babies and there isn't always a reason to do so. Try to trust your instincts on how he is doing, and don't assume that bf'ing isn't working just because he is small.

At 9 weeks my first thought for the fussiness and the NWs would be OT - they need so much sleep, and when you don't have time to resettle because of the older one they fall into an OT loop really quickly. It is also very easy to assume that they are hungry when they wake up tired because they do give a lot of hungry cues. Are you able to put him down for his naps a bit earlier to see if that will help him sleep longer? Another thing you could try is holding him through the jolts - it's not something that I ever did, but I think there is a sticky on it over on the sleep board.

Last point: if you are hating bf'ing, and it is making you stressed and you don't believe that it is working for your lo then don't feel that you have to continue - a happy healthy mum and a happy healthy baby are much more important than sticking to something that isn't working because you feel you have to.