Author Topic: 6 week old refusing feeds  (Read 6971 times)

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Offline Raroo

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6 week old refusing feeds
« on: August 14, 2016, 15:32:41 pm »
Hi all
my LO will be 6 weeks tomorrow. For 3 days she has been rejecting maybe every 2nd or 3rd feed.
She wakes up or I wake her for the feed and she looks hungry but as I hold her in position she starts
to scream hysterically and will not calm down. The only way to calm her ia by putting her back to sleep. She is ebf
and takes a dummy. Il post our rough EASY how its been for past couple weeks before this new pattern. Its still early days so it really is rough.

We start at 7 30 with E and is up for 1 hr inc A time. Then a 2hr nap. This is all day until 10 30 where we do
E and then A is bath and then e again and S at 11 30. Lo then wakes up at 4 30 for a feed and then 7 30.

Now that LO is rejecting feeds, she is eating more like every 4 hrs and in the night wakes up at 1am and
then 7.
It seems like LO wants to just sleep instead of eat but I am worried about my milk supply. LO has gained 1.6kg since birth so i know she is gaining.
Any insight as to whats going on? Thank you!

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2016, 20:02:36 pm »
It sounds like she could be overtired. Nights would ideally be more like 10-12hrs long from 7 or 8pm to 6 or 7am so she could me making up for the really late night.

In the day she could probably manage a little longer than 1hr of A time, maybe try 1hr10-15?. Some babies at this age prefer to go longer between feeds so if she is sleeping I'd let her sleep unless she is still sleeping at the 4hr mark. Babies do sometimes get their days and nights mixed up so it could be she hasn't worked out when to stay up between feeds yet. You might need to work on making it more obvious when it is daytime by keeping it light and active and when it is night time by keeping it dark and quiet.

Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2016, 03:21:14 am »
Thanks for the reply!  The past couple of days have been even worse. Its nearly every feed now.
lo just screams as i try latch her till I put her to sleep. Its like she doesnt
want to be awake. Then shel wake up a few min later and have a very short feed before
coming off and wont relatch again. So feedings have been very random. Even now, LO slept from 10-5am
And woke up looking for food but wouldnt latch. Had to
do pat/sh for a few mins, let her sleep for 10 min and then LO had feed. Ill try the earlier
bath and bedtime tonight and see how it goes. I can try extend our A times but even as it is
LO struggles to keep up for the hr.
Thank you

Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2016, 03:31:22 am »
As a side question, do you think I should be pumping to keep up my supply? Im really woried about it.
I dont have the rush of milk in before a feed and bearly feel any coming in at the start of the feed.
Also lo bobs on and off crying even if she does latch.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2016, 07:12:10 am »
You can certainly pump if you're worried about supply but if she is gaining well and having plenty of wet nappies you probably don't have asupply issue.

It's fine for her to sleep at night without feeds if that is of her doing.  That quite common at this age.

Have you tried doing breast compressions when she first latches on? That helps dislodge the fatty molecules from the sides of the ducts.

I'd probably hold off with the dummy right now.  You want all her sucking to be done at your breast.

Can you get to see a lactation consultant or get down to a breastfeeding support group? There's no substitute for IRL help in these situations.

Have you spoken to your health visitor or GP about it?

Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline zissi

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2016, 10:49:54 am »
hey, I would def get a lactation consultant looking at her feeding and also into her mouth and assess tongue mobility etc. what you describe sounds very much like my LO who was diagnosed with tongue tie eventually. it started with fussiness at the breast in the evenings first and then went onto all feeds except of nighttime feeds when she was sleepy. basically due to the restricted tongue LO wasn't able to get at the milk and got frustrated. while your supply seems to be great at the moment (driven by hormones rather than demand) it will go down with this irregular feeding. she is still very young and should feed more. so, if I were you I would get a LC to check on you and raise the possibility of tongue tie. hope things work out soon!!
oh and I did start pumping as I was terrified to lose my supply.
Franziska

Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2016, 18:13:10 pm »
I took to a pead and she said LO very congested and has red ears. She is
starting her on an anti biotic for her ears and I have been using saline for her
nose. Really hope the feeding improves once the anti biotocs start taking effect.
I have been trying to express to keep my supply going but its so low :-(.
Will go to lactation consultant on monday if no improvement

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2016, 21:59:41 pm »
I'm glad the gp spotted that. I hope it helps.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2016, 19:57:36 pm »
didnt help :-( LO just wont nurse even now 5 days on the antibiotic.
guess lc is next.
I have been trying to express but.get so little

Offline zissi

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2016, 20:29:55 pm »
please do get to see a LC asap to get to the bottom of this. hope things will improve very soon!
Franziska

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2016, 07:14:43 am »
So are you feeding something else if you haven't managed to get LO latched on for 5 days?

I'd definitely get IRL help.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2016, 10:29:12 am »
i have been expressing because lo will take bottle very happily. But I only get about 10oz a day
Some feeds LO will come on and off but have a bit each time.These feeds are screaming
matches and last well over an hr as she really fights it. The LC said its just
the ear infection and should resolve once totally cleared. LO has lost a bit of weight this week but
she said thats normal.

Offline zissi

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2016, 20:21:07 pm »
is this LC experienced in tongue tie? did you mention this to her? TBH I find it a bit strange that a baby wouldn't feed due to an ear infection, usually when they are sick all they want is to feed. but Im no expert so don't know. would you go back to her? I presume you are topping up with formula, as 10oz don't sound enough?
Franziska

Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2016, 18:57:52 pm »
The 10oz is what i can express and see LO drinking. Then she has a few bits of feeds througjoit
the day. So she is getting more than what Im expressing but its a big struggle. I havent been supplementing
with anything else. She has got enough wet diapers that I know shes not dehydrated.
I am also starting to doubt it being from ears. honestly, it seems like is too lazy to work at breastfeeding.
She is happy to take the bottle. Maybe I should try get a second opinion?

Offline zissi

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2016, 19:23:12 pm »
yes I would def get a second opinion from a LC that knows about tongue tie. also, the more bottles she has the more she prefers that way of feeding as it is much easier than feeding on the breast. hope things will improve soon!
Franziska

Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2016, 20:50:23 pm »
ok thanks going to try fine one asap. Would you say I should be stubborn with holding back the bottle
or if shes missed enough feeds to just give in?. Id like to think she wouldnt starve herself
but maybe she would,shes nearly 8 weeks.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2016, 13:31:57 pm »
Id offer the breast first for every feed and then the bottle a short time later if you don't feel she got enough. I wouldn't go too long refusing to offer the bottle if she is not gaining much weight. Do get help IRL though.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2016, 21:14:01 pm »
Things are really bad. LO went from 4.5kg to 4.1 2 weeks later then 4 and now 3.95kg.
My lc said no tongue tie, she suspects couldnt feed well due to ear infection and then my
supply dropped which frustrated her. LO doesnt feed from me at all besides for perhaps
Twice a week if Im lucky. First I was finger feeding with a syringe every feed then with a naso gastral
tube in the bottle. Now Im giving bottles. I express every feed which is exhausting and I really struggle
to get enough. I just started topping up with formula the last couple of days for a couple of feeds.Im
devastated about this all. I feel very strongly about bf, I successfully fed my other children till 1.1/2  with no
prob. Im currently doing the following to up my supply; on domperidine 2 3 times a day, doing
one power pump a day, taking fenugreek 3 3 times a day, drinking malt beer, drinking jungle juice (shlehns
elixir, apple juice, rehidrate powder and water) and of course drinking plenty of water. Even with that, I struggle
to get more than 2 oz on a bad session and 4 on a good.
I try latch on LO before shes too hungry, when shes happy,skin to skin, after the let down, after a sip from the bottle,
But none of these help.
Any advice would be so appreciated!! I would do anything to be able to carry on bf.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2016, 10:04:26 am »
I'm so sorry thinges aren't going to plan. Well done for persevering through such a tough ride.

Have you tried to see if LO will latch on with a nipple shield?  What pump do you have? Sometimes exclusive pumping requires a hospital grade pump.

What does the lactation consultant suggest trying next?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2016, 18:04:57 pm »
I have been using the medela swing and mini electric both double. I Also tried a hospital grade medela that
I borrowed but found I got less with it. Tried a nipple shield but she wouldny
go near.
The LC thinks perhaps with time she will begin to nurse again.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2016, 11:55:30 am »
Maybe it is just a matter of keeping on trying.

Will LO latch on when asleep have you tried?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2016, 17:21:29 pm »
It wake her up because shes so distresses by it. I Feel like i have tried everything and theres just no hope of breastfeeding. I am hand expressing each feed as this is the only way i can get enough. I REALLY Dnt wanna switch to formula.

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2016, 22:43:13 pm »
Would you be willing to carry on expressing for now until a certain date, say next week and the reassess? Many women do exclusively pump for a long time. It is doable if you think you would like to.

I'm dissapointed that your LC isn't being more proactive.

Have you tried snuggling in bed or the bath for a long time and letting LO find her own way to the breast? What about a supplemental nursing system?
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline zissi

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2016, 20:40:36 pm »
Im really sorry to hear you are having such a tough time. how much domperidone do you take? its recommended to take 3 tablets 3 times per day, I think thats 90mg. google Dr.jack newman and domperidone. It helps quite well most women. I still think tongue tie could be the issue. would you consider seeing a different LC? not all of them have experience with TT. she could also have nipple confusion and doesn't know how to feed at the breast anymore. to help with this a good LC would be really necessary. hope things will get better soon. and you have done already an amazing job, feeling, pumping etc.
Franziska

Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2016, 20:43:18 pm »
Two Lc's said no tongue tie and two peadiatricians. I have been away since LO was just born so now Im back home I will find a new LC. LO has completely forgotten how to nurse.I have been taking 2 domperidones three times a day and have seen a supply boost. Not struggling anymore with supply just desperste to get her back on the breast.
Starting cranialsacro therapy tomorrow as LC recommended that.
For now, just hanging in! thanks for all the support! As a side point, how much should LO be taking in a bottle at each feed? We are doing 6 feeds in a 24 hr period 

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2016, 18:57:17 pm »
The average is 25oz a day but the normal range is anything 19-30oz. So it'll probably be 3.5oz to 5oz. If she's drinking more though that's absolutely fine. You can't overfeed a BF baby as long as it's not making her too gassy etc.. If she's drinking less that could ok as long as it's not too much less and she is choosing to stop herself and not because the bottle is empty.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2016, 21:07:31 pm »
Ok so we are averaging 4oz a feed so I guess thats ok.
Thank you!

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2016, 21:20:21 pm »
That's sounds very normal :)
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline KingCabbage

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2016, 15:34:41 pm »
I was just about to come on here and post about this same problem! It's not as extreme for us but it's so very frustrating.

My LO actually refused to eat for 8 hours once when it happened the first time - same deal as yours it sounds like, wouldn't latch, or would root and begin to latch then pull away crying. Eventually would cry so much she'd wear herself out and go to sleep. Same cycle would repeat. We took her to teh emergency room we were so worried. The doctor said it was probably just a symptom of her colic and she would eventually eat. I was so mad! But then she latched on right there in the doctor's office right as we were about to leave.

We consulted an LC too and she couldn't help with the fussiness; at least she didn't say anything too helpful, just tried to give me advice on holds and ways to get her to latch. By the time we had consulted her, LO was eating okay again and we mostly called her in to make sure the not-eating didn't happen again. She did diagnose a tongue tie and lip tie and we got it treated - things got a bit better with overall feeding but I am not convinced that was causing the refusal to eat.

I am actually going back to work in a week and we had been using a bottle now and then to get her used to it. She ate from them no problem - til a few days ago. Now she is refusing bottles. I tried to switch between BFing and bottle during feedings yesterday and today and now she is back to refusing BOTH and having trouble latching again.

I share all this mostly to commiserate! But also in case any details can help. I am starting to think she is experience nipple confusion or something but it's affecting ALL latching, bottle or breast. Maybe something about the way things feel in her mouth? Not sure.

One thing that sometimes helps me is I gently jiggle her and SHHHH very loudly to distract her from crying, then immediately pop her on the breast. If she cries I do it again....sometimes it takes several times but she ususally will be distracted enough to start sucking eventually. Then she goes for it! It's not a foolproof technique but it works sometimes for us.

Good luck! I am so sorry to hear your situation, it sounds so so rough :C

Offline malibu_nikkus

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2016, 17:15:30 pm »
How did everything go in the end?





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Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2016, 20:55:58 pm »
We have done 4 sessions of cranial osteopathy but not seen any results. LO wont latch at all, as soon aa she senses the breast the starts crying and turning away. I could cry too. We have been doing bottles for too long now so I actually stoppes yesterday and will only do finger feeding. Im desperately hoping that once LO is off the bottles she will be more willing to come back onto me. I feel like Im fighting a lost battle though. I got in touch with a new LC but sje didnt sound confident at all, she said maybe a new position will help but I really dont think this is about positions.
So we are taking it day by day with alot of sadness and sometimes tears but Im nt ready to give up on my dream of bf fir a year and a half.

Offline Shiv52

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2016, 21:24:39 pm »
Hugs hugs hugs xx

You're doing so well.

I do think stopping the bottles will help. We have an awful start to BFing as I ended up with a breast abscess and nipple shields and pumping and bottles. Fading the bottles helped a lot.

When things were tough and I needed to up supply I took to bed with my DD3 and just did loads of skin to skin an dlet her take the lead with feeding. Feeding lying down really helped too as it was much more relaxing for us both.

Holding your hand. Take one feed at a time xx





Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2016, 21:35:59 pm »
Sorry you haven't had more success. Big hugs.

Have you considered using a supplemental nursing system and sneaking the breast in midfeed transferring it from finger to breast perhaps?

« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 11:37:02 am by *Ali* »
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Offline zissi

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2016, 19:01:10 pm »
sorry to hear about all this. it sounds like nipple confusion and she may have learned that being on the breast is distressing as she can't get at the milk, hence the strong refusal. the lactation aid sounds like a good idea and loads of skin to skin in bed lying down might help too. let her find the breast if she wants without any pressure, if not just snuggle, taking a warm bath together might relax her too. or maybe you could pump exclusively? I know its not the same but at least this way you could continue to provide your milk? I think at this stage you have to think a little about yourself too, your mental health is important too! when I was in a similar situation (although we never had that degree of breast refusal) I set myself little goals, like I "had" to feed until 4 months, then 6 months, then 9 months and so on. now LO is 16 months and gets very excited about feeding. I really really think its tongue tie and I can't understand that nobody is spotting it. the symptoms you describe just sound like anything I know about TT (and I know a lot since I learned the hard way...) moving away from the bottles is important too, could you cup feed her maybe?
Franziska

Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2016, 20:50:22 pm »
Hi all
Just an update. We have been finger feeding for nearly a month now. LO will not nurse from me at all still. We have seen 2 more peads who say no tongue tie or any physical issue why Lo wont nurse. I have been expressing every feed and generally get 30oz a day. Every so often my supply drops from one second to the next and I have to fight for each drop if milk and supplement a feed or so a day with formula. I'm so nervous that my milk will dry up and then I will have lost out not only on the emotional side of nursing but the nutritional value too. For now I just have to take each feed at a time

Offline zissi

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2016, 20:04:24 pm »
sorry to hear you are still struggling. are you taking anything to boost milk supply? I think with exclusive pumping that might be advisable. continue to do skin to skin etc, she may go onto the breast some day. how old is she now?
Franziska

Offline Raroo

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2016, 01:43:30 am »
yes im taking domperidone. If i try stop, my supply goes very very low within a few days
 Is there any problem staying on it long term? LO is now 4 months

Offline *Ali*

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2016, 23:29:52 pm »
Sorry, I don't know. Do you have a patient info leaflet on it?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 14:06:56 pm by *Ali* »
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Offline zissi

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2016, 21:38:44 pm »
I was on it for 4 months and I know of people who were on domperidone for over a year. is your GP prescribing it? doctors don't like women being on it long term especially at a high dose. maybe have a look here:
http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/content.php?pagename=doc-DGS
are you still pumping exclusively or feeding at the beats too? either way, you are doing so well. well done for being so persevering!
Franziska

Offline ele

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Re: 6 week old refusing feeds
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2016, 01:28:41 am »
hi, I just notice this. my 10 cents please.
my daughter did tend to refuse a number of  feeds. and she did give me a lot of hard time. we tried one lc and la Leche guys too ( not sure you have this). she didn't want to latch etc etc.
here is what I learned and wanted to pass on to you. (of course, you do want to see if she is a little sick or eliminate any other serious causes. but once that's eliminated, like you said....)
take it easy, feed a little more rarely (as she wants). never help her latch on, she can do it herself. try to relax and do not force feedings. may be even go away for a little if the feeding goes wrong, let your husband take over etc etc. when you are more relaxed, baby will be more relaxed and may want to eat.
caveat, you gave bottle, so may be, just may be, she likes bottle little better now, but that changes. mommy is so much better, she calms with her touch (when she IS calm). so do stay calm please.
we never gave a bottle, went through ton of stress. never had anything to boost milk. panicked a lot, which did make it worse. no one found any problem. as long as baby gains weight, RELAX please, baby eats enough. baby will never ever ever let you underfeed them , they will let you know.
i went through panic attacks just like you,but now she is 2 yo and I wonder WHEN she will stop :) and I have no breast to speak of, so just relax. feed when she needs. by 4 months it became a breeze. as long as you offer when She wants as long as she wants and stay calm, it should help ease tension.
also, what did help me, I think to keep milk supply was feeding on one breast till she "emptied", then to the second.
another note, you will never pump same amount of milk as your daughter will suck out. don't measure. relax.
the answer from most wise people (but felt like insensitive one at the time of difficulties), if she gains, she is good. so I weighed her fairly regularly (may be once a week or every other week for few months).
good luck! I hope this helps a little, I know how scary it can be in the midst of it.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 02:06:19 am by ele »