Author Topic: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?  (Read 316 times)

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Offline leesa001

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Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« on: January 07, 2017, 00:26:34 am »
My 3 month old (13 weeks) will only bf 5 minutes total.   In order for me to ensure he gets a full feed I nurse him again for another 5 minutes before nap.  This often results in him falling asleep.    I will detach him from the nipple before he has fully fallen asleep So his easy is more EAES.    I have tried to have him nurse longer or let him wake nurse play nurse play sleep but he isn't interested at all and only arches his back and protests if I try to feed him again
He eats every 3 hours and only wakes twice a night.  Sometimes after his nap he isn't interested in nursing at all.
I know I have to eliminate the nursing before nap, because he wakes 10 minutes into the nap and almost always at 45-50 minute between sleep transitions
Should I just let him nurse for the 5 minutes and refuse the breast until the next session?

Offline Martini~

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2017, 06:56:34 am »
I would try Honey even for the sake of checking.
~Marta

Offline *Ali*

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 21:49:33 pm »
How long is he awake between naps then? 3hrs?

I wouldn't refuse the breast if he is cuing for it at this age. If he's fed 1.5hrs ago though I would definitely see if he'll settle to sleep without another feed. You could try to settle him with shush pat but if he's rooting and getting upset then he may genuinely be hungry.



Offline KBolton

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 09:53:10 am »
I have had to nurse just before sleep, particularly during growth spurts. To not interrupt all my hard work, I go into her bedroom 5minutes earlier than normal. It takes her 10minutes to takes herself to sleep, so I go in 15mins before hand. Once she slows and is comforting herself rather than eating, I remove her from the breast and go into the bed time routine (swaddle, blinds etc..). Then I put her down in her crib and let her wind down herself. I was using shush pat which helped us both get used to her going to sleep in her crib,  I now just sit near her with some white noise. She does protest at not being cuddled and on the breast, but she always goes to sleep within a couple of minutes on her own. This has really helped with her napping in general, she used to be a cat napper but now I get 1.5-2.5hrs most days.

Offline leesa001

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2017, 13:46:46 pm »
He is on a 3 hours easy.  His A time is generally 1 hour.   
So far day 2.  The first feed he didn't take much because he had been up all night.  Every 50 minutes   not sure if it was a growth spurt or sleep cycle  transitions?   His first nap  I laid him and was able to get him to sleep while shush patting   but he woke up at 45 minute mark. I held him through the transition and he slept for an additional 30 min .   When he got up he was wailing and fed for 30 min.   Next nap still did not give in he again woke at 45 min but was able to sneak in before and hold him down through the sleep cycle .  He didn't feed quite as long  only 15 min.  This went on through the day. 
Last night he still woke every 2.5-3 hours and I did nurse to sleep   I just don't have the stamina right now to work on night and he won't take the bottle .   
This morning he only nursed for about 7 minutes so I did try to nurse him about 20 minutes before bed.   He only nursed for a minute and wasn't interested.  We shall see how today goes

Offline Martini~

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2017, 16:59:40 pm »
Honey be aware that at 3months you should rather aim for 1:30 A time if you hope for 1.5h nap. Some kiddos start the transition to 4h easy and need even 1:45-2:00 A to have a long nap.
~Marta

Offline leesa001

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2017, 10:10:54 am »
Babes is nursing longer after naps,  but still wakes st 40-50 min mark.  I am convinced it is the sleep cycle transition he can't Make thtough.   
His activity time is not longer as suggested as he gets very fussy first, and yawning near the 1 hour mark.  Thereafter it will take another 15min for him to settle to sleep. So I suppose his a time from eyes open to eyes closed is 1h20m.     Today we went grocery shopping during his A time, but did not get back home in time for his S.   Was hoping he would sleep in the car seat, but would not.   I had to nurse him before immediately putting him down for a nap because his E time was approaching and he still hadn't slept.
Upon waking at the end of the 45m cycle I give him a pacifier to resettle. 

Offline Martini~

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2017, 10:23:31 am »
It's possible that he is yawning and rubbing his eyes at 1hr mark but in general it maybe that he is used to sleep after 1-1:10, not closer to 1:30. It is of course combined with nursing to sleep and pacifier, but neither lengthening the A time will help nor eliminating props, if you don't combine it together:).
~Marta

Offline leesa001

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2017, 13:49:23 pm »
Extending the A time makes me more nervous.  Can he really sustain eating every 4 hours on only 7-10 minutes of nursing?  Won't my supply Decrease?   

I never thought that extending out his A time would extend his naps  but shorten them because he is overtired.   
I can give it a try.
Do you have a link for transitioning from 3- 4 HOUR easy?

Offline *Ali*

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 23:36:39 pm »
I'm a bit confused because you said he is eating every 3hrs and that he is on a 3hr EASY but what you describe above is neither of those things  :-\

A 3hr EASY at this age would ideally be 1.5hrs of A time followed by 1.5hrs of napping with a BF at the start of each 3hr period. E.g.
7.00 E
7.00-8.30 A
8.30-10.00 S
10.00 E and so on.

This is the routine I would be aiming for to start with, not a 4hr routine if his A times are currently much shorter and he isn't even making it 3hrs between feeds. 4mo is the age we usually recommend moving to a 4hr routine and even then many EBF babies don't make it 4hrs between feeds until much later. Many people do a 3.5hr routine for a while too. It is common for BF babies to take an entire feed in 10 minutes by now because they get more efficient. All 3 of mine were on under 10 minute BFs by this age.

I think he is probably UT right now and that's why he is waking so often after 45 minutes. I'd definitely extend the A times to 1.5hrs like pp says. You can do it gradually by 5 minutes at a time every 1-3 days if you are worried about OT.

You could also try wake to sleep or holding through the jolts to help him learn to transition to the next sleep cycle. It's really common for babies to need help with that at this age.



Offline leesa001

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2017, 13:52:25 pm »
I  had him on the easy schedule based on pg 25 of the bwsayp book.  So the A time was 1h15m   I never realized of the extension of A time to 1h30.
Yesterday I extended his A times based on his cues.  And he mostly made it to 1h30m.   The first nap was great  he didn't wake through the sleep cycle and slept for 1h15m  the rest of the day  he was still waking at the 30m mark.   I had to give him an extra cat nap because of the 2-- 30m naps during the day.   At night bedtime he nursed from7-8  BUT I HAD no supply    left.  He was furiously sucking o his fingers.  i had to get my husband to defrost some expressed milk and he had 4 ozbottle .   He was very difficult to settle I was shush patting on and off for 1.5hrs before he finally slept.   

He is making it between feeds.  If he wakes early from a nap he isn't hungry  and I will generally hold off until his next feeding time, however because the routine has now shifted that is usually the same time that he would have to go back to sleep.    The reason I was feeding him twice during the A time was because his feeds were only 3 or 5 minutes and I didn't believe that it was a full feed to sustain him.
I will continue the next 3 days on extending his A time to 1.5hrs

Since dropping the nursing before nap though I have noticed a significant decrease in my supply

Offline leesa001

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 18:46:06 pm »
Since increasing his activity time babes is sleeping worse.   Last night he was up every 2 hours.  His naps are now shorter from 45 to 30 min.   I'm at my wits end  .    I don't know what I'm doing wrong.  He's crying, I'm crying, then he wakes my toddler and she's crying.   It's a Mess!
I've eliminated the pacifier and nursing to sleep.

He breaks out of his swaddle a.   I try holding him down shush pat through the sleep transition.  Sometimes it works, other times it doesnt.     
When should I stop helping him to get back to sleep? I feel he can't fall asleep without the shush pat?  How long will it take for him to finally get it?
I don't remember it being this hard with my daughter  and she was a bad sleeper as an infant too!

Offline *Ali*

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Re: Snacker or nuse to sleep association?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2017, 12:54:09 pm »
I'd keep the A time to 1hr 30 from eyes open to eyes closes at the start of the day but then if you get a nap of 45 mins or less he'll likely want to sleep again much sooner.

Have you considered a zip-up swaddle like the Woombie so he can't break out?

If you've weaned the paci that will likely have an effect for a while.

Are you still feeding at night? It's normal that he'll need night feeds at this age for a while yet.