Author Topic: 1-0 no idea need help  (Read 33585 times)

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Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #210 on: December 08, 2014, 22:55:12 pm »
As with any plan honey, it will take a few days (probably a couple of weeks realistically) before you're really going to know if it's working. You will need to keep going with the plan so that you can see if it suits.

When you say they were bad NWs, was he crying the whole time, or was he awake and calm/chatty?
~ Naomi ~




Offline Straffles

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #211 on: December 09, 2014, 20:55:59 pm »
So we did another nap day yesterday.

He had a mammoth day and collapsed at 7.30. He was awake at 4.30. It was an intolerable time trying to get him to rest he was just screaming to get up. Eventually he rested with me reading books in the light of my phone. 9 hr night.

I do t know what to do.

Do I cancel our days activities? I run a playgroup.

He is ot surely not ut. This is dreadful

Offline anna*

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #212 on: December 09, 2014, 21:10:05 pm »
Are you not considering trying the Groclock? Taking yourself out of the fight when he wakes up at that time? To me this sounds like OT yes but with a healthy dose of toddler stubbornness in there too...  IIWM (and I know, it is not), I would keep daytime activities and bedtime broadly the same, get a Groclock, put a gate up at his door, and let him know that when he sees the moon, mummy and daddy are sleeping and will not be getting up, it is time to lie down in bed.





Offline Straffles

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #213 on: December 09, 2014, 21:47:24 pm »
Yes re the gro clock I am still looking for an affordable one.

But neither me and definitely not my partner wd leave him to cry or scream.

Point is, if he's this ot that he can't sleep then why and what do I do? Please?

Offline creations

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #214 on: December 09, 2014, 22:10:26 pm »
No one would expect or want you to leave him to cry or scream alone. The gro clock (or timer lights) is a very useful tool in helping LOs learn when to wake up and when to try to go back to sleep. Being an independent sleeper helps too.  It's a process of learning with the gro clock where you would initially set it very early to enable success, then ease out the time. Yes there may be times of being firm too but this doesn't mean you do not respond to your child - there are various methods depending on how the child is, staying with them until the sun is up, WIWO until the sun is up, verbal reassurance (or instruction eg "it's night time, go to sleep") from outside the room...many ways to help and support a child whilst they learn.
In the event of a 4.30am WU like you describe the gro clock helps in that there is nothing other than night until the sun is up, by that I mean everything is treated as a NW, no reading books, the child may not rest when you want them to but you wouldn't do day time activities with them either. Sorry honey I know you are doing your best to cope with a difficult night and that this whole transition is hard but reading in the night may actually work against your goal.  If he has an active mind and wants to be up doing things this is only going to reinforce that he can have external stimulus to satisfy his desire for activities when what you need to instill is that it is night time and we sleep.

I would continue with your plan, I'd imagine a nap is needed after such an early start, and another 7.30 BT.  If he is so OT he can't sleep then the next stage is so OT that he can sleep, the crash will come and in some ways a 4.30 WU is better than a 5.30 WU as there's more chance of him going back to sleep, especially if you treat it as a strict NW.


Offline Straffles

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #215 on: December 10, 2014, 00:09:03 am »
Thanks creations thanks so much.

Reading was my only way of stopping the screaming then he did decide he would lie back down with me. Screamed for me to get him up for the day and totally disagreed it was dark and still night time.

Offline Straffles

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #216 on: December 10, 2014, 07:31:14 am »
What else can I do when he wakes early and won't sleep but just screams to get up. And I mean screams.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #217 on: December 10, 2014, 07:38:49 am »
Hun I know the screaming is hard - hugs.  Can I ask how would you deal with a request to eat a big chocolate cake ten minutes before dinner?  (Bear with me here....).  Presumably you would say no, and there might be a screaming tantrum, but you'd still say no right?  Because you are the parent and you know what is best for him?  It's the same with waking up and demanding to get up at 4.30am.  It's not in his best interests and he needs you, the parent, to reinforce the rules, screaming or not.  So that means he may well scream for two hours until 6.30am, we're not saying to ignore him doing that.  But the way you respond is with a consistent lie down, it is time to sleep, it is night time.  Not trying to get the screaming to stop - the screaming is just his way of communicating that he doesn't like the rules.  Seeing the screaming in itself as the problem means you won't ever address the real issue.  In the same way that 'disciplining' a child for having a tantrum (as many people try to do) will never give them the tools to cope with their emotions in a challenging situation.

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #218 on: December 10, 2014, 09:57:36 am »
When my DS was younger I found an article about crying. I wish I'd seen it sooner as it totally changed my understanding and approach. Up until that point I had felt (as the writer said) that it was my job to stop him crying, after reading the article I realised I did not need to stop him crying, that is his voice, his communication and what he has to say matters, he may have his say, his opinion and his complaints - just as an adult may have their say and complaints - I did not need or even desire to shut him up, I didn't want to give him the message that he couldn't have his say. My job was to listen and be there. I thought a lot about how I would treat a very close friend if she was complaining, crying, frustrated. I would *listen* and sympathise, I wouldn't try to stop her getting it off her chest by distracting her with something else, imagine this:
- friend screaming with sadness and frustration: "I'm sick of it, I'm sick of it, he never listens to me, I've had enough of him..."
- me: "shall we go to the cinema? That might distract you."

I tried out a method where instead of trying to stop DS crying I held him, or sat right near him which ever he preferred and made all the 'listening' sounds that I would make to an adult "yes, aha, ahem, mmmm, yes, I hear you, aha" (imagine hearing someone on the phone, you can only hear their 'aha ahum' sounds which tell the caller they are listening). If I thought I had a clue what he was frustrated about I also said this, for instance "I know you want to get up, you're really frustrated it's night time" "yes sweetie, I hear you, you're angry, I know, you want to get up now, I hear you, aha, ahem..."
It turned out my DS had quite a lot on his mind and a lot to say about it...and when he felt fully heard he abated. He seemed different after, he hadn't just stopped crying/screaming with those angry feelings trapped inside him, he had had his full say and was calm in a new way, a heard way.
Something to think about.  Basically I am saying (in many more words) what Katherine has also said, "not trying to get the screaming to stop" and "seeing the screaming in itself as the problem means you won't ever address the real issue".

I will add, there have been a few times my DS has worked himself up so strongly that I have eventually suggested to him we do some breathing together and calm down a little, that I will still listen, he can still have his say, but let's take a breath because I don't want him to get so caught up in the emotion that he can't come out of it or becomes sick.  This too is similar to something I might say to an adult friend. Hysterics are not a great way to off-load the bad feelings, where as crying releases stress and talking about it helps us feel heard.

Although my DS was younger when my understanding and approach to his cries/verbal complaints changed, I truly believe it is never too late.  I also felt much better in myself when I understood this and tried the method, I felt calmer and more able to cope with his complaints because my job was not to stop him.  Previously I'd felt like such a failure, and then caught up in my own sad feelings of failing and guilt, afterwards I felt far more successful, calmer, able to cope.

WRT the gro clock. If you are having difficulty sourcing one, how about a digital timer plugged into a lamp socket?  I've always used a timer with a lamp and it's worked marvellously for us.

Hope you have a good day xx


Offline anna*

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #219 on: December 10, 2014, 10:09:08 am »
^^ totally agree with creations and Katherine. Your job is not to stop him from screaming, but to be there as a reassuring presence but be quite firm that nothing happens - no reading, no lights on, no coming out of the bedroom, no conversation, no singing, nothing else happens until 'morning' (whatever time you decide that is).

If he is regularly waking up at 5, I would set the lights on a timer at 5.30 to begin with. You can sit outside his room or lie on the floor, whatever feels ok to you (for my kids, if I was in the room they would be more distracted and more determined to engage me, hence why I'd stay out of the room and just let them hear my voice). Then when the lights come on signifying morning, you all bright and breezy say 'Oh look! It's morning! NOW we can go downstairs and get breakfast' (or whatever). Once he has gone back to bed (even if not to sleep, just quieted down and seems to be 'getting it' that morning is not negotiable), then you move the timer on the lights forwards by 10 mins every couple of nights until you get to 6.30 or 7 or whatever time you as a family start your day.

Oh and of course loads of praise when he does manage to 'wait' (in whatever form, even if it is just stopping crying) for morning.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 10:19:28 am by anna* »





Offline Straffles

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #220 on: December 10, 2014, 10:51:55 am »
I love what you all say.

It is how I try to parent in general. All the ot tantrums today I tried to do the same. Partner disagrees but my mode of parenting is gentle so I stay soft and listening until tantrum abates. However, I do struggle to keep myself together.

At night or ews I am less able to be this strong as I've been awake so long and so scared. If he does another short night I just won't know what to do to get out of the mess and will be getting scared about the day and how I will manage it. I lost my s**t completely. I will try what you say and have spoken to my partner about it. I just don't know how long I can keep it up, yk?

I'm scared that the routine has gone out the window now.

We had one nnd and now two nds with short nights. He's so ot.

Offline anna*

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #221 on: December 10, 2014, 12:40:11 pm »
Personally, I think he has got himself in the habit of waking early and THAT is what is causing all the OT. It's not about routine tweaking or nap vs no-nap days.... my opinion, it's being totally consistent about morning (and I think it's important to use either a clock or lights on a timer - for a toddler they represent a 'third party' so it's not just his word against yours ;) ) so that he will go back to sleep when he stirs at 4.30-5am, and get the sleep he needs.





Offline Aishi

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #222 on: December 10, 2014, 13:47:56 pm »
First off (((hugs))) hon. I agree with all the pps comments re gro clock, consistency with rules and fact that it sounds more like B is being stubborn about not wanting to go back to sleep bcause he knows that atm hes getting away with it.

fwiw my 4.5yo ds is exacy the same. Hes had a gro clock since two yo and knows exactly what hes supposed to do but goes thru phases when he doesnt (like now). And thats my fault because i dont follow through eg the other day i let him play with his lamp on when there was still one star on clock and he wants to do it every day now. I totally get how hard you find it at that time of the day/ night. Ive been there with this kid since he was a baby. He is KING of ewus! And its hard when youre tired, stressed out or unwell and you have to stick with wiwo!

Hugs. I really feel for you. But try it. Once he gets the hang of it (and he will as long as youre consistent) he may surprise you by sleeping in. And then if he is still ew you can rule out habitual wu if nothing else.
aishi :)

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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #223 on: December 10, 2014, 14:51:01 pm »
I'm scared that the routine has gone out the window now.
Then walk outside, take a deep breath of fresh air, pick it up and bring it back in.
Whatever the routine is, wherever it has gone you can just start again. Today.

I really feel for you. Is there anything you can do to help you relax at night so you get a better sleep? I am so worried about you being awake half the night waiting for him to wake up, you are exhausting yourself by not sleeping. I once had my own suspicions that LOs some how know if we are awake like some kind of signal that it's ok to wake because Mummy is awake so the day must have started.

What's happened today? nap at the usual time and BT 7.30pm?
If he wakes at 4.30am again, if it was me, I'd take my duvet and a pillow in his room lay on the floor and keep telling him it is night.


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Re: 1-0 no idea need help
« Reply #224 on: December 10, 2014, 17:11:40 pm »
Pps have said it all lovely, and in so many brilliant ways.

I agree that Benji is going to ok through this lovely, look after yourself and we'll stay here to help. ((((Hugs)))£ and sleepy vibes for you and DS xxx
~ Naomi ~