Baby will only eat if drowsy/asleep

[kerryt]

Hi all

OK so Ive got a bit of a toughie, DS has always been FF as he would not take to my breast. I expressed for 6 weeks but was not producing enough milk to carry on. About 14 weeks ago he started having 45 min naps and Ive been concentrating all my efforts on extending naps which I can do with great patience and a lot of effort, HTTJ and W2S never worked so I just resettle every time. Anyway my LO seems to never be hungry in the morning for the whole morning till mid afternoon, Im desperate to get him on the EASY routine but these little feeds are driving me nuts, along with extending his naps its all so frustrating 

This is what a typical day for us look like...

E 7 - never finishes more than 2oz (60ml)
A 7:20 -8:30
E 8:30 - 9 eats another 2oz (60ml)
S 9 to 10:30/11:00 (extended nap)
E 11:00 eats about 1-2 oz (30ml-60ml)
A 11:20-12:30
E 12:30 eats another 2-3oz (60ml-90ml)
S 13:00 - 14:30/15:00 (extended nap)
E 15:00 eats around 2/3 oz (60ml-90ml)
A 15:20 - 16:30
E 16:30 eats about 2/3 oz (60ml-90ml)
S 17:00 - 17:30
A 17:30 -19:00
E 19:00 eats 5oz (150ml)
S 19:30/20:00
E 23:00 dream Feed (which he wakes up for now so I prepare it 10 mins before)
S 23:00 - 3:00
E 3:00 50z (150ml)


He seems to latch on and suck perfectly when hes drowsy or asleep, when hes awake he puts his hands in his mouth while I try feed him, or squeezes the teat and pushes away bottle. He pushes the bottle in and out, its almost like a game to him. I try feeding him in a quiet dark room, Ive taken him to the Doctor, he suggested it may be infant reflux so prescribed infant gaviscon, Ive changed his formula, Ive used 4 different bottles/teats, Ive tried giving him teething granules and teething gel before a feed.... None of these have helped.

He cries as though he is starving throughout the day and sucks on the bottle so rapidly the first few seconds then stops abruptly and then its a battle from that point on to get anything in him.

Please has anyone had this problem with their LO?

[Lolly]

Battling to get a feed in? Definitly been there done that . Ok so the behaviour you are describing on the bottle could well be reflux - that's how my DD particularly was at her worst but she would go 4 hours+ on 2oz at 9 weeks old. Taking small feeds quite often is also a very common reflux thing - they drink to soothe their throats but don't take a full feed bacause it hurts.

How long has he been on gaviscon for and how many times a day do you give it? My two were both on gaviscon for a while but it doesn't seem to work for many babies for more than a short while. We changed to a reflux formula - which formula is your LO on now? We also needed meds for both kids.

If your Dr suspects reflux then I would take him back and let them know the gaviscon isn't helping. You Dr may be able to prescribe ranitadine/ zantac which is the usual starting place or they may need to refer you to a peadiatrician.

You won't really be able to sort feeding and sleep out properly until the reflux is under control - however, we are very good 'mummy of a refluxer' hand holders around here while you get things sorted. {{HUGS}} byt he way

Laura

[kerryt]

Hi lolly

Thank you so much for your reply:-)

I'm not 100% sure if its reflux, the doctor only prescribed me Gaviscon because I said sometimes when he spits up it shoots out his mouth rather than dribbles out his mouth. He doesn't seem to spit up as much now but I don't think he drinks enough to do that.

May I ask what your LO's behaviour was like with reflux? Did they also only eat when drowsy/asleep? But its strange because he will finish a whole bottle for his dream feed and his bedtime feed, burp and go straight down and not seem as if hes in any discomfort.

I tried the gaviscon during the day for about 3 days but it didnt make a difference at all, he still reacted the same way with his daytime feeds.

A health visitor suggested that the 3am feed is messing his morning feed up because when he was about 2 months he used to eat at 7pm, go to sleep by 9pm then only wake for his next feed at 2am. So she thinks somewhere along the line hes started eating that 3am feed instead of missing it and having the morning feed. Im too scared to try prevent him from eating that 3am feed because hes supposed to be on 210ml (7oz) for his weight and age but he barely manages to finish 150ml (5oz). So hes waking up for that 3am because he wont take anymore during the day. So Im just worried that if he still reacts the same to the daytime feeds without that 3am feed he is going to start dropping in weight:-(

[MummyToBen]

It also sounds like it might be reflux to me.  Infant gavsicon didn't really help my lo very much at all until he was also put on a medication to decrease the amount of acid in his stomach.  (Gaviscon for infants is nothing like adult gaviscon - it is just a feed thickener rather than helping to soothe the burning pain).  My lo used to take his feed MUCH easier if he was asleep of falling asleep, and it is common in reflux babies. 

Does he ever spit up a long while after a feed, and does it have a cottage cheese in water consistency?

xx

[L76]

Hi

I was just about to post exactly the same as you! I have the identical problem with feeding really low amounts during the day but drinking the full bottle at 7pm, 10pm and in the night (around 2am).

Some feeds are 2oz, most average at 3-4oz at best. He's coming up 12 weeks now.
There was a time when he'd drink 5-6oz at every feed but not any more. He doesn't seem bothered though. Still goes to sleep fine, doesn't cry in hunger.

He did drop percentiles about 4 weeks ago so the doctor is monitoring his weight gain but he did put on the right amount over the last few weeks and when I tot up the total amount in a day, it works out to about 25-30oz.

But he does do exactly the same as your LO. Eat a bit then push the bottle away, play with the teat and generally refuse any more. Especially if I take him off to burp him - there is no chance of me getting it back in his mouth!

We also looked into reflux, had him on meds, no difference, tried haf formula, no difference so are none the wiser. Am hoping he is getting enough milk and will grow out of it!

[Rose.]

Hi,

My son, 3 months, has similar behaviour (I just posted about it, actually!).

He will take about 2 oz and then pull/arch/extend his body away from the bottle. So I used to end up getting him to sleep on me and then I'd slip the nipple in and he would often finish the bottle. Very frustrating. And very scary when he too started to slip in his percentiles of growth. The dream feed was the only good feed.

Recently I have discovered that if he's awake and 'protesting' the bottle, if I hold him in one arm and start pacing the floor I can get 1-2 more ounces into him.

If I'm lucky I can avoid having to 'walk to feed him' by catching him at the end of a nap to feed him. If I am so lucky he will down a whole 4 oz in 12 min.  One last strategy: I have also tried to get him to sleep in his crib after feeding him only 2 oz. Then I wait 10 min and go back in and 'dream feed' him the rest of his bottle. This has worked for me several times.

My son has been diagnosed with acid reflux by two pediatricians based on anecdotal comments from me. He is on Zantac and Prevacid. I think the Prevacid is helping a bit but this 'walking to feed' has made a huge difference.

However, my son still only consumes about 25 oz. per day. He has recently dropped one of the two night feeds he used to have (in addition to the dream feed). So I am curious although a bit off topic: your baby seems to sleep well at night; if a baby was truly starving for food, wouldn't it wake up more at night?? Or can a baby rather sleep than eat at this stage?

[Lolly]

For reflux babies feeding while asleep/ too drowsy to notice is very common. For some, night feeds/ dreamfeeds is the only way to get calories while things are bad.

My two have both been quite different with sleep - DS was terrible from the start, but DD has been a great napper and a good night sleeper from the start. Some babies get so tired not napping during the day that they do sleep at night.

Both my two displayed exactly the feeding behaviours a lot of you are describing until we got things under control. They would eat about 2oz hungrily and happily then suddenly stop and refuse any more. I did all the tricks of walking distraction etc but they were just not happy to eat more than 2oz. They both screamed/ arched etc when I tried to get more in them. With DS we learnt not to stop to wind him as he would not go back on, we had to let him stop when he was ready - and keep him very still for a while after a feed with both of us covered in towels .

If your refluxer isn't eating happily then I would think the reflux isn't under control yet. Those of you on normal/HAF formulas have you tried thickening the feeds? This is combination with meds is often the thing that makes a big difference for a lot of refluxers.

Rose - both my kids only averaged around 25oz a day when they were on milk only and both gained weight just fine. DD in particular has stayed on the 91st centile on that much milk. They seem to get what they need - amazingly enough. Are you spacing the zantac and prevacid? I'm sure someone has mentioned it - hopefully your Dr but if they are given within 4 hours I think it is the zantac stops the prevacid working so well.

Laura

[L76]

Hi

Well I tried the walking around today Rose!

He woke in the night at 2:30am and ate the full 6oz bottle. Then slept til 07:20 and you'd think he'd of woke hungry! Nope, not bothered and wasn't desperate for it at all. I gave him the bottle in my bed at 07:40 and I think he took about 2.5oz. So I burped him and then tried again. No such luck. So I got up and started walking round my room and bang, he took another 1.5oz so 4oz in total.

Laura - everytime I read your posts I begin questionning myself again! I really had decided there was nothing wrong with DS at all but then I read your experiences and start wondering again. But when I think back to DD she was never desperate for milk either (although I bf her). He doesn't exactly scream when I try to give more, just push the teat out and turn his head - would this also be the actions if full?

What does your DS do Kerry?

[Rose.]

Laura, thank you for the tip about the Zantac. I did NOT know that! And I was giving him Zantac three hours after the prevacid.

How complicated this all gets.

My doctor told me to give the Prevacid first thing in the morning. Our pharmacist said to just give it at the same time each day. We've been giving it at 4pm since that's when we bought it! Should we switch to morning?

[MummyToBen]

Personally I would give the prevacid nearer to bedtime - it is the stronger drug and so will help keep the acid under control over nightime (the longest stretch when your lo is lay on their back, and so the worst time for acid to come back up).  What is your doseage? 

My doctor told us to give the prevacid in the morning too - but through trial and error we split the dose and gave it three times throughout the day (first thing in the morning - 30 minutes before a feed, then 11.30am, then a dream medicine at 10pm).  But obviously you have to work it around your feeding/sleeping routine.  It might even be worth posting a separate thread about this on the reflux board - as other Mum's will be able to help you figure out how to maximise the effectiveness of the medication. 

Just checking - did your GP tell you to give the prevacid on an empty stomach (or as empty as possible) and then wait 30 minutes before feeding?  That makes a big difference to how the drug works

xxx

[Rose.]

Hi,

The doctor didn't give me any directions about giving the Prevacid.

30 min before a feed is tricky as 30 min is about all the A time my little guy can handle before getting tired. However, I do give a bottle just before bed so maybe 30 min before that is a good time.

He has, fortunately, slept well at night - waking only to eat. It used to be twice a night (+ dream feed) but now it's just once most nights. Should I switch to morning to help with daytime feeds?

We are going to be using the Bumbo within a week I think and I hope that will help with his reflux.

[Lolly]

Personally I would leave the dose where it is - it could be that because you are giving it late afternoon it is actually helping the nights. Can you/ do you give the zantac in the morning? Maybe others will think differently.

A word of warning with the bumbo - really not so good for refluxers! I found with both my kids if they went in it too soon after eating we tended to see the milk again. I think that although they are upright because of the way the seat is shaped it pushes their stomaches up more - great for getting wind up though . As they got bigger it wasn't so bad, I was able to use it woth both from about 8/9 weeks for a few mins as they were lifing their heads when they were born but it was probably closer to 6 months before they weren't sick in it.

Laura

[MummyToBen]

Yes, if you are giving it late afternoon and you feel that it is working ok til the morning then that is probably worth sticking with - I thought you had said that the doctor was saying to change it to the morning, which is why I mentioned it.  I think that it's helpful to make sure that most of the 24 hours is 'covered' by the meds, so spacing it out as best you can

xx

[kerryt]

Wow so this is quite common then...

Rose that routine is generally what usually happens in a day but lately hes been waking up at 2:30am for a feed, then again just before 5am but then the 5am feed he will only eat 1-2oz and wake up and stop eating and playing with the bottle. I have actually now held him off till 3am for the first morning feed then I really try persevere and get him to finish all of the bottle, then he lasts a bit longer. If he does wake up at 7am he also has half his bottle and then stops and starts playing and I feed him the rest in dribs and drabs. But for the past few days Ive been trying to hold him off eating in little bits and if he doesnt finish a bottle then I wait till his scheduled feed and he seems to eat most of his bottle now but there are still 2 or 3 feeds that are still a battle. The morning feed is the worst!

Claire: he does spit up sometimes even 2 hours after a feed and it is a cottage cheese, curdled like consistency but I was speaking to a friend of mine and her son is my LO's age and she says he does that too but does not have reflux.

Leanne: My boy is also picking up weight steadily so Im also hoping this is just a phase

Rose: I find that walking while feeding (I actually pop him in a sling) helps tremendously!

Ladies please tell me, does reflux just start out of the blue or is it from day 1? And does it always happen with EVERY feed without fail? I just keep going round in circles with this because sometimes I am certain its reflux then it seems to get a bit better then it goes back to him refusing the bottle! I just dont know what to think anymore:-(

[Rose.]

Ladies please tell me, does reflux just start out of the blue or is it from day 1? And does it always happen with EVERY feed without fail? I just keep going round in circles with this because sometimes I am certain its reflux then it seems to get a bit better then it goes back to him refusing the bottle! I just dont know what to think anymore:-(

I hear you. Reflux sure is mysterious. Sometimes my son eats well, sometimes just 2oz and sometimes he outright refuses to eat. I do not get how he can go 4 h on 2oz. I have seen him refuse to eat flat out after 4 h even though he is clearly hungry.

My daughter who is now 5 was also  diagnosed with it. With her we got her to eat by putting in a pacifier to get her to suck and then pulling it out and quickly switching it with the bottle. We did this over and over again and eventually she would just start eating (probably because she got drowsy - a very sleepy child who I think was probably an angel child but with reflux). She got better around 13-14 weeks too and this coincided with us taking her to a chiropractor for treatment of reflux (strange but I had read about this on the internet). I don't know if the chiropractor helped but by 4 months she was eating relatively well.  We took our son to the same chiropractor when he was 5 weeks old but it didn't make a difference. I am thinking of taking him back.

I am very frustrated with this whole thing too. My son is on Zantac and Prevacid and it's like these things are making no dent at all. We also cannot seem to get him on a formula that agrees with him. I used to breastfeed him but switched to bottlefeeding with pumped milk at week 8 because he seemed to eat better with the bottle. When breastfeeding he would take only half a feed and then I would give the other half after his A time. When I switched breasts he would start to fuss and I was doing this in the middle of most feeds (I had supply issues). With a bottle he would take an entire feed... and then around week 10 or 11 he started taking only half feeds from the bottle too.... I am hoping he is like my daughter and outgrows this sooner rather than later.