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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Florena49 on December 28, 2014, 22:05:50 pm
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Ok so after my last very long post i think this needs summarising really and now we are more less on one nap. Im starting to think that the problem is me! The childminder doesnt seem to have a problem getting him to nap, my husband manages to do that just fine. But when it comes to me getting him to nap, all hell breaks loose.
Our routine looks like this
7
11.50/12 nap
If im putting him to sleep he will scream and scream until he gets OT and he has a short nap which i have to resettle. Today with hubby he settled in his cot and slept for 1.50 mins!
bT was 7
He woke at 10pm i took him in bed with me, i need sleep i have work tomorrow.
I debated maybe he is not ready for one nap, so the other day he only had 1 hour nap and then i gave him 20 min nap in the pm, well he woke every 50 mins for the first 3 hours and then was awake screaming, trying to fall asleep between 3-5 and was up for the day at 7. Im just not sure two naps actually work for us.
Although he sleeps with me some nights, i try not to feed him at all in the night, so i dont think feeding is a problem. Is there anything that i can do with his routine, i mean he has never slept longer than a 4 hour stretch! I need some sort of plan for when we are back from holidays in January, as Os will be finally moving into his own room, so no sleeping next to mummy and her growing tum.
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Hi :)
Do you think he maybe just has a lot he wants to tell you? Just thinking if CM and DH have no problem getting him down for a nap calmly and on time, maybe he didn't want to tell them everything but when you put him for his nap he has so much to 'say'? Have you tried *not* trying to get him to sleep but instead just listening, really listening? Imagine listening to a friend who wants to tell you something exciting or miserable or frustrating or wonderful, you listen carefully and keep making sounds to show you are listening, "aha" "oh yes" "ok" "I hear you" "hmm, ahem". When I did this for my DS it made a massive difference. Initially he seemed to cry for longer but I think that's because he had such a back-log of stuff he needed to tell me. After the first couple of times he seemed to really feel 'heard' and settled down for sleep much faster than if I'd continued to try to calm/sooth/stop him crying/get him to sleep.
I realise you want/need him to sleep on time for his nap so he doesn't get OT but as he is making his nap late anyway then maybe just accept that for a few days whilst he gets it all off his chest?
I haven't read your last thread but just going from here I'd say stick to set nap and BT regardless of how long he sleeps and if he's really tired perhaps go for EBT 15 - 30 min earlier than regular BT.
If coming into your bed is a regular habit and if it's linked to his 4hr stretches of sleep then a plan for moving towards independent sleep will be needed - a 4hr stretch of sleep isn't usually down to routine but habit/props.
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Hi Creations
Well that is a different perspective, no i havent thought about it at all, i think im just programmed to tr and get him to sleep on time. I will certainly give it a go and more of an opportunity to get it out of his system before naps.
Sleeping with me is a recent thing for us, whilst the house is being refurbished. For most pf his life he slept in his own room in his cotbed.
The reason i think its routine related is the awake and usually screaming episodes that we have in the night.
So last night he went to bed at 7, woke at 10,i just put him doen in my bed and he fell asleep, then woke at 2.15-and wa awake tryibg to go to sleep and crying in between until 3.30. I didnt feed him, as usually it makes no difference at all, have tried calpol straight away, nope nothing. And then he woke at 5.30, i fed him then and he went back to sleep util Bout 7.
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Anything else at all which may be causing the NWs? Too cold/too warm?
Are you convinced the screaming episodes at night are due to something other than his ability to sleep independently and self settle in the night? See it sounds to me, if a LO hasn't slept for longer than 4hrs, ever, then he has a difficulty in settling/transitioning at that wake up and needs you there to help him re-settle. Is it you or DH or both who usually go to him in the night? Does it make a difference?
To further the idea of the different perspective though - it could be he still has a lot to say, so whilst he sleeps at night when he is super tired, as soon as he is in lighter sleep and wakes up he returns to trying to communicate something to you.
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I cant be certain, but just seems that he is really trying to fall asleep, he lays down himself and can be quiet for a couple of minutes and then will start up again, and there really is nothibg i can do to help, i tried feeding him during that time, but that doesnt help either, which is unusual really.
How would I help him transition? I know it would be best if it was in the cot and i would be happy to do that once he moves out of our room. It makes no difference whether itsy husband or I who go to him, he will just continue crying.
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Perhaps it's something to tackle fully once he's in his own room then.
Meanwhile, maybe try a W2S when you go to bed, slightly disturb him to kick start a new sleep cycle and see if this can bring him past the 4 hr WU mark. You might also try some reassuring words whilst he is asleep, that he is safe, you love him, and to have happy dreams and good sleep.
Have you just gone to the 1 nap very recently after a long transition period?
Just so you know you are not alone we had an awful 2-1 transition here. DS had slept beautifully 2hrs every day with a CN but when we moved to 1 nap he only slept 20 mins at a time. I had to W2S every 19 mins to prevent full wake up. If he did fully wake it was 20 mins of screaming blue murder whilst I held him and repeatedly told him to go back to sleep. We did eventually get our 2hr nap back but it felt like hard work (and 2 naps were no longer any good for him).
Sorry it's so hard.
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I think u are right creations he needs to be in his room at the moment it is torture for him as he can see our bed and as soon as he is up he wants to go there. I will certainly try W2s if i can avoid one waking for now thay would be great. We have been on one nap for about a month, it has been rough, but 2 naps just dont work anymore and a monster nap doesnt work for him either. He had 2.30 one of the days and he was up every 2 hours for most of the night.
Once he is in his room, what is the best thing to do? wi/wo?
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he can see our bed and as soon as he is up he wants to go there
Sounds like he's really in the habit of coming to your bed in the night, a new room is a good time to start a new 'rule' that he sleeps in his own bed all night, I don't think you're under any illusions that having a new room will solve this habit though, are you?
Once he is in his room, what is the best thing to do?
The best thing to do is something *you* can stick with. Changing habits is really more about your approach and attitude than it is his ability to change. He can do it so long as you can - and do. So yes it may be WI/WO or it may be GW but I think the key is to set your own mind straight and firm from the off and not deviate.
I always go with what I feel is the gentlest and least painful route (for myself as much as DS because i know i have to follow through) so I'd likely start with WI/WO but with a view to staying in the room for a GW if needed. If the only way to keep him in his room in his own bed is to sleep in there yourself (initially) then I'd do that, always keeping in mind that it is part of a process and that process is constantly moving forward towards independence. It may well involve a number of sleepless nights for you which isn't great if you need to be rested enough for work, but bringing him into your own bed for the sake of your own sleep will only perpetuate the problem for longer.
It's something to only tackle when you feel totally ready for it.
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Thank you Creations, honestly im under no illusion, i know he isnt just going to start sleeping in his cot just because he is in his room and i know it will be a week or so of sleepless nights before we get somewhere, we are both ready for that really. If he slept all night in our bed that would be different but he doesnt.
i kept some leave for myself from work for january, so i can deal with this.
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Well babies amaze us dont they. i think we might need some routine advise. We are still at grandparents so he is still sleeping with me.
This was our day yesterday
8.25wu
1.20nap-3.30
8.30
I had to wake him from his nap, thats a first!
Bt was 8.30 and the nugget slept until 3! He woke at 3 and it took me a good 30 mins to her him to sleep, je then woke at 5.30 and 7.10 and finally up for the day at 8.30
Recently he has been sleeping poorly in the morning hours, waking often and difficult to settle and i cant work out whether its too much sleep or something else.
I guess if i can get his routine a bit more right the moving to his cot will be a tad easier.
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How old is he now?
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He is 1.2 will be 15 months on the 25 jan
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The EASY you posted previously was very similar in terms of number or hours sleep in 24 but it was a 7-7 day. Now more like 8.30 - 8.30 day, is that because you are away on holiday or because you are shifting nap and BT based on morning WU time?
Have you tried set nap and BT?
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Hi Creations,
I think its because we are away and there is a 2 hours difference, since we got here he has been waking at this time so technically it is 6.30 uk time.
Its been failry consistant in terms of wake up time so it kind of work like set naps at the moment, dont know what will happen when we come back though of course.
7-7 works in the Uk because we have to get to the childminders an get ourselves to work on time
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OK. I was going to suggest set times but it seems you are basically on set times anyway.
The stirring in the early hours might stop or improve once he's back home and in his own room (with black out?). I would keep his nap set to 2hrs for now and perhaps not let him sleep past that.
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Thank you will persevere. What if his nap is 1.30 should i adjust BT or stick to 8.30 BT still?
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I would just stick to set nap and BT now. For on holiday do the 8.30 1.30 8.30 routine it looks like you have then back to the 7-7 routine when you are back home.
If you stick with the routine for now you might begin to see where his sleep needs have/are changing. For instance if you have to wake him up from every nap or if you have to wake him in the morning or if the NWs begin to look more like UT.
hth
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Thank you Creations, i know what you mean its the only way to figure out whats up.
Seems our night are identical though
Yesterday was this:
8.30wu
1.25nap-3.05
8.20BT
I stretched him as long as I could for BT a bit more difficult to settle, but he still slept until 2.45,
And then it was a nightmare as it is everynight. WUs
2.45,4.05,7.18 all three time difficult to resettle, took me 50 mins second time. He was up for the day at 7.18, but i left him to it, as he wasnt crying, so he fell asleep, u fortunately so did I and only up at 9.15 today!
Im just so pleased with te first long stretch of sleep because it is a huge improvement, from not sleepibg longer that 4 hours.
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So your day may be a little off due to the later WU. I'd stick to the nap and BTs regardless. If he's resistant to the nap try again 15 min later but don't let him sleep past 3.30 (ie what would have been 2 hrs but if he resists the nap and sleeps late you still get him up).
So - two nights of 5-6 hr stretches seems quite good considering his usual 4hr stretch. Must admit I'm at a bit of a loss as to why he is always waking in the early hours and can only think that he is just in a lighter sleep and actually needs to be in his own bed so he isn't disturbed by your sleep cycle transitions when he is in his lighter sleep. The early hours are always harder to sleep through so it may not be taking much to disturb him yk? Hard to say without actually trying him in his own room.
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Settled at 1.30 with my mum no problem, slept for 1.30mins too. Was alittle too tired for BT, but settled at 8.35 and asleep for now anyway, heres hoping he can repeat his long stretch again. He has been poorly and still has a snotty nose, so i was qondering that it might be disturbing him in the early hours as he is having difficulty breathing. I guess will find out when the cold fully goes.
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Hope you have a good night. Try to get some rest yourself too during that long stretch of sleep x
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It is the day tomorrow, Oskars room is ready and he will be having his nap in his cot in his room tomorrow hopefully. We will play in his roo in the morning, sort out his book etc, so he gets used to spending time there.
We are sticking to
7wu
12nap
7BT
He is t sleeping as well as he has been at my mums and dads though, not sure why, but we have lost the 6-7 hour stretch, but at least we got rid of the snotty nose and a cough, so i know there is nothing bothering him.
Im about ti snuggle with him in bed, hopefully he will ne sleeping in his cot tomorrow night.
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Good luck!
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We are still alive, i mean this is tough going. It turned that we dont have a problem with getting him to sleep in his cot at all, we have an issue with feeding at night, which i didn't see as an issue at all, as so e nights he would settle without any feeds at all and other nights he would have 1 feed. I reckon we slept on and off for About 4 hours the first night. The boy has stamina! We only lasted until 1 and then he came in with us but that made no difference at all as what he wanted was milky not to be in bed with us. So we decide that we cant win it all straight away, we cant have him going to bed in his new room in his cot, stay there all night and not have any feeds. So we are going with no milky, going to bed in his cot and if he ends up in our bed with dad! Then thays how it is. Having me in bed isnt working at a at the moment, as milk hasn't gone yet and obviously i still smell of milky, so he settles much better with dad. Slept better last night, less crying overall, more sleep, hopefully better by the weekend. We are a family of zombies at the moment and both have busy weeks at work this week.
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Oh dear, I can well imagine how tired everyone is. Sorry that you all have to work on top of having bad nights :(
So, the plan now is no milk but he can still come into your bed with Daddy. I can understand how this has come about because everyone is so exhausted, but (how to break it gently) being unable to self settle in the night without relying on some sort of prop (whether milk or co-sleeping) could be more the issue than needing milk. I doubt any LOs over 1yo are waking from hunger so I'd say it's prop dependency. The thing is, he may well be able to settle down to sleep bringing him to bed with Daddy but he isn't learning to self settle in the night which I imagine is going to remain an issue until it's tackled. Sorry, I don't like to be the bearer of tricky news but in your position I think I'd rather know than not know - yk?
If bringing him in to co-sleep is what you are all happy with for now then continue.
I suppose the thing to decide is if you prefer a few nights of awful sleep whilst you teach him to stay in his own bed and self settle or if you prefer longer term disturbed-but-not-quite-so-disturbed sleep when he wakes and needs to be brought in to co-sleep.
It's totally your choice as a family.
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I hear what you are saying and ideally yes we would want him to stay in his cot all night, if we had a week of being at home this is exactly what we would do, be it that it would be tough on us.
He wont settle with me in bed at all, i have to leave, as soon as he sees me, he goes for milky and he gest very upset he settles much better with daddy.
He has slept in his room in the cot sonce he was 4 months, but he has never been a good sleeper, but the skills of settling at night are there somewhere as he has done it before.
I guess i dont even know if cosleeping is a prop, he doesnt settle that easily in bed and the first night he has spent most of the night crying with stints of sleep in between. Webare also trying to stick to some sort of routine during tje day but its not easy really and he is off to childminders tomorrow so by the end of the day I will have an exhausted child. Zombieland is signing off now, we are literally heading to bed :(
We are so tired we dont een have a plan
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Oh I'm so sorry for you :-*
Maybe it is not the co-sleeping which is the prop, but rather it is needing the comfort of Mummy (milk because that's how he finds the most comfort with you) or Daddy (clearly not milk because he finds comfort from Daddy in a different way), due to an inability to self settle when he wakes in the night. I can understand this, my DS has never been able to sleep in my bed, we never co-slept, he wouldn't AP in arms after about 10wks (nightmare!) and during times of needing extra comfort it has been a real struggle, he wants and needs to be in his own bed to sleep and to sleep well but he wants the reassurance of being with me, but me being in his room stops him sleeping and him being in with me stops us both sleeping...basically no answer.
When you have some energy do you want to post your current routine?
At these times I think you can only do what you can do, one day at a time and rest whenever possible. hugs x
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Hi Creations
As ever thank you, i absolutely agree with you that it would be great to do all at ones, but with out work and my husbands work and university, we simply need some sleep.
Last night was better, he was a little OT, i think the last couple of nights are catching uo with him, so he woke a few times within the first couple of hours, settled in his cot no problem, then i could hear him cry out and settle himself, about 10.30 i was chucked out of bed and dad took Oskar in, he settled very quickly, unlike the other nights and slept until nearly 3, so we decided to see whether he would settle with me, he wanted to, but i think habitually he was reaching for milky, but there was no hysterical crying last night, he was a little upset, but settled within 20 mins and we woke at 7 this morning.
Generally i stick to
7wu
12nap-1.30
7BT
Today he woke at 6.55, i dobt adjust his nap time in these cases i still go for 12 nap
He has been having 1.30-1.40 min nap, so not 2 hours, but i still do 7BT.
We are still zombi like but at least managed to get some sleep each and Os seems to be brighter today.
We would like him to sleep in his cot and would like to do it soon, necause the baby is due in July and my bump is growing and i can only stand over the cot for so long.
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Good to hear you all got a bit of sleep at least.
Routine wise it looks good, I mean there is nothing glaring, but then there wasn't before either was there... just this problem of never sleeping more than 4hrs.
The only thing I wonder is if he is now taking less than the 2hr nap perhaps moving his nap just a touch later may help, 10 or 15 mins, so that his A time to BT is not getting too long. Still set nap and BT but just set at a slightly later nap, then BT stays the same.
What do you think?
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Honestly happy to try anything really
So would we do
7wu
12.15nap
7BT
I mean today and to orrow are out because it just isnt working recently at the childminders. But come thursday he is at home with me and we start all over again trying to reestablish the routine. I hoping the settling in the night will get better by friday and we can try ad keep him in his cot over the weekend.
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Yes, obviously you need to play it by ear and go with the flow a bit because you've all been away, come home, back to day care...it's quite a lot for all of you isn't it?
Hope the rest of the week holds at least some sleep for everyone x
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I guess it is always like this for us, we also have major renovations in the house and we travel a fair bit back and forth, so this os nothing new, but since we moved at the end of September its been no stop and i think its catching up with all of us and of course another baby on the way.)
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Well he has been a little darling in the night. He had stupid sleep, well actually 2 short sleeps at the childminder and his second sleep ended at 3.30, it was only 40 minutes, so he didnt settle for bed until 7.30
I anticipated stupid waking but this is what happened
7.30bt
Woke at 10.30 came to bed and slept till 6! I told him it was sleepy time still and he went back to sleep until 7.15!
No crying in the night, no trying to find boobie, nothing.
I guess next step would be to keep him in his cot, we just managed to catch up on sleep, will see when best to start on that, but dont want to drag it out.
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Sounds good!! What a great boy to go back to sleep until 7.15 :)
I might have asked this before, can you try a W2S when you go to bed? It may get him through that 10.30 NW. Just tuck him in or give a light nudge until he makes a movement which will indicate he has shifted to a new sleep cycle.
The other thing you might try is some reassuring words at that time, the kind of thing you'd say at BT, yk have a nice sleep, I love you, kind of thing.
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I know U couldnt believe it myself tbh, i could see he wasnt all that sleepy and it took him a few minutes of mumbling to himself to ge to sleep, and im sure its because of the two nap day and an early first nap yesterday. I will try w2s as soon as we start getting him to stay in his cot all night. Although his room is ready it is pretty empty there and his furniture will arrive on monday, hopefully it will be a bit more welcoming and less empty for him. Good idea i will try the reassuring words, i guess a bit like sleep talk?
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Yes, I mean you could do a proper sleep talk script if you know what you're doing, focusing on his comfort and happiness to sleep in his own bed/cot, happiness to go back to sleep when it is still dark and have restful sleep. I wouldn't be able to advise on a script though as I never read the book. I do find reassuring words seem to help DS in a general way even without a ST script.
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Ok ill hve a look, i would be scared to wake him with a script a couple of words souds better.
Is there a regression generally in the first week of Ny changes? Because last noght wa as bad as night 2! ;(
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I think when there is so much going on there is bound to be sleep disturbance. The difficult part to making even more changes is to choose when. You can't do it when you are all exhausted, but disturbed nights are going to continue to make you all tired.
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I can see a little bit of a pattern, every time he has rubbish sleep duribg the day we get struggles in the morning, around 5.30ish. So generally
He goes to bed at 7-7.15
Wakes around 11.30 husband takes him to bed, then he wakes around 5.30 and struggles to go back to sleep, but generally goes back to sleep until 7.
All the furniture and the blind arrive next week, so from thirsday we will be trying to keep him in his cot for the night and see ifthe patter changes
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I think you're actually doing great to have found a routine which gets you all some sleep for now :)
Can you try to put him down to bed 15-30 min earlier if he's had rubbish sleep in the day? It may help to prevent the 5.30am WU.
Blinds should help, mine will still wake at 5/5.30 if there is even a hint of morning light, it amazes me, especially in the winter where everyone would consider it still dark at that time but mine just knows the sun is on it's way...even though it's still dark when we head out for nursery at 8.20am!
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I must say im rather eased with the progress and how quickly he got used to no boobie and as lovely as breastfeeding is he just wanted comfort. I can see so many benefits to this. He eats so well during the day now and we cuddle more and all sleep better.
You are right about the blind and for us its not actually the darkness its more the need not to have the distractions. We usually watch out of the window and spot the dogs with Os so as soon as we are in his bedroom thats what he wants to do and of course he doesnt know when to stop, so this could go on for a while! Blind would really help with that and pulling the blind down has always been the signal for sleep.
He will settle 15 min early on those days, but sometime its near to impossible time wise. On the days when he is at the childminders i pick him up at 5 and we still have dinner and bath to do, and usually its ok unless we get stuck in traffic. On days he is with me its not a problem at all, but generally he either sleeps ok or i manage to resettle him, so no problem there.
Yesterday he had a monster nap over 2 hours, and we paid for it in the night, he really struggled to go to sleep in the early hours. So long nap doesnt work either or at least I havent figured out when to do BT if he has a long nap.
Today he woke at 7.10
Nap 12.20-woke after 30 mins, still asleep now though.
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I think we meed some help with our routine.
We have been sticking to
7 wu
12 nap
7bt
But in the last week Os wakes in the first couple of hours and then around 5.30-6am, and as before it was easy to resettle him now it is impossible to do that in the morning
Yesterday way
Nap 12-2 (i had to resettle him, he was Ot as morning hours were messy)
7.15 BT it wasnt as easy as usual
to settle him
He woke at 10.30pm and 6am and stayed in bed with us clapping his hands and laughing, my husband got him up at 7, so by the time its nap ti e at 12 he would have been awake for 6 hours.
Im not prepared to wake at 6 every morning but im not sure whether its the first a time ir the a time to BT that is the problem.
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How about move the nap 15 mins later and keep BT as it is, see how it goes for several days and look again?
As a heads up, I think he's around 15 months now, yes? You could be moving towards the 18 month regression which for some is as early as 15/16 months. Even if you get the routine perfect in the next couple of weeks/month you could see it go haywire again soon after and for no other reason than developmental/age.
He seems to be getting a longer stretch of sleep at night though I think. If he is waking early hours then sleeping until 5.30/6 this seems to be quite an improvement! Any regularity to the early evening NWs?
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He is 15 months now, oh no kust when things seems to be getting better!
Yes we are gettibg a longer stretch and he is in his cot for his nap and im half way out of the room too, so we are makibg huge progress.
Went for a nap at 12.13 was tired, bless him, but settled within seconds.
When he has 1.30 nap and BT at 7 he does a loger stretch to start with, but with a 2 hour nap he will do 2-3 hours and then wake, but will then sleep until 5.30-6 like he did this morn.
So im wondering if he needs more A time after a 2 hour nap too. It seems he cant manage 14 hours sleep in 24 hours, its always 13-13.5
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OK. So either cap his nap at 1hr 30 or on the days he has a 2hr nap try a later BT. I like set nap and BT at this age, I think it works best for most toddlers so you might want to move BT 15-30 mins later regardless of nap length. So there's a couple of options there to try or to choose from, whichever you feel is going to suit him. I know for instance mine was much better with a 2hr nap even though this eventually led to a much later BT, capping just didn't work for him but it works great for others. See what suits him best.
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Thank u Creations if we get a good nap, he is still asleep in his cot, will try a later BT today and see if that makes a difference to the morning wakings. Keep u posted. He is miserable when i wake him, i dont think he will appreciate the capped nap.
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Well he was asleep at 7.25 last night, but woke at 8.10 and then a couple of more times, which is very unusual, but woke at 6.40 compared to 5.30 or 6! So theres an improvement there. I think we will keep the later BT for now and see if the actual night sleep improves.
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The later BT seems to help, although too early to tell on one night, but some times the early NWs are a bit of OT but something they can get used to because overall the later BT is helping them sleep longer/better.
I hope you continue to see improvement. FX.
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We had sone terrible nights this week. oskar went to the childminders as usual, but he refused to nap there! He didnt have any sleep all day, wouldnt fall asleep in the pram or car. Didnt fall asleep on the way back either when my dh picked him up. So yesterday was the first day where i have managed to establish hos routine again. I have no idea how he stayed up all day!
Yesterday was
7wu
12.10nap-1.45
7BT
He was up at 6.40 this morning. And he is back to waking around 5 and struggling to sleep, he was just lying there awake, playin with my hair ((
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Hmm.. apart from waking early is he sleeping better at night now? Previously you said he hadn't slept longer than 4hrs his whole life, then we saw a few nights of a longer stretch, is he now sleeping through from BT to the morning WU (even if that is 5am)? Or are there still NWs too?
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I wish, generally we have 2 wakings, sometimes 1. We cant seem to het a long stretch at the beginning of the night. So he might wake a couple of hourse after Bt and then sleep until morning with us.
Woke at 6.40
Put down for nap at 12.15 As usual, a bit of crying going on there, but settled within a couple of minutes, im still in his room, but at the door now! I like the set naps if we had consistant wu in the morning, otherwise i have no idea if he is OT for example today, or what was that crying all about.
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Sorry honey. The only thing I can think to move forward is to get him sleeping in his own bed all night, to self settle when he wakes and stay in his own bed. My thought is that he comes into a light sleep, or a cycle transition and pulls himself out of sleep all the way to fully awake so he can come to your bed.
I totally understand if you're not ready to work on his NWs and independent sleep, but I do think it is the only way forward to stop the NWs.
Crying at nap time can be a number of things. Possibly OT. Mine generally cried at nap time if he was UT. I did wonder if your DS was getting a slightly better sleep at night (ie longer than 4hr stretch) which may heave been making him a little UT for the nap, reluctant and crying but not too difficult to talk into it. But it's hard to be sure. The crying plus the earlier WU in the morning, you might try 10 mins later for nap and see if he settles more peacefully? What do you think?
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I agree that he needs to stay in his bed, just feels we got comfortable as we are, but i know that we just need to bite the bullet and just do it.
He isnt settling for bed tonight at all, which is incredibly unusual for him. He is still up, in his cot and dad is trying to talk him into sleeping.
It just feels so rubbish, we sort out the routine and then he goes to the childminder and doesnt sleep at all and then we spend a couple of days trying to sort it out again and then its back to square one.
This is not fun for any of us. Of course generally it is much netter rhan the screaming we had in the night and 4,5,6 night wakings.
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He used to settle well for CM right?
I wonder if he has hit the 18 month regression early. Mine was 16 months when it hit too. I remember how bad it was, feeling like the entire routine was lost, forcing naps, I think this was when it took an hour to get him to go to sleep at night too. It's a huge developmental leap, sometime mixed with teething, and seems to be one of the worst regression times. It's hard to tell because you weren't on an 'ideal' routine before so it's not so clean cut to say this is the 18 month regression, yk? It may be.
hugs. Whether it's the regression or not, it's hard for you all xx
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Never had a problem with cm until this week, i mean i dont evenknow how he managed to stay awake all day there! Never any issues with BT even if he had a eubbish nap he will settle within a couple of minutes, never any crying. He did t cry tonight, just kept sitting up, or lyib down quoetly eyes open, but just couldnt go to sleep. How long does the regression generally last?
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Too long ::)
There's a support thread here - although looks like you'd be the first to post on the new thread if you jumped on
18 month sleep regression support thread-part 3
I know mods are in the process of putting together a FAQ or sticky for some info on the 18 months regression as we don't have one right now but in short it's awful sleep, teething, separation anxiety type behaviour, developmental stuff and just awful all round.
The usual advice is to hang in there with your routine, whatever routine was working, and you'll eventually come out the other side. I felt a routine tweak would have helped , I'm sure he out grew his routine during the regression, but there is no simple answer to this one. It's not like the 4 month regression which often indicates the need to move to 4hr EASY and a longer A time, or the signs of 2-1 often beginning at 10/11 months. Sorry. I know it doesn't sound good. There IS good news though - everyone makes it through :)
So, although the usual advice is to stick with your routine I don't know that would be the best option in your case.
You know it's your call.
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Oh dear, i dont like the sound of that, u can see that there is lots of developmental stuff going on, and obvioulsy with his sleep being so u predictable. Went to ned at 8 and up at 6.10, not something we want to continue. I guess i will stick to 12-12.15 nap, i think if i chnage anything it wont get any better really, i will just confuse the little man more. And because im not with him everyday i wouldnt want the cm to experiment either that will just make things worse, if theu can get worse
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See how it goes for a few days or a week perhaps. If he is still reluctant to nap I think I'd be tempted to move the nap later.
The development stuff is fun but the lack of sleep isn't :(
FX for you
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Baby sleep was easier((
Would u still stic to a 12 pm nap if he woke ar 6.10?
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Put him to sleep at 12.10 he cried and woke 50 mins later, then slept until 1.50. I think this is OT he has been up since 6.10. Yesterday he was up at 6.40 wnt to nap at 12.15 and slept for an hour then needed resettling. The problem is he does not show any signs of tiredness at all
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I would stick with the set nap time regardless of morning WU. If the nap is coming too early for him this can cause him to wake earlier in the morning so bringing the nap even earlier may make it worse. Having said that though, I've always preferred a slightly OT LO than an UT one. Slightly OT I find easier to resettle, UT I find impossible to resettle ...and it leads to OT in the end anyway so kind of double whammy.
I'd stick with 12.15 nap. I do wonder if he is getting a more restorative sleep at night with the longer stretch of sleep, which is leading to earlier WU. Do you think overall he's getting more or less sleep than usual (if you count all the NWs he used to have and how long he'd be awake for)?
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He is definitely getting much more sleep during the night, i mean before this weirdness started he was getting 11.5 but mostly 12 hours an evem with two wakings he is asleep within a couple of minutes unlike previuosly crying for an hour.
I have discovered that he has an inflammation in his ear so thay will explain some
Of the weirdness and generAl reluctana towards sleep during tje day, today he had a total hysterical meltdown when i put him down for his nap, as soon as i picked him up he fell asleep on me, but was up 40 minutes later and then up every 20 mins or so, just about managed to het 1.40 minutes out of him. And some bt weirdness again. So going to GP tomorrow to see whats with his ear.
But will stick with routine for now
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as soon as i picked him up he fell asleep on me
Aah, sweet poorly boy. I hope he is better soon. Yes it explains the nap reluctance.
After he is better I would consider a later nap, possibly even capped.
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Hi Creations
I think ur right, he consistantly sleeps for 50/60 mins and then needs resettling. And 2 hour naps means ages to fall asleep at BT and then wakings an hour later.
So today he wS with daddy and after a horrible night, he had a high temperature and could only sleep when DH took him downstairs where it is much cooler.
6.50
12.06nap-2.15 5.15A
7.45BT. 5.30A
He has wome at 8.50 but i just put him down and he went back to sleep. Hopefully no fewer in the night and we can get back on track then.
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So we have some progress and some more weirdness.
Lo falls asleep himself for the nap, i mean it doesnt take him longer than 1 minute a d he is out, but i leave the room and he cant see me anyway even if i stood at the door. But we have BT weirdness again, its takobg ages to fall asleep.
7 wu
12.17nap-2. 5.15A
7.40BT
I was aiming for 7.15 bT, but he was just lyibg there babbling a little or just lying quietly, ocassionally getting up but not crying. Surely he is Not OT is he UT after a 1.40 min nap? I cant figure out abd too scared to change anything
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Could just be part of the 18 month regression yk. He is probably going through lots of developments now.
I think I've said the general advice is to stick to your routine to get through the regression, but if he is delaying sleep at BT regularly I would be tempted to put him down a little later and see if he still spends ages babbling or if he will go more quickly to sleep.
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I can see that there is lots happening developmentally and his speech is coming on, although mostly babling))
I will give it a go and aim for 7.30 BT and see if we get anywhere with it. I guess its so frustrating as he shows to his cot and rubs his eyes and yawns and then spends 20-30 mins struggling to sleep in his cot whilst im standing at the door.
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You'll get through it. Either a slightly later BT will help, or you'll go on a while longer like this and he'll come out the other side of the regression. Maybe get a chair by the door so you can be more comfortable? Do you really need to be there at all if he is just babbling?
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I havent tried leaving him, so i have no idea, he does get up ocassionally and sits quietly and then stands up, he would likely get upset if he got up and i wasnt there, although he cant see me when he is lying down. I guess i could try camping out outside the door to start with and go in only if he gets upset. Chair might be a good idea, i just ended up sitting on the floor tonight)
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He slept until 4.20am he then got i to bed with us, but was very restless crying out in his sleep and was up for the day at 6.50! Honestly just when u do t expect these kids do surprise us.
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So he did 8 hrs in his own bed? Is that a first? :)
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Yes yes and yes! Im so pleased
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Cool :D
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Well that was a one of clearly! I hope this will pass but its taking 30-49 mins for him to fall asleep at bt doesnt matte what time we out him to bed really. He just faffs about, i tried leaving him, he either just lays there quietly or gets up and stand in the cot.
Today was
6.30wu
12.25nap-2.05 slept did wake at all for his nap
Went to bed for 7.30
And still awake now
He is at childminders tomorrow, so he will be exhausted with his early waking and very long BT i do t even know what ti e should we do nap or BT anymore
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OK if he is not responding to a later BT then I'd prob return to the 7pm as that was where it was set (correct?). Mostly the advice on the 18 month regression (even if it's early) is to ride it out. I do think I remember needing to shift nap and BT both later for DS just after his though.
As he is not crying and upset you may have some success if you use a more instructional tone to reassure him and tell him "It's sleepy time. Lie down and go to sleep". By instructional I mean something akin to 'teacher voice', firm not harsh, he doesn't need soothing as such he needs to be told it is time to sleep. Hearing you is also reassuring for him too of course. If he is struggling to sleep then the instruction and repeat that it is sleepy time may help.
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And that is what im going to do, he woke once in the night and up for the day at 7, which is great.
Although does mean that a later nap required. Hebusually wakes 6.30-6.45 and goes for a nap at 12.15 and generelly sleeps ok, worried that if i put him to sleep at 12.15 today he will have a short nap.
And BT is 7.15 and that what we will stick to for now
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If you feel in your gut that he needs a slightly later nap then do it. 12.30pm? I wouldn't keep changing on a day to day basis dependent upon what time he wakes in the morning, a set nap time needs to be set, it does work better for the older LO, but even set nap times sometimes need to move later. Nap here eventually moved as late at 2-4pm with 8pm BT (6.30am WU, we didn't get a proper 7am WU until after dropping the nap altogether).
One night wake sounds great :) Let's hope this one also drops, FX.
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Well doesnt make any sense, but Os slept through the night! He had rubbish 40 minutes nap at the childminders u 2.50-3.30, so i thought no chance he would sleep well, but he went off at 7.30 and woke at 7 today! Slept in his cot all night, we had to go and check on him.
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;D ;D ;D
Great news!!