Author Topic: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives  (Read 2334 times)

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Offline Khalam's Mama

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crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« on: July 23, 2014, 18:16:08 pm »
My 3 Yo has been a nightmare to get to bed for ages now. The only fail safe way of getting him to sleep is to make him cry. Obviously I don't do this on purpose, but I am wondering if he needs this sort of release to unwind. He is very spirited. I have tried lots of active rough play etc but it isn't enough and conversely quiet play to wind down slowly isn't working. I have moved bt in case he is ut with no luck. I have split his bt with his brother as they are 10x worse together even though this is really inconvenient and means my 5yo goes to bed really late and it takes me 3 hrs to do bt every evening.
Any ideas for alternatives to a good cry for calming for bed?

Offline Aishi

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2014, 18:26:22 pm »
((Hugs)) sounds rough. Is he ot by any chance?

Ds forms habits quickly so if I say I'll sit next to his bed till he's calm then he wants that at every nw. so to calm him down I've started to tell him that I will cuddle him sitting on his bed just before sleep (no talking) and that's it.  then has to go to sleep. Sometimes I cuddle for about ten min in dark and quiet but always pd before asleep. Could that work?
aishi :)

Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2014, 19:20:47 pm »
If he asks me to stay I do but often he says he does to want me so he can do naughty things without me seeing or he just jumps all over me including on to my face etc to be annoying. He doesn't want to cuddle these days so much.
I don't think he is OT really he is getting about 11hrs which is the most he ever gets. Whatever time he goes down he messes around an hr then sleeps 11 hrs roughly. He was being really annoying tonight so I put him down 1.5hrs early so he shouldn't have been ot. Generally I would say he is a bit better later.

Offline Aishi

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 19:54:04 pm »
Can u not just stick to a short BT routine so bath book bed (or whatever u do) and leave them with a torch, book, audio CD, sticker book etc to entertain themselves until they ready to sleep?

And use wiwo if they get out of bed/ room? Once they know u mean business they'll stop pushing boundaries so much ???
aishi :)

Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2014, 20:01:56 pm »
Don't know if you reAd my other post but I have been doing that over a year practically. They cannot be left alone in the room without wrecking it or fighting and I can put them back in over 100 times for months in a row. Since splitting them K is far easier to settle but B really is the problem.

Offline Aishi

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2014, 20:10:16 pm »
No I hadn't read other post. Hmm that's tough. Tbh idk what else to suggest :-/
aishi :)

Offline *Liz*

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 20:12:00 pm »
After a long drawn out battle with Megan (crying and call backs, never gets out) we found the solution of music. It has made a big difference here - a short CD of lullabies. Classical music works as well.

Horrid feeling you have tried already??

I do think they go through 'bedtime crying phases' though, and there isn't a massive amount you can do  :-\.

Offline creations

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2014, 21:21:38 pm »
How about asking B to describe the BT routine? Can he communicate to you the steps you/he go through perhaps with a little prompting, starting off with something regular/calm like dinner or something and then all the key steps up to falling to sleep. I wonder if he knows he is crying every night, then maybe ask him if there is another way you can help him or what he would like you to do?
Maybe he does feel the need to cry and let off all the emotional energy of the day?
Sounds odd but maybe you could invite him to cry with your support - kind of cut to the chase? He may find it cathartic.
Not the same thing because DS cried at NWs not BT but at some point I read something about crying and changed my approach, instead of soothing him to calm him I held him and said lots of "yes, aha, hmm, yes, I hear you" kind of things, as though all his cries were sentences, things he was communicating that he needed me to hear (rather than stop).  Seemed to help DS, but like I say it's a different situation/context.
Hugs. You're a saint the amount of time you've gone through these BTs.


Offline ~*Nicole*~

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2014, 22:30:26 pm »
Mine have had lots of rough patches. I can NOT do combined bedtime. I have to do each separate. I can bathe together but after teeth brushing, DD goes to do something calm and quiet in her room while I get DS dressed and read him his stories. Then I go to DD and read her stories. Both have been told they do NOT have to go to sleep but they have to stay in their rooms. They may play quietly or read until they feel sleepy. That does seem to help them feel more in control over WHEN they actually fall asleep.

We have also had success with the CDs. Stories on CD or lullabies/classical.

On rough nights I sometimes have to do a wi/wo type thing where I put them back into bed if they get out but it's not so bad because they are in their separate rooms. They wind each other up too much if they are in the same room. If they are really beside themselves and resistant I will stay with them though because they are usually OT or having some anxiety for some reason.

Oh, one other thought. Both of mine went through phases of feeling like they were missing something by going to sleep. It helped to talk about everyone we knew who went to sleep every night. "Your friend, so and so is going to sleep in HER bed." "Your friend, such and such is going to sleep in his bed." "Yes, daddy goes to sleep." "Yes, that's right, mommy goes to sleep at night, too." "Your teacher sleeps." "Oh yes, the fireman has to sleep." and on and on. Makes it seem like they are not alone in having to shut down, turn off and leave the day behind. Maybe that type of talking might help?







Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2014, 07:28:36 am »
Nice ideas thanks.
Just to clarify he isn't just crying himself at bedtime, we have to fight until eventually he cries because I yell at him or I won't stay with him or I take something of him or he gets hurt in some way jumping of bed, fighting with k, squeezes his fingers. slamming the door etc). It would be far less of an issue if he just laid down and cried but we have to have the fight first every night.
Might try the n music note they are separate. Think I only did it while they were apart.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2014, 07:39:26 am »
Clutching at straws here honey as we haven't really had these issues yet (but I'm almost certain we will with T later) but have you ever asked the boys what their BT would be if they could help choose it? I mean I'm almost certain it wont work...but maybe they will surprise you and want something you haven't tried, and it works ???

So many hugs....seriously drawn out Bt and BT dramas stink. :-*
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

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Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2014, 20:33:52 pm »
Good idea thanks.

Offline *Liz*

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2014, 21:37:41 pm »
How old is he now? I know 3, but how much 3  ;)?

Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2014, 15:34:33 pm »
He was 3 in April so 3 and 1/4.

Offline *Liz*

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2014, 16:28:31 pm »
Too young for much sensible discussion then really  :-\. Lots of ideas no doubt.

It may just be that he needs your stern voice, and the cry is just a tired mantra type thing.

Given how much you've tried before this, I think I would try just working with it, accepting for what it is, and knowing he will likely move past it soon yk? I remember Megan seeing to need to be told off before bed at the same age.

Offline ~*Nicole*~

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2014, 13:46:56 pm »
FWIW DS is similar and also a very similar age, April bday. For a bit he did seem to need me to just be a bit stern and tell him enough was enough. Some nights he cried and some nights he got up and I put him back and some nights he rolled over and went to sleep. It seemed more about him testing to see what mommy would do if.....he just didn't want to go to bed b/c he wanted to do something else and had grand ideas of his own! But the more consistent I was the less and less he pushed. He still tries a bit and is irrational about it all, so having conversations don't really work. I just had to tell him that if he got up, I would put him back and if he got up again, I would put him back and if he got up again, I would put him back, because it was time for sleep. It seemed to help for me to basically spell it out for him ahead of time. The one time he got up but didn't leave his room, so I didn't go in and just left him to it, ended up being how he learned he could play and go to sleep when he felt tired...so long as he did not leave his room.

So, essentially his biggest issue is not settling enough to actually get into bed unless you argue and he starts crying? And it sounds like he is trying to do physical things to get himself worked up and then cries afterward once you've had a fight and he does eventually lay down then? I am also wondering if he needs some kind of physical release last thing in the day. I wonder if you can give him a children's exercise type thing to follow that he can do in his room or yoga or something where he is ALLOWED to do something physical before bed, but in a productive way that is more allowable than whatever it is that he is doing himself?

Mine are very spirited/physical and before bed they love to run, play, jump, dance, fight, wrestle. I feel like it's making them more alert and less drowsy and it BUGS me, but it does seem like they NEED to do that some nights. I wonder if you gave them a timer and let them do that stuff for a certain amount of time and then gave them something calming to do afterward if that could lend itself to a better routine for what they need? Maybe 20 mins of roughhousing a bit with each other, THEN teeth, pajamas, music, dim lights, etc. Mine tend to want to do the rough stuff right after bath and it's a battle to get them into pajamas even. Once the pajamas come on and we brush teeth it's like we turn the corner and start calming down a bit more. Then DD does her quiet play, I do stories lying in bed with DS, then switch and do stories lying in bed with DD. If you don't like the idea of letting them do whatever they want, you could maybe try to give structure to it and ask who can do the most push-ups or who can jump the highest jumps, and try to change the activities from more active to more calm as you go? Some big muscle stuff at first, then some yoga stuff toward the end? Who can breathe the quietest? Who can hold this pose the longest?

Just tossing out thoughts as they come.







Offline Khalam's Mama

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2014, 22:44:56 pm »
Thanks Nicole. You are right about the sequence. My kids don't really like being told what to do and esp B wouldn't follow much. When I try the active play before bed it is hard to get it too stop ever. Maybe I need to work on a slower subtle transition. We had a few good nights of going to sleep nicely in order to get a star for the reward chart. The last two nights he has gone to sleep crying about flying doggies in his room.

Offline ~*Nicole*~

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Re: crying before sleep ~ what are the alternatives
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2014, 18:55:23 pm »
Flying doggies, eh? It's always something!

;)