Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies

[tweetie]

You are welcome lily lane  . Unfortunately not , last night 2.5 hr party  .

[NewMum79]

We had a 2 hour NW last night too  DD was really upset, teething and a cold I think... Such a shame as she slept through the previous night for the second time this week. Just as things look up another challenge comes around the corner! Fingers crossed for us all tonight.

[*Ali*]

Hi ladies, I just wanted to say hi as I have just joined the EASY mods who moderate this support thread.

Please do post on the main EASY board if you would like help on more general issues from mamas outside of this thread

[mdittmer]

Hello!  I'm new to the forum and new to bw!  I have a and almost 4mth old who is the epitome of spirited.  I've been working on getting her on at least a 3 hr EASY, however due to reflux I have always fed her about every 2-2.5 hours since if she eats too much she inevitably spits it all back up.  I'm able to keep her to about 2.5-3 hr per feeding and started dream feeding this week.  Unfortunately she has started taking only 45 minute naps, literally on the dot.  I have tried to get her back to sleep but she wakes up usually happy and smiling so I've tried to cut down the A time to make sure she is getting enough rest.  She never sleeps longer than a 4-5 hour block at night before she is usually up every 2-2.5 hours until about 7.  One of those times I know is for hunger but the other are not. 
Just this week she has started screaming any time I start to swaddle and she get incredibly agitated very quickly and is soon screaming at the top of her lungs and nothing, not even being picked up calms her.

We have slowly weaned her from being bounced to sleep to sleeping in her bassinette.  She rarely falls asleep on her own so we are wanting to work on that and more sleep at night since I am exhausted all the time.  She is a fighter and it kills me to see her cry and cry, even when I am trying to soothe her.  Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated it. She is a little on the small side and because she is so spirited I worry that pu/pd will rile her up more.  Any advice would be SO appreciated from a very tired first time momma.

Here is a typical EASY:
7am-E
7:20-8:15/30-A
8:30-9:15-S
9:30/45-E (this is where I try to hold her off a bit by changing diaper, etc. so as to not feed her so soon)
9:45-11ish-A
11ish-12:00pm nap (depending if she goes down easily, she never goes down on her own-again nap is exactly 45 minutes)
12:30-12:50 E
12:50-1:45 A
1:45-2:30 S
3-3:25 E
3:30-4:30 A
4:30-5:15 S
5:30-E
5:45-6:45 A(bath, stories, wind down)
7:00E
7:15/30 (again not going down on her own, but she does tend to do BT much easier than NT) S
10pm-Dream feed
2am (stirs, husband picks up to get her back to sleep)
3am-E
6:30am E

[roimata9]

Mdittmer, I had a reflux baby to and instead of doing EASY, I would do EAEASY.
You may need to transition to this to get better naps out of her. I'm not an expert in A times, but I'm sure at 4 months my DS was up for longer than 1 hr 15- 1.5 hrs between naps.
I'm sure someone else can chip in here to give advice on what the A times could be pushed out to.
Good luck!

[Kirsten~]

Shelby- yikes on the twins! I'm impressed with anyone who survives babyhood with twins! Unfortunately, you may find that your spirited DS has different sleep requirements and A times as your DD, which I would imagine is tough with 2! I was often so worried about OT and OS that we ended up with a lot of UT naps and nights. My DD though goes to a babysitters 3 days a week while I'm at work, and there shes around 3 older kids with Lots of activity!

For those with long NWs, we finally figured out that we could tell if it was UT or teething/pain. If when we went in there, she stopped crying (and wanted to play!) then we knew it was UT. If she was still upset, even off and on, after we went in, then we knew it was some sort of discomfort. We try to use that to figure out if we need to tweak anything or if she just needs some meds or comfort.

Hi mdittmer, I'm also no expert and have no reflux experience, but my DD fights me sometimes too, but seems to settle when I put her down. It's like she wants a chance to get comfortable and settle in to sleep rather than having me hold her. It means less cuddle time, but it saves the fight!

[lily_layne]

Hi mdittmer - welcome!

my DD fights me sometimes too, but seems to settle when I put her down. It's like she wants a chance to get comfortable and settle in to sleep rather than having me hold her.

My DD is the same way.  She just seems to need her own space to go to sleep.  It took me a long time to figure it out but when she arches her back it's time to put her down.  Sometimes I even need to back off and not touch her for a few minutes (even if she's wailing) and then she seems ready for me to comfort her and help her get to sleep.

Average A time at 4 months is between 1h45 and 2 h.  Slowly increasing A time might help with the naps.

[mdittmer]

thanks ladies!  i'll try your suggestions and try to get on the reflux board.  i have to say today we had some small victories.  i went in to try and wts at around min 30 of her nap, which didn't quite work, but at the 45 min mark i sh/pat and she went back to sleep!  she slept almost 2 hours and it was amazing!  she also went down quickly at bt, though still with the help of a pacifier (though it isn't a prop for her so i don't mind using it)

i cannot tell you all how much comfort i've found today after finding this forum.  reading through all the threads and seeing that my little charlotte is not the only one has made me feel so much calmer-especially as a first time mom!

thanks again!  i'm sure i'll be back... :-)

[lily_layne]

i cannot tell you all how much comfort i've found today after finding this forum.  reading through all the threads and seeing that my little charlotte is not the only one has made me feel so much calmer-especially as a first time mom!

Happy to hear you're feeling calmer.  This site does the same for me!  It's so great to know that others have gone through the same thing - it reassures me that the problems we're experiencing aren't my fault.

[mdittmer]

ladies,
i have been using shush/pat and it seems to be working at times, but i know it takes time.  she'll be 4 months on the 12th and i wondered how pu/pd has worked with your spirited ones or if you have done something different?  i think it would rile her up more with her 0-60 personality :-)

also, i am working on winding down and have not been able to figure out a way that really calms her.  she gets SO crazy before going to sleep (even when i'm keeping to the 1:45-2hr A time).  any suggestions on things that have worked?

she was a disaster yesterday.  barely could get her to sleep during the day and she was up a lot of the night with my dear husband who let me get some much needed sleep.

thank you so much.  it's been a rough few day

[lily_layne]

i am working on winding down and have not been able to figure out a way that really calms her.  she gets SO crazy before going to sleep (even when i'm keeping to the 1:45-2hr A time).  any suggestions on things that have worked?

My DD was like that to but it's slowly getting better.  Loud white noise often helps to calm my LO and we turn it down and leave it on for her whole nap.  Vigorous rocking also sometimes works.  If I absolutely can't calm her, putting her down crying and then giving her the soother and patting her works to get her to sleep (she usually goes to sleep in under a minute this way).  I also often give her the soother during the WD if she's not calm - sometimes she plays with it and sometimes she sucks it.  If she's really upset, sometimes it takes a few tries to get her to take the soother but once she does, she passes right out.  It's not a prop for her, so I use it as often as she needs it.

[becj86]

PUPD is something I've only seen work for one spirited baby on here. It was a disaster with DS and it is a last resort method if shush/pat is used consistently for at least a week with no progress at all.

A minimal wind down worked best for us, and something to link through the transition from play area to cot, so I brought a toy he'd been playing with -a leaf or whatever- and closed the blinds, turned on the fan, put him and the leaf in bed and gave him the chance to settle. Used shush/pat if required. TBH, DS was a little older then than your DD is now. I had him sleep on me til 3.5months and sleep trained in a weekend. It's critical to be getting her sleep window though, if you're wanting her to sleep independently at this age. I did keep things calm for a while before nap time, so a walk around the garden or the house looking at things and chatting with me with plenty of body contact helped to calm him. A big tight hug helps A lot of spirited LOs release their energy and calm down for sleep.

[roimata9]

Mdittmer, I'm sure I've read that PU/PD isn't recommended for babies with reflux.
My DS was the same - even just going into his room to get a nappy would make him scream his head off. The only thing that worked for us was pushing out the A time and getting his window right. He had a short wind down. Change nappy, swaddle, carry into room singing our sleep song, put him down saying our sleep phrase and then a couple of pats. Anything longer at that age would set him off.
GL!

[*Ali*]

Yes PUPD is a big no no for LOs with reflux. It sloshes the stomach contents up into the esophagus causing the burning sensation.

[mdittmer]

thanks everyone.  we will keep finding some modified version of sh/pat.  i feel like it somewhat agitates her more!  bless her heart.

another question, i've been trying to break her 45 min nap cycle that she is on to no avail.  i've tried putting pressure when she jolts. i've also tried to put her back to sleep since she often ends up crying, but the only way i seem to be able to do that is to pick her up and walk around with her. 

i've tried w2s, but i think i must not be waking her enough?  she will stir a tiny bit, but it is extremely difficult to get her to rouse at all.  any suggestions on what to do.  i poke her lightly, try to tickle her face, or under her nose, but nothing.  if only she would stay sleeping that soundly the whole time! 

thanks for all the help!