8 month old waking between 6-12 time a night at least!

[kimx3]

My nearly 9 month old has been frequently waking now for about 5 months! i understand he is a baby and is breast fed so to be honest i expect him to wake 1-2 times and that doesnt phase me, but at current i am lucky to get 40mins-1 hour between wakings! i'm exhausted i have a 3yr and 4 yr old and do 3 school runs a day, and my patience is wearing thin now. i'm snappy and irritable and it's not fair on anyone. i love my baby dearly but i dont know how much longer i can do this without me resulting in being carted off by men in white coats!!

we have no real routine as such as he just seemed to fight and fight against routine, he has structure in the way that he has meal times, he has a bath every other night. he does have a dummy for sleep time. he really fights bedtime so we just gave up putting him in the cot otherwise we would be up ther every 2o mins all evening, and then up all night too. so now he just goes in his bouncy chair when he's tired about 8 ish. i was really against training at first as i thought i was harming him or conditioning him in some way, and all my health visitor suggested was cry it out, which i really dont want to do. i am desperate now and am ready to try anything that wil not be emotionally or physically detrimental to my son. any advice or tips would be wonderful! from a very desperate, sleep deprived mummy!! x

[Dee_hnh]

I've just seen your post and thought I had written it!!! My DS is nearly 9 months as well and also breast fed. Up until a few weeks ago he was waking 6-12 times a night as well. A good night would be every 2 hours or so. A bad night was every 45mins. With two other children to look after, you really and truly have my sympathy. I only have DS so can nap in the morning when he does and have an easy day at home if I really can't find the energy to leave the house. Ooh how many times have I told my DH I'm going to have to commit myself if DS doesn't start sleeping better soon.

I suppose I am lucky in thet my spirited wee man loves loves loves routine. Very early on he set himself up on his own EASY. This was only when I realised he could only stay awake 90mins and then needed to be put down for a nap. Once a nap time routine was introduced he was in naping routine and dead easy to put down each 90min. He'd sleep for 45mins and then we'd start again. We'd have bedtime fighting until we found he wanted to be asleep by 6.20pm at the very latest. And at 5.15pm, the bath better be running or else he'd cry and cry. His bedtime routine took much longer for him to get use to, but eventually it really made bedtimes easier. Now we don't have any issues though I can't just help him get sleep and pop him in cot then walk away like naps. But least he accepts sleep. But we had the continual NWs.

What worked for us was adjusting his EASY routine.I thought he would just naturally increase his awake time but nope. He wanted a nap exactly 90mins after waking. Even though he was nearly 8 months! I started stretching his A time by 10mins every 3-5 days. Basically wait until he coped with it. Each increase makes the first day difficult as he's so tired and wants to go take a nap but I won't let him. But after a week or two he'd droped to 3 NW, and even managed to sleep for a 6 hour stretch 2 times (sadly, never happened again). As A time increase, he droped to 2 NW. Amazing really. And the best bit, he is now wanting to try to fall asleep on his own and managed it himself. I've not done any sleep training really apart from try to put him down earlier and earlier after settling him. So that he can do more of the falling asleep on his own. Some nights he'll accept being put down quickly, others, not at all and he is nearly asleep when in his cot. Patting sometimes quite vigoursly helps settle him, though now sometimes is a distraction.

We are facing a tough time at the moment though, I must admit. With him taking 2 hour or more hours to settle and crying hysterically. I can't work out what this is about (am going to put a post about this in a bit for a bit of help). I think I preferred the 6-12 wakings rather than is.

Anyway, sorry for novel. I just really feel for you and thought I'd share what has worked for us. Oh, he uses a dummy as well. And white noise, and his sleeping bag. He has a lovely which he loves too but he seems to want to cuddle it sometimes, and others just beat it to death or try to throw it out of the cot.

I am against CIO but have sometimes thoguht OMG he needs to sleep and I know this will work after a time. But also know my DS could cry the whole night. He is very determined. Also, it would damage the attachment we have and after nearly 9 months of using attachment parenting method, wouldn't actually do it since I don't believe in CIO being a good thing for babies.

Hopefully you can find a bit of hope through my post! And if not, the people on the forum are great. You will get lots of tips and advice to try, and most importantly. Support! Big hugs from another very sleep deprived mummy. xo

[kimx3]

Hiya, would it help if i tried to break down his routine for other's to see?

He wakes about 7.30-8 am (although my oh does giv ehim a bottle at 5am when he gets up for work, but he drinks it then goes back to sleep.
He will sit and play for a bit till we set out at 8.30 ish to take my eldst 2 to school.
we come back and i will then give him some breakfast about 9am which will be porrige and yogurt,or similar.
he usually has a nap between 9.30 and 10 am so depending what time he goes down he will wake between 10.30 and 11.
sometimes has a bf depending if he wants it or not.
he then has a play on the floor again (he doesnt crawl yet, sort of bum shuffles a bit) or i will do some activity with him
11.30am we go to pick my middle child up from nursery so back in the pushchair and down the school.
back home about 11.50 and he will play for a bit and have his lunch between 12.30 and 1pm.
will have another nap between 1-1.30 usually to about 2pm is
back to playing/activity till we go do school run at 3pm
get back from school run about 3.25-3.30pm.
sometimes has a bf when we get back.
will then play with my eldest till about 4.30-5.00pm when he sometimes has a little nap, not always sometimes he has his dinner first at 5 and then has a little nap about 5.30ish only 20 mins or so.
bathtime every other night around 6-6.30pm
cuddles offer breastfeed, then about 7-7.30pm he has bedtime bottle with daddy. will then either fall asleep on daddy with dummy or go in his bouncy chair and fall asleep about 8 ish. we used to put him upstairs but we would be up and down all night doing pick up putdown every 10-20 minutes, and what with being woken all night i needed some peace in the vening to keep my sanity!
my partner works 50 hours a week and is out the door at 6.15am every morning and not home till 5.45pm every evening so i do it pretty much alone and i just dont know what to do anymore xx

[londonlady]

Hey Kim, it's Rach... x

You will get lots of help and support here, I know you've been having a rough time so will try and keep your thread bumped up so as many eyes can see it and offer help, hugs, hand holding and whatever else you need.

I know you don't think you have a routine, but actually your morning is very similar to ours, but we then tend to try for a longer nap between 1.30/1.45pm-3pm. It would ideally be longer or slightly later, but like you we also do the school run at 3pm.  I then aim to have Sofia in bed for 6.30pm as I find that anything longer than about 3.5hrs awake in the evening leads to over tiredness which then means she is restless in the evening or we might get the odd night waking. We dropped the little cat nap about a month or so ago, she was fighting it, or on the nights she did take it, she'd then struggle to settle for bed.

Assume he's not quite there with the independent sleep as he's not resettling himself and is going to sleep in the bouncy chair? That's probably going to be the first thing to tackle and routine tweaks can come afterwards...

Hopefully some of the expert BW mummies will know where best to start... 
Rach. x

[kimx3]

thank you rachel .

Well tonight i gave him a bath about 6 ish and let him play for a good 20 minutes in the bath. then got him out took him in my room with the lights down dim and got him ready for bed, being quite soothing and quiet with my voice. once he was dressed i got his bottle ready gave him his bottle, then read him a story. he seemed to really enjoy this. i then cuddled him for a few more minute and put him in his cot fully awake, by which point it was about 6.45 ish. i left the room as my o.h was in there already came down for 5 minutes then went back up when i heard him grizzle (not really cry more of a moan). stayed next to the cot and kept trying to settle him, but he did get upset although he was rubbing his eyes so i knew he was tired. so i picked him up holding him upright not cradled and stroked his head shhhing him. when he seemed calm i put him down again fully awake but calm and after about 5 minutesd he went to sleep!! admittedly he did have a dummy but its literally been about 8 weeks since he went to sleep in his cot alone without my rocking etc! i know it's only a little thing but i'm really pleased we did it!! xx

[ceilidhf]

So sorry you're having a hard time - I am right there with you but only have a 4 year old and an almost 8 month old. It is really tough trying to function and be there for your older child when you haven't had any sleep for months...I have spent hours just sobbing and resenting my baby for putting the family through this. He is up every hour and a half to two hours every night and each waking can last half an hour to two hours - so yes, I totally understand what you're going through. Through advice on these boards, I have been keeping a detailed journal of every single waking, feeding, what happens at wakings, etc. etc. I made an appointment with my GP (where I just sobbed for 20 mintues) and he suspected reflux so referred me to a specialist. Sure enough, the specialist confirmed it (I would NEVER have suspected this had I not been on BW as is it is not the "classic" reflux but silent). We are now on medication and, although he still isn't sleeping through the night yet (I suspect we have to start over with training) he is taking great, consistent naps during the day and at least going 4 hours or so at night with much calmer wakings. I really would start logging everything that you see - you just never know. Good luck and remember you are not alone!!

[kimx3]

thank you ceilidhf, i know this sound's really mean but it's comforting to know i'm not the only one going through it. sometimes i feel like a failure and think i'm ruining this beautiful experience for myself and baby, but i didn't realise just how common it is. thank you.

can anyone look at our routine and see if there is anything i can tweak or any tips/advice please? xx

[ceilidhf]

I'm no expert at this, but working on all the same issues as you...this is what I did:
Figure out a routine that will work for you and fit around your other kids and their routines (this was so tough for me as my 4 year old has different activities at different times each day!!) Once you have an idea of where you can fit in naps, etc then try to work your day around this - you will find that, for at least the first little while, you will pretty much have no life as you are ruled by naptimes!! I definitely think your LO needs to be awake for longer in order to take longer nap times - before getting on a routine, we just let our guy sleep whenever and he NEVER napped longer than half an hour - this impacts their nighttime sleep so getting those naps fixed are really key...My guy is almost 8 months and is awake for 3 hours before he needs to sleep and then will go down for an hour and a half to two hours - I ALWAYS wake him at 2 hours, otherwise it cuts into his next nap or his bedtime. What worked for me during the day was to rearrange the routine so that he wasn't eating right before napping - that way he wasn't depending on a full tummy to fall asleep. We have great days now - no issues with napping or falling asleep independently...nights are still a challenge! You may also need to take a few steps back and forget doing anything until your LO has caught up on sleep if he is OT - we had so many months of sleep deprivation that it was impossible to get out of the cycle and really focus on sleep training. Instead, I did whatever was necessary to get him to sleep as long as possible at night - if he woke I just rocked him back to sleep as it was the quickest and easiest way for my guy. Once we had about a week of more restful sleep the days were a breeze and hopefully the nights will be, too!!!! I'm sure some of the really experienced moms will point you in the right direction, but just wanted to let you know some of what worked for me...and yes, I totally know the relief when you find out that you are not the only mom going through this!!!! What has made it harder still for me is that he is SO good, mellow, easy going during the day that EVERYONE thinks I am insane when I complain about him not sleeping - they just don't believe it...

[kimx3]

he has been awake for an hour now and i cant settle him, my back is killing me and im in tears. he woke about 8.30ish and was drowsy at first so i tried to just give him his dummy and resettle him as think he only woke from rolling on his tummy and getting his arm stuck. anyway that didnt work so picked him up till he was calm and more awake and tried to put him down when he was calm. i ahve been doing this for an hour now and he is just getting more and more hysterical as he's over tired now. had to send his dad up to take over as i'm too upset and he's picking up on it. doesnt help i had a really bad night last night so im already irritable. what d i do in situations like this? if i keep doing pick up put down he is getting over tired and gonna be even worse, i suspect he will be even more terrible tonight now he's over tired. i just dont know what to do for best!!  i feel like a complete failure but i just hate to hear him cry, and as selfish as this sounds i'm gettng frustrated that he wont just settle quicker. i love him so much but i feel like i'm falling apart a bit more each day. that may sound over dramatic but i do seriously feel like i'm doing a terrible job for all 3 now, as i'm moody and snappy to my other 2 as a result of lack of sleep from baby, sometimes think they would be better off without me x

[ceilidhf]

Not dramatic at all - I can totally relate and my poor 4 yo really has been suffering as a result, BUT you will get through this, as will I!!! First off, what will get him back to sleep quickest? Rocking? Swing? Whatever works at this point - do it...forget sleep training for a few days until both baby and YOU are more rested and able to deal with it. Otherwise you will get to the point where you're just so tired and frustrated that you end up giving up and leaving him to cry (there have been MANY nights where I wanted to do that and felt that my baby was being manipulative/difficult...they're not, they just don't know how to tell you what is going on). Anyways, get that LO back to sleep asap with whatever it takes - even if it's accidental parenting. Once you are over the OT loop then try sleep training again - be warned that PU/PD can have the opposite effect on many babies. Some nights it will works like a dream for mine, but others it just makes him crazy! I also find myself jumping in too quickly to help at times (I don't want him to wake my daughter) and this definitely makes matters worse as he likely may have been able to resettle by himself if I hadn't been there...And, for what it's worth, I have walked the streets with him in a stroller at 2am a few times - anything to get him back to sleep! Just remember, you are NOT a bad mother and all of your LOs will be fine...but I would definitely speak to a doctor and see if there is anything they can do to help, just in case! You may want to check out my post on the night wakings baord (almost 7 months and regressing) as there has been some great advice offered there for my situation - which sounds VERY similar to yours....

[kimx3]

thank ypu chick, last night i did end up putting him in bed with me as i just desperately needed to sleep. i'm lucky if i get 3-4 hours a night xx

i really need some advice on what to change, or what do i do when pick up put down has been going on an hour and he's screaming and i'm stressed and upset as that doesnt seem to be getting either of us where we want to be? it took me 45 minutes this morning to get him dwon in his cot, and i had to resort to bf him as he was so distraught and over tired! i did make sure he wasnt completely asleep just drowsy before i put him down and he slept for about 40-45mins. been trying to get him down for a nap for 40 mins now and not working, he stopped crying so i came here quickly as had laptop in room with me, he;s currently moaning but not crying. this is so hard as i'm not sure if i'm doing i right or if there's anything else i can try to help?

[kimx3]

its 14.07 now so part of me is thinking why waste anymore time trying to settle him as gotta wake him at 3 to go get his brother from school. so frustrated!!!

[londonlady]

Kim have you been over to the PUPD boards? The moderators should be able to walk you through it. I had help from them when I did it with Max, and literally daily updates, tweaks, help and support. Might be worth starting a thread with a link to this one in it (just copy and paste the URL from this page.)

xxx

[londonlady]

There is also a support thread for parents doing it at the moment.. x

[kimx3]

ok so bedtime initially  went  well , till he woke at 7.30pmand still awwke going strong! arggghhh have gone to get him a bottle to see if that helps! x