Nights bad because naps are bad??

[ellenjess]

My 4 mo usually wakes about every 2 hours at night, after a good initial stretch of about 6 hours. I'm really lost as to how to improve his naps - I'm thinking he's in a funny ut/ot cycle cos his naps are so rubbish. He only has 3 45min naps per day. I've done lots of wts and it either does nothing or wakes him immediately.

A normal day is
Wu 730
E 8
A
S 9-945
E 1030
A
S 11-1145
A
E 130
A
S 2-245
A
E
S I try for 430 but this one never works. He screams and screams. It's like he won't tolerate more than 3 naps. I've tried short A too but then he doesn't seem tired and screams cos of that.

It's then a battle to keep him going in the evening, really hard to make dinner, sort toddler etc cos tired baby won't be put down!

I do him a bath at about 6 ish and then feed and bed for about 630pm. He wakes between 10 and 12 to feed, then every 2 hours after that. I feed if its been 3 hours and rock/cuddle if less. If left he eventually cries a lot, then toddler wakes up and husband starts moaning (like im doing it on purpose!) He self settles for naps and bt, and was briefly doing a 2 hour nap in the middle of the day which helped but its gone.

I'm confused! Any help or opinions appreciated!  I'm starting to wonder if I should move onto formula and wean at 5 months to help him fill up more. I really thought once he learnt to self settle hed get better at night

Thanks

[Layla]

((hugs))

At 4 months, you would probably want to start making the transition to 4hr EASY. At this age, we were doing 2hrs A time and feeding every 3.5-4hrs. If your LO is breastfed, you may not be able to get him to stretch 4 hrs but at least aim at spreading the E's out to 3.5hrs. Time to Transition - 3hr, 3.5hr or 4hr EASY

At 4 months, we were also struggling with some short naps (mainly the afternoon nap) but we managed to get 1 long nap in the morning. If you stretch his first A to 2hrs, you may find that he will want to sleep longer and even if you get 1 good nap a day, that's fine too. He's probably outgrown the 4th nap.

You don't need to move onto formula but definitely try and space out the feeds so he takes more in. We only managed to get 2 solid naps when we transitioned to 2 naps (around 5 months)... short naps could also be developmental but see how you go trying to push the first A and get him to take a longer nap in the morning.

When he wakes, I would also just leave him in the cot. I used to leave J in the cot for up to an hour from when nap started (so extra 15mins if the nap was 45mins) and she would sometimes put herself back to sleep for another 45mins. Obviously if she was crying and it wasn't a mantra cry, I would go to her and try to shh/pat her back to sleep but again just for another 15mins and if S didn't happen, I would move on with our day and give her some more A before giving her E.

There is also a massive growth spurt and sleep regression at around 4 months so hang in there, it will get better

[ellenjess]

Thanks Layla. It's good to hear there is some hope! My toddler was a much better napper so im a bit lost.  I had wondered about stretching his feeds out but then they seem to clash cos of these short naps. Will work on that.  I find the first feed of the day a bit tricky as he's not always hungry as he spends half the night scoffing!

This morning he ended up having a 2 hr A time as he didn't settle well but then woke after 35 mins. I left him for a while to see if he'd resettle but no joy. I tend not to shh pat anymore, it seems to bug him!

Good to hear that the forth nap goes and it isn't uncommon to outgrow it. I just wish he'd have one decent nap in the day. I keep thinking he must be wearing himself out but he is a very happy boy and doing well.

Onwards and upwards... Xx

[ellenjess]

Hi again
Just to feed back on today, the stretched out feeds have gone well!  I thought he would have been cross, but no.  He fed at 5am and didn't want 8am so I did 9am, 12.30, 4.20, 7.30. He fed for longer each time. 
Still did three rubbish naps but not worrying about the 4th one helped me to relax a bit over it all today.  I just spaced the naps out a bit more.
Here's hoping....
x

[Layla]

Excellent! With regards to the early morning feed - I used to give J one side only and offer the other side when she'd wake for good and I would count my E's from the time she would have her morning feed. Hang in there with the naps - what are your A's at the moment?

[ellenjess]

Last night saw some improvement! Following the 730 feed, he went through until 2.30 and then 5am.  I fed at both as I was tired and wanted to get back in bed asap and he slept until 730am.  BUT the test will be what happens tonight as last night he was crying from 6.30-7pm and he always sleeps for longer after he's been crying.  Tonight was peaceful.

Today we did
WU 730
E 9am (4 hours after prev feed)
A
S (A was 2 hours) 930-1020
A
E 12.15 (would have gone for longer but needed to nap)
S (A was 2hrs 20) 12.40-3.10pm!!!
E 4pm
A
S 5.15pm attempted a CN but was rejected.  I didn't think he was very tired but just thought I'd try it.
A bath to keep him going (loves the bath)
E 6.40pm
S 6.50pm, A was 3hrs 40. I expect he'll wake before midnight tonight to feed as the 6.40pm feed was short, he was so tired. 

I wonder if he might have had the tea time CN had he been in the carrier or other APOP but toddler was very sad and clingy at this time so she had my attention and DS amused himself under the baby gym. Tomorrow toddler is at nursery so I will be able to APOP a teatime CN if needed.

Feeling positive!

[Layla]

Wow, what an awesome afternoon nap!!! But still be careful and try not to let him stay up anymore than 2hrs for now but it is possible he can do more than av A times. Not sure if I mentioned it before but at 4 months (closer to 4.5), we had some missed catnaps and by 5 months we were well on our way to dropping it! In the future, you could (if you dare ) only let him sleep up to 2hrs so that you can squeeze in a catnap or as you said, you might have to apop the last nap. So much harder when other kids are around, hey?! I used to put Jennifer in a sling for the last nap. It will disappear soon and its the shortest nap so its ok to AP this one.

Great update... fingers crossed he sleeps well for you tonight!

[ellenjess]

Well last night was a disaster!  Up at 1130, 130, 330, 410, 610. Bah!! But...this morning he did 1.5hrs + and is just waking from his second CN now too.  three naps, but a good 3 + hrs asleep.  Better spacing etc so he should go to bed at 7 after a good feed instead of falling asleep through exhaustion like last night.  You're right too, if he does do a long afternoon nap again I'm going to wake him so we can still have a tea time CN.
Let's see what tonight brings! x