Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #26

[lolsyb1982]

I wouldn't normally do 45 mins but as her morning nap was shorter and all the bad nights I thought I'd let her have a bit longer. I'm not sure how long she would last for after 15 mins? How long an A do you do before the CN?

[Layla]

Did you have any luck with earlier bedtime as opposed to 2nd nap/catnap

[lolsyb1982]

No didn't make any difference but that was the last day of her "funny" phase. Next day was her party and she had 15 mins on way home to nan and grandad's with BT 1.45 after that. Yesterday couldn't do it either as she had shorter morning nap so would have been too early a bedtime.

At cm today so will be a rubbish 1 nap day so will try EBT and see what sort of a night she has.

[Scottishmummy]

I think my Ben needs less sleep than your Kitty. I only do 15mins regardless of how long first nap was (as long as it was at least an hour- any less and I do 30mins for 2nd nap but have him awake by 4) or amount of A time in between (which has varied from 4-2.5hrs!).  That last catnap seems clock rather than A time driven for him, he was the same in the 3-2, he clearly shows tired signs around 4, even if he woke up at 1.30/2.  If he's had a shorter first nap he just has less day sleep that day but he seems to cope as I think it evens out over the week.

So if EBT doesn't work you could try capping the 2nd nap earlier- maybe at 20 or 30mins? I do think the amount of late afternoon sleep & A time before bed makes a big difference to night sleep & wu time- at least for us.

[ashkenras]

Joining this conversation since 12mo DS is in the throws of the 2-1 transition.  How did you decide which nap to cut short?  Lately, he won't sleep for more than 45 min for either nap and has had progressively earlier wakings.  (SOOO thankful that he doesn't fight going down!) I have pushed back the pm nap as late as I feel comfortable, so I think I'll try pushing back the am nap a little at a time.  Since both his naps are short, I usually cap the am nap at 30 min and let him sleep as long as he wants in the pm.  So far, that hasn't proved terribly successful, but I haven't been pushing back the am nap either.

scottishmummy, I'm glad someone else uses <30min naps!  Both our boys must be able to function well on less sleep.

Such trial and error!

[Scottishmummy]

Hello, ashkenras  . I started with short am/long pm because DS had been waking himself after 40 minutes at that nap for several months so when the 2nd nap got short too I capped the first at 30mins, which worked for a while.  After a while he started sleeping less at 2nd nap again & pushing both later so I switched to long am/short pm & increasing 1st A time.  It was working really well until illness hit & I went back to work!

Yes, the 15min cn was our friend in the 3-2 too so I'm trying to do same again.

Lolsyb- just thought, could the bedtime refusal be due to clock change? Ben has been harder to settle tonight & last night & I think his body clock is a bit out of whack.

[lolsyb1982]

We had nap and BT refusal for about 2 weeks. She seemed to go back to normal Saturday so I think it was developmental.
Although saying that I put her down at 6.10 after the first eye rub (anyone else finding tired cues are becoming few and far between these days?) and she struggled to go off but was asleep at 6.30. Probably should have been asleep nearer to 6 so we'll see what kind of a night we have.

[ashkenras]

lolsyb, I definitely agree that sleep cues have seem to all but vanished!  Once we are in the dark room with his bedtime toy, then he will yawn and rub his eyes, but not before.

I swear DS has an internal stopwatch.  However long his AM nap is, that is how long his PM nap is.  Never fails.  *sigh*  So rather than trying to extend the PM nap, I guess I should try to delay and extend the AM nap.  Talk about messing up any kind of a schedule I tried to have for myself away from baby.  Oh well.

I wonder if anyone else has also noticed that no amount of AP-ing will get their babies back to sleep.  Maybe I've just trained DS to be too independent, to where if he can't go to sleep on his own, he won't go to sleep at all.  If he wakes up, it's better to get him up than have a rough time that spoils the first 30 min after a nap.

[lolsyb1982]

Mixes results from the EBT. Woke at 2.45 and was awake an hour. Only went back to sleep after I have her some milk but then did add that on and woke at 6.25 instead of what I would imagine would have been 5.30.

4.5hr A today only got us 1.10 nap so think it's time for an increase. Gone from 2+hrs to 1.5 to the 1.10 today. She still does seem tired at the 4.5hr mark but could just be because that's when she's used to going down. Not sure how to play the rest of the day now though? Thinking 30min nap at 4? She woke at 12.10... What d'ya reckon?

[ashkenras]

I know DS used to act sleepy at precisely 3hrs of A time, but was okay with staying up when it needed to increase.

[lolsyb1982]

Yes I think she did the same when we had that kind of A time too.

She was shattered by 3.45 so put her down. Asleep 3.55 and will give 30 mins. Not sure what time bed though. Will just have to judge it later. 6.45 maybe?

[Scottishmummy]

Ashkenras- DS has always been pretty resistant to resettling after a short nap, unless he hasn't fully woken up.  If his eyes are open we're done!

How did bedtime go, Lolsyb? I've started trying a set bedtime of 7pm as I was getting fed up of the guess work. & having an OT or UT baby. Been doing it a few weeks now (with exception of EBT of 6.30 on Sat but he'd had 1 nap & a very very busy afternoon) & it seems to be working. Sounds like another A increase is worth a try.

Ben seems to have no predictable or consistent routine now thanks to my mum & nursery & me all doing different things. Touchwood he's still STTN, waking for day around 6-6.30 & not acting OT in the day so just going to go with the flow for now & hoping things settle down. I like a routine & I miss it.

[lolsyb1982]

She was so not impressed when I woke her after 30 mins and she tried desperately to go back to sleep. Almost let her but decided against it!

Put her down at 6.35 but I think she was OT and took 30mins to go off. Asleep at 7. Let's see how tonight goes!
I've been contemplating set bedtime and actually asked on the toddler board if there was an age they recommended from. K's pretty sensitive to OT so not sure I should go there yet but might have to soon as the constant guesswork is driving me nuts.

[ashkenras]

I agree, the guesswork is very tiring.  Especially when DH is asking me what we should do about the short naps and all I can do is shrug my shoulders.

DS had an AM nap of just 30 min.  I wasn't able to delay the AM nap because of an appt, so I'm not surprised it was short.  But he was up for 4.25 hrs afterward and still had a 30min PM nap.  Tired as he seemed, he just can't sleep very long anymore.  Thankfully, he's still relatively happy when awake and the EWs are disappearing again.

Guess all I can do is slowly increase his A time until we find that spot that encourages him to take a decent nap.

[Scottishmummy]

I'm going to take a break....Ben is all over the place- 3 different carers and 3 different routines but still 2 naps. I'm going to give it until the end of the month & wait for him to settle down at nursery & with my mum then probably come back to the thread in Toddler sleep. Maybe "see" you all there x