9 months old - teething, sick, nw and developmental changes

[mmjones]

Ok so I've posted periodically about my DS's night wakings but these past 2 weeks have been the WORST, with this past week being unbelievable!  He will be 9 months old in a few days (on the 3rd).  Just as a little background, he used to be in daycare full time from 8 weeks old to 3 months old.  From 3 months old to now he has been home with me all day.  Just this past monday (8 days ago) he started going back to daycare 3 days a week from 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. so I'm sure this has something to do with the horrors of this week, but his night wakings were going on before this also.  Additionally, it seems like he's been teething for MONTHS, well we finally have the tip of a tooth that emerged over the course of this past 4 days, along with runny and stuffy nose to the point he can't breath through it, coughing and overall miserableness.  I've given him medication to address the pain but he still has the nose congestion which prevents him from sucking his thumb to self soothe because he has to breath through his mouth and using an aspirator just doesn't cut it.  Here's his average routine:

6 a.m. -- awake
6:15/6:30 -- bottle (6 oz)
6:30-8 -- play with various toy on his play area in front of the tv or crawl around the house
7:30 -- 5 tbsp oatmeal with bananas
8/8:30 -- morning nap -- he can't stay awake more then 2.5 hours and usually starts rubbing eyes and whining at 2 hr:15 min
             he naps from 1.5 hours to 2 hours and he usually goes to sleep within 5-10 minutes of me putting him down with no help
10:00 --  bottle (6 oz)
11:00 --  solid food (at least 3.5 oz and sometimes up to 7 oz depending on how hungry he is)
12:15 --  2nd nap -- usually 1.5 - 2 hours with minimal help from me to get him to sleep
2:00 --   bottle (6 oz)
3:00 --  solids (same as above)
5:00 --  3rd nap for 1 - 1.5 hours
6/6:30 -- activity
6:45/7 -- solids
7/7:30 -- start bedtime routine (if bath then start at 7, otherwise start at 7:30, diaper, 8 oz bottle, story, bed)
8 -- down in bed -- he then mantra cries, stands up in crib (can't sit back down yet), plays around and tosses and turns with periods of laying down for the next 45 minutes before going to sleep.  In the meantime, I have to go in numerous times and lay him back down, though he's usually not crying (unless he standing up) so I'm confused as to what i'm supposed to do.  I just lay him down and then he starts playing with me like its a game and he rolls onto his back, looks at me and starts talking and playing with me hands and stuff.  So I turn him over say its nighttime and walk out, which prompts him to cry, whine, stand up and then I have to come in again and lay him down or he tries to lay down himself and hits his face/head and cries prompting me to come in again.  He does eventually go to sleep though. 

Then he wakes randomly at night, could be at 11:30 as it was a few nights ago and he didn't go back to sleep until 4:15 after the hubby and I constantly going in there soothing him, not always picking him up but just sitting on a stool at crib side with our hands on his back and he'd calm then start to play around even though he'd yawning and rubbing his eyes and obviously sleepy.  My hubby even laid down on the floor on side of crib with hand through slats on DS and he went to sleep only to pop back up again 5 minutes later because he couldn't breath through nose and couldn't suck thumb.  The following night he woke at 2 a.m. and didn't go to sleep until 4:15 again this time the only way I could get him to sleep was laying on my (I KNOW THIS IS A BIG NO NO but I needed some sleep stat!!!). 

I know a lot of this week has been the cold and the teething.  But prior to this he was having night waking issues where he'd stay up for 2 hours, randomly, in the middle of the night, just sitting there, sucking his thumb or playing with the Ernie doll we are trying to use as a comfort item.  He won't cry, and as I watch him on the monitor I see he's still sleepy because he lays down several times and is still and I think he's asleep then he pops back up, sits up and starts swinging Ernie around or starts hitting the slats on the crib or starts mumbling to himself then after 2 hours he'd just lay back down and go to sleep.  That was last week, before he could stand up, now, I don't think he will just "go back to sleep" because he will stand up and I will have to go in and lay him back down.  Whenever he sees me he thinks its play time.  he's comforted to see me and likes for me to have my hand on his back and he will close his eyes and seem like he's going to sleep but then he gets playful and I know he can't sleep if I'm in the room.

We are going on vacation next week so I have no hopes of fixing this problem immediately but I want to know how to fix this when we get back?  I honestly don't think he can handle longer activity times, I've tried and he just gets unbearable and his naps are so bad.  But so many people tell me he shouldn't be having that 3rd nap.  And also, when he has the 3rd nap, we put him to bed later, could that be the reason for the night wakings???  If he wakes during the night and isn't crying and isn't standing, should I go in there?  What if he stays up for 2 hours -- should I intervene? 

any advice would be greatly appreciated! 

P.S.  He's been on a routine since 4 months, has been sleeping through the night since 5 months and usually sleeps avg of 10-12 hours a night but hasn't done that in 2 weeks!!!! 

[becj86]

Well, you seem to have hit the sleep disturbance motherlode!

I think though, that your routine is really the biggest issue. Your baby is going to bed undertired from all that day sleep but is getting overtired very quickly in the morning because his night is not long enough to properly restore him. The undertiredness at bedtime is the cause of the long night wakings when he just doesn't want to go to sleep.

I would do what you have to do while you're on your trip and do this when you come back:
6 - awake
9:30 - nap
11 - up
2:30 - nap
4 - wake
7 - in bed asleep (ie, put in bed at 6:45 so he's asleep by 7)

This is prime time for separation anxiety. Have a read through this, as it may be playing a part in this too: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=212037.0

[mmjones]

Thanks Bex!  Yeah i've hit the mother load indeed lol.  I noticed you suggest his awake times be 3.5 hours at a stretch -- I have zero confidence that he's ready for this yet.  Should I be doing it gradually? Or all of a sudden.  As i've said, I've tried to keep him up past 2.5 hours and it takes him forever to get to sleep for his nap because he's overtired by this time.  For example, yesterday when I picked him up from daycare he'd been up 3.5 hours and when I got him home he went right to sleep BUT he only sleep 36 minutes and prior to that nap his other 2 naps had only been 35 minutes and 50 minutes.  When he woke after 36 min for his 3rd nap I did pd (no pick up) for an hour and 10 minutes till his next feed time just to re-establish the routine and reinforce that he shouldn't take short naps.  Last night for bedtime, I put him down after he'd been up for 2 hr 45 min (including the 1 hr 10 min of pd dance with me) and he went to sleep after 29 minutes of pd by daddy but he slept from 8pm to 2:09 a.m. then when I went in and put him down at 2 and left out I had to go back in one more time and put him down then I sat with him with my hand on his aback and he fell asleep within 10 minutes and didn't wake again until 6:30.

So my questions I guess are: 1) should he be having a 3.5 hour awake time? 2) do I need to gradually ease him into an extended awake time? 3) should he be eating every 5 hours now instead of 4?

[becj86]

He's having the A time of a typical 5 month old at the moment. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0

Here's my theory: I think he's taking a long time to go to sleep because he's undertired, rather than overtired and your short naps may be related to understimulation because he's not awake doing many activities and also because he's lying there not doing much for so long before he goes to sleep. I suspect that when he gets whiney, he may just be bored and would just need a change of scenery to perk back up again.

You may need to ease him in gently or that process may happen gradually while you're on holidays just through circumstance and I think when you get home you could probably go straight to the new routine but keep a close eye on him for OT and make sure you resettle and OT naps you may get.

Usually by this age, LO's are getting some solids with a drink at least 2 times per day, so food intake isn't actually 5hr apart, just milk feeds are that far apart with solids in between. LO's can't be expected to go 5hr without food intake during the day or they'll be up more at night, but they should be taking pretty substantial milk feeds when they do. The main exception to this is for a reflux baby who may not be able to keep a larger amount of milk down in which case, you'd split the feed.

[mmjones]

Thanks Bex!!! I appreciate the advice and I knew the 5 hours was for milk not solids.  We started testing this out yesterday and he did fine during the day but was up for 2 hours starting at midnight and didn't go back to sleep until we 1) aspirated his nose and 2) fed him a 5 oz bottle.  I'm still getting the hang of increasing his solid food during the day so hopefully while he's at daycare today they will follow our new schedule and I think we will have plenty of time to work on it while on vacation next week.

I will keep you posted!

[mmjones]

One more thing -- when he does wake and I need to to pu/pd how am i supposed to do it?  Should I just go in and put him down when he's standing, say something reassuring and walk out?  I've noticed that he gets playful when I stay in the room with him most times.  What if he's not crying -- which is usually the case, but he's standing up? 

[becj86]

What if he's not crying -- which is usually the case, but he's standing up?

This is when you leave him to it - otherwise he'll think its a game! Don't want to be playing at 2am, right?

Now he's able to stand, there's no PU to it - here are the age/mobility adaptations:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=208990.0

I think you need to sort out the congestion before you start STing - if he's unable to soothe himself the way he usually does, he may just need a little TLC til he's better - that should help with the SA/less mummy-time issues too.

That's another thing, he could be waking to spend some time with you if he's suddenly having lots less time with you. Lots of cuddles and quality time when you are at home should help with that too.

[mmjones]

Ok so we are back and heres a recap of our vacation:
He had a cold prior to leaving, turned into an ear infection during the trip coupled with teething (he cut a tooth during trip too).  So lots of accidental/on purpose parenting happened in that week.  He slept in a crib for all naps and always had 2 a day but the length was inconsistent, most times he slept 2.5 each nap and at night (his crib was in our room) he'd go to sleep in his crib with minimal aid from us (sometime we had to just stand with our hand on his back but he'd go to sleep pretty easy) but wake in the middle of the night standing in crib crying and SUPER congested so we'd suction his nose, tend to his fever and then try to put him back down in the crib which wasn't happening because he could see us and wanted to be in bed with me, so for 6 days he slept at least part of the night on me or next to me in bed. oh we were also feeding him during the night wakings because he hadn't been eating properly during the day due to his illness and teething.

Fast forward to our return home:  on Sunday night he was fine because we were traveling all day and he was so wiped out he slept like a log that night but did wake once and we fed him and he stayed up for about and hour and a 1/2 needing me to constantly sit with my hand on his back or patting him before he'd go to sleep.  Then he woke up on Monday and was a totally different kid.  EXTRA clingy, wouldn't let me out of his sight, demanding that I hold him all the time and crying a cry so painful to hear that I've never heard before.  His infection is all cleared up and he's done with meds but his teething is in full swing.  He went back to daycare on Wednesday and they also said he needed to be carried all day and screamed when they put him down.  He had his 9 month doctors appointment today and doc said all is well with him but he also said he sees 4 more teeth about to cut so the next 2 weeks should be interesting.

Most of our troubles are at night though because of his multiple wakings and for long periods of time it throws off when he and i wake up in the mornings.  We should be waking at 6 - 6:30 but if he woke at 4:30 and didn't go back to sleep till after 5 I let him sleep (so that I can get a little more sleep) till he wakes, usually about 7:30.  Of course this throws off naps and feedings for the rest of day and bedtime, so there has really been no consistency this week.  Also, I don't know what to do about his clingyness.  I think its separation anxiety but i don't know which approach to use (the walk in walk out or the gradual approach).  It should be noted that from months 5 to 9 he slept 10-12 hours through the night no problem.  for the past 2 nights I've slept at his crib side and when he woke in the middle of the night and sat up/tried to stand I'd say "mommy is here" and have to stick my hand in the crib and touch him or pat him and most times he's go back to sleep within 20 minutes.  Last night however, he was up for an hour.  Also, he tends to wake 2 times a night at different times and most times he can't sleep if i'm in the room -- he wants to play but he also seems to need to know i'm there by having me touch him.

I am so lost as to what to do.  We've tried the walk in walk out method a little this week too and he stands in his crib and hollers so loud and though he's finally figured out how to sit down he won't even after 5 minutes or so, though he stops crying during that time and just rests his head on the crib.

What to do what to do what to do???!!!!!!!

[becj86]

How old is he now?

Have a read of this - some SA tips http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=212037.0

Are you doing anything for the teething pain?

[mmjones]

He is 9 months old and 1 week.  For the teething pain we alternate between tylenol, teething tablets and occasionally orajel (which he hates).  I don't think any of it really works for him and he doesn't like "cold" things.  He just wants to chew on hard stuff all the time.

Thanks for the link. I've checked it out before and have implemented some of the tips - they aren't working yet but hopefully they will.

And by the way -- he's a combo of textbook and touchy.  Funny he seems to calm quickly and do well with the hand on the back when Daddy does it but when I do it he wants to look at me, grab for me, play with me and just be on me in general.  I used to be the good one at this lol now Daddy is stealing my crown.

[becj86]

I used to be the good one at this lol now Daddy is stealing my crown.

Let him! LOL

Sounds like these teeth are really hurting him. This is also an age at which DS had a growth spurt and the first one we noticed he had growing pains - squeezing his legs and arms working gradually from the torso to the end of the limbs helped.

I don't know that there's much in the way of training that you can do til these teeth cut, hon. He's not going to learn anything much and its going to be super frustrating for you all. I'd stick with DH's hand on his back while it works. FWIW, DS still needs extra TLC when teething, its not a pleasant thing to have pain that is apparently like a bad toothache but constant for at least a few days, if not weeks and they don't understand what's going on or that it'll stop, poor little things

[mmjones]

update -- so ds was generally miserable all last week while adjusting to being back from vacation, being back in day care and teething.  then on Saturday, like a miracle, he woke up NORMAL!  our sweet, playful, independent child had returned out of the blue (for the most part).  he played by himself and we could walk out of the room without him screaming bloody murder and he wasn't as clingy.  his naps weren't really disrupted much through this whole process but for the sporadic nature of them (sometimes his morning nap was long others his afternoon nap was long but he always napped).  The issue we'd been having was with the night wakings and we are still having them but per your advice I held off doing training till the teething stopped.  So on Saturday we noticed one of his 4 top teeth had finally cut and he seemed back to happy Brady so I figured that was the problem all along.  he's been behaving great during waking hours for the past 3-4 days, and so I've been experimenting with sleep trying to assess the damage of accidental parenting we've done over the past few weeks.  for the past 3 weeks we've been helping him sleep by putting our hand on his back or patting his back or just sitting in the room with him next to his crib so he knows we are there.  I kicked that up a notice last week when I thought his problem was separation anxiety and teething.  So last night, when I knew teething wasn't in play, when he woke for the first night waking I let him whine/mantra cry off and on for 20 minutes to see if he would in fact sit himself down (I wasn't sure if his issue was that he knew how to stand but couldn't sit himself down and that's why he needed us to come in).  During that time he sat himself down 4 times and got right back up so the issue wasn't that he needed my help to sit down, the issue was that he needed my hand on his back to sleep BUT the catch is that having me in the room is a distraction most times and he ends up laying there as if trying to go to sleep for like 5-10 minutes then pop up and start playing with my hand or smiling at me or standing grabbing for me playfully and I end up having to leave the room just for him to "reset" to bedtime mode before we can move forward.  As you can imagine this is very time consuming in the middle of the night and he does this like 3-4 times a night!!!

So last night after I did the set to see if he could sit himself down, I went in and pd and sat with my hand on his back for 25 minutes and just when I thought he was asleep -- playtime!!!!  So then I switched to WIWO but I think i was doing it wrong, possibly staying out of the room too long...I'm not sure.  I'd stay out for a minute or two and his cries were usually mantra or angry cries and MOST of the time they would stop and start during the time I was out of the room.  I did that 22 times for an hour and he NEVER stayed down on his own, the final time I did pd I sat next to the crib (he wasn't looking at me though and I wasn't talking to him) and he'd pop his head up quickly to see if I was there and I'd have to put my hand on his back then take it off -- he was sleep within 10 minutes.  BUT he woke up an hour later screaming and standing!! I wasn't sure if he was hungry or not (I'm never really sure if he's going through a growth spurt or not since he is 9.5 months old but he doesn't ever really do a "hungry" cry and he's a greedy child -- he's never turned away food -- whether hungry or not) but I fed him a full bottle and he chugged it in a zombie like state, was sleep when he finished and when I put him down in his crib and as soon as I turned my back he popped up and was standing and whining -- I had to sit next to the bed with my hand on his back before he'd lay down and he was sleep within 5 minutes.  I slept on his floor out of view just so I wouldn't have to get out of bed again if he woke again during nthe night.  That was at 3:30 in the morning -- he didn't wake again until 7:15.

Fastforward to today.  He took 2 naps at daycare but only for a total of 1.5 hours (unusual for him).  When I picked him up he'd been awake for 30 minutes.  When we got him I tried to feed him some solid food since it had been 3 hours since he last fed and he was fussy and pulling hair and sucking them like he does when he's sleepy.  So I take him up to his room to change his diaper, while singing our diaper song and he IMMEDIATELY started SCREAMING when we walked into his room!!! I've NEVER seen him do this before.  I couldn't calm him at all.  Changing him was such a chore.  So I though for sure he's sleepy and I sat in the rocker with him -- he started contorting and bending trying so very hard to get out of my arms even though I wasn't constraining him or anything then I put him on the floor and he was still screaming then I tried to feed him his bottle that he just COULDN'T wait for so I gave it to him slightly cold and he wouldn't drink it -- it was like nothing I did calmed him except when I took him into the office and sat in there with him.  I mean he was crying so hard I wanted to cry too because I couldn't fix it -- then I gave him some tylenol thinking maybe it was his teeth again (his doctor did say he saw 4 coming in up top and I can see the one next to the one that cut last week pushing against the gum).  Then I took him downstairs, warmed his bottle and he drank the whole thing and whined when it was done and started squirming and fighting like he didn't know what he wanted to do.  Eventually he let me put him down and he started playing alone with his toys like nothing ever happened.

I am so devastated and scared that his behavior is the result of my inconsistency from last night.  I'm afraid and insecure about doing it again.  The WIWO method is so foreign to me since its not in the books and i haven't had a chance to really study it and get knowledgeable about it I don't feel as confident in doing it and thus I let the kid break me.  

I know you said that we shouldn't try training while he's teething but that could be weeks and what do we do in the mean time?  I don't want to continue accidental parenting and get him used to us (aka me) sitting with him with my hand on his back multiple times a night -- i can't sleep like that nightly. Also, the teething stops and starts randomly so again what to do in the meantime.  I am just so lost and really shaken from today's encounter as he has NEVER EVER cried like this before even when we did pu/pd when he was younger.  

That was so extra long and I'm so sorry -- just need help bad!

Oh and his routine hasn't changed -- except that he now gets his bottle AND solid food together every 5 hours (per doctor) and he naps every 3-3.5 hours unless for some reason they couldn't get him to nap at daycare (which happens often) in which case he may be awake for 5 hours before I can put him down for a nap -- he's getting 3-4 hours daytime sleep (on daycare days) and 3 hours sleep on most other days.  Bedtime is anywhere from 7:30 to 8:30 depending on what time he woke that morning and it takes at LEAST 30 minutes to get him to actually go to sleep.

[becj86]

Bedtime is anywhere from 7:30 to 8:30 depending on what time he woke that morning and it takes at LEAST 30 minutes to get him to actually go to sleep.

So what time is he waking?

I'll have a think and get back to you when DS is asleep

[mmjones]

He wakes between 6:30 and 7:30 am but that all depends on when his last night waking was -- most times the last one is around 3:30/4 a.m. the later it is the later he'll sleep. So with the nightwakings and the time it takes to get him back to sleep he averages 8.5 hours of broken sleep per night (4 hrs here, 2 hours there, etc.) One night he only got 6 total hours of sleep because he was up for like 3 hours in the middle of the night.

[becj86]

except that he now gets his bottle AND solid food together every 5 hours (per doctor)

What's the reasoning for this? Just wondering as some of this sounds like discomfort.

I'd guessing a bit here, but your routine looks something like this, I think:
6:30 - awake
9:30 - nap
11:30 - up
2:30 - nap
4:30 - up
7:30 - asleep for the night

If so, that's a lot of day sleep for a baby of 9 months and I'd say you were dealing with undertiredness through the night - causes long happy playful night wakings. Then he's sleeping heaps in the day to catch up on the bad night and it turns into a vicious cycle and can result in OT. I'm not totally clear on where he is, so feel ill-equipped to guide you on a plan without first asking some questions.
What's he like during the day at the moment?
What's he like if you have to push his A time?
Is he sleeping full naps independently or does he need assistance to get through transitions?
When he wakes at night, when do you go in? Straight away or when he's crying? Does his crying escalate when you go into the room?