no idea why?confused!early morning wakings....help!

[*happy*]

(hope im posting in the right place!)

Morning all!
I'm in need of advice.my 5 month old has started waking earlier & earlier in the morn...it's not a major issue at the mo (was getting her up at 7.30am...this morn she woke me at 6.30am) but i want to avoid it becoming one!!!

she has been a super night sleeper since 8 weeks-i used to have to wake her-, but naps have always been trickier. our typical easy currently is:

E 07.30
A
S 08.45 (i know she wakes during this nap coz i can often hear her shuffling but i almost never have to resettle her-she's puts herself back to sleep, even though it seems that she might be awake for 15-20 mins in between)


E 11.30
A
S 13.15 (she sleeps less at this nap, sometimes not pushing through the 45 miins, sometimes waking & chatting to herself & settling herself back, sometimes waking & giving out to me until i open curtains!)


E 15.00
A
S 16.45-17.15 (always a 25-35 min nap while we go for a walk in buggy)

E 18.00
A

E 19.00
S

Dreamfeed  22.30

i realise how lucky i am with her, but i really dont want her to get into bad habits!the EW is obviously a result of me not doing/doing something!!!!!really would appreciate advice on tweaking easy if need be, or anything else!!!!!

[becj86]

Sounds like its time to push the A times and move towards dropping the catnap! The EW and stirring during naps/short napping are the signs you need to push the A time up. Doing it now while she's saying it relatively quietly is heaps easier than doing when she's screaming it with OT from the short naps and short nights.

Are you right to do that or would you like a sample routine?

[*happy*]

can i just say yet again how EXCELLENT this site is!!!!!love love love it!!!!it has been my saving grace SOOOOOOOOOO many times!!!!have been recommending it to all my mammy friends!!!!

would LOVE a sample routine!!!!thank you so much!!!

i know it's usually the first A time that is recommened to stretch out, but i'm not too sure how she'll do with that if i'm honest. i've slowly pushed the 2nd feed from 10.30-11.30 recently,but haven't really made much of a change to her A time in the morning-she always seems to be ready to go back into the cot within an hour!i don't find it hard to get the 4hr stretch from her at this time. the following stretch is always harder to do....hence why i'm on 3.5 easy here (11.30, 15.00)

would you suggest dropping a feed too so?i'm breastfeeding,so am paranoid about getting enough into her!!!(no prob with weight so far though-in 75th percentile for weight & 90th for height)

dropping the catnap....im assuming then that you would bring BT forward a bit to accomodate?&that the 2nd daytime nap would be later?!

[becj86]

I would say her body rhythm is such she'll do best with a nap at 9ish in the morning but you do risk her tacking that first nap onto her night and refusing bedtime.

This routine is based on the natural biorhythms that tend to mean LO's like naps around 9am and 1 or 2pm:
7 - wake, BF
9 - nap
10:30 - wake, BF
(fit in a BF around 1:30 to keep the number up, just don't feed to sleep or if you drop # of feeds, just feed at 11 after ~30mins activity and wait til after the next nap before the next feed)
2 - nap
3:30/4 - wake, BF
6:30 - BT BF
7 - asleep in bed

This is what we did:
7 - up & BF
10 - nap
11:30/12 - up & BF
3 - nap
4:30 - up & BF
6:30 - BT BF
7 - asleep in bed
(DS was happy with feeds this far apart as he had always wanted feeds further apart than the typical baby and he had started tiny bits of solids around 5 months.)

Go with your gut on numbers for feeds. DS was fine with less feeds than 'normal' and I was frequently harrassed by the child health nurses to feed him more often and he was always horribly gassy and cranky when I did.

[*happy*]

thanks!have had a good look at those routines....just not sure how i'll manage to add an extra hour onto the morning routine!!!!i guess i'll start with 10-15 mins & see how it works.at the moment,we barely leave the bedroom!!!i feed her there (in nursing chair where i do all her feeds!) ,get her dressed & have a little chat on the bed...it's all very laid back!!!as i said in the other post,she will happily go 4 hours at this stage,but it's the next feed that gets tricky!she shows sleepy cues after around the 1hr 30min mark...do i just ignore them & push on for another 10-15 mins?!

just when you think you have it all figured out,they go & change,don't they!!!

[clazzat]

When they have been on a routine for a while they often show sleepy cues at the time when they are used to going down rather than when they are genuinely sleepy. I think you are right to start pushing it out by 10-15 minutes at a time until you get to a longer a first thing. I must say, though, that for all of mine the first a was shorter than the others for quite a while, so some of them do need to go back to bed earlier than you expect.

Another thing - cues start to become a bit less reliable at about this age, and what was a sleepy cue before might just be a boredom cue now. It is worth aiming to have a change of scenery round about the time lo normally goes down to see if they can cope with a little bit more.

[*happy*]

great,will def try that trick!!!the first of many deceptive tactics to be used as a parent,i'm sure!!!
fed her at 11am there & will aim not to feed till 3pm if possible.will def try to extend A time by 15 mins at this session anyway.will let ye know how it goes!x

[*happy*]

yay!!!!kept her up 2 hrs (longest yet) & jst popped her into her cot now & she's settling to sleep already,no whinges or moans (that i often would have gotten at this nap) yay yay yay!!!now to see how long it lasts!!!!thank you so much ladies!!!geniuses!!!

[*happy*]

so...here goes today's easy so far....should i aim to drop catnap today or wait?

E 7am
A
S 8.15

E 11am
A
S 1.05pm (into cot at 1pm)

it's now 2.45pm & she's still in cot!she stirred abit alright, a couple of moans,but i didn't need to resettle her,she did it herself.

now what?!?!?!
should i let her do catnap as usual, then feed at 6pm & 7pm as i have been doing?
or should i cut back on her catnap?ie wake her after 10-15 mins?

[clazzat]

I guess it's too late now, but I would not have done a cn on that day. What did you do?

[*happy*]

i didnt!!!put her in buggy as per usual-she usually falls asleep after 15-20 mins & sleeps for 25-35 mins,but she hadnt fallen asleep by 5.30,so i took her in & fed her instead.gonna do bath in a few mins & then bedtime.....keep your fingers crossed for me that we don't have a meltdown!!!!

[*happy*]

asleep in cot!poor pet was exhausted!fell asleep feeding whch very rarely happens.stirred her a bit alright so she wasn't in a deep sleep putting her into cot,but also didnt feed v much-only 10 mins (usualy would be closer to 30)....fingers crossed this works!x

[clazzat]

Fingers crossed for the night - sounds like a great day to start with, though!

[*happy*]

will post again in the morning...fingers,toes,everything crossed!!!thanks so much for the advice...i'm such a novice!!!

[becj86]

i'm such a novice!!!

We all are Having a child is a bit of a journey of discovery...

Looks like it was a good day, fingers crossed for your night!

[*happy*]

well!just an update on the night....& seeking more advice!!!
i'm not sure if it was because i was anticipating it, but i heard her shuffling etc a few times during the night-for all i know,she may have been doing this other nights too,but i am sleeping through it!!!!she went down,out like a light at 7pm last night.i fed her as usual at 10.30pm. she woke me at 7am (30 mins before i used to have to wake her but a def improvement from the 6am start!) babbling & chatting to herself. (i know that's not early!!!!!i must seem like sucha a moanie-minnie!!!!)  the time doesn't bother me,it's just the change in her routine!7am is fine,but i dont want it to get worse-5am would be a little more challenging!!!!just want to nip any problems in the bud before they become big issues.as you say,easier to sort it now while she's whispering it to me before it becomes a shout!!!

today is gonna be a wonky one anyway because we have a doc appointment at 10.45. so i put her back into her cot without tryign to stretch A time because i'll be cutting her nap short by an hour at least. she's asleep since 8.30. we'll see what way the day goes i guess....check in on me with advice please,won't ye?  journey of discovery is an understatement!!!

[becj86]

out like a light at 7pm last night.i fed her as usual at 10.30pm. she woke me at 7am

That's a perfect 12hr night, just what you want when you're shifting to a new routine and means she's coping well. I think you need to have wakeup at 7am so the 9am nap doesn't shrink prematurely.

With the wonky day, you can pop in a CN if you need to get her through to BT - one long nap plus 2xCN is pretty common in the world of babies with siblings who get picked up from school It shouldn't hurt.

I think the shuffling is pretty normal - DS still shuffles a lot in his sleep. I change positions while I sleep

[*happy*]

thanks becj!
ya,don't mind at all starting the day at 7am....my day before she was born always started at 6.30am,so i've been having a lie-in really since she was born!!!


I think the shuffling is pretty normal - DS still shuffles a lot in his sleep. I change positions while I sleep

[/quote]

ya,that's what i mean....she could be shuffling all the time& i was probably oblivious!!!


all depends on how long the doc takes!!!!.....watch this space!!!!!

[becj86]

so i've been having a lie-in really since she was born!!!

Lucky you! Not a lot of people who can say that

[*happy*]

i know! she really is such an angel!

so far,here's the day....
question for all those more knowledgable than me.....
should i try to go without the cap nap & do early BT, or go back to having a catnap...?

awake 7am
E 7.20 am
A (didnt push this at all this morn coz of doc apt at 10.45)
S 8.30 am

awake at 10.10am when i went to wake her for doc apt.
E 11.30
A
S 12.50

awake at 2.45
E 2.50pm
A with her daddy right now!

[clazzat]

Once again, probably too late with it, but I would carry on with dropping the catnap - tbh, I would kill for my lo to sleep like yours does!

[*happy*]

no catnap again!!! wasn't sure if she would last,tbh,but she made it to 7.05pm...just about!!!
i know clazzat,we are SO lucky with her,we really are.because she's our first,we really have no idea just how lucky we are i think. she is absolutely THRIVING on BW advice though-i really do have to credit the philosphy so much with establishing good habits & avoiding bad ones.that's why i'm so delighted with the advice re catnap...it's not soemthing i ever would have thought of!!!! fingers crossed again for the night!

[clazzat]

In all fairness, my first one was like that and I used to get so stressed out when things went even slightly wrong. They have got progressively worse though...

[*happy*]

oh no clazzat,in what way?

[clazzat]

Dd2 was a touchy sleeper and didn't sttn until 18 months, although her daytime routine was perfect from about 4 months. Ds doesn't sttn and doesn't nap well either, so he gets way too little sleep. Just as well we're not planning a fourth, as that one would probably never sleep at all!

[*happy*]

oh jeepers!!!! tough going!

i'm just about coping with the angel that we have...feel like i have no right to say that considering she seems to be angel/textbook...

[*happy*]

back again with a concern!

here's today's easy

wake 7am
E 7.18
A
into cot 8.29am
S 8.45am

E 11.36 (i had to stir her awake for this feed by making a little noise-right or wrong,i'm not sure!)
A
into cot 13.22
S 13.25

awake 15.13
E 15.30
A

E 17.35
A (bath)

E 18.43

we are coping ok without the catnap in the evenings(by going for some downtime in buggy outside),but she is so wrecked by the bedtime feed that she's feeding to sleep,something she has never done.if i bring BT earlier, does that mean she wakes earlier?if so, that means we'll have come full circle from my original issue of early wakings!!!!

[becj86]

if i bring BT earlier, does that mean she wakes earlier?

Not necessarily - maybe bring BT forward by 10-15mins and see how she does - you may be able to get her into bed awake and have her sleeping at the same time, just not on the breast.

[*happy*]

still struggling!!!another EW this morning again....help!!!

[becj86]

What time did she go to bed? What time did she wake?
What was her day like?

[*happy*]

yesterday's easy

E 07.19
A
into cot 08.50
S 09.03

E 11.27
A
into cot 13.16
S 13.18 (!!!)

awake 15.00
E 15.22
A (friends called @4.30pm with their 2 kids, 9&2 YO-things a little louder than normal!)
17.00 walk in buggy for 20 mins to chill! (avoiding catnap)

E 17.30
A

E 18.30
into cot 19.02
S 19.07

dreamfeed 22.30  (usually goes almost straight back to sleep after this feed but last night, it took her 20 mins-not distressed or anything, just some chatting to herself etc)


awake this morning at 6.40 (which i know isn't early & she did SSTN, so i'm honestly not complaining, just want to figure it out!!!)

does that shed any light on thigns for you?!

[becj86]

Can you hold onto the same day routine for another few days and see what happens? Just don't want to tweak based on one day... Most people would be ecstatic at that night but if she is doing it consistently, we can probably shift things around a bit to the wakeup a little later if you want to. I don't think that you're looking at a whisper of anything not working just yet.

[*happy*]

will do!
i know!!!we are totally spoiled with her!!!!i don't minding startign the day @7am at all-it's still at lie in from my 6.30am starts that i had for work!!!it's more for her-i want her as content as possible, if you know what i mean.if she's happiest starting the day at 6am,no bothers,but just don't want it to affect the rest of her day...don't know if that makes any sense!!!