How do I get my 7 month old to sleep 12 hours and on a predictable routine?

[TishBKs mom]

Hello,

My LTO is almost 7 months old. I think I accidentally created an on demand baby. I fed him only when his cues told me to and gave him his nap when his cues told me... I refrained from putting him to bed after his bath because it was way too early... sometimes his last bottle would be 5:00 p.m. in which I would normally bathe after then put to bed but it was too early so I waited until he showed signs of being tired. But I still followed EASY. However, I do not have a predictable routine. It seems to be different by the day. My first child was super easy to predict, I never had a problem. My 7 month old is a textbook baby. I don't know where I went wrong. He also tends to wake up around 10 p.m. and midnight and I give him his pacifier to go back to sleep. How do I get him to sleep 12 hours at night with no interruption and how do I get his naps on track and to last more than 45 minutes?
Please help!
I read Tracy's 3rd book and I think it confused me and I only read the first one with my first child and I didn't have any trouble interpreting it.  Maybe I'm looking at the clock now... I know for sure I didn't before. I would re-read the first book again but don't have time anytime soon and I am desperate for sleep!

Here are some sample days:


Awake/eat 5:55 a.m. 8 oz
S 9:20-10:35
E 10:50 8 oz
S 2:15-3:00
E 3:00 8 oz
S 6:40 8 oz

next day

Awake/Eat 5:15 a.m. 8 oz
S 6:50-7:50
E 10:00 8 oz
S 11:35-12:25
E 1:45 8 oz
S 2:25-3:50
E 5:40 8 oz
S 6:45

Next day

Awake/Eat: 5:30 a.m. 8 oz
S 7:50-9:10
E 9:15 8 oz
S 11:20-11:48
E 1:45 8 oz
(napped off and on because we were out running errands)
E 5:40 8 oz
S 6:45 p.m.

He wakes up normally around 4 a.m. crying, I give him his pacifier and sometimes he can go back to sleep, sometimes I have to pick him up and hold him until he gets back to sleep, but he wakes up once I put him down.

Yesterday
Awake/eat 4:30 a.m. (went to bed at 7:00 p.m.) 8 oz
S 8:50-9:20
E 9:25 8 oz
S 12:15-1:00
E 1:05 8 oz
S 3:00-4:00
E 4:15 8 oz
S 5:30
A 7ish 5 oz bottle, back to sleep

Today he was up from 3-5 a.m. off and on...
Awake/Eat 5 a.m. 8 oz
slept off and on 6-7:00
E 8:50 8 oz
S 9:15-10:00
E 12:25 8 oz
S 1:25-2:35
E 3:45 8 oz
S 5:10-7:00
Eating again 7:30 (6 oz)
I will now give him his bath and get him to bed right away but I will hold him upright for awhile because of his acid reflux

The other day he woke up at his usual super early time of 5 a.m. he ate and I was able to get him back to sleep after, but I laid with him and we slept until 8:30 a.m. I know this will create a bad habit but I am so desperate for sleep! So lately I have been putting him back to bed after his morning feeding in his crib and will sleep an hour in there. The rest of the day seems to be the same nap wise.
Thank you for any and all input

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi
When is BT? It looks like it's around 17:30-18ish, is that right? I think that's too early and also causes him to wake up pretty early for the day.
If we can manage and put him on a later BT then hopefully he will wake up later for the day and won't need to go a morning nap so short after waking up (which I think messes with your day quite a bit).
The first thing I would do is set a BT hour, I guess most parents decide any time between 19 and 20, aiming for a 12h night approx. and a WU at 7-8. Would that suit your family? That would mean that you stick to BT at the same hour while we are tweaking and will deal with an EW as an NW - in your case feed and straight back to sleep. Anything before 6 you count as EW and do what it takes to get him back to sleep. If he feeds and after an hour goes back to sleep you wake up at 7-8.
The next thing I do is work on extending his A time. He doesn't seem far from what he needs (when he is doing over 3h), but the 45min naps makes me think he is Ut and needs more A. 2h A time is really not enough at his age anymore.
IIWY I would start and stick to a 3:15h A time for the next 4 days. If you can log them and we can have a look at them then it would be great. After those 4 days we can see if naps are better or if he needs another increase. I can tell you already that you are probably going to get some OT naps and perhaps OT NW, this is normal and there is no way around it really. You just need to stick to your guns and stay consistent with the higher A time.
Saying that, if you feel he is getting very OT then put him to sleep when you think right.

Hopefully increasing the A will get you better naps and then the day can go a bit longer than 18 and that will also help with pushing the WU in the morning.
I wouldn't worry so much about props as much as getting him on a better routine and times.
What do you think?

[TishBKs mom]

Yes his bottle time is between 17:00 & 18:00.  I tried a few times in the past to feed him later so he wouldn't wake up so early but he still did. But it was a dream feed and I didn't do it for days in a row. I also didn't want to overfeed him because he is already at the maximum allowed amount of formula for a 24 hour period so it made me feel a little bad that I overfed him. But I guess if it's just for a few days it shouldn't have a long term effect. Today was a little off napwise because we had a funeral but he had a bottle at 17:30, he had a bath and was asleep by 18:40. But I woke him up at 20:10 and fed him and he was back to sleep at 21:00. I will log the next 4 days and hopefully we have something to work with.
 I also don't know how the 3 hour 15 minute awake time will work because he eats every 4 hours so then he will probably still have a 45 minute nap.
 I have also thought that his 45 minute naps meant he wasn't tired enough, so I would try keeping him up for his second bottle but then he would fall asleep while eating... I would do my best to keep him awake and change his diaper once he was done, and sometimes he will want to sleep right away or was wide awake in which I waited for tired cues and laid him down then. When I did this some days he would sleep 1 hr 30 mins- 2 hours or sometimes he would sleep only 30 minutes.
But I will definitely extend his activity time regardless.

 I will log and post back and hope for a miracle
Thank you SO MUCH for your response!

[*Kara*]

I also didn't want to overfeed him because he is already at the maximum allowed amount of formula for a 24 hour period so it made me feel a little bad that I overfed him

Just popping on to mention that it's very rare for a baby to overeat.. there is no maximum amount of formula for him to have either.  Babies are amazing at regulating how much they eat so don't worry about that too much.  Have you introduced solids at all?

I also just noticed that you sometimes wake him to eat after he has been in bed... don't wake him   If you are going to do a DF, that's fine, but you don't want to wake him up for it - that will just disrupt sleep and can perpetuate baby waking more at night.

[Ima shel Alon]

I also just noticed that you sometimes wake him to eat after he has been in bed... don't wake him   If you are going to do a DF, that's fine, but you don't want to wake him up for it - that will just disrupt sleep and can perpetuate baby waking more at night.

Yep. And also you could try and delay the DF to 22-23, before you go to bed. It doesn't need to be as early as 20, unless he wakes up.

Is he on solids already? If you think he will wake up from hunger then you can give the solids in the middle of the A time or you give them an hour after feeding and then give another top up of milk before nap. Like you said, if you change a nappy and have 5min more of A time between feeding and sleeping, there is no reason why he would associate feeding with sleeping. Some babies just like their tummy full when they go to sleep.

[TishBKs mom]

thank you. His pediatrician had told me that babies should not exceed 32 oz of formula a day, I have also read this before. So I was just concerned that I would overfeed him when. But if this isn't true I will not worry about this. He just started solids. I normally give him a jar with his 2nd and 3rd bottle but giving it an hour after or a few before his nap is a good idea. He seems to sleep better on a full tummy.
I should correct myself, I do not wake him up to eat (not in the past) I use to try to dream feed but it never extended his sleep time so I stopped. But this past Wednesday night I did wake him, because he was ready for bed after his "last" bottle which was around 17:30 so I woke him up to eat at 20:15 because I would like his last bottle to be at 20:00 each night. Maybe I read it wrong. Am I not suppose to wake him for his bottle time at 20:00? I would like him to take his last bottle at 20:00 from now on...
So Wednesday night I woke him at 20:15 to eat, he was in bed at 21:00 (he was up a couple times at night, either a pacifier or holding would help him back to sleep) BUT
Thursday
5:20 awake
6:20 eat
9:05-9:50 sleep
10:10 Eat
13:00-14:10 Sleep
15:00 Eat
17:00-18:00 sleep off and on... possibly overtired, before we actually got him to sleep he was very fussy, he came to the kitchen with me while I made dinner but that lasted 15 minutes and he began fussing again, so once he fell asleep in my arms (because he cried everytime I laid him down) it was like a restless sleep... he cried and cried
18:50 Eat
19:15 bed time
I did not wake him up to eat at the bottle time that I picked (20:00) because 1. I'm confused. I don't know what to do for feeding, wake him at 20:00 or dream feed... plus it was too close to his last feeding time that I didn't want to over extend his tummy and have him throw up... but now that I see I can dream feed at a later time?
`he was up about 3 times crying... he had to be held to get back to sleep
 
this morning he woke up at 5:10 and ate at 6:20 he was super fussy and laid down at 8:48, however he just woe up 9:11 maybe a noise woke him?

when we lay him for his naps (at times above) he is fussing and if we pick him up or change his scenary he will stop but once he is put down he cries... this means he's tired right?
I'm such a mess. It is also hard because I'm at work during the week and I am not sure my babysitter is understanding of what I am trying to do.
Thank you SO much for the help!


 

[Ima shel Alon]

I would like him to take his last bottle at 20:00 from now on...

So I think 20 should be your BT if you want it to be the last bottle. I still don't get the difference between this feed and a DF. Like Kara said, if you wake up a baby during night sleep you might disrupt his sleep.

5:20 awake
6:20 eat
9:05-9:50 sleep

So he was awake from 5:20 till 9:05??? That's a very long A for him. At his age he should have around 2.5-3h A time.
It sounds like he is very OT at the end of the day, that would explain the NW and the EW...

[TishBKs mom]

yes he was up that long... he seemed fine...   
he is in a pretty deep sleep at 20:00, do i wake him or just do a DF? since I'm trying to get him to sleep 12 hours at night 20:00ish-8:00 do I wake him at 20:00 or not because he's technically done for the day... and should I still give him a bottle at this time if he just ate 1 or 2 hours before?
Should he still eat, activity, sleep, repeat all day until it is time for bed. Or should he have only 2 naps?

[*Kara*]

he is in a pretty deep sleep at 20:00, do i wake him or just do a DF? since I'm trying to get him to sleep 12 hours at night 20:00ish-8:00 do I wake him at 20:00 or not because he's technically done for the day.

If you want him to sleep 8pm to 8am as his night sleep, he should be awake from 5pm-8pm.

Have you  had a look at some of the sample routines for a baby his age hun?

chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months

Many babies will have a routine similar to this at 7 months of age (using your 8am wakeup)

8am Wake/bottle
9am Solids as part of A time
11am - 1230pm Nap #1
1230pm bottle
130pm solids as part of A time (some will have this and others won't be ready for a second offering of solids just yet)
330-5pm Nap #2
5pm bottle
745pm bottle
8pm BT - asleep.

DF at 11pm (or if not using a DF, expect a single NF between 1-4am most often)  If you are really lucky, no NF and STTN (though not common).

He should be on two naps each day now

[TishBKs mom]

Hello 
I think things are getting a little better... but still not quite predictable... I think his naps are the root of the problem...

here are 4 samples of his day:
(I was home)
Awake 6:50
Eat 7:10
Sleep 10:00-11:00
Eat 12:00
Sleep 15:30-16:00
Eat 16:30
Eat 19:30
Bed 20:00

(next day) Babysitter
Awake/Eat 6:40
Solid food 8:00
Sleep 9:20-10:10
Eat BT 10:40
Solid food 12:00
Sleep 13:20-14:45 (I got home at his awake time)
Eat 16:45
Eat 18:45
Bed 7:20

next day (babysitter)
Awake 6:40 a.m.
Eat 6:45
Sleep 9:15-10:00
Solid food 10:00
Bottle 10:40
Sleep 12:55-13:55 (babysitter said he woke up and she put him back to sleep)
solid food 14:07
bottle 15:40 (I am home)
Sleep 16:20-17:00 (he was extremely cranky! I had to hold him for this nap)
Eat 7:10
Bed 7:55

next day (babysitter)
Awake 6:40
Eat 7:20
solid food 9:30
Sleep 10:30-13:07 (awoke and she put him back to sleep)
Eat 13:10 (I get home after this)
Sleep 16:00-16:15 (he was so cranky!!! I tried to get him to nap and it that's all we got)
Eat 16:45
Eat 18:55 (i pushed this feeding as long as I could, he was so cranky and I knew he wasn't going to be abe to make it for much longer)
Bed 19:15 (slept all night!!! for the very first time with no NW )

today
awake/eat 7:00
solid food 9:10
sleep 10:00-11:20
bottle 11:22
solid food 1:25
Sleep 14:05-???

Thank you for your input!!!
 

[Ima shel Alon]

I think the A is not consistent enough for you to find his right A. His first A is sometimes 2:40h, 3:10h or 3:50...

If you want to find his right A you'd need to choose a time and stick to it, and only if you still get UT naps then you up it each time by 10-15min.
IIWY I would start with 3:20 (because anything less than that anyway gives you an UT nap) and work it up from there.
I also think it's really important that you get the right A and have 2 good naps because right now his stretch till BT is a bit too long compared to his other A.
What do you think?

[TishBKs mom]

I think you are right about picking an A time and sticking with it and you're also right that he is OT at the end of the night and can't last until his last bottle... But if I do an A time of 3:20 that would only give him a 40 minute nap because he eats every 4 hours...

the unfinished day from yesterday resulted in a 1 hour nap... although not a good one... he could barely make it to his last bottle I had to feed him an hour early and put him to bed without a bath because he couldn't even keep his eyes open... and he was up at midnight and off and on from 1 a.m.- 3 a.m. it was a rough night... I can't figure him out... which is weird because I still can't figure out his typeee. most days I think he's an angel baby or possibly an angel baby but he has a couple touchy baby characteristics (e.g crying at loud noises)

Today he had two 1 hour naps... I don't think that was enough for him but it seems like an A time of 2 hours 40 minutes he starts to get cranky/fussy and is ready to nap...
I'm at my limit with patience and wish I could remember how I did it with my first child because it was super easy

[TishBKs mom]

one more note... he naps longer when his A time is 4 hours plus... yet at 2 hours 40 minutes he's cranky...

[Ima shel Alon]

It's very common that LO seems like he can't manage the last 30min of his A time, but if he does any less than that you get UT naps.
That was the case with us and for many months, especially at that age 6-7m I had to hold DS for the last 30min of his nap, walk around the house and the garden to keep him awake.
So if you are now at 2:40, go to 2:55 and you might need to help him go through this last stretch and you might get OT naps for a couple of days, but it's all normal and the key is to just stick to what you are doing.

He might surprise you and not wake up for his bottle, but if you think that he will go to sleep and will wake up short after because he is hungry then you can offer a top up short before the nap, but make sure there is a little bit of A time between the feed and sleep.

[TishBKs mom]

Ok so I've picked an A time and will stick to it. 3 hours seems to work good
I started to read the Accidental Parenting chapter in the first book because I'm pretty positive I have quite a few things i  need to adjust. She mentioned to fix one thing at a time... I haven't gotten passed that...
So my LO is now back to waking up and get in up super early again... We've only been sticking to the specific A time for about 3-4 days now. Should I keep to this for awhile longer and then work on getting him on a 7-7 or 8-8 nighttime sleep? I guess I need more clarification on a few things... Basically I don't know what to do on a few things.
Since he is back to early BT and awake time (5-6 a.m. & p.m.), I try to get him back to sleep because he normally has only slept 10 hours straight, not the 12 I'm aiming for, sometimes I'm successful sometimes I'm not, when I'm not I feed him.
My questions:
After feeding him in the early a.m. do I try to get him back to sleep or keep him awake?  (I will have more questions if the answer is to put him back to sleep)
Since he is on a 3 hour A time; at the end of the night by 3 hours he is cranky. Do I feed him, bathe and then BT? OR do I give him a third nap and when he wakes feed, bath, BT? ***remember at this time it's still super early... 5-6 p.m.
OR how much longer of sticking to the 3 hour A time do I try fixing my accidental parenting?
Thanks again!