Night Tantrums

[albers30]

I've got 16 month old twin girls.  Their current regimen is:

Wake 645ish (this has come with the recent sleep issues, there wake time used to be 715-730)
Play
Breakfast 830am
Play
Snack 1030am
Play
Lunch 1145
Nap 1230-130 or 2 (sometimes only 45 minutes but generally at least an hour)
Play
Snack 4pm
Play
Walk 530
Dinner 6pm
Bath
Bedtime 730 (although lately they've been fighting it a little bit and its been closer to 745-8)

Background info.  My husband had a kidney transplant the beginning of April so the girls spent a few  nights with grandparents (they've stayed overnight with them several times before) then spent 2 weeks in an extended stay hotel in the city where the surgery was.  They did really good, routine remained the same and they slept in cribs in a separate room.  About a week after being home Claire, who is my good sleeper generally sleeping thru the night or at most waking once and settling easy with a pat on the back, has started started waking around midnight and refusing to sleep she just wants to be held and rocked anywhere but her nursery.  If you try and put her down or stay in the nursery she'll throw a tantrum.  She'll stay up til 3 or 4 in the morning doing this if you let her.  About every 3 or 4 days she'll sleep thru the night otherwise we're either up all night with her or we sit with her in the nursery while she throws a crying fit in her crib for 20-30 minutes until she finally falls asleep.  The other factor is Lilly her sister has never been the best sleeper and will usually wake around 1 and settle with a pat on the back but then will wake again around 3 or 4 and insist she come to our bed where she'll sleep soundly the rest of the night.  For the sake of getting sleep we have generally just been bringing her to bed when she wakes.  She continues to do this and there have been no new issues.  If we try to make her stay in her bed its generally off and on crying for hours or one big fit that lasts for 30-45 minutes.  I think part of Claires issues might be that she's now jealous that Lilly comes to our bed at night (they share a room) but I think over tiredness is also playing a part.  So I need advice on whether I need to deal with Lilly's co-sleeping issue to fix Claire's sleep issues, and if so how should I fix Lilly's co-sleeping issue.  If not, what advice do you have for me in dealing with Claire's night tantrums?  All this on top of caring for my husband who is recovering from the surgery so I'm exhausted and desperate for sleep.

[*Ali*]

Hugs. What a difficult time for you.

Can you just let them both come in to your bed for now and when you are ready to tackle it just stick to resettling them in their own cribs until they go back to sleep? Yes they will have some disturbed nights but if you are consistent they will eventually see that protesting gets them nowhere.

I am assuming they are independent sleepers for BT and naps usually, or are they not?

[albers30]

We've tried just bringing Claire to bed too but she just cries or wants to play around which keeps us all up then.  I consider them independent sleepers.  At nap time they get put in their crib and then I sit in the rocker and read one or two books.  They generally dose off during the story generally fall asleep soon after and bedtime is the same, after the rest of their routine they get put in their cribs and read to.  They still use pacifiers at bedtime and nap time and have lovies and I guess I'm generally in the room when they doze off so maybe that doesn't make them as independent of sleepers as they should be.  Although Claire prior to the past few weeks was generally sleeping thru the night from 730 to isn so clearly there is something bothering her or new going on that's causing these disturbances.  I think all the recent events have triggered separation anxiety again because she's now throwing fits if I try to leave her at daycare or with family members that she's always been comfortable staying with before but this can't be the only issue at night since she won't even settle down and sleep if we are holding her.  She was up from 3 to 5:30am last night and nothing soothed or calmed her and we tried sleeping in our bed with her on the couch with her rocking her you name it.  She finally cried herself to sleep in her crib with me standing beside her for about 30 minutes.  I feel awful I can't make things better for her.

[*Ali*]

Ok, well falling asleep while you are reading t them is a great start but not completely independent. The problem with being in the room when they fall asleep is they will most likely look for you when they wake at night rather than just turning over and going back to sleep.

So I would work on moving closer to the door and eventually outside the door with the aim of them falling asleep without you in the room. Then when you are ready I would resettle them in their own cot when they wake at night. As I said in my pp they will get upset and protest but if you are persistent then they will eventually stop.

[albers30]

I can do that. They have no problem dosing off if I've left the room but I'm not sure that's the issue. Claire was sleeping thru the night up until these tantrums started a week or so ago and Lilly can fall asleep on her own, has done so the past two nights but still wakes and won't go to sleep til she cones to our bed. We've tried to let her work thru it the past 3 nights but she's carried on for two or more hours so we have up, she needs sleep.

[*Ali*]

I'd make sure you decide beforehand if you are going to see it through and insist she goes to sleep in her own bed.  Doing it for 2hrs and then taking her into your bed is only going to make her protest longer next time because she thinks she just needs to protest long enough and she will get to come into your bed.

Unfortunately at this age no habit is going to be broken without tears and hours of protest. Think of it as short term pain for long term gain.  Yes the night will be disturbed the first few times you do it but in the end you will all be getting more uninterrupted sleep.

[albers30]

I thought this forum didn't believe in the cry it put method? Lilly's co sleeping habit is the least of my concerns right now. It's Claire's 2 hour inconsolable crying fits every night that are killing me. She's never been a co sleeper, still isn't, and she was sleeping thru the night prior to the last 2 weeks. There's clearly something wrong but I can't figure out what. Nothing helps she just screams for two hours or so and no body gets any sleep. I feel so bad for her I can't figure out what's going on.

[*Ali*]

We don't believe in cio no. Cio is where the LO is left to cry alone.  I'm not suggesting for one minute that you leave her to cry alone.  If you are in the room comforting her with your voice and touch then she won't feel abandoned or have the same stress response she would have with cio.

I only suggested tackling the co sleeping as I thought you suggested in your first post that you thought that might be the cause of your other dd's long nws.

If you don't think it is due to not being an independent sleeper or jealously over her sister going into your bed then maybe it is teething or discomfort or developmental.  Do you think any of those could be the culprit? 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

If it isn't down to teething or developmental, do you think ot is a factor? Is a one hour nap fairly normal for them? At that age my older girls were doing 2-2.5 or even a 3 hr nap and a 12 hr night. Personally I am just the type to want to tackle things all in one go so I would probably try to stop the co-sleeping at the same time as dealing with the nw's. I agree with Ali though, at this age there will be a lot of protest and tears.

[albers30]

I think she may be going thru another separation anxiety phase or something related to recent upheaval from my husband having a kidney transplant and being hospitalized for awhile and the three of us staying away from home for a few weeks.  On top of all this I just can't sit up for hours on end with each of them every night crying endlessly.  I need some sleep to function and care for my husband too but I guess that's what I'm going to have to keep doing and see if it runs its course soon but over a week of doing this and it continues doesn't give me hope its going to hope anytime soon.  Thanks for the input and support though.

[*Ali*]

Hugs it must be so hard.

Perhaps this FAQ on SA will help. Separation Anxiety

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

(((Hugs)))

[albers30]

Ok, so I read thru the sheet on Separation Anxiety and there's nothing on there we haven't done.  I've been going thru the bedtime routine now putting the girls in their cribs then walking out and they go to sleep within 10-15 minutes.  During the day they are fine, they play by themselves frequently throughout the day.  If I leave them with someone else Claire throws about a 5 minute tantrum but then is fine the rest of the time, Lilly has no qualms with being left.  Claire has started throwing more tantrums then usual when she doesn't get her way or fights with sister but I think its because she is overtired.  They have never been long nappers.  When they took 2 naps a day generally it was a 30-45 minute nap in the am and 45-90 minute nap in the afternoon.  Since they went to one nap a day its been about 60-90 minutes.  I don't know if its even possible but should I try and make them nap longer?  Claire continues to wake up about 4 hours after going down and kick and scream for about 2 hours.  If you try and pick her up she pushes you away or hits you.  Lilly has been sleeping thru it and coming to our bed occasionally around 5 am.  Any other ideas on what's been causing these outbursts at night by Claire?  I do think also being over tired is playing a part but I don't know how to fix this when she won't sleep. 

[*Ali*]

What about trying wake to sleep 3hrs after BT if she usually wakes 4hrs after BT? That might help to break the cycle.

Do you think Claire is awake when she has these tantrums or could they be night terrors where she is essentially asleep?

[jessmum46]

Just been reading along and wondered if you've tried a much earlier BT for Claire?  I think our routine at that age was pretty similar to yours (WU 6.30-7, nap 12.30ish but with a 6.30pm bedtime - asleep for then).  Might possibly help her catch up a little?  Hugs for the tough time you're having, just thought I'd offer this in case it helps xx