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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Eva's Mummy on August 22, 2016, 08:10:31 am
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DD2 has just turned 2 today and since the beginning of August her sleep has gone totally to pot (the same time as she started nursery). I used to read her a story, give her milk, sing a song lie her down then leave her awake and she would drift off to sleep. Now I do the same but the second I leave she screams the place down. I started off going in an out but every time I left she got more and more upset so I lay on the floor and patted her bum, now I’m stuck in her room every BT on the floor patting her bum, if is top she shouts mummy and starts patting her own bum until I do it again. I can occasionally get away with lying on the floor singing but she will be up and down like a yoyo checking that I am still there. If she sees me leave it starts all over again so I need to stay until she is fast asleep then sneak out.
She has a couple of times self settled during the night but more often than not she has been waking once or twice a night and we go through it all again.
I need help on how to get her out of this as I am totally shattered. Any ideas on the best approach to try for her.
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I think I'd be sympathetic as she's had a big change with nursery but be firmer with your support. I wouldn't get into patting her bum or anything like that as it's harder prop to break. I'd certainly sit in the room and be clear that mummy is happy to stay but you need to stay in bed and go to sleep.
If you're changing things up it would be a good age to move milk to before bedtime routine? Or does she do teeth after milk?
Hugs. It's so hard when they aren't sleeping well. By 8pm I am done being a mummy xx
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Thanks Shiv,
So would you lie down or just sit up next to the bed? I know she will start screaming the place down so do i speak to her, keep singing or just stay quiet?
Also how do i then go about stopping being in the room altogether? I thought after 3 weeks at nursery it might have settled a bit but its not.
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Yeah I'd just be saying it's ok. It's bedtime etc.
I'd sit away from the bed. And every few nights move further to the door.
Does she nap? Is she getting enough A time to bed?
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yeah she naps. she has always been really hsn so has been doing at home:
WU 7:00/7:30
Nap 11:30 - 13:30/13:50
BT 18:50
Her 3 nursery days she naps anywhere between 12:20/ 13:00 depending when she nods and usually for 45 min to 1 hour so she got into a bit OT mess really quickly. But ive been letting her sleep in the morning and uncapped nap and it seemed to help. so we are now going for home days set nap and BT 12 & 7 and nursery days BT 6:30 or 6 if a rubbish nap.
with regards to teeth i will start brushing before milk, i was going to sort sleep first but i guess i amy aswell do it altogether.
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Wow she is high sleep needs!!!
Yeah I'd start doing milk then teeth. Seems unfair to do sleep training and let her use the milk to get sleepy to change it on her. I'm paranoid about milk and teeth. My friend in work just had his 3yo have to get 3 teeth out at hospital and it was from BFing and milk at night until he was after two. Poor wee fella.
How does she seem going to bed? Is she tired or OT or just messing do you think? It helps to remember the crying is normal and treat it like you would if she wants a biscuit before dinner. Sympathy and I hear ya but this is the rule and you need sleep to grow etc.
Hugs x
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It's really hard to say what's she's like she never looks tired apart from at nap time where she takes herself to bed and settled to sleep no problem.
She goes to nursery 3 days a week and after the 2nd week she slept in the morning until 9:30 napped 13:00 - 15:00 I woke her then bed at 19:20 and sttn until 7:25 so she must hsbe been shattered. Now I'm. Not sure of I'm getting her into a ut/ot loop.
Nursery nap today was 13:30 - 14:30 was aiming for 18:30 bt. So I had a good chat with her ( she's not talking much but understands a lot). And told her mummy would not be sleeping in her room tonight. I lay her down at 18:20 and she's been mumbling and moaning with the odd wee moan cry but nothing to make me go in yet. But not sleeping yet.I can hear her slapping her own bum.
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I can't belive it. 25 mins and she's put herself to sleep.
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Fingers crossed. How's it going?
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Posted and saw Youve posted!!! Hurray!!
Lots of praise in the morning 😜
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Can't believe it. She shouted on me s couple if times and had a wee cry then went quiet for a few mins then did it again but i difdnt want to go in and she might get more worked up.Now I'm thinking was it because I had a good chat with her and told her what was happening or just a fluke or the late nap, maybe things were just timed right today even though they were nothing like a usual day.
If she wakes during the night do I sit on the floor like we spoke about?
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I don't know! Based on that success Id likely just go in and reassure and say the same again and see will she aort herself out. No point adding a prop if you don't need one yk?
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Thanks I'm just stunned. That hasn't happened in over 3 weeks xx
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She obviously reAlised you meant business 😝😝😝
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Lol hopefully xx
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I think slapping her own bum to settle is the funniest thing I have ever heard ;D ;D ;D
I just wanted to chime in ... DD just turned 2 at the end of June and we went through the same thing. So I think it is developmental. WE got back to normal in about 5-6 weeks which seemed like an eternity to me though ::)
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I think slapping her own bum to settle is the funniest thing I have ever heard ;D ;D ;D
Me too. So so cute 😃
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I know she's a wee cheeky chops. Well what a good night we had. She woke 3 times. The first she self settled, the second I went in popped a wee blanket over her and said good night bsby mummy will come back in a min to check on you and left. Well she went straight back to sleep. Then she woke again about 6 and self settled again. So so proud of my girl ;D
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YAy!!!!!! Well done baby girl x
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Disaster. No nap at all at nursery today so she was way ot.ended up patting her bum for 10 mins then she was asleep
She just seemed way too wired to get herself to sleep tonight. Hopefully she'll crash and sttn but usually OT for us is lots of NW's
Typical after such a good start. No nursery for 2 days though then nursery Friday and off another 2 so that's a decent run at it.
Hi Suzanna, Its good to hear we are not the only ones going through this with a 2 year old, hopefully we will come out the other end soon.
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How went the night Gail? Scotishmummy cannot respond right now so I thought I will check in how it's going!
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Hi honey, hope everything is ok with scottishmummy?
Its not going great, last night she went o bed ok with a just a cry for 2 mins then self settled but then she had NW's at 22:30, 00:25, 03:15, 5:20
The first couple she settled with just a little tuck in and reassurance but the next she was screaming and grabbing on to me like crazy. I ended up back the floor just so I could get some rest. I'm really not sure if she is OT or if something else is at play here?
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You know - with my son OT started playing much greater role in his sleep when he was older than when he was younger. So with your dd2 such a HSN I would think that one NND which she had couple of days ago could make her very tired. My son is much more ASN and he still didn't have any NND and is rather devasted after 30min nap:). And he is 2.5y!
So in addition to sleep training I would think that she may need as much occasions to catch up as possible. So EBT when you can or SEBT. Can you talk to the nursery about the nap? Maybe there is something that do wrongly? I remember jessmum saying that her DS was even rocked to sleep on naps but thanks to that he did nice long naps in the nursery. Maybe when you DD wakes after 1-1.5h the nursery ladies think it is ok and most of the children would be fine - but she need some help with going back for another 45-60min? Wdyt? Maybe you can bring some lovey or white noise for her to sleep better? Do they have proper condition for sleeping toddlers there? To give you an example - my DS around 10-11mo was put to sleep at 12am as he wasn't crying - so the ladies decided to tuck in all other crying and tired children and than DS. But when they put him at 12 he was devasted and slept short of course. After some talking I just asked if they can put him down earlier as he was one of the youngest in the group no matter if he seems tired or not - and his sleep became much better. Or I couldn't understand why he slept poorly on his nap around 1pm when he was 7mo and it occurred that nobody was already asleep then so after 45min children just woke him.
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How are you guys getting on?
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thanks, its a bit hit and miss. Last night she went down in 5 mins (shes taken to throwing her rabbit at me as i wlak out the door). She she shouts on me a couple of times then goes to sleep.
but she woke 1hr later, just needed tucked in then woke again at 3, needs more settling this time but i guess we are pregressing from hours on the floor.
At nursery they will only really rock them to sleep in the baby room. But i do think she does miss her window as she is so nosy making sure evreyone else goes to sleep before she sleeps.
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Nw's 20:30, 22:15, 1:30 and 5:40 then up at 6:15
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What did she nap yesterday? That was a lot of NWs
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I know, that's kind of what we are dealing with here, At least 2 every night but quite often 4.
Yesterday was a nursery day she did
WU 7:00
Nap 12:40 - 14:00 (they think)
BT 19:10 (was trying for 18:50 but it took 20 mins for her to get to sleep)
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Any chance she is cutting her 2 year molars? A lot of NW's also can mean discomfort ;)
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Well we certainly don't have any yet. She had all the other teeth by 16 months then nothing. I've been blaming them for mibths but still no sign of them yet . I did give meds on 1 of the nw's just incase.
Today was nursery
WU 6:15
Nap 12:30 - 13:10
BT I'm trying early 17:50
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She went to sleep well. Then nw
21:35
22:45
3:20
WU 6:15
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I would still say it's OT being honest. What she sleeps right now vs what she slept before looks like much less sleep. And we had the same wakings with DS around 2yo for 2 months even until I finally understood that he is just OT and cutting his nap (what I were stupidly doing) is rather a problem than help.
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That's what I always thought but when I tried bt earlier she cried the place down and wouldn't go to sleep. But maybe that was just a wee phase.
So what would you do today on the 6:15 wu. Would you do earlier nap say 11:30 then 5hrs to BT if she had a good 2hr nap?
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Hmmm what worked before nursery? How many hours she slept at nap and at night.
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Nap was usually 2 to 2 hours 20 mins and night could be anything from 12.5 to 13.5 hours x
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Gosh, that's a HSN baby:)). What time she has to get up on nursery days?
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The I can leave her until 7:15 at the latest and get home about 5pm.
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Thinking by maths, she would need 13h night even before nursery and with 7pm BT you give her a chance for 12h max and that's with a shorter nap. Am I right?
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Yes. So would you keep trying for a 6pm bedtime on nursery days? Then just stick to what we used to do on home days?
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Let's say she needs 15h of sleep per 24h. At home she probably can do 3h nap when at nursery it's going to be 1-1.5h. So let's say nap will somehow compensate, she can also sleep in on no nursery days, I guess to catch up... Hopefully.
But in general I would go for 6pm bedtime as a rule on both nursery and home days. With a no nap or 40min one in the nursery I would do even 5pm bedtime or whatever you can go for. And when she starts to sleep at night without NW, you can go for any kind of later BT. What do you think? Is it even feasible?
What I am trying to figure out is how to give her 15h of sleep as an average when 3 days a week (only 3 days yes?) she sleeps right now 11h at night and average 1h at naps (12h vs 15h before). Do you have some logs how much she slept in last weeks after the nursery started?
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Thanks honey. Yes I do have logs I'll op the on in a wee bit. It is almost feasible apart from 5pm on nursery no napparent or short nap days. I could at a push manage 5:30 I think if dinner is ready for her walking in the door then straight into pj's and bed.
I'll will do anything right now for even 1 full nights sleep.
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So that would be my bet. To confirm the idea I would count her sleep from your log in last 2-3 weeks and check how much she missed (thinking she needs 15h per 24h). If you see that she as an average slept 14-15h, my hipotesis is wrong but with 11h night and shorter naps even couple days a week - I would firstly put my bet on OT being a reason for her NWs. Together with 6pm BT as a rule I would consider sleep training as you did which hopefully will be easier when she is going to sleep earlier. I guess she will need to adjust to 6pm bedtime so give her time.
Secondly I would really highlight at nursery that anything shorter than an hour is not acceptable...:) and they should do anything to get her back to sleep.
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Not sure what to do today. Last night bt was 18:20 but he time she fell asleep. 1 nw at 23:00 then sttn until 5:37 but would not for love nor money go back to sleep then. She was wide awake so our day is starting at 5:37 ::)
Would you do early nap or keep to 11:30?
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11?
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Thanks. Well nap 10:55 woke up 12:40 so 1 hr 45 min nap. I'm thinking 5:40 BT ?
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Disaster. Tried 5:40 she screamed the place down, threw her rabbit at me was so upset and anger ended up having to get her up as dd1 was needing to go to bed and in didn't want to end up with 2 ot kids . So second time round was just as bad ended up staying on the floor with my hand on her bum and she nodded in 10 mins at 6:30 so no doubt there will be a few nw's . Not had a bt like that since I started this tread.
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LOL:) i would say i would keep 6pm bedtime as fixed and set and go for earlier only if she has less than an hour nap or no nap. Sorry that I am posting so late!
Re 6pm BT I would push for couple of days until she is used to it as you probably know that they have to get used to set times and it's one hour earlier than her normal BT.
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So she woke at 2.20 ish and you tried for bed at 5.40? Less than 3.5 A time? even for a HSN I would say that would lead to a huge fight at bedtime from being UT, no??
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No she woke at 12:40 honey. Last night was awful after eventuallt sleeping at 18;30 she was inconsolable at 19:40 screaming, choking I had to take her out of the room and sit on the stairs with her in the dark just to calm her down a bit. Back to sleep at 20.22 up again at 23:50 but easy to settle. Then up for the day at 5:35 tried for 30 mins but wouldn't go back down and dd1 had woke by then.
Nursery today so no chance of catch up
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Woo hoo at least a reason. I can see the start of 1 of her 2nd year molars at long last. Hopefully they will all come through soon x
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I was pretty sure that was the cause. For us they lasted pretty long but once the gum was cut she was much better. So as soon as at least 2 of the points were out she was sleeping better.
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it's been going on for ages, there are 2 corners though so hopefully we'll get a sleep soon. Just 3 more molars to go, i hope they all sprout through soon after this one. Did you find they all came in about the same time?
DD1 had all hers in a few weeks, but she had them all early.
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LOL for us 2nd year molars lasted 6 months, slowly coming one by one. And being honest DS was pretty ok with OT, but when teething OT wakings made him a small disaster.
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Oh I hope we don't have 6 months. I've though she's been teething them for months already but none appeared so hopefully they are all on the move x
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I found that DD cut them by two's. So she cut the two bottom molars at the same time and I think she just started showing signs of getting the top ones soon. Then we will be done YOOHOOOO
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So lack of sleep has officially hit a high. I can't go in like this. Lady night nw 22:35, 00:00, 3:00, 4:00 she's till asleep now but dd1 was up at 6:00
I really don't know what to do. I am medicating but it's not helping she is screaming blue murder and needs me to pick her up for a cuddle. I guess I let her sleep as long as she wants this morning then hope for a long nap. I can feel it coming I'm going yo be Ill, how long can you keep going with no sleep x
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Just woke at 7:07
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Do you have the teething gel there? It numbs the gum instantly and that is what helped us through a lot.
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We do but it tastes awful and she will use not open her mouth for it x
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Is it time to have another chat about every one needing a proper nights sleep and no more nonsense at night? We're getting 6 yo molars here and had lots of NWs, half habit half pain, I guess. Obviously my monkey is a lot older but I had to be quite firm as teeth take ages to come down.
Do you definitely think it's teeth? Or just the original issue?
How is she if your DH goes to her?
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honestly i think it might be a bit of both. There is definitly 2 corners of a back molar poope through and she is more clingy during the day, walking around with her hand in her mouth but i think both parts are at play. Just not sure how good sleeping training would be if she is in pain.
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Sorry I'll be back on tonight with an update. It's been hectic recently.
Need a wee bit of advice for tonight please.
Nursery day bur her nap was really late. They said they could see she was shattered but just wouldn't nod off. So today was.
WU 6:20
Nap 13:15 - 14:30
Last time she sud this I tried 6:30 bt abd she had a total meltdown abd ended up nit going to sleep until 8pm so justvwondered when you would try bt?
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Went for 7 and she went straight to sleep. But woke at 20:10 inconsolable. Floods of tears, eyes almost on the floor just shattered. Got her back down and so far she's been crying in and off (in her sleep) for about an hour. Poor girl.
So last time 4hrs and she would go to sleep this time 4.5 hours and it's over tired. 2 years old and I still can't get her sleep right.
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Sorry you haven't had any replies recently. It's such a tricky time when they aren't sleeping well at nursery and trying to 2nd guess what BT. they'll need
How was the rest of her night and her day today? Any luck with a longer nap today or an EBT tonight to give her some catch up sleep?
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Thanks honey.
The rest of her night was awful. Nw 22:10, 00:15, 4:10 then up at 7. Nursery today was nap 12:45 - 13:45 tried bt at 18:30 but screamed until 19:00
At home tomorrow so hopefully she'll catch up. I feel like every day is just a total guessing game that I am never getting right. I do think I need to sleep train too though as sometimes she just wants me to pick her up. I can lay her down 30 secs later and she goes back to sleep, she just seems to need me.
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Hi Gail, i was on 2 weeks holidays so couldn't respond! Will be back soon with some tips as after sleeping now together in a room we are just sleep training:P.
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Thank you sweetheart x
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Thanks honey.
The rest of her night was awful. Nw 22:10, 00:15, 4:10 then up at 7. Nursery today was nap 12:45 - 13:45 tried bt at 18:30 but screamed until 19:00
At home tomorrow so hopefully she'll catch up. I feel like every day is just a total guessing game that I am never getting right. I do think I need to sleep train too though as sometimes she just wants me to pick her up. I can lay her down 30 secs later and she goes back to sleep, she just seems to need me.
Oh no, she really struggles with her nights when OT, doesn't she? Do you think she needs a 6pm BT if she only naps an hour at nursery? (if that's even possible with pick up timing) Fingers crossed for a good catch up nap and night tomorrow.