Some EASY questions

[Hayleys]

Hi

I was hoping to update you before you were able to reply as we had a very difficult night. She woke as usual and I went in and fed her (minus an ounce). She hadn't fallen asleep on the bottle though and seemed drowsy but awake. I put her in the cot expecting her to fuss a bit but be easily settled as this had happened before! But no, how wrong was I! I'm not sure how long it too her to settle in the end as I forgot to look at the clock when I went into her but I think it was between 3-4 hrs!!

She initially just seemed not tired. She kept laying herself down after crying a lot and seemed unable to drift off to sleep! She was really trying but kept waking! I don't think the less milk made a difference and I remember thinking the night before that she seemed awake as initially she woke with a little chatter before crying and fell asleep in my arms after the bottle. Last night after not successfully getting herself to sleep she then was chatting in her cot and in the end fell asleep from sheer exhaustion. I ended up have to lean over the cot and cuddle her to lay down. It just felt like the right thing to do after 2 hrs of PD not working.

I really don't know what was wrong, I felt her teething had subsided. Could this be OT or UT? Do you think this is a sign that her routine needs to change?

[Ima shel Alon]

If you think it's not teething and it happened again last night then you can try and push the nap a bit, maybe by 15min.
The thing is that with toddlers there not anymore the same tweaking like with babies. A lot of the "tweaking" is simply letting them getting used to a routine.

[Hayleys]

Hi

Thanks!

Regarding the difficult night last week, it hasn't happened since on the same scale but last night I did have some problems again settling her after she finished the bottle of milk.  Basically she always used to fall asleep whilst still drinking her milk and I could put her in her cot without a problem but now she doesn't seem to fall asleep whilst feeding.  She is close to sleep and since that bad night I must admit I have held her for a short while until her eyes close before putting her back in the cot, as I really haven't wanted to go through such a bad night again.  When I put her in the cot she is either fast asleep or she may cry and then fall into a deep sleep very quickly.  However last night again it just seemed like she could not get into a deep sleep. She wasn't crying a lot but mainly laying down and perhaps fidgeting. I was sitting by her bed and she would fall asleep but was heavy breathing and I could tell it was a very light sleep, I felt that when I moved it would disturb her.  She would sleep for a spell and then do a few cries and go back to sleep.  It took an hour of this until she fell back to sleep.  I'm not sure what it is.  I'm reducing the milk and she is draining the bottle, it could be teeth, or SA just not sure.  When I put her down for a nap, I can usually leave the room straight away without a problem.  Any ideas?  Perhaps it will hopefully just pass, especially once the night weaning has finished.  Yesterday, she did have a two and a half hour nap which is great but could it be possible that it made her undertired for her night sleep?

Otherwise, things are continuing to go well!  Like I said her naps seem to be extending now and she has been having a 2 hr, 2 and a half hour and 1 hr 45 mins sleep.  Her WU does vary a little however the other day she had an 11 and a half hour night and then the next she only had a 10 hr 15 min sleep, today her night was 10 hr 40 mins.  I'm hoping that this will extend and be consistent but we'll have to see.  Sometimes she wakes happy and chatting and others a little moany but not too bad.

The other thing which is on my mind at the moment is that the clocks are going back in about a month.  Is there anything I can do to prepare for this as she may then start waking at 4:30 am!!

[Ima shel Alon]

It took an hour of this until she fell back to sleep.  I'm not sure what it is. 

With a toddler I really wouldn't stay in the room anymore, especially not a toddler who used to be an ind. sleeper. You'd rather do WI/WO and give her a chance to self settle.
Like I said before we can't make any conclusions re BT after one night. We need to see a pattern. If it happens in the next nights as well then you can post your EASY and we can have a look.
Re the clock changing, the way I always did and do it is that the evening before I put to bed in normal time and then WU is a bit earlier the next day (but not really, just by the new time) and then I keep the nap at the time it's always is (so an hour later actually on that day) and then BT as well at the same time as always. We usually have a tired day on that day, perhaps the next one, but I found that it's the quickest thing that worked for us.

[Hayleys]

Hi

I haven't posted for a week or so as she had been ill with a cough and cold. She has been sleeping reasonably well considering but last night we did have a very long WU. It may have been due to illness but it just didn't seem like that to me as a few days before when she was more poorly, she settled more easily.

Since your last post, I have been doing Walk in/Walk out when needed and it has been going really well. When she became ill though I started to be in the room more, but I'm wondering if this sometimes makes her worse as it wakes her up more. She is on the mend now and I'm wondering if I intervened too quickly last night and caused her to wake up when perhaps she would have self settled. I'm not sure but I think I'll hold back now and see what happens. Just to check, is it ok to just go into the room when she does 'I need you cries', then what I've been doing is standing by the door, calming her with my voice and then walking out as soon as she stops crying or starts doing self settling cries. Is that ok?  Also as she has been poorly, I was going up to her when she was standing in the cot, cuddling her and the patting the mattress and telling her to lay down. This worked really well when she was very congested. Last night I did this and it didn't have the same affect but like I said it may be that she finds this too stimulating now? The other thing is, she had a 2 and a half hour sleep during the day so I'm wondering if she wasn't tired enough for her night sleep. Do you think this could be too long for her day nap?
 
Just for the record she is 14 and a half months now! She is continuing to go down for her nap well at 11:30 am and these still vary in length. They are never shorter than 1 and a half hours and usually are no more than 2 hrs at the most! Her nights are about 11 hrs at the moment and have been a little more, but not sure if that's because she has been I'll.

[Ima shel Alon]

is it ok to just go into the room when she does 'I need you cries', then what I've been doing is standing by the door, calming her with my voice and then walking out as soon as she stops crying or starts doing self settling cries. Is that ok?

Sounds good to me.

Do you think this could be too long for her day nap?

Usually when on one nap many kids do 2.5-3h sleep during the day and they are fine. I would still wait with shortening the nap because we don't know if it is related to her being ill or you being in the room for too long and her getting stimulated.
If you see that there are still problems with nights (which doesn't really sound like you have) then you can push the nap later, perhaps to 11:45 and then to 12 rather than shortening the nap.

[Hayleys]

Hi

It’s been a while since Iast posted as my daughter has had another cold!  She got another one after only being better for a week!!  However things have actually been quiet settled really and I think I could start a new post on the toddler forum now.

Before I do though, I just have a few questions.  Regarding the night weaning as she became ill, I had to go back to the beginning on this, so this is still in process.  I’m just wondering, if you found you had to reduce the amount to just an ounce of milk until your little one stopped waking for it?  The reason why I’m asking is that 2 days before she became ill she slept through the night when I had reduced the amount to 4 ozs.  She then woke the 3rd night but as she was then poorly I continued to offer milk and in fact let her have as much as she wanted.  If she hadn’t have been ill would you still continue the weaning process after two nights of sleeping through the night?  Also once she is sleeping through the night do you always just not offer milk anymore and perhaps water if need be.  I think I may just find this a little bit tricky if she is unwell and perhaps hasn’t eaten as much as usual!

Also, she is still going down for her nap at 11:30 am.  This has been going well but I’m just wondering when I could start to increase the time until 12 pm, only it would just be a lot easier to fit going out in the morning and returning for lunch before her nap.  She is going to sleep at 7 pm and usually wakes between 5:30 am and 6 am at the moment.  However, she does often seem tired in the mornings so perhaps this is not the right time to increase her nap until 12 pm.  Should I wait until she starts to resist it?

Thanks

[Hayleys]

Ooops, I forgot to mention that her nap does still vary in length each day, anywhere for 1 and a half to 2 and a half hours!  It does seem to be around the 2 hr mark much more than it used to be!  Also she is just about to turn 15 months now!

[Hayleys]

Hi

Sorry to be serial posting but I've just remembered that there was something else I wanted to ask you! At the moment my daughter has her milk in a bottle before bed and since only having one nap a day, she always falls asleep on it. I'm thinking of putting her milk in a sippy cup now, do you think this is a good age to do this? She manages well with a cup but I think she likes the bottle to calm and fall asleep. Do I just try the cup one night or is there a way to slowly introduce it? I'd also like to try to clean her teeth after she has had the milk and before she falls asleep. I vaguely remember to saying a long time ago that you managed to introduce something like this with your son. Also do you think this is ok to do while I am weaning the night bottles? I was thinking it would be ok, but thought I'd get your thoughts on it.

Also the other thing is that on the rare occasion when she doesn't fall asleep on the bottle it is really hard to get her down. She falls asleep independently for her nap, no problem and without me being in the room but this doesn't transfer to night time. I was thinking that the cup would probably stop her falling asleep while having the milk and perhaps get her used to falling asleep independent again at bedtime.

What do you think?

[Ima shel Alon]

would you still continue the weaning process after two nights of sleeping through the night? 

No, I wouldn't. If she slept two nights in a row through then I don't think she needs the feeds anymore. By now it can may well be that they are disrupting her sleep rather than helping.

Also once she is sleeping through the night do you always just not offer milk anymore and perhaps water if need be.  I think I may just find this a little bit tricky if she is unwell and perhaps hasn’t eaten as much as usual!

No, no milk anymore. Take it from my experience, she will just start and wake up again expecting to be fed. If she is ill she will wake up because of discomfort not because she is hungry. And if there is one night that she wakes up a couple of times because of being hungry it's better to not feed and deal with just this night then going back to waking up once or twice every night to feed her.

Also, she is still going down for her nap at 11:30 am.  This has been going well but I’m just wondering when I could start to increase the time until 12 pm, only it would just be a lot easier to fit going out in the morning and returning for lunch before her nap.  She is going to sleep at 7 pm and usually wakes between 5:30 am and 6 am at the moment.  However, she does often seem tired in the mornings so perhaps this is not the right time to increase her nap until 12 pm.  Should I wait until she starts to resist it?

I think best would be to start a thread on the toddler sleep board, mommies there are far more experienced than me .

re the milk and teeth I would think you can give the milk in a sippy cup. They need to work harder drinking from a cup but if she is doing it already during the day then she should be ok.
With teeth brushing it depends a lot on the child. With DS I knew that I have to wait till he understand everything that is going on. Only then I said one day that from today on he has his milk, then teeth brushing, then to bed, and he was totally fine with it. After two weeks we changed things again and took away the BT bottle, only offered water. He was fine with it as well, but like I said he had to understand what's going on or I'll have to deal with awful tantrums. It's not the same for everybody, most parents brush teeth after bottle no problem.

I was thinking that the cup would probably stop her falling asleep while having the milk and perhaps get her used to falling asleep independent again at bedtime.

I don't know if dropping the bottle will help with that (and thinking about it it might be a bit early to drop the bottle all together) and you might need to do PD but I think it's worth it. She needs to learn to fall asleep at BT as well. I think she will surprise you - might struggle a couple of BT but then she'll get the hang of it.

Good luck!

[Hayleys]

Hi

I just wanted to post back to say thank you for all of your help over the months, you’ve been so supportive, given me some great advice and I’ve really appreciated it!   

I’ll post in the toddler forum if I need any advice from now on!

By the way, always been meaning to say how adorable your little boy is!

xx

[Ima shel Alon]

Thank you and no problem!