10 mo EW and overall low sleep totals

[katiebee18]

First time posting on consistent EW as we have had some here in the past but not this bad.
For the past 5 days we have had wakings of 5:43 A or earlier, however we have STTN on all of these days. Prior to this I would say we had like 1 a week and most days would be a 6/7 A WU time with 1 NW to E around 4-5 A with a more consistent 10.5 hours of NT sleep.

I just weaned DS off of the Ergo carrier to fall asleep at naps. He is putting himself to sleep in his crib for naps again (yay!) so in part some of the times I listed below where it took him a long time to go down are probably in part by this routine change. I have also not done any car naps since then to help us get us back in the hang of this.

I know my A times seem to be all over the place. I am really struggling with daytime A times and think this is probably contributing to LO's OT. He has always seemed to need the higher end of the A range for his age but then again he is kind of a crabby little guy who doesn't sleep a lot so maybe I have pushed him too much.

Here are the past 3 days, any insight or help on where to go from here and how to get him more NT sleep (and DT too) would be super appreciated.

He is BF and eats about 6x a day. We also do solids for breakfast, lunch and dinner each day.

Sat (STTN, 10 hours NT sleep)
WU @ 5:06 A
Nap 1: 1h08m, A: 4h02m...took 48m to get him down, woke up happy
Nap 2: 1h06m, A: 4h59m...took 59m to get him down, woke up crying and also woke up once during nap crying (35m) and settled on his own
BT @ 7:15, A: 2h54m (would have stretched him longer but he seemed tired)....took 5m to get him down

Sun (STTN, 10.5 hours NT sleep)
WU @ 5:43 A
Nap 1: 1h02m, A:4h27m....took 24m to get him down, woke up happy
Nap 2: 1h06m, A:4h06m...took 34m to gt him down, woke up and resettled himself (44m)
BT @ 7:45, A: 3h21m...took 20m to get him down

Mon (STTN, 9.5 hours of NT sleep)
WU @ 5:18 A
Nap 1: 1h08m, A: 3h15m (would have stretched him longer but whiny/lots of eye rubs)....took 18m to get him down, woke up and resettled himself (27m), woke up happy
Nap 2: 1h35m, A: 4h25m....took 37m to get him down, woke at 32m and 54m but resettled both times, woke up crabby
BT @ 7:45, A: 4h04m...took 17m to get him down

Today (STTN, 9.75 hours NT sleep)
WU @ 5:33 A
Nap 1: so far 54m, A: 3h49m....took 31m to get him down

- I don't remember him waking so much during naps, why would this be...OT?
- What do happy wake up vs. crabby wake ups usually mean?
- How do you think I can get him to sleep more than 9.5-10 hours a night?
- We are averaging a little over 2 hours of DT sleep, do you think I can get him closer to 3 or is that wishful thinking as he seems to be low sleep needs or just chronic OT?
- Are 14-14.5 hour days way too much for this age? I see most posters have 12-13 hour days but then again they get 11-12 hours NT sleep.

I know he may be in 2-1 transition, we tried some capped AM naps but those didn't seem to really do much and he was so crabby and would often take a crummy PM nap so I gave up.

I know this is a lot to sort through, thanks!

[Erin M]

I think he needs a longer first A time and most everything else is a result of that.  Napping in his crib instead of the Ergo could be part of it too.  If he's just recently started STTN, he could be more well rested in the morning (despite his shorter night).  I'd increase his A time to something like 4.15 and see if he goes down better and sleeps longer for you.  Happy wakings for us were always UT -- with a nap of just over an hour, it's probably not fully restorative and I think you're getting an OT second nap (because you're using the same A time, of he does a shorter nap for the first nap, I'd actually do a shorter A time for the second one).  He's probably also in the first stages of the 2-1 -- generally most people cap the second nap, because if you cap the first one and the second doesn't work out well, then you've had two short naps and an OT baby on your hands. 

The waking during naps could mean that you need to tweak his A time or could also be that he's just getting used to napping in his crib.  If he's putting himself back to sleep, I wouldn't worry about it too much.  To get him to sleep more at night, I'd do some longer A times, perhaps a capped nap in the PM and shoot for about a 13 hour day, and hope to get an 11 hour night (12 hour nights are pretty unrealistic at his age).  Actually given his A times, if you get any sort of decent nap (more than 1.5 hours) in the AM, I'd cap the PM at 45 minutes and do an early bed time if necessary (which will often shift that early waking into a night waking where it's a tough easier to deal with).

Honestly, he mght not need 3 hours of day sleep, especially if you start getting 11 hour nights.  My ds generally did a touch over 2 hours at his age (2.5 would be within reason as well) -- especially if he generally hasn't seemed to need too much sleep overall.

What do you think?

[katiebee18]

Thanks Erin! I think it makes sense but still feel like the A times may be off. He is so hard to read and I wish I was better at figuring out his A times.

Yesterday we had:
A: 3h49m
S: 1h43m (yay!) -- took 31 mins to go down
A: 4h10m
S: 31m -- took 26m to go down
A: 3h09m
BT at 6:55 -- took 25m to go down

Today
WU @ 6:02 AM (NW at 1:45 A to eat) --- 10.5 hr NT sleep
A: 4h19m
S: 1h02m -- took 24 mins to go down
A: 3h30-4h15m nap refusal (started crying heavily after 30 mins of rolling around, rubbed eyes before I put him down so thought he would go to sleep)

Where did I go wrong? I tried to put him down with a shorter A time as you suggested for nap #2.
Should I get him a car nap of 30ish mins and then BT 2 hours after?

[Erin M]

I'd definitely do the quick car nap and BT about 2 hours later.
I wish I knew what was going on yesterday, that was a good day!  I assume you're including the settling time in A time?  Any possibility of discomfort, etc -- though it's not a new issue, is it?

[katiebee18]

Erin - yes I am including settling time in our A time. I think we have 2 new teeth working their way in on top, but he is still STTN or only getting up once to eat so I don't think his teeth are bothering him that much.

We've had a rough few days...At this point I am less worried about EW and more just about chronic OT. LO is so crabby especially today, he has cried a good portion of the day.

Thurs
WU @ 5:54 A (almost 10.5 hours BT sleep and 1 NW at 3:35 to E)
** Nap Refusal from A: 3h56m-4h40...he had to have been OT as he fell asleep while I was feeding him but then when DH picked him up and put him in his crib, he would not go back down
A:6h23m
S: 1h36m -- fell asleep while I was feeding him
** Nap Refusal from A: 3h17-3h55 in car, maybe UT but we were having guests come over as it was Thanksgiving
A: 5h17m
BT @ 7:05P...took him 5-10 to go down

Fri
WU @ 6:53 A (10.75 hours BT sleep and his best in awhile. I NW at 4:30ish and I though he would be up for the day but finally went back down a little before 5:30 A)
A: 4h32m
S: 1h08m --- took 41m for him to go down
A: 4h02m
S: 31m in car -- took him 30 mins to fall asleep
A: 2h44m
BT @ 7:40 P...took 30ish m for him to go down

Today
WU @ 5:28 A (STTN, 9.75 hours BT sleep)
** Nap Refusal from A: 3h46m-4h17...crying basically the whole time and pretty hysterically at the end
Wondered if something was wrong (teething) as he is very crabby and finger-munching so gave teething tabs and Ibuprofen
A: 6h22m
S: 55m -- fell asleep while I was feeding, woke up so crabby and has been crying most of the time since

I am a little lost...any suggestions appreciated. I guess I will take the 5:00 A WU if I don't have a crab who will barely sleep 1.5 hours during the day and take about just as long to get down as he sleep.

Do you think there is anyway his EW could be from OT not the classic UT and needed A time push?
Do you think I actually need to scale back the AM A time, maybe to like 3h15-3h40 like we were before he started refusing to go to sleep in the Ergo baby carrier for me?

Sorry, a little frustrated...poor DH for having to put up with me and crabby DS today!

[katiebee18]

An update on today...a much better day! I think we are def so OT that it is playing into EW, so I think I should just focus on that now. I am so terrible with the EBT, but need to make that my friend if we are still having issues.

WU @ 5:25 A (STTN, 9.5 hours of BT sleep)
A: 3h28m (decided to do a shorter A time especially with less than 10 hours of NT sleep)
S: 38m --- took 15 m for him to go down
A: 3h25m (again decided to do a shorter A time with the short AM nap)
S: 2h45m!! --- took 40 m for him to go down, woke up a few times but settled himself and back to sleep quickly
BT hopefully now (DH is upstairs with him). It's been almost 4h A time which probably seems short after such a long PM nap but he was crabby and rubbing his eyes pretty good.

Hope we caught up some today!

[Erin M]

Glad you caught up!  Didn't get a chance to reply yesterday, but I think you're right with scaling back a bit (though you still got a short nap in the AM after scaling back) on the A time to catch up.  Yes, EBT is going to be your best friend here, though I understand that it is hard to actually have it happen sometimes!  He could be that type of baby that decides that he is only going to take one long nap at this point -- I'll mention that with my dd1, she got to the point where she would refuse more than one nap and I'd have to APOP a short AM nap in order to get some sleep into her, then do a longer PM one a few hours later.  Not exactly the traditional way to do the 2-1, but it was what worked for us.  Your short AM/longer PM day reminds me very much of that.