Help with 6.5 mo old routine at daycare

[lize566]

I originally posted in the sleep forums bc Ds was having screaming fits all night and fighting sleep something awful, but Ali thinks that its his routine causing the NW, so now im here and I apologize in advance for the lengthiness of this post; I'm summarizing the other post:

6.5 months old roughly, at the end of a wonder week, sleeps on his tummy in his crib with no swaddle, BF with solids 2-3 times a day, has reflux but is on medicine and the dr seems to think it's under control (I would agree if it weren't for this sleep issue!) No signs of teething. Never been a great sleeper at home. He uses a pacifier but can put it in himself. I often have to bounce or stand up and sway to get him asleep.

His schedule when at daycare:

W/u and Eat 7:15, give or take 15 minutes
E cereal 8:30
S 9-10:30
E 10:30 4 oz bottle
E cereal and fruit/veggie 11:15
S 12 or 12:30-215/2:30
E 2:30 4 oz bottle
S 4-4:30 this nap fluctuates the most...could be up to 30 minutes later, and he sometimes sleeps as long as 45  minutes but never longer than that
E BF 5:30
E solids 6:15
S 7 sometimes nurse if he didn't nurse well at 5:30...I need him to nurse b/c I'm so full so I usually offer. It's about 50/50 on whether he eats good or not. Short wind-down (perhaps needs to be longer?) and I lay him down asleep b/c he rarely stays awake through the whole wind down.
NW1 7:30-8 he ALWAYS wakes up within an hour of going to sleep. I nurse if he didn't nurse well earlier in the night ( I know I sound really wishy washy, but I usually feed him 2x in the evenings, the times just vary)

This past week, including weekends during which he rarely naps longer than and hour and 15 minutes, usually only 35-45, and therefore isn't getting as much day time sleep, he has slept a little better, but is still getting up every 3-4 hours. And he is either hungry from a growth spurt or I've gotten him I the habit of eating everytime he wakes up : /

I know he needs longer A time, but here are the challenges with that 

The babysitter  has other kids that need her attention for meals and naps at the following times :

Drop off and Breakfast 8:30 (he eats solids)
Lunch 11:15 (he gets a bottle at 10:30 then solids at this time)
Nap 12:15 there isn't really time for her to feed him at all between 11:15-12:15
Snack  (he is getting a bottle at 2:30)

Ideally we want him napping at least some of the time the older kids are down (including his big brother so I agree with them having the same nap in the pm) which is roughly 12:15-2:30. 

And I'm pumping in the morning at 6:30 and nursing at 7:30. I really need to pump in the am so in afraid ink start waking him too much earlier I will lose that opportunity to pump, which means I will have to supplement with formula which I was hoping to avoid. 

So what do you think? I've looked at other schedules, but just can't come up with one that fits similar to what he's doing now. The only solution I have is to cap his AM nap at 1 hr from 9:30-10:30, then move his PM nap to 1-2:30. That would still have him taking a catnap around 5 (assuming he will, that when I pick him up so there are no guarantees.)

Please help!!! I'm exhausted!

[jessmum46]

I agree with Ali - the routine that he has at the moment is too young for him and that is most likely the cause for your night wakings.  Typically waking an hour after BT is usually OT, but in your case I suspect it could actually be the opposite and that late catnap is causing more trouble than it's worth.

The only solution I have is to cap his AM nap at 1 hr from 9:30-10:30, then move his PM nap to 1-2:30. That would still have him taking a catnap around 5 (assuming he will, that when I pick him up so there are no guarantees.)

I wouldn't normally advise capping naps at this age as OT can set in very quickly.  I still think this routine with a late CN won't solve your problems, and actually we need to try to figure out a way of getting him onto two solid naps.

Could your sitter gradually push his morning nap out by 10 mins every 3 day until it is starting at 9.30/45?  He could then sleep until 11/11.15 and have a bottle at that point instead of lunch, then have his lunch when the older kids go for their nap.  If she could then work on pushing his second nap closer to 1.30/2 (so some overlap with older kids) then he could sleep as long as he wanted, ideally to 3.30/4 which would get you to a 6.30/7pm BT without the need for a CN?

How does that sound?

[lize566]

That sounds doable! See this is why I posted here, I just couldn't wrap my brain around it! Thanks, I'll run this past her

[jessmum46]

Great hope it works out for you

[lize566]

I though of another question! Would he just get his last bottle when he wakes up around 3:30-4 or whenever? Then he wouldn't be hungry when he got home at 5:30, but would I offer anyway, then offer solids half hour before bedtime? Seems like a lot of eating in that amount of time.

[jessmum46]

For me to advise you a little better about feeds, are you feeding formula or EBM during the day?  Do you do bottles when you're not working or is it only with the sitter? How much milk (oz) does he have during the day?  Are the bottles he is offered only 4oz or is that all he takes? How long have you been on solids and doing three meals? 

At 6.5mo he is still very young to be on three meals a day so that may be something to consider if it seems like you're trying to fit too much into a short space of time.

[lize566]

Ok I've tried to respond 3x now and I keep getting interrupted! He gets 4-4.5 oz bc that about all I can pump and often times he doesn't finish if I give him more. He's been on solids since about 5 mo, 3 meals a day since 6 mo, but dinner doesn't always happen. Besides the 2 4 oz bottles he nurses 3-5x, depending on night wakings. He eats for roughly 5 min/side and seems to empty that particular side. He will sometimes seem hungry still and I offer the other.

This has been the routine this week:

Wake 7:15ish, nurse 7:30
Breakfast 8:30
Slept 915 to 1015
Ate 1030
Lunch 11:15
Slept 1215 to 215
Ate 230
Sleeping 430
BT 7:45

She's woken him from each nap and his last nap is never more than 30 min. We've had 2 nights of east BT and only 1 or 2 NW, and no screaming fits. Last night and tonight he has woken 45 min after BT, plus 2 more BW (I've been feeding at 1 NW and he eats well). I was so excited about the 2 great evenings and nights!! But now I'm not sure what's going on

[jessmum46]

Feeds wise looks ok . At that age we did a feed at wakeup, after each nap (two naps) and at bedtime, plus a night feed, with solids an hour after BF.  We didn't do dinner until 7 months and it wasn't a proper meal really until 8/9 months - more of a snack.

I still think that you need to consider what I said earlier, both about getting your sitter to work towards an age-appropriate two nap routine, and not capping naps.  He is almost certainly OT at bedtime on that routine hence the 45 min wake ups and night wakings. 

Have you had a look at this link? All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[lize566]

No I haven't, but I will and she's on board with that, but he struggles to stay awake until 9:15 and 12:15. I'm on Christmas break now anyhow, so by the time he goes back in 2 weeks he will hopefully be more used to longer A times bc he does them at home. Unfortunately he naps terribly though so its a much more inconsistent schedule. I am going to work towards one I think will work if I can him to take long enough naps.

[jessmum46]

Just increase A time between 5-10 mins every 3 days to help him get used to it Have a lovely Christmas!

[lize566]

Ok, so what about a 30 min wake up after bedtime? UT? Im so lost. And frustrated.

[lize566]

He goes down super easy the first time. Then he wakes up 30 mins (sometimes an 45-60 min) after and is much more difficult to get back down. I've done all this before, but for some reason I just can't seem to figure him out!

[jessmum46]

30 mins after bedtime also classic OT . Can you do BT any earlier? As in asleep by 2h max after he wakes from the catnap?

[lize566]

Yes, right now I can. I wasnt sure what the a should be after the catnap, so thank you! When I work I don't know that I can, but hopefully by the time I go back to work we will have a better routine!

[jessmum46]

Keep us posted