Does EASY really work for all children?

[tracefo]

My daugter is now 17weeks old.  We just transitioned to a 4 hour EASY routine and I was hoping that would help with the 45 minute nap problems.  She has no problem going 4 hours between feeds but she just can't seem to sleep for 2 hours at a time.  She sleeps well at night usually about 10 hours.  We have tried wake to sleep, pu/pd and EASASE but none of it works consistently.  I'm tired of holding my daughter down in her bed and picking her up just to put her back down to cry again.  I'm tired of having a great day with one of these techiques only to be followed by a horrible day where I have done the exact same thing and she will not go back to sleep.  I feel like I'm fighting with her all the time to sleep.  We have a good wind down routine, she falls asleep on her own, she transitions with no problems at night.  If this is a developmental thing why do we keep trying to fight it.  My question is:  Is there an EASY routine that works for a child who is not ready to nap 2 hours at a time.  I really want what's best for my baby so if there isn't one than maybe we'll just have to wing it from now on.  She is such a happy baby except when I'm trying to get her to sleep longer or she's been kept up to get her to the next Eat, Activity cycle.  I've seen questions like this a lot on the forum and I really don't think anyone has given any answers other than ways to extend naps.  Does EASY really work for all children?  It's a great idea but....
Tracey
The very frustrated mom of Micah who just want to enjoy being a mom.

[Deb_in_oz]

hi Tracey - as a mother who has used EASY successfully with 2 very different kids i have to say that it can work for everyone - it depends on how you look at EASY - i think of it as a philosophy, not a routine.  olivia is now turning 9 mo and i  think i can count on my fingers how many 2 hour+ naps she has had. i don't think this makes EASY any less successful.  EASY is a method of working off your lo cues and getting to know their temperament so that it is easier to meet their and your needs (they nap regularly and independently giving you some freedom, you learn to understand difference between hungry/tired/bored/overstimulated, you don't leave them to CIO, etc .

yes, in the early months you shoudl be striving to extend any nap that only goes 45 min as that is often an indication that they cannot resettle into a 2nd sleep cycle, but ifr they do sleep 1-1 1/2 hrs and seem rested and  happy then i would get them up. if they only sleep 30-45 min then i think the point of EASY woudl be to look at what is causing the short naps - temperment, overstimulation, incorrect amount of A time, lack of wind down, etc

We have a good wind down routine, she falls asleep on her own, she transitions with no problems at night.

She sleeps well at night usually about 10 hours

these are signs that EASY is working and that you are doing a good job. if she is only 17 weeks old you could try aiming for 3-3.5 hr EASY cycles and feed a little after waking to be closer to 3.5-4hrs for E to match when she is actually hungry. what is her temperment - not all temp. are ready for 4 hrs at 4 mo.

do you want to post her day and see if there is anythign to tweak??

[Taylor's Mommy]

Completely agre with Debi, she couldn't have said it better!

I too can count on my hands how many 2 hour naps Taylor has had! :lol:   Many days she does 1hour 15 min.-1 hour 45 min. and it is just fine with her and me.  She wakes up happy so I just go with it.  Much less stressful than trying to get her to nap exactly 2 hours.

HTH

[mommytsa]

I had a very hard time with DS's naps until....well, some days I still have a very hard time with DS's naps!    :lol:
Here's how I looked at his day:
4 hours between feeds
2 hours of A time

Sometimes it got a little hairy because the E would fall either right before or even during the S, but we just went with it.  I would post a schedule or a "typical" day, but there wasn't one.  Every day was different.  But we stuck with the more global BW philosophies, and things are now settling into a more predictable pattern.  Just try and be consistent with the most important things (ie, no feeding to sleep, no CIO), and relax a bit so you can enjoy your LO now.  JMO.

[tracefo]

I'd love to post her day but they are never the same.
Here's sort of what it's like
8 am wake
8:15 Eat
8:35 Activity
10 am sleep
10:45 wake (trying wake to sleep works occasionally, how long should we try for each time?  I could be in there until noon still trying) or Activity time (Do we base the next sleep cycle on this time or try to keep her up until 2 (that's a very long time) or just watch her sleep cues which would be around 12:45)
12 Eat (This varies, if I feed her much before the 3.5 hour mark she just plays on the boob)
12:20 Activity
2 Sleep
2:30 wake (same routine as above) Activity
And here's where we let her decide on the sleep schedule and the rest of the day get mixed up
6 Eat
7 sleep but very hard to get down
7:30 wake and Eat
8 activity time
9 Eat and to bed for the night (Ususally doesn't dream feed as will not go down for the night earlier than this)

But as I've said it is very difficult to have even a routine later in the day because the sleeps are so short.  I've tried putting her back to sleep but she usually won't sleep until she's eaten again.  I can tell the hungry cries and she's not hungry until usually about the 4 hour mark, except in the evening when she eats a lot more often.
 :?

[Taylor's Mommy]

I would put her down around 12:45 by following her sleep cues...don't keep her up until 2.

after she eats at 3, could she go until 7?  so then it would look like this:

3pm E
3:30 A
between 5-6 S (catnap is a freebie, so do whatever you can to get her to sleep a little at this time)
7pm E, bath/bedtime routine
7:30 S

Since she doesn't wake until 8am, you could probably put her to bed closer to 7:30.  If she wakes at 7:30 for a feed after being to sleep for 30 minutes, feed but right back to bed...NO A.  But by possibly moving the feed to 7pm instead of 6 pm, you should eliminate the need to feed again at 7:30.

HTH

[Deb_in_oz]

at 4 mo old i think you shoudl try to reduce her A time in the morning and see if the 1st nap starts to improve.  for many babies their A time increases through the day but i think at 4 mo a 2 hr morning A time and short naps = overtired = why she is so hard to get to bed before 9pm. once she is getting more daytime sleep she iwll be rested and go down for naps and bedtime without too much drama.  if she wakes from 1st nap at 45 min i would spend 20 min at least (if not a whole cycle of 45 min if you can)  trying to resettle - i know she currenlty won't go back without eating again, but that's probably just a habit and if you want to break it you woudl have to work on teaching her to resettle - using pat/shh or PU/PD and being consistent - that is what sends the message that it is still sleep time.  anytime you try to change things it takes time for them to learn the new way...

another option is if she really won't go back to sleep you can get her up for some A time - i did this occasionally at 3-4 months - maybe 20 minutes or until she starts yawning again and then go and do windown and put her to bed again and hope she does another 45 minutes. at least that allows for the possiblity that she will be better rested for the next cycle. 

in the example you gave you showed her nap from 2-2:30 pm.  that means she has only slept 1hr 15 min at that point. i woudl definitely spend up to 45 min keeping her in the cot for additional rest and/or put her back down at 4pm for a hopefully long catnap.

remember to take short naps into account - if she has slept only a little you might need to shorten her next A time a bit.

BTW what is her temperment?

[tracefo]

I think she is a spirited baby.  She is very alert.
I've tried putting her down earlier for the night but she just wakes up expecting another feed.  I will try again but I think her clock says 9pm, bedtime!  So just to be clear if I put her down at 7 and she wakes up again feed her, even though it's only 45 minutes if that, and put her right back to bed?

[tracefo]

Also, how many times should I do that?  Just keep putting her back to bed until she stays for the night?

[Deb_in_oz]

hi - no - what i am referrig to is resettling her during the daytime.

the reason she won't go to bed until 9 pm is not that she is a night owl but rather that she is so overtired by "bedtime" from lack of daytime sleep that she cannot unwind properly and settle into sleep.

when she starts napping better (longer and more often - try for 3 reasonable naps at that age) in the day she will be ready for bed between 6:30- 7:30 depending on how her days go. not being ready for bed until 9 is a very big sign of overtiredness.

if she wakes after 45 min you don't need to feed again, but need to use pat/shh (PU/PD is generally too stimulating for spirited babies) until you get her to sleep again. patience and consistency are the keys.

if she is spirited definitely reduce her A time (i suggest sticking to 3- 3.5 EASY until she is regularly napping for up to 1 1/2 hrs at a time)  and put away any toys you currently have with lots of bells and whistles (flashing lights etc) until she is at least 6 months and more settled. keep playtime calm and let her look at things and touch soft toys etc.  make sure her room is dark. if you can get a whitenoise machine i woudl recommend that as well - the trick w/ spiriteds is to go low-key and block out all stimulation when they are sleeping (they can find stimulation in a shadow on the wall  :lol:  :roll: )

[Mom to M&M]

Hi Debra... What would three naps of reasonable length look like? Wondering as am adjusting my 14-week old's schedule (she's on 4-hour EASY due to reflux eating and medication issues).

[Deb_in_oz]

for each child that woudl be different but for this case i say 3 of reasonable length because currently she is not napping much - so for her i mean at least 1 that is 1hr 30 and 2 of at least 45 min - preferably 2 of 1hr 30 + catnap but that might come in time - and only on certain days.

for other babies "reasonable length" might be accepting 1hr 30 instead of 2hrs +....

[tracefo]

Well, that 7:30 bed time was a disaster.  We got her to bed no problem because I had tried to extend her naps all day.  However, all I think I have accomplished is teaching my daughter to need help settle when she transitions at night now.  Something she was previously having no problems with until I started wake to sleep and resettling her.  She was up at 9:30 for a dream feed, 11:30, 1:30, 3:30, 4:00, 4:30 and finally at 5 after a five minute resettle I got up and fed her.  She went back down at 6 and woke again at 7:15.  So I am no longer going to try and extend her naps.  We are totally at a loss for what to do this morning because she ate at 5, slept til 7 I tried to feed her at 8 and she wouldn't take a full feed but she seemed hungry, was rooting and crying the hungry cry.  Now she isyawning and getting fussy which usually means sleep, but it's only 8:30.  She'll probobly be hungry again soon so even if she does sleep she'll wake because she needs to eat.  Where do we go from here.  At least when she was sleeping through the night we could start each day off fresh.
[ put away any toys you currently have with lots of bells and whistles (flashing lights etc)] She never plays with these, all she has is a bear with a blanket or her hands to play with, as I've tried to keep stimulation as low key as possible as suggested in other posts.
[/make sure her room is dark. if you can get a whitenoise machine i woudl recommend that as well ]  The room is as dark as it is at night and the white noise just distracts her, she tries to find out where it's coming from.  I've tried to reduce visual stimulation by putting my hand above her eyes, not touching her, but she's so busy trying to move away from my hand she can't get to sleep.
I've tried everything suggested.  All I've succeeded in doing is teaching my daughter to need help to transition which means she is now not sleeping during the day or the night.  She will take longer naps when she is ready.  I'm just going to try and get our nights back now.  I appreciate all of the advice but I'm not a bad mum just because she hasn't developed enough to nap for long periods.  What is the point of trying so hard to teach her this skill if she is not ready and in the process every other sleep skill is being ruined (I've been trying to get her to sleep for half an hour now, she used to be able to fall asleep on her own)?  Once she is ready I'll be able to use EASY again until then I'll just take what works from the book and leave the rest.
Thanks for trying.

[Meg's Mom]

Hi Tracyfo

I am entering this discussion late and have read the entire thread - i wanted to reply to your last post. 

The nature of the board is to support parents and to provide them with options and choices-- not to make them feel inferior and incompetent.  I don't think anyone thinks you are a "bad mum".  We are all doing our best to care and love our babies.  I hope you don't think anyone was trying to say anything different.  Only you can decide what will work for your family.

Tracy Hogg specifically designed the site, as a safe-haven for parents who want to build their confidence as well as to support others. 

We are here to help should you desire it.

If you wish to discuss anything with myself please feel free to email me.

HTH!

[Deb_in_oz]

HI

I don't think you are a "bad mom" for anything - you are actually the complete opposite - i don't think things have to be "by the book" for us to be good moms - i think the fact that you care about your daughter and are trying to do right by her is the definition of a "good mom".

We are totally at a loss for what to do this morning because she ate at 5, slept til 7 I tried to feed her at 8 and she wouldn't take a full feed but she seemed hungry, was rooting and crying the hungry cry. Now she isyawning and getting fussy which usually means sleep, but it's only 8:30. She'll probobly be hungry again soon so even if she does sleep she'll wake because she needs to eat. Where do we go from here. At least when she was sleeping through the night we could start each day off fresh

I know how frustrating this scenario can be as it happened all the time with olivia (dd2).   when they feed at 5-5:30 and go back to bed it can throw off the idea of a "routine" because they might not be hungry at the expected time. on days when this happened  i woudl always offer food in the A time and then top up before the nap (not to sleep) and put down for the nap when ready - at 8:30 she was up 1 1/2 hrs so i really think that is good enough  A time at 4 mo for a spirited lo- i always worried that olivia woudl wake from hunger if she did not eat well at 1st feed, and sometimes it did mean a 45 min nap but i think it is better to get her to bed when tired and not miss the window and then tweak the day as you go. but that is me, bottom line is you have to do what is comfortable for you. we had so many 45 min naps (especially in the mornign) at that stage that i was certainly no worse off if she woke from hunger at 45 min, and there was always the chance that because i got her to bed early enough she woudl nap well (so better off)
 

if you want to take it from here without me offering any more advise i will not be offended, but if you want me to check back and see how things progress let me know. i will refrain form commenting firther until i hear from you.

I think you are doing a great job BTW - any of my suggestions or comments were meant to be taken as a plan for change for the long run not intending to imply that you shoudl have achieved change overnight and i am sorry if that implication was there for you...