Want to start 9 month old on EASY Need HELP

[AlexasMama]

 :)hi Everyone.  I just came across the Baby Whisperer in a desperate walk through my bookstore.  I devoured the book and am ready to start on EASY.  I looked over some of the sample schedules and they look easy enough except the going to sleep without the breast.  This is a short profile of dd.  We've coslept pretty much from about 8 weeks old to handle the night wakings. She wakes many times at night to just get a nip at the breast and usually goes right back to sleep.  Sometimes she does stay latched on for a very long time.  She naps around 10 (feeding to sleep) and at 1 or 2 the same way.  Naps have always been super short 30-45 minutes unless I rescue her with the breast.  As she gets older she is more and more resistant to other ways of being put to sleep  by me. I am unsuccessful with patting her and shushing her in the crib.  She knows I will pick her up and bf her .  We just went through a 4 day stint of trying to cry it out and I just couldn't go any further.  She was more sleep deprived than ever.  Couple questions--- is co-sleeping out of the question if we are going to do this?  and how do I possibly get started with putting her down awake without a very long and exhausting crying session? Even if we do a nice calming routine.  Also, is bfing to sleep never ever going to happen again.  This is a precious moment that I would hate to see completely go. 
Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.  I'll keep skimming other posts but I thought I could get help with my specific circumstance and concerns.

[rebecaq]

Hi! and welcome to BW!!

Wow, sounds like starting EASY is a good way to go.  And EASY goes well with BFing so please don;t think of it as an end of a nice moment for you.  However BF'ing to sleep is adorable now that she's still small, the bigger she gets the less adorable it will be. Plus, it's a prop. In her mind breast=sleep, and the more it goes on the longer it will take her to learn to fall asleep on her own.  At night, when it's the last feed, it's ok if she falls asleep at that one, because she's tired from the day, but for naps I highly recommend that it stops.

Co-Sleeping and BF'ing is also going to make EASY harder. EASY is about setting up a predictable routine for your baby and finding a happy medium for both you and her. If she's so dependant on you then you must not be getting a full night's rest, or some "you" time during her nap. Mommies need a break too 

Do you have a routine during the day? Is she eating solids?

I'll wait to see if you have a routine to explain what I think the best way to go is 

[Haydens Mommy]

Hi Everyone!!!  I am new to BW too!!! I was struggling and looking where to begin when i came across this post!! I am desparte and wanting to start EASY with my 9mth old too!!!! Hayden is a beautful happy 9 mth old boy!!! His problem (or mine!) is sleeping!!!  Things you should know: 1. he is bottlefed and i have gotten to the point that I give him the bottle in bed because he wakes up so often (Bad I know!) That is why I was despartely looking for something like this. 2. Nap time is very short never and consistant (AM naps are usually 1-1.5 hrs, PM naps 20 mins-30 mins) 3. He wakes up at least 2 times a night (wanting a bottle? he takes it!) max 7, usually about 3.  4. He doesn't go to sleep easliy. We have tried the "cry to sleep" which breaks my heart and As soon as he wakes up he cries looking for us.

My problem is that I have read the  "HOW to start EASY for over 4 mths and i have a few questions:
This is how i read the schedule
7am -wake up
      - Feed (bottle, cereal or both?)
      - Activity time ( 2-3 hrs)
9:10 -Pre-nap in crib
9:30- Nap
11   - Wake up
       - Feed
       - Activity
1240 - Pre nap in crib
1      - nap
3       -Wake up
        - feed
        -activity
5-6   - capnap if needed
6-630 - Bedtime
10-11 - Dreamfeed


Q's I have:
1. I thought that it was a 4 hr schedule.....why is the schedule say that they wake up at 11 and go down for a nap at 1?
2. The "Feeds"  Is this solid and bottle. Right now Hayden is on solids and tends to have most of his formula at night...hence my problem...when should i give it to him during the day as he eats solids 3x a day...sometimes a snack in between.
3. If he "cat naps" in PM how late should Bedtime be pushed?
4.Is it horrible if the schedule was bumped up an hour?? (i.e. wake at 8, nap time at 1030, bedtime at 7 etc) It is similar to his wishy washy schedule now so i'm thinking it might help the transistion and be easier on mom.

Thanks for the help! This information has been a godsend. it is so straightforward and clear (for the most part!!) Exactly what I have needed for the last 9 mths!!!!

[AlexasMama]

This is what our typical day looks like although sometimes naps times are a little wishy washy.

7-7:30 awake
8 breakfast   toast a little fruit   (not a great solids eater yet)
10-10:30  bf to sleep.  takes about 30 minutes.  longest nap is 45 minutes.  if i rescue with the breast may go to 1.5 hours
12  lunch solids  vegies
2:00 ish maybe 3:00 nap, same routine bf to sleep may take 30 minutes stays asleep independently 20-45 minutes
6:00 dinner
6:30 bath or play time
7 or 7:30 bf to bed
she stays asleep for about 45 minutes then dh goes in and soothes back to sleep.  She may stay another hour or two.  By the time we go to be we just put her in with us.  Most of the time co-sleeping is nice.  She latches on a few times during the night and goes right back to be.  The rough part is about 5 am when she seems to be off and on the breast until she wakes up at 7.  She seems to be doing this less and less.  But she does get some feeding in and that is why I don't offer the breast as soon as she wakes up. 
Although....I've been trying to ease into and EASY routine so I've been trying to set a schedule where she bf's then eats solids later, gets some A time, (begins to fall apart) bf's then is put to sleep. 

Your guidance is much appreciated. I'm sorry to see that someone is having the same concerns but hopefully we can get through this together. 
Both DH and I enjoy co-sleeping but I desperately NEED her to take better naps.   I have very little me time and can't really get out to do anything and leave her for an hour or two with anyone if it during her nap.
Thank you 

[* Paula *]

Hugs, it sounds like you are both going through a rough time.

With regards to getting EASY started, the key word is consistency.  Start as you mean to carry on.  You cannot say you will do one thing and then in an hour cave in, as your lo that they will get what they want to fall asleep.

To get yourself started on EASY, I would pick a time that you are going to start your day i.e. 7:00am / 8:00am, and this is going to be the same time that you start your day every day.  Again the key word is consistency.

On a 4 hour routine you will be looking to milk feed every 4 hours, and offering your solids at around 1 hour after your milk feed. i.e 7:00 feed, Sleep, and 11:00 feed again and so your routine goes on.  The 4 hour routine set out in the book is set out for a 4 month old, so the A and S times would differ slightly, and you will probably only have 2 naps in the day.

To help get established on your routine, if your lo is still asleep at an E time, I would suggest waking your lo up and offering the feed at the time it is due.  This is so that you can get your routine established.

With regards to getting your lo to sleep.  All naps and night time sleep should be in her cot.  At this stage she is not going to be used to what is going on, and not understand why you are making her sleep in the cot instead of co sleeping.  When she cries, you pick her up, console her and then put her back in their cot.  This is called PU/PD, and you could be there for a long time, and might have to pick her up well over 100 times.  Remember she is not understanding why you are not feeding her to sleep.  She is going to cry, but it is probably going to be harder on you than it is on her.

It might also be worth popping over to our Nap boards and see if there is any advice on there as well.

The first few days are going to be hard, but just remember, that the hard work is going to be worth it in the end.

When your lo wakes early from a nap, it is suggested that you do PU/PD again to try and get them to extend their nap.

Haydens Mummy, at 9 months your lo should not need the catnap, and I would also not suggest doing the DF as this milk would cut into his daytime intake.  I would also aim for him to have 3 bottles during the day, Morning, Afternoon and before bed.  This should be his intake for the day.

Hope this info helps, please let us know if you have any other queries.

Good luck with getting started 

[Haydens Mommy]

Thanks Tom Tom's Mum!! That is a great help!
Unfortunatley my little guy has an ear infection right now and isn't doing very well...as a result i think i will have to wait a week for it clear up to begin! I am anxiously looking forward to it!

[AlexasMama]

Thank you for all the info. and encouragement.  I am literally SCARED to start this as our experience with Cry it out was truly heartbreaking.  Every child's temperment is different but do you have an idea of how many days this can go on?  Will I see progress within a day or two?  Do you have total faith in this process?  Alexa is a head strong child and I've trained her well I suppose.  I do believe it is for the better but I want to know that you have faith that this will work if I am consistent of course. 
So.. it's ok to bf to sleep for the night time feed correct?  Then no feeds at all the whole night?   Just PU/PD.  Should I start with naps first then work up to nighttime sleep or do both at the same time?  Also... in the begining can bfing be used as part of the soothing routine?  This is probably a no but just thought I'd ask.
Do you think that because she is probably taking several ounces at night that is why she's not big on solids yet.?

[AlexasMama]

Just a couple quick questions.... for a 9 almost 10 mo, I am doing a 4 hour feeding schedule correct? So if she's up at 7am, nap 1 should be at 9:30 or 10.  Nap 2 should be 1:30 or 2?  Milk Feeds are at 7, 11, 3 and at 7pm or so with breakfast, lunch and diner occuring approximately 1 hour after the milk feed.  No dream feed and pupd at night.  We use music before and during naps.  I can't remember what Tracy says about this.  Still ok?  My head is spinning but I think I'm almost ready.   

[* Paula *]

Haydens Mummy, I am so sorry to hear about your little guy's ear infection.  My DS suffered terribly with ear infections, so I know what you are going through.  Hugs, I hope he feels better soon.  Is he on any meds at the moment?

AlexasMama, that is fantastic that you are so motivated.  Yes, Tracy's methods are fantasic, and I can tell you that I would not have the toddler we have today if it were not for Tracy and all the lovely ladies on this board.

Tracy's methods do not suggest cry it out.  If your lo is crying, and you are with your lo, it is not considered as crying it out.

Your lo is 10 months old and she has been used to this routine for a while now, so it will probably take some time breaking the habits that your lo is set in, but again, the key is persistence and consistency.  Remember, we will be here with you every step of the way.

Ideally you want to try not to feed to sleep (even at night), although once in a while after a busy day, is not a problem at all.  I would not use BF to try and soothe your lo, as this could turn into a prop.  Perhaps try and introduce a lovey i.e. a blanket or a teddy bear that your lo can use for comfort.  This is going to be her comfort item (we use a blanket), and she should have it with her when it is bedtime or when she is unhappy.  Personally I don't think that music is a prop, our DS has a music light that shines on the ceiling that we use for nap times and bed time.  We still use it now as part of our bedtime routine.

I do think that because she is taking so many feeds during the night that this is the reason that your DD is not eating a lot of solids during the day.

Night time is probably going to be the hardest as your DD is so used latching on when she wakes in the middle of the night.  It might be worth asking DH to do the PU/PD, so that she does not smell your milk, and it will proably make things a bit easier.

Be prepared for a rocky road, Rome was not built in a day, but I promise you that once you have gotten your DD into an established routine, you will not look back 

With regards to naps, I would follow your lo's cues to see when she is ready for her nap.  Your lo may not still need 4 milk feeds, might be worth trying 3, although I don't suggest trying to change too many things too quickly. 

Good luck, and let us know if you have any queries.

Paula

[jennie marie]

never done this before so not sure how it works.  just wanted to tell alexis mama that it is possible to break the feeding to sleep routine.  i fed or rocked (mostly boob) my 6 month old boy to sleep for 5 months and it was a lovely ritual that we both enjoyed but I got to breaking point and became too exhausting esp at night every 1-2 hrs!!!!  so had to do something about it.  i thought in my head "he's NEVER going to go to sleep any other way' but to my surprise he has - we have to have faith in these clever little beings!!  i used to read the shush and patting method and think oh yeah right as if he is going to buy that all he wants is boob.  he also slept in a hammock and so had to phase that out too and put him in his cot.  i so wanted to co-sleep but he woke every hour next to me.  made sure i did the feed/play/sleep EASY routine v important and also trained my husband on that as he always passed him to me when upset for the boob!!!  so had to be very strict.  we started by introducing a dummy so he is still sucking to sleep but soon i am going to phase that out.  he also has going to sleep and when asleep music - good transition as when he is really crying this quite loud calms him down!!  if it went to more than 1-2 hours trying to get him to sleep with PU/PD and a few little i'm tired and need to sleep grizzles but NEVER crying it out I would feed him again as he would be hungry and then we would start the routine again but the activity part would be shorter as he would be very tired.  so just kept repeating this process and to my delight and surprise he is buying it and it only took a couple of weeks to get to this stage (no hammock no boob to sleep) but esp 3 hard days then the rest not too bad.  we are still tweaking it as he still has dummy as a prop and needs it put back in in the night and i still feed him once on the night as i'm sure he is hungry??!!! maybe not so will look at dropping that soon too.  one thing at a time i think.  i just wanted you to know that it is possible from someone that felt trapped and thought it would never happen - do it slowly in transitions and trust that you little one will be able to do it with your love and encouragement.

[* Paula *]

jennie marie - Firstly welcome to the BW Boards.

That is fantastic news that you have been able to break the cycle.  Sounds like you are doing a fantastic job.  Just wanted to let you know that my DS had a pacci, and he had this until he was about 16 months old before we took it off him.  As long as it does not become a prop, they are ok to have them.

If you are finding that it is becoming  a prop, then you can always pop over to the prop boards and get some advice from there on weaning.

[Haydens Mommy]

Paula...Hayden is on meds right now....we are not having any fun! We have a runny nose, a cough, and diarreah. He is cranky (rightfully so!), whinny and crying a lot. his 20 mins have moved to 2 hours which is nice and his night pattern of 2 feeds hasn't changed (remember i haven't started EASY because he is sick).  He is yawning all the time... i don't know...it is really hard to read him right now...we are going on 2 weeks and mommy needs a holiday!

[* Paula *]

Hugs, it sounds like you both are going through a rough time.

At the moment Hayden is not himself, and if he is so unwell, I would not worry too much about routine at the moment.  When my DS was not well our routine went completely out the window, and we started over when he was feeling better.

If he falls alseep on you and you cuddle him all the time that is fine - anything goes when our lo's are not well.

Sounds like he is catching up on some sleep - he sounds like he is sleeping well.  I would not worry too much about his cues at the moment.

Wait until he is better or even after you come back from holiday to start your routine - he needs to be loved and cuddled so much more now when he is not well.

Please keep us posted on how he is feeling 

[* Paula *]

AlexasMama and Haydens Mommy,

Just wanted to check in and see how you both are getting on?

[Haydens Mommy]

Sorry its been a while...Mommy, Daddy and Hayden got the flu!!! No fun. Hayden stopped eatting (maybe a hand ful of cheerios) solids and will only take formula at night!!!  FMD said that is normal when they have the flu. I believe he is well on his way to recovery. He is eatting a few more solids but refuses to eat babyfood (he pushes it way before he even tastes it...is that normal?) and refuses to drink formula during the day. He will only take it at nap times and at bed time. Naps have dropped back to 1 hr in am and 20 mins in pm. Moods are getting better. Time to try easy? I'm worried about formula. He won't take it when he is awake. What do i do???