30 min afternoon nap wakes crying

[jessmum46]

Do you have a good sense of his total sleep needs in 24h?  It might be a case of working out how best to distribute that to avoid OT.  For example DD is generally much happier on a 12h night and quick 15 min catnap (bear in mind she's quite a bit older than your LO) than on a 1.5h nap and 10.5-11h night, even though the sleep totals are the same.  If his nights are getting really short and he's grumpy, you may need to cut out some daytime sleep to get them to lengthen again. 

[Chloevalentine]

Like yesterday we were out and about all day so he had both his naps in car two 30 min naps and he was happy and pleasant all day! He was up at 550 am and I'm bed at 730 pm!! Today he's up again at 550 am! Which is so early ugh. Being out and about too yesterday he also handled much longer A times no problem. But still up early and in bed late!? Is this just his new sleep pattern? I'm always hesitant to wake him from naps because his naps are ajways short so I'm always surprised and happy when I get a good one and I always think it's better for him.

[jessmum46]

Hmm.  Here a run of EWs has generally meant OT/something off with the routine and once we've worked out what and caught up on sleep, we usually get back to a normal WU time. 

Just remind me, how old exactly is he now?  What routine/A times are you now aiming for?

I know what you mean about waking from naps, I hate to do it too.  But overall I think they get better rested from night sleep than naps and if not waking from naps means you get short or disturbed nights then sometimes capping naps is the lesser of two evils. 

Have you ever tried/considered set naps?

[Chloevalentine]

He turned 10 months April 29! I let him play in crib this morning and I didn't go in and I noticed he was laying down so I watched and waited and he got comfortable and fell back asleep after 35 mins! which he never does. I felt bad not going in but he wasn't crying or calling me!  He does sleep well through the night which is why I was never concerbed with naps but this late bt and we has been going in for a while and I'm exhausted! Lol. He was doing around 3.5-3 45 min a time in morning and about 3 hrs 45 min befire second nap and about 4 hrs a time befire bed. Any less than that and he wouldn't go to sleep. I'm also going to try to drop the third 1130 am bottle but I'm nervous because he always takes a min of 7 oz but he is a good solid eater. His naps usually end up aroubd the same time anyway. Between 940-10 in am until 10:40-11-20 at latest and then 245-3 ish for second nap until 315-340 and then bedtime we start routine Around 7 asleep usually by 730 pm.

[jessmum46]

I think probably if he's having 3 lots of 3.5-4h A time in the day (and genuinely needing that long after a short pm CN to settle) then the day is likely too long and he is getting OT from too long a day and too short a night.  That only allows for 12h total sleep in 24 which for most LOs just isn't enough at this age.  It's a messy thing the 2-1, you sound like you're well into it if that's the case (we also started some one nap days from 10 months). 

Things I would try:

Rule out OT first - seeming to need 3.5-4h after a 30 min CN could well be a very OT second wind.  I would try something like 3h30-45 first A, 'long nap', 3h45 second A, 30 min nap, max 2-2.5h A before bed

Keep day to a max 12.5-13h (13h was always too much for DD and usually still is)

If no joy after trying consistently for a few days then you may need to take the plunge and start trying some one nap days.  Or cut your pm nap to 15 mins only and get him into bed earlier.  I just think at the moment he has too much total A time and you need to find some way of reducing that.  What do you think?

[Chloevalentine]

Good suggestions! I'm just afraid that after waking at 330 how can I put him to bed at 6? I did try it and he cried and was awake in crib but I could try again. Today he fell back asleep this morning and is just waking up at 720 am so his first nap won't be until 11:15 until 12:15 average so that second nap won't be until 4 until 430 so maybe I can try for a 7- 730 bedtime. I'm just worried as he's been doing 4 hrs a time but I'm willing to try! So aim for a 12-13 hr day. Which is why the 559 wake was so hard because be would be in bed befire 6! I guess the idea is to get his wake time in morning later right? When do they start handling a longer day? When the 2-1 transition is done will he be up for 5 hours befire nap and sleep a long nap and then 5 hours before bed? Thank u so much!

[Chloevalentine]

So today he took a 2 hr nap from 1030-1230. Once in a while he does this to catch up on sleep when he's not getting enough. The trouble is that he was up at 7 am snd I can't get him to take his usual catnap this afternoon. He's been up since 1230 what time should I put him to bed ? It's getting late for a nap at 4 pm.

[jessmum46]

You could try a capped 30 min nap now if you can get one (can you AP?) and BT 7/7.30pm, otherwise I'd do a 6/6.30pm BT.

In response to your previous question, don't be afraid of early bedtime.  The reason many people have trouble with it (though no guarantees it will work for every child of course) is that they don't go early enough. And LO is already OT by bedtime even if it's earlier than normal.  The trick is to get LO to bed before they get OT and often you will get tacking on and a much longer night as a result.

Often the day gets longer in the run up to nap transitions and then shorter once the nap is dropped.  A typical one nap routine to begin with would be 4.5-5h A both before and after nap, but some LOs need a bit more or less on either side.

[Chloevalentine]

He did nap from 4-430 and then I fed him at 7 and he was in bed by 715! It actually worked out good! Maybe the 3 hr A time before bed is actually better for him than 4 hours. I ajways thought he wasn't tired and not ready (and some days he's not and will cry or lay awake in crib). We will see how today goes. At what age do they typically handle the longer a times? Or is it not until they are on one nap? Thank u

[jessmum46]

Great job, I hope you had a good night

It's very difficult to say when LO will handle longer A times as there is such variation as they get older.  Some LOs will be fine with long A times and one nap before 12 months, others need to keep 2 naps and shorter A times until 18 months or beyond.  As ever it's about knowing the signs of needing an A time increase and responding to what your LO needs as best you can x

[Chloevalentine]

He's been so cranky lately and I can't think of why. He will have had a bottle and lunch and a clean diaper. But im realizing it starts in the afternoon. I think that the 30 min catnap is just not refreshing him. And I'm not sure what to do unless I just put him to bed earlier?

[jessmum46]

Remind me of what EASY you're trying currently?

If he's tired and is waking up from the pm nap cranky after 30 mins, then yes I would try earlier bedtime.   Or try the pm nap earlier.

[Chloevalentine]

This has been going on for a while now where he's just so cranky all afternoon. But I just can't get a nap longer than 30-40 mins!

A 630 ( can be as early as 545 or 7 am)
Am nap 10-11 sometimes 1120 (3.5 a time)
Pm Nap 245-315 usually 3 hrs 45 min a time sometimes less
7 feed and bed

It's really all over the place because his morning a time is all over the place. But usually 3.5 hrs a time in morning and 3.5-3 45 min a time in afternoon and then 3-4 hrs before bed. For a whike he was refusing to go to sleep under 4 hrs a time. I think he's clearly ot and then once a week does a catch up and will take a 2 he nap

[Chloevalentine]

This morning he was up at 630 but his first nap was early since he was tired yawning etc from poor naps yesterday. He slept from 935-1045. I'm nervous to try a nap at 3 hrs a time because if he only sleeps his usual 30 mins I'm in trouble with a really long a time before bed. Going to try 3 hrs 15 mins a time. But is he wakes at 230 what will bedtine be?

[Chloevalentine]

Ok he did 3 hrs 20 mins a time which is shorter than usual and he slept for 50 mins which is great but it's not to say it will ever happen again lol. Now being that he's been up since 3 and he had a 1 hr 10 min nap this morning what time should I put him to bed? I would normally do 7 but I'm wondering if that's too long? Thanks again.