Less than 30 min naps

[Jmb2008]

My dd just turned 5 months.  While her naps have never been perfect we are really a mess now.  Her easy is a mess.  She seems to want to eat more often than before, not less. And now she's started 10-20 min naps after laying her down.  Especially in the morning.  What does that mean?

[Jmb2008]

Her A time is at least two hrs.  And still swaddling.

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Hmm, that sounds rough. Does she suffer from reflux?  Teething?  Such short naps might be due to discomfort of some kind. Can you post your easy, and does she fall asleep on her own? 

[Jmb2008]

Sorry.  Had reply done then lost it. Ugh.  Finally time to do it again. 

Ok, so I have no reason so suspect reflux. She does spit up but I think just normal. And she started out with very good naps in the beginning. I feel like I have ruined them.  Not getting her schedule 'right'.  She doesn't last as long at night either.  And it seems like if I've nursed her extra during the day trying to extend an OT nap or worried that she hadn't had a full feed previously, the night is worse.

We also had to start weaning the swaddle this past Monday as I found her rolled over at night in it....
So I thought that was going well, even had an amazing night tues night.  The last two nights have been horrendous. Only lasting 1.5 hrs ish again sometimes.  She has always gone 2.5-3 hrs min so this is super frustrating!  I have one arm out right now.

My dd1 cut her first tooth at 6 mths.  Dd2 is now 23 wks tomorrow. So we're getting close to that, but I cannot see or feel anything so don't think that's it.

I generally put her to sleep-swaddle, soother, song, sit in rocking chair and pat butt.  Will generally hold 8-10 min after she closes her eyes, she transfers to crib easy. Two nights this week she's gone to sleep in the crib with me patting.  She used to do this sometimes when younger but it's been a couple months for sure. In the middle of the night I feed, maybe get a burp and can have her back down in 15 min.

Here's yesterday:
Awake 7:00
E 7:30
A
S closed eyes 8:55, in crib 9:07-9:31, heard talking
E 9:48
A
S 11:47-12:47 in the carseat, helped her settle halfway through
E 12:48, 2:43 fed again as distracted at the park
A
S closed eyes 3:07, in crib 3:17-3:43
Started resettling with soother, no.  So bf 3:48, in crib 4:14-5:00.  Woke up to preserve bedtime.
E 5:20 because fussing. And 6;47.
S closed eyes at 8:07, in crib 8:17. Then a mess of a night. Took her to bed with me at 3:20

Today.
Awake at 6:20
E 7:30
A
S closed eyes 8:48, in crib 8:58-9:18? Heard talking
E 10:17 trying to sleep
A
S closed eyes 11:30 (probably would've earlier but busy with dd1), in crib 11:35, currently helping her transition holding arm down and patting as necessary.

I've never had luck extending the first nap but if dd1 let's me the second and third naps she usually will.

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

I think the reason she's short napping is that she's not falling asleep in her crib, so when she either goes into a deep sleep or transitions through different cycles she wakes up. Also swaddle weaning can play havoc for a time but your problems started before that, am I right?  I think once you do some sleep training and get her sleeping independently things will improve. I'd also increase her first a time as two hours is a bit short for a five month old. What do you think?

[Jmb2008]

I've always held her to sleep though.  Is it a problem now because of her age?

Yes, the problem was prior to weaning the swaddle.

I know sleep training would help a lot.  And I believe she can do it as she's shown self settling skills from day 1.  I've just let her do it when she would without too much if a fuss.  If screaming started I would interfere.  I'm hesitant to do it when I feel like I don't know what her schedule is.  And I don't know how to commit with dd1 around. It's hard enough to get her to be quiet when putting dd2 down for a nap as it is...
And I'm just plain scared to do it tbh. Though I shouldn't be as dd1 was so much more trouble in the sleep department!

I agree 2hrs is not long enough.  Shes just so miserable as I think in an OT cycle. While rare she will do 3-3.5 if she's happy and there's something worth observing.  Though not her first A.  What do you think I should aim for?  What if she's so miserable that sleep is the only thing that will work?

I'm trying my hardest to extend her time between feeds as I know that helps too. 

Did 3hrs between feeds last night, but a bit unsettled.  Can they be in discomfort from teething before you can see the teeth?

We had an EW this morning.  5:30! Talking.  And bf didn't even work to put her back to sleep!
A
S 7:45-8:15
E 8:37
A at church, wouldn't go to sleep in nursery, called me in.  She was so tired!
E nursed 10:50, then woke
S 11:20-2:08, in my arms then transferred to carseat. What!
E 2:40
A
S 4:25, in crib 4:35-

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

She can obviously sleep longer can't she but I suspect it's just that by that point she's very tired. I haven't got much time at the minute but I'll try to reply properly later on.

[Jmb2008]

She's done so many long naps from the beginning, just not lately so I know it's in there somewhere.  Should I post on the easy board?

Picking up from where I left off yesterday,

S woke her at 5:15 to preserve bedtime
E 5:40
A
E 7:00
A
S tried to put to sleep on bed,  started screaming.  Wouldn't settle in my arms so bf to sleep at 7:55
In crib 8:22-9:00?, resettled with soother, in crib 9:07-11:00?
E (took longer because I fell asleep in chair)
In crib 11:32-2:53
E (took longer because I fell asleep in chair
In crib 3:25-4:25 -talking!
Resettled with soother, in crib 4:48-fail
E 5:00
In crib 5:30-7:05!  Yay!

E 7:30
A
S down drowsy/awake in crib 9:30-9:55.  Eyes popped open, no warning.  No resettling.
E 10:30 because sooooo fussy, stayed awake
A

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

Unfortunately, I really think the holding to sleep is a prop now. Does your older child go to nursery or school anytime so you can do some sleep training?  Or start on a weekend if your oh can look after her?  If you started Saturday morning you might start to see some progress by Monday. Would that work?

[Jmb2008]

Yes, I would agree
I do think its our only prop though. 

Dd1 is at home all the time. Trying to use cartoons and special treats to keep her quiet at nap time....  I will continue trying to put down drowsy and see where that gets us. And talk to dh about how to find some time. 

Thank you for your thoughts. 

[Sarah - Enfys' Mum]

There's a thread somewhere (maybe the FAQ section of the easy board?  Or the general sleep one?) about how to go about st when you've also got a toddler around. I was lucky, my dd1 is that much older and also in full time school. I imagine it would be much more difficult with a littler one.