Unable to stay asleep in the VERY early AM

[jonsmommy]

I actually posted a few times in the getting your 1 year old to soothe themself to sleep thread but realized that my sons issue is quite different.  I will copy and paste my previous posts and then his schedule. 

From yesterday-
"My 11 month old son has never been a good sleeper and out of desperation we started cosleeping again when he was about 6 months old.  We actually all love cosleeping but we decided something had to give because waking up every 1-2 hours was destroying me and our relationship. So his crib is still sidecarred but we added the 4th wall back on and started PD about a week ago. It seems to have helped in that I can get him to go down by himself and he will actually sleep a 3-5 hour stretch in contrast to his usual wake up 45 minutes after going down. The problem is after that first stretch he is a nightmare. The last 2 nights(Thursday and Friday) have been awful.  2 nights ago he was asleep at 8 instead of his usual 6:30 - 7 (DH's idea...BAD) up at 9 and back down with one PD then up at 1:30, 2:30, 3, 3:45, 4:45 when I finally laid him in bed and fed him with him staying latched on for an hour as I dozed, then took him off at 5:45 and he tried to stay awake, back in crib and slept till 6:45. And of course none of those wakings are easy, he cries then sleeps for 5 minutes then gets up again and repeat.   Then when I thought it couldn't get worse last night happened...He slept from 7-10:30 then 10:30-1:30 and then was up every 10 - 40 minutes from then until 6!!  I was beginning to think his molar was finally coming through since I can feel it under the skin but I gave him tylenol and teething tablets and he still woke up every 40 minutes. Each waking then took 5-10 minutes of PD and crying.   I just don't know what to do anymore and what I am doing wrong.  I thought that after more than a week things would be getting better not worse!

He goes to bed early
He has had a routine since a few weeks old
I have night weaned him
He puts himself to bed with me in the room but not touching him
White noise, music all night long
He is on a 4 hour EASY

I don't believe in CIO for our family but it's getting to the point that I don't know what else to do. I know that even in my darkest hours I can't just let him cry alone without me at least shushing him and reassuring him. Tonight we move the crib off the bed so we will see how that goes. I thought doing it slowly like this would be easiest on him but now I'm not so sure.  The only thing I am sure of is that I am totally at my wits end and completely exhausted and that something has to give!!  Any advice would be greatly appreciated."


Last night started out PERFECTLY!!  We moved his crib a few feet from our bed and he went down in a record 5 minutes and stayed asleep from 7:30 - 2 and then went back to sleep with one PD and slept until 3.  This was the first time he has aver slept that long!!  Then the craziness started all over again and he was up every 10-20 minutes from 3-4 at which point I made DH go to him since I thought maybe it was a milk thing since I just cut that last 3-4am feeding a few days ago.  It must have worked because finally at 4:30 he went down and slept till 5:30 at which point he woke up again and after a half hour of trying to get him back down DH just took him downstairs to have breakfast and let me sleep since I of course had insomnia during his long stretch of sleep.  It's as if he just can't get settled.  I even tried nighttime oragel and teething tablets during that 3-4 stretch.  I just feel so bad for my sleep deprived baby.  I am a grown up and can deal with it, he needs that sleep.

Here is his info...

How old is your child? 11 months
What’s his/her daily routine?
Ideally wake at 7
breakfast and nurse
play and/or go for walk
nap at 9
10-11 wake up and nurse
go out and/or play/lunch
1-2 go down for nap
3 wake and nurse
play
dinner
bedtime routine
6:30-7 bedtime
What’s nap routine?change diaper, close shades, sing song and cuddle, turn on CD and put in crib -PD last anywhere from 5-45 minutes
How long are naps? 40minutes - 1hr. 50 minutes - He ALWAYS wakes up after 40-50 minutes and I can sometimes get him back down for another 40 minutes to an hour.  Lately he has been going back down for the extended nap much better.  Could be because he is so exhausted from the night wakings.  He took a 1hr 50 min this morning and 1 hr this afternoon.
What's bedtime routine? Shower, massage/teeth and hair brushing/diaper and PJ's with daddy, Cuddle with mommy and nurse, sing our song, and in crib. Time? 6:30 - 7 but sometimes 7:30-8 if something comes up on weekends.  I generally shoot for 4 hours after he wakes from his last nap
Do you bottle or breastfed?? breastfeed
How much? or how long? 4 times a day 5-20 minutes
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) one side but have been giving both before bed since I weaned him at night
How many wakes per night? about a million  ..see above
What’s your LO like when waking at night? Stands up and cries
How long is he/she up? Sometimes less than a minute sometimes an hour or more.  Mostly he goes back to sleep easily but only lasts sleeping 10-40 minutes but usually in the 10-20 minute range.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? More of a fussing, whiney cry but can work himself up quickly Or is it a mantra cry? hasn't had a mantra cry since he was a baby
What have you tried to settle?? We have been doing PD for about a week and a half.  I shhhh him and rub his head till he stops crying and then stand back.  If he isn't crying I just PD and give him his blanket.
What do you do for A time and how long is it? We either play outside, or go to the park, or play in his play room.  We run errends, etc... About 1-2 hours.
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? I am pretty sure his molars are coming in...I feel one under the gum
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? yes, binky
Do they have a lovie? I give him a blankie every time I lay him down and he recently started sleeping with it but I wouldn't call it a true lovey as he could take it or leave it.

[JoC]

Hi, just re read your post, I think you need advice about whther to do pu/pd or wi/wo. I have read on a few posts that when they get a bit older, pu/pd drives them wild. It used to drive my ds mad and it took over two weeks to work, he too is VERY spirited and would scream unmercifully when i was in the room, much more than if i went out. I think wi/wo may be the better optin but I am really not sure maybe someone knows. 45 mins is the first sleep cycle over isn.t it, so he needs help getting back to sleep after this. I was up at 3.30 this morning but he was playing for an hour before the crying starts which is new!. I know you have been going for 9-10 days buti know it can take longer with some babies. Good luck and I hope you get some good advice, I shall be looking too!

Jo

[jonsmommy]

Jo, I actually tried WI/WO and it made him MUCH MUCH worse.  With PD he whines a bit but usually doesn't outright meltdown.  As soon as I leave the room he does.

He is drooling like crazy lately and I feel a few bumps on his gums so I am beginning to suspect that it is just his molars coming in.  At least I hope that's it!  Last night we were back to every 1-2 hour wakings and he was up from 3 - 4:45.  He then slept till 5:30 at which point I just could not physically do PD for more than an hour to just end up starting the day that early anyway so I brought him to bed and fed him and he slept till 7:10.  Part of me is wondering if he isn't just hungry at 3??  He seems to wake up at that time every night and cannot settle back down.  He will lie down, close his eyes, but then pops up a couple minutes later.  Could he genuinely be hungry at that time?

[JoC]

Hi,
I am in exactly the same position. Ds wakes and if i give him milk he will drink the lot and scream for more, i too think he is genuinely hungry. Not sure what to do either. Gave hime 5 oz this morning at 4.30 and he drank the lot, and went straiht back to sleep til 7. Not sure if i can feed him more in the day! He gets big lunch at nursery, then sandwhiches then i give him food and afters and banana and yoghurt when he gets home! 
I am wondering if they wake and cos we have always maybe fed in the past they just expect it. I have only done wi/wo 1 night as he slept til 6.15 the day after and i fed him again last night (mostly cos he vomitted after his bedtime bottle cos he did not like the taste of the bonjela), will try wi/wo again tonight but it is just so much easier to feed him at 5 when he wakes. part of me just wants to continue with that. Really confused.
Does your ds eat lots during the day? I read that if you give a night bottle and they are not hungry they will only take a bit, so he may be hungry. Is he very active? My ds NEVER sits still, he is cruising now and crawls and moves ALL the time so maybe he is using loads of calories. I have to say I have let him cry for 10-15 mins in the past and it did work for a few weeks, but then a tooth comes along (he has or he has chest infection etc and he starts waking again.
Hmm... really don't know you should do. Wish i could be more help.
Hugs, Jo

[jonsmommy]

Yes, my son is VERY active!  He never stops moving, crawling, cruising, climbing.  He does eat well too.  At least I think he does...for example breakfast this morning was an egg yolk, quarter of a mini bagel, and a piece of papaya.  For lunch he usually has some chicken and veggies and of course fruit because he is addicted to the stuff.  Dinner last night was half a turkey sausage and stringbeans.  He also nurses 4 times a day if we are out and about and even more if we are home. 
I just put him doen for his nap and it took 20 minutes so not that bad.  I guess it will just take time and maybe for those molars to come in. 

[JoC]

Just an observation from that menu, he may need carbs at every mealtime with the protein and veg. My ds has a weetabix, yoghurt and banana for brec, chicken pie and mash, then peaches for lunch and meat and rice for tea with fruit and yoghurt, this seems to be more, he is very slim too, not as fat as I would like him to be!!
Maybe add more carbs and see how he goes if it is too much he will spit it out I'm sure.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Yasmin,

I would bet that those molars are at least part of your problem - my DS only just got his first two teeth if you can believe that, but I understand that the molars that most get around 12 mo. are terrible.   

I agree with JoC's advice to you about changing his diet just a touch, and also that it's time for you to try walk-in walk-out. PU/PD never worked for me either, it often doesn't with a spirited LO. I had great success with WI/WO though. How long did you try it for? Problem is though that if he's still sleeping in your room that would be sort of hard to do! I would recommend that you try to get him sleeping in his own room and then give it a go.

[jonsmommy]

Thanks for the suggestions.  He does actually get carbs in all the fruit and he also snacks on cheerios, bread, etc.  I guess I just forgot to mention that.  Last night he even had pasta and meatballs for dinner.

Well, we have decided to move him to his room and try WI/WO because last night was another terrible night.  Went down in 10 minutes at 6:30 (tried an earlier bedtime to see if it would help the early waking).  he then slept 3 hours and then a couple 2 hour stretches and then was up every hour until 4 at which point he stayed up until 6 and is still sleeping now.  I will get him up at 7.  I know it's time to move him because a few of those every hour wakings he would settle himself back down without me but I was ready to jump up so I am hoping if he is in his room which is attached to ours I can nix the monitor and just listen for real cries. 

Question:  How do you deal with the built up frustration and anger.  I feel like my patience is getting thinner and thinner with each sleep encounter.  I just swallow it up but it bubbles right back up the next time I have to get him down.  I hate feeling like this, especially towards my sweet baby boy. 

[Colin Macs Mom]

Oh sweetie, I sooo know what you mean about the anger and frustration. Take a lot of deep breaths and if you need to take a minute to pull yourself together then DO IT! Don't feel guilty at all, we all go through that and it's human! Keep in mind that you are doing all of this for the best interest of everyone, and believe me, when it pays off it will feel so good and you won't remember those feelings. You can come here and vent to us anytime!! 

[jonsmommy]

   Up every 2 hours again and has been awake since 4!!  I got so angry at 5:30 that I actually yelled at him and came downstairs and left him up there crying.  I then started a fight with Dh and sent him up there.  I feel like a terrible mother and wife and am so, so upset that I did that to my baby.  I never wanted to let him cry like that.  I am just in tears here and feeling very guilty.  Why, oh why won't he sleep past 4?!?!? 
On top of that he has to go to daycare today for the second day ever and last time he cried all day long.  Now I am worried he will cry all day again and be tired, cranky, and upset about all the crying this morning.   

[JoC]

DON'T feel bad. I too have yelled at my son, out of frustaration, he actually physically jumped as i charged into the room. Not nice, but when you are so tired. My ds started 4 days of nursery at 6 months and it took him 2 weeks to settle in, so if your ds is giong for less days it may take him longer than that. My friends ds was at nursery for 2 days and it took him 4 weeks or so to settle. He will, my ds loves it there, he actually cried when i collected him yesterday, he wanted to stay, how bad did i feel!!!

I really have no idea why he is still waking. I know doing wi/wo can take over 2 weeks. I have actually stopped it now and i am feeding him at 5-5.30 when he wakes. Not sure if this is the best thing, but he really needs to sleep. He sleeps really poorly at nursery, so has had only 11 hours sleep for 4 out of the last 5 days.

If you need to put him down and let him cry, do it, your sanity is the most important thing. It will not harm him.

Lots of huggs Jo

[jonsmommy]

Thank you so much for the kind words and support Jo!!  It means a lot to me.  He also jumped when I yelled and then started screamimg.  I tried to give him a hug and lay him back down but I was just too angray and had to put him down immediately and leave.  It's funny I started all this because he woke every 2 hours but I was actually used to it.  Now he STILL wakes up every 2 hours but also stays awake from 4-6...he never did that before.  He is operating on about 9-10 hours of sleep a day.  That can not be healthy. 

He only goes to daycare 1 day a week and has only ever stayed with his grandmothers or father besides me.  Last week was his first day and he was so upset that when I went to get him he had basically lost his voice and was just croaking out noises.  Broke my heart.  I hope it gets easier for him fast.

I am going to stick with this but let me tell you this is one of the hardest things I have dealt with.  I never expected sleep to be such an issue and cause of agony for us.  I keep having to fight the part of me that wonders why I am putting us all through this instead of just letting him sleep with us where we can comfort him and at least help him stay relaxed when he wakes. 

Okay, off to go wake him so we can get to "school".  Thank you once again for the support.  It really helps to know I am not alone when I am feeling so down.   

[Katet]

Have you had his ears checked... we went through a horror stretch with my ds#2 when he slept 3-4 hours & then woke (crying lots) every 40mins... when after 3 days I took him to the Dr he had a double ear infection... no fever, no other problems, just bad night sleep.
I know lots of people swear by Wi/Wo, but I don't actually remember it as a BW method & I think (my opinion) the only time you should leave the room is when your lo is calm & then walk back in if they cry, with Separation Anxiety at its peak around 12mo leaving a baby/toddler to cry can make the whole situation worse... I think for that reason Wi/Wo is probably something best reserved for when lo's are past the 18mo mark & as he is starting Daycare his sleep may be further messed up.

With the anger, the thing to think is "he is doing it because he is frustrated that you changed the rules... he isn't doing it to upset you"... for me the fact that "I" was actually the one to cause the problem & everytime "I" changed the rules to "make it easier for me" actually made it worse for him... so when I relised all that I had to find a method & say "if it takes me all night a week to get this right I have to find the energy to do it & if nothing else gets done so be it... & after our 6week bout of molars with ds#2, it has paid off... until the eye teeth at least I hope

[jonsmommy]

Thank You Kate!  I actually feel the same way with WO/WI and haven't actually started it.  Right now I have just been doing PD and trying to talk to him ie. "Everything is alright, it's time to sleep, go to sleep now".  Let me also explain that I am not angry at Jonathan I am angry at the situation and more frustrated than anything.  When I really think about it I think I am also angry at myself for putting him through this even though I know it's the best thing to do for all of us...I hope.   I haven't thought of getting his ears checked because there have been no other signs and he has never had any issues with them before but he has had a funny rash that has gotten worse so I was planning to make a dr. apt anyway and will have them check. 

The encouragement really helps and I will be "toughing it out"!  I think my anxiety over the number of hours he should be sleeping is getting the best of me and I just have to clear my mind and stay on goal.  I have seen improvemnt in that he does go to sleep relatively easy and on his own and although he has been waking every couple hours at least he settles very quickly and usually gives me a straight 3 or more hour stretch to start the night so I can at least watch some television with DH and unwind.  And he can't posiible wake up every morning at 4 and stay awake for 2 hours forever, right?!?

[JoC]

It WILL get better, often it gets really bad before things improve. I know what you mean about getting angry, you are angry with yourself. I too am reluctant to really give wi/wo a go cos it has been 3 days of screaming for 2 hours which is so bad to deal with, and you do feel really bad putting them through it . I think it eventually will work, but it is NOT the easy option, which is to put him in bed with you etc. Just try to remember that that is the easy option for YOU not him and that in the long run, getting him to sleep independently is the best thing for him. This is just about the hardest thing i have EVER done in my entire life.

I shall be thinking of you at 5am this morning!!
Jo

[Colin Macs Mom]

Yasmin, I'm so sorry that things are still tough    When reflux was at its peak with my DS I would have nights very similar. I yelled at Colin more times that I'd really like to admit.      Not proud of that, but I'm human and I was severly sleep deprived. I look at it like he will never remember that and surely doesn't even remember now. Not that that makes it ok, but it does offer me a little comfort.

Like katet said, I'm also wondering if he has something going on like an ear infection or some other problem. And if he's crying like that.... hmmmm.... might be work making a doc's appointment.

I know what you ladies mean about WI/WO being a little iffy. I have done it myself and had great success, but I don't think I did it the way that most do. I would stay until he was calm and then WO, and if he started crying again I would of course WI right away. I think that some people WO when they're starting to settle, but I didn't feel comfortable with that either.