BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: JennVanessa1083 on May 07, 2016, 15:17:08 pm
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Hello!
So I'm back again around DS' nap situation ::)
He's never been an amazing sleeper or napper but we finally started getting into a predictable routine last month. He started the 2-1 transition and so we were doing long am/short pm. OT started building up at BT causing NW so I tried short am/long pm for awhile which seemed to help. Anyways, we went on a trip where there was a 3 hour time difference and he started teething his lateral incisors which have been really affecting him. We just came back a week and a half ago and his old routine isn't working anymore. I don't know if it's OT from the trip (probably is) or the teething or he outgrew his routine. Hard to tell with so much going on (he's also learning to stand by himself).
I was advised to start a new thread here (I had one in NW board) to get fresh eyes and support on the 2-1. This is what we have been doing that doesn't work anymore.
WU 8 am
S 11:15-11:45 am
S 3:30-5 pm
BT 8:30
We also did this on some days which worked (when we had plans in the afternoon)
WU 8 am
S 11:30-1 pm (sometimes 11:45; depending on NW)
S 5-5:30 pm
BT 8:45 pm
We started getting only 1-2 NW and he was dropping his NF down to 1 before the trip. Now we are getting 3NW including a NW before 3-4 hours past BT. He fights bedtime and naps most of the time and also has NW where he doesn't drift off quickly after a feed. Either he is rolling around fussing or wide awake trying to explore and stand. Before the trip we were starting to get 7-8 hour stretches. I am working with the BF board to start night weaning but I also think it's a routine issue.
Any thoughts?
Thank you so much!
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Hi JV!
Remind me how old your LO is?
Sounds like he's UT at BT & naps on your current routine. Time for an A time increase?
Do you think he's ready for an A time increase, e.g. To gradually work towards closer to 4hrs A time in the morning therefore 1 nap around 12 &, if you get a good one-EBT; or if nap not long enough just a 10-15min CN for 2nd nap?
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Sorry! DS is 11 months. Tonight he had a NW not even 3 hrs after BT that was after stirring at after 1 hr. He just finally fell asleep after nursing him. I held out for an hour to try to resettle him but he was crying hard rolling around where I thought perhaps teething pain. He was miserable and it was awful!
Anyways today he did get a little more day sleep so that may have contributed to this mess.
This was his routine:
NW 10:33, 1:22-1:55 (tossing and turning fussing even after feed), 5:46-6:15ish (same thing wide awake finally nursed)
Total 10.25 hrs
WU 8:08
S 11:42-12:47 pm (A 3:34; fought sleep a little; woke up at 51 minutes)
S 4:31-5:53 pm (A 3:54; tried at 3.75 but fought sleep; woke up 27 crying for 10 minutes)
BT 9:17 pm (A 3:24; stirred at 1 hour; woke up crying hard at 12:11 didn't go to sleep until 1:15 am)
Do you think he is UT?
Thank you again!
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I think UT is a possibility, or OT from bad nights or still disrupted from teething! Unfortunately with babies it could be a number of things! Or UT/OT! UT for that first nap then OT by the 2nd and at BT!
I found this link which might help:
10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first! (2-1 switch)
So following that you could try a shorter AM nap e.g. 15 mins only and maybe bring 2nd nap forward to compensate for shorter first nap but also give more A time before bed?
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Hello!!! Where are you with independent sleep? I see you mentioned nursing before bed? I think at this age even the perfect routine will be totally totally disrupted if a LO can't settle themselves. You'll find nap transitions and NWs worse as they can't get through light cycles of sleep without you there to help them.
Just don't want you wasting a tonne of time trying to work out an ideal routine if first you need to be tackling independent sleep as you'll just keep going round in circles.
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Maybe you are right it's a UT/OT loop. ::)
i could try a 30 minute AM nap; I'm a little scared to do a 15 minute nap because of possible built up OT. Is that me just being paranoid?
I guess I'm wondering what A times are usually appropriate after a short am nap say 30 minutes?
Also after say a 1.5 pm nap for BT not to be OT?
I read the link so I think bc we have a propensity for shorter nights and pm nap refusals, the short am/longer pm is the way to go.
On the teething front I'm already medicating so it will just have to run its course.
PS Happy Mothers Day!!!!!!! ;)
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Hi Shiv! Happy Mothers Day!
We have definitely made progress on the IS front as don't nurse to sleep. However, it's been hard to get him to totally settle on his own bc he just rejects bedtime where I'm thinking ok he's UT but then wakes up soon after crying ???
I would love to have some support on gently getting him back to IS. I have been doing GW as he was quite clingy when we got home from our trip and what I believe also with teething pain.
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That's great you're not nursing. That is progress. So are you able to put him in his cot awake and just reassure or what is happening at the minute?
Have a lovely Mother's Day xx
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Well as of now I put him down drowsy so we are definitely getting there!
Last night he had two NW which is better but I tried to withhold feeding on the first and well he turned out to be actually hungry. His nursing has been fussy due to the teething. Anyways, he did an 11 hour night which was better but he still stirred a lot during the two hours after BT and he actually woke almost 3 hours after BT which I believe is OT right?
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We got a short night last night but naps were very wonky due to the day we had. Just in case I want to put up the EASY to maybe give a bit more info to our shorter nights.
WU 8:23
S 12:04-1:34 (A 3:41; fought a little; woke up at 25 crying had to hold him upright for him to fall asleep; woke up again at 1:01)
S 5:39-6:23 pm (A 4:05; car)
BT 9:39 pm (3:16)
NW 2-2:30 (stayed up trying to stand and crawl around even after feed), 5:24
Woke up at 8 am but dozed off after nursing
Today I plan on continuing what I have been doing but allowing the first nap to be shorter. A times may not be right but I'm trying to keep consistency:
First A 3:25
Nap 1 30 minutes
Second A 3.5-3.75
Nap 2 1.5
Last A 3.25-3.5
BT
Who knows if this will help. ???
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Hi Ginger!!
Thank you for checking in and for the suggestions. :D
He was responding to GW but today was a nightmare getting him down for his first nap; he fought it for 30 minutes then just cried. He did not want to lay down just kept sitting up. So I had to hold him upright and he fell asleep. I think the teeth are just hurting no matter what I throw at him medicine wise. NF still at 2; I'm in the process of talking to the mods at the BF board to night wean; however at this point it's looking like it's actually hunger which means I may need to somehow up his caloric intake. However, he's starting to stay up even after a feed trying to stand! So in lost!
I think right now it's a perfect storm of teething, the 2-1, and him being obsessed with learning how to stand on his own :o
Edit: we have 2-3 NW and/or EW. As much as I want the short am/long pm. I might have to try the other way around without him fighting the pm. I find after a 1.5 am; he responds to a 4 hour A time before the pm for a 45 minute nap.
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Hi Jennifer,
Hugs again and hang in there!
*** Just saw your post and glad that you're getting support with dropping NFs.
He just finally fell asleep after nursing him. I held out for an hour to try to resettle him but he was crying hard rolling around where I thought perhaps teething pain. He was miserable and it was awful!
Oh no! so sorry Jennifer. This must have been hard for you! I think with what I gather from here, we really should sort out nursing to comfort/to sleep at night.
I guess I'm wondering what A times are usually appropriate after a short am nap say 30 minutes?Also after say a 1.5 pm nap for BT not to be OT?I read the link so I think bc we have a propensity for shorter nights and pm nap refusals, the short am/longer pm is the way to go.
Whatever you decide, you'll have to stick with it... as you already know!
2-1 is so hard... and it was the longest transition for us, so hang in there. It does get better... and I'm the one who never thought it would. =P
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Hi Ginger again!
Yea this 2-1 is really tricky. Today he ended up only sleeping for 37 minutes after a 3.75A; seems UT but at this point who knows. I will see what happens in the afternoon. I'm just winging it at this point with his EASY.
He didn't have OT wakings after BT last night after a shorter afternoon nap (45 minutes); he did 1.5 in the am after a 3:40 A but that was after a rougher night.
I am hoping this passes soon!
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I think I need someone to suggest what's a typical routine for an 11 month old bc clearly what was working two weeks ago isn't working anymore.
This is what we are currently doing:
WU 8 am
S 11:30-noonish
S 3:45-5ish pm (usually wakes up between 27 minutes-36 minutes)
BT 8:30-9 pm (depending on nap 2)
I know I need to work on IS but its hard to do that when I don't even have a reference point to start with. So I'm wondering what other people were doing at this age.
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Obviously schedules differ and always depend on the baby, but the GENERAL routine for 11-12 mo. in terms of number/time is...
Naps: 1-2
Total nap time: 2-3 hrs (messes up during 2-1)
Awake time: 3-4 hrs
Total night time: 11-12 (also messes up during 2-1)
Here is what I gathered from your posts and our recommendations. There certainly is a lot going on, but we may be able to rule out certain things. Again, we're very happy to support you, but don't want you to stress over things out of your control and with the inevitable daily nuances. You really are doing the best that you can!
Independent Sleep/Sleep training
-Put down wide awake, no rocking to naps or nursing to sleep
-Use GW or Wi/wo, try one method for 5+ days
Weaning NF (Re: Hand Holding for Night Weaning?)
-try 1 breast for 2 NF OR decrease time on breast incrementally
-get to 1 NF
-get to 0 NF
-snacks + bf, bm in cup
Naps/EASY
-wake same time +/- 15 mins every morning
-keep same A time in the morning or start moving to 4 A in 15 min increments
-use short am/long pm strategy or vice versa
-aim to get at one mid-day nap with either short am or pm nap
-resettle using same method as sleep training
Night Wakes
-For physical development, ride it out, keep WU time the same
-Minimal/no contact if lo is happy
-use same method as sleep training
Teething (please check with your pediatrician for dosing and duration... ie. for a week, 2 weeks, etc..)
-give ibuprofen 30 min before bed
-give ibuprofen or tylenol 30 min before naps (one that requires most resettling)
-once teeth cut, possibly do full NF weaning
If you can achieve IS, you can eventually rule out NWs, NFs, discomfort, OT, etc.... As for routine, since you don't know how long his naps will be, you can keep the first nap time (with the same WU time every day), and adjust from there, keeping the same A's for at least 5 days.
The 2-1 thread is a great place for support with other moms in the same boat... hopefully more will join you there. Depends on your DS, but the 2-1 is one of the longest, so it might not pass as soon as you'd like, but it will pass! I think once DS falls asleep wo nursing and you reduce the NFs, he'll get better uninterrupted sleep at night which can definitely help.
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Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #27
Start on page 8 (newest to oldest order) or even further back, and you'll see how some of us coped with the 2-1.
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Wow thank you so much!
I love the the bullet points and the plan. I can definitely work on this for the next week or two.
So quick question: if I were to go the long am nap route, I gradually push it out until I fade out the pm CN right? At what point do you stop pushing out the am?
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For me it was when DS reached appropriate A for his age and desired nap time.
Ex:
14mo
Wu 6:00
Nap 12:00
Bt 7:00
18mo
Wu 6:00/6:30
Nap 12:30
Bt 7:30/8:00
24 mo (now)
Wu 6:00/6:30
Nap 1:00
Bt 8:00/8:30
And we're in really early stages of 1-0 naps! Eek!
Totally different from some of the other 23/24 mo toddlers here. Some are transitioning 2-1 now!
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Wow this is interesting...if you don't mind me asking what was your EASY at 11 months?
Is 2 hours total day sleep low for his age? I'm finding it hard to fit everything in to at most get a 13 hour day ???
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It was all over the place and I don't quite remember if it was 11 mo. Hence why I sent you to read previous posts for 2-1. Something like
wu 5:30/6:00, cn 15 min cn around 9:15, nap Around 12:30, bt around 6:30. Then it went to nap at 11:00/11:30, cn around 4 or 5. BUT, ds was totally sleeping independently, also why we suggest you focus on that.
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Ok thank you for that! I did read the thread and it was helpful :)
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There are also sample routines here:
chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months
Whatever you do, I think you really need to choose a schedule (short am/ long pm or vice versa) and stick with it for at least 5 days to see if it works. It looks like there is still chopping and changing.
Also stick with A times & capped nap lengths for at least a couple of days before increasing A times by 10-15mins or capping nap further by 10-15mins.
He is close to a year so you could try a set nap approach for a week to take off pressure of thinking about routine & give you headspace to focus on night weaning and independant sleep.
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Thanks SM!
At this point set naps sound appealing but he never took to it too well before. Observing him lately and logging makes me feel like he's not tired enough for naps then ends up OT at the end of the day. I'm currently doing long am short pm since nights look better this way. So this is where I'm starting:
WU 8 am
S 11:30-1 pm (hopefully)
S 5-5:45 pm
BT 8:45 pm
I may need to increase the first A but I'll see in a couple of days.
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Jenn did you not find before that long am led to afternoon nap resistance?
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Yes but I'm finding he goes down better with around a 4 hr A after a longer am nap. I tried the short am/long pm route and get short pm naps then lots of OT by bedtime. :-\ I don't know...I figure I'll try this and hope that it sticks this time around I'm getting tons of resistance for the am nap.
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I see!!!
I do think you need to just stick at it for a run of days. I would make sure as well to maintain a consistent wake up time even if he's had a bad night. M
I see you have BFing Thread for weaning night feeds. Have you started this yet? I weaned night feeds by not feeding until 1am and you have to keep going until they are asleep even if it hits 1am. First two nights were awful but then she got the idea. I then moved the time by an hour every few days until we were done. My lovely friend had a LO who didn't respond to that and in the end her DH took over at nights. First night she cried on and off for hours but daddy was there reassuring etc. Second night again several hours of protesting but third night only a bit of protesting then just resettle no issues. Sometimes it needs to not be mummy as they expect milk. My friend had to promise her DH she wouldn't interfere as it would mean all the crying was for nothing. She said she cried in her room but they needed to sort the NFs out.
Also bear in mind to keep going toward IS. Honestly at this age props cause huge issues and even a perfect routine will be rubbish if a baby can't self settle. My concern is you will end up thinking this is a routine issue when actually its an IS issue and routines are much easier to work out when you have a baby who can get themselves to sleep.
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Whew ok I'm prepared for some tears. He actually doesn't feed until around 1-2 am now then wakes up again 3-4 hours later for another feed then awake again 2 hours later for the day. So I can definitely start pushing the first night feed in hopes of consolidating the first and second NF then eliminating the Second NF.
I am also continuing the process of IS which has been interesting to say the least. Funny things is he used to be a independent sleeper until his top two teeth were coming in. From then on it's been one thing after another ::)
Today I got a long am nap at 3.5 (i did have to resettle) so we will see how the next few days go)
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Quick question: the last few days DS has been waking up wired wanted to crawl around and stand after only a 10 hour night. Is this generally UT or OT?
I have been doing this for the last 4 days:
WU
A 3.5
Nap 1 (long am; usually broken at different times but ends up between 1:15-1:30 depending on the night sleep)
A 4 hrs
Nap 2: 36-45 minutes
A 3.25
BT
I'm thinking of extending the first A then shortening the last one to 3.
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I need hand holding with doing the gradual withdrawal.
I finally put him down awake and he isn't going to sleep!! I put him down for 3.5 and it's not about 4 hours A. He is just starting to cry. Before it was playing around, babbling.
I don't know if I'm doing this right. I have my back turned to him. When and how do I comfort? Do I pick up?
Update: it was a disaster! He was screaming and crying plus the teething stuff definitely wore off which made matters worse. I tried comforting him in the crib but he was grabbing me and trying to pull himself up into my arms so I would lay him back down which he definitely didn't like. I couldn't take it anymore as this was 45 minutes of this so I picked him up and tried to APOP but he was crying so hard that it took another 10 minutes to lull him to sleep. I felt terrible and broke don as I never let him cry like this before. I let him fuss around and he used to sometimes fuss then put himself to sleep. I don't know why he has forgotten. Is there another way? Did I do something wrong? Maybe I should wait until his teeth finally come through?
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I'm sorry it was so hard yesterday, how has today been?
GW should be a really gentle approach, I'm sorry yesterday was so upsetting for you and your DS
Could you describe how you're doing GW from start of wind down onwards? I sleep trained my DS with GW and it worked really well but we took tiny steps at a time.
In the very first stages I would hold him until almost asleep, put in the cot and hold him in cot until asleep.
After a couple of days I put him in cot a little sooner and stopped holding when he was almost but not quite asleep.
Then gradually with putting him in cot a little sooner and letting go a little earlier, got to put him in cot relaxed but awake and just having my hand next to him.
Then standing next to cot
Standing behind cot
Standing at door
Standing outside door
As you can guess it was a slow process and took a few weeks to take all those steps...but was really effective for us and he has self settled for naps and nights ever since.
Have you read the GW part of this link?
Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
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I think I made too big a leap from putting him down almost asleep to wide awake. I need to do teeny tiny stepsfoe this to work. I don't mind spending time on it.
I basically wind down by changing diaper, giving teething tablets, reading a story, then humming the same lullaby, white noise, walk around with him. It used to be walk around until I saw he was drowsy then put him down awake. He would roll over then knock out, sometimes he would crawl around a little bit then lay down.
I have been walking until fully asleep then putting down.
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Ok so tiny steps as you say... I'd go back to walking with him until drowsy then put him down and soothe in cot until he's asleep, if you need to. You can then start stopping cot soothing earlier and letting him do last bit himself.
Hope that works better xxx
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Yes I can definitely start doing this.
Last night we made huge progress. He did a nice 7 hour stretch woke to feed then back down.
I still feel he went down a little OT so tweaking is still needed.
Yesterday we did:
WU 7:30
S 11:15-11:45 (I realized too much A; he wouldn't go back down)
S 3:15-4:40 (about 3.5)
BT 8:15ish pm (he did almost 3.75)
He was twitchy in the beginning of the night and did a touch shorter than an 11 hour night. So I tried a 3.5 A in the am and he woke up exhausted after 30 minutes and knocked out after nursing. Soooo looks like I may need to do a 3.25 first A or should I just stick it out for two more days to see if it was a fluke from yesterday.
I'm thinking maybe:
WU 7:30
S 10:45-11:15
S 2:45-4:15
BT 7:45 pm
My only concern is him not doing a 12 hour night. He doesn't really do it unless he's catching up.
Any tips?
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I'd do the same thing for 5 days and wouldn't tweak A times at all.
An 11 hour night in the 2-1 is totally fine. Neither of mine ever ever did a 12 hour night. One did 11 and one did 11.5.
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My DS is the same. Right now he does more of an 11 hr night.
So I'm sticking to this then:
WU 7:30
S 11-11:30 am
S 3:15-4:45 pm
BT 8:15 p.m
Does that look ok? Last night he was fighting bedtime and did an almost 3.75 A; however, he was OT bc he was very twitchy but then had a nice long stretch of 7 hours before even waking up so I know I'm getting close!
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That looks good xx
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Thank you!
Today is a mess. Seems either teething has intensified or something else is up. Calling the doctor tomorrow. He's been hysterical crying in pain and strangely tired as well as extra cuddly which is strange bc he's a ball of happy energy usually.
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I have a general question:
Do teething babies have inconsistent A times?
Today I tried the am nap for 3:40 A time ( meant to do 3.5 but we had a photo shoot that ran long). He's still sleeping! I thought about waking him to preserve the EASY but between yesterday and today he's been extra tired. I'm thinking perhaps it's signs he may cut finally? They are right there at the surface ready to break any second taunting me lol
I'm thinking I may have to pull back A times closer to 3.25 for the morning to get more of a UT nap rather than OT before his pm or should I have woken him anyways and aimed for a shorter second A? Say 3.25 hours?
This is really tricky!
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I tended to not change A times due to teeth. I don't remember it being an issue but our routine was fairly set at this age.
I'm not sure about aiming for UT nap. If he'll settle without needing more assistance from you then am sure it's fine. Mine would never sleep unless properly tired.
I think lovely and don't mean to sound like a broken record but I'd just pick what you think will work, what your gut is telling you and start your five consistent days from tomorrow. It takes time for these things to take so at this age I wouldn't judge day to day at all. So much can affect them including activities etc
Sorry screaming 6 week old clearly sensed I was heading for the shower!!!
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Lol I hope you got your shower in!
Ok thank you for the reassurance to just push through. I needed the broken "record." My DS is the same. He will fight tooth and nail if he isn't too tired or if he's OT. ::)
The only issue in having is stretching my day to s 13 hour day bc DS is doing 11 hour nights and wakes up ready to go.
This is what I have been aiming for:
WU 7:30
S 11-11:30 (but maybe he will sleep until 11:45 but hasn't yet)
S 3-4:30 (hopefully one day 5 pm)
BT 8 pm
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I have another question: does a 1.5 NW where DS is babbling and tumbling around while trying to stand alone common? Is it teething? Is it UT? He was fine in the beginning of the night then woke up screaming 3 hours after BT so we have him Motrin. Then he wakes up 3 hours later but puts himself back to sleep then wakes up 45 minutes later wired!!!
I didn't do anything different in terms of A times except the am nap he slept a little longer and pm nap was cut short due to noise. But all in all a total of 2 hours day sleep. Was the longer am nap the cause?
I haven't had a long NW in awhile so seems strange that it came seemingly out of nowhere. I don't want a repeat tonight bc I'm exhausted and gradually weaning NF so long NW are definitely not going to help this process. :'(
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Just throwing it out there that often a LO won't be tired enough to fall asleep at bedtime if they've had a later nap. I remember having to make sure my second nap ended early enough to ensure LO was properly tired for bedtime and often having to make sure the nap wasn't too long even if they had no morning nap because too much day sleep would cause us issues. That 4:30/5 pm ending would have meant disaster for us trying for an 8pm bedtime, either in resisting going to sleep or NWs later from UT. Then they'd be OT by morning because they didn't sleep and it would start a vicious cycle of short OT morning naps, longer afternoon to make up for it, resist bedtime or NWs from UT and so forth.
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Hmmmmm that is a good point. I have read articles indicating late afternoon naps mess with bedtime. The problem is that if I do a long am I get tons of pm nap resistance then end up with a OT short pm nap then OT to bed. I am wondering how to construct a routine that would give me 11-12 hour nights without long wakings and EMW. I am stil getting strange shorter nights where he will have a 10 hour night and wake up. I nurse him then he dozed off for 30-60 minutes until WU. ??? It really is a delicate balance.
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I'm thinking DS is very OT. NW are increasing. This is day 4 of doing the short am/ long pm routine of:
WU 7:30
S 11-11:30
S 3 pm- 4:30 pm (wakes up about 1:15/1:20 tired and cranky)
BT 8-8:30 pm
I have been reading different posts on people who do short am/ long pm and this is what they generally do and it seems my A times after a short nap maybe too long?
What if I did something like:
WU 7:30 am
S 11-11:30 (he wakes up on his own fussy so should I make this nap earlier?)
S 2:30-4 pm (4:30 would be a dream come true)
BT 7:30 pm
Has anyone done this sort of routine where it worked out?
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I actually did this type of a routine with DD around the same age. I think I had a morning nap nearer to 10am if I am recalling correcty and kept it short...30-45 minutes, then an afternoon nap around 1-3 or 2-4 (can't remember!!). I know as the morning shortened and phased out, then the afternoon nap moved earlier and earlier. Then we alternated 2 nap and 1 nap days as she headed into not needing 2 naps all the time. 1 nap days, she'd nap around 11:30/12pm and then I'd determine bedtime based on when she woke up. That was always a bit tricky. When she refused naps in the morning but I knew I needed her to take one because she was OT or whatever, I'd just drive somewhere and let her take a short 15-20 minute nap in the car for the morning until she settled totally onto one afternoon nap each day. She was the most difficult of my LOs with sleep and she needed everything to be JUST SO. Tweak here, tweak there and it was always like that until she grew out of naps entirely.
Here are some old sample routines that show some of the different ways people have gone about it:
chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months
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UGH sounds like my DS...it seems like he always needs tweaking; he also appears to be LSN which is where its confusing in terms of figuring out naps versus night sleep. He currently averages 12.5-13 hours of sleep; or maybe that's average.
I know he won't go down before 3 hours unless he is SUPER tired. Today I did 3.25 and got a 32 minute nap. He woke up fine so I may stick to that and see how it plays out. I did a 3.5 A for the afternoon nap and he did 1:20 which I thought indicates UT, but then was still very groggy and what seemed like trying to go to sleep but couldn't. So not sure if it means he needs a smidge less in A or a smidge more in A ??? and there lies my problem. So any thoughts or BTDT insight would be awesome at this point.
Also is 3.5 A after a 1.5 nap sufficient for his age or will this cause UT NW? He is currently 11.5 months old.
Thank you!
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Hi Jenn! Great advice here and glad someone hopped onto the 2-1 to hold hands along this tiring phase!
IME our pm A was always at least 30 min longer than morning AM until he got older.
You said it was day 4 of the 11, 3 nap... awesome job for hanging on!!! If you can, hold off for one more day!
So sorry to hear about NWs getting worse... what are they like now?
After day 5, the new EAsy sounds good, but try keeping bedtime the same so that the only thing you're changing essentially is the second nap time. This helps with ruling out things, kwim? Also, I wouldn't move the first Nap time and I would try 2:45 first, for 3 days, then reassess and consider 2:30 for another 3. Keeping bedtime the same, +/- 15 mins (15 mins doesn't usually upset routine, but helps to get to target times).
WU 7:30 am
S 11-11:30 (he wakes up on his own fussy so should I make this nap earlier?)
S 2:30-4 pm (4:30 would be a dream come true)
BT 7:30 pm
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Hi Ginger!!
Thanks for the response and the encouragement. Last night was much better. He slept from 8-3:30 am stirring at 1.5 hours after bedtime and 5 hours after BT but never full woke up. Night weanjng is going well too. I have been pushing back for an hour every couple of days. Last night he went about 7.5 hours without a feed! So I'll be continuing that for the next week with the hopes of consolidating both feeds at the early morning feed them pushing that back until WU.
I'm sorry maybe I'm slow. I didn't fully understand what you meant by leaving the am nap but trying 2.45 then 2.5A? Did you mean the A time before the second nap? Or did you mean before the am nap? My DS will lie down in the morning at like 3 hrs A is that a tired sign? I'm working on gradually getting him back in the crib but today he wasn't having it at 3.25. Maybe I missed his window when he was lying down in the living room right before 3A? I had to wake him at 45 minutes so he woke up groggy.
Did you also mean your LOs A time before pm nap was 30 minutes longer than the first one. For example:
WU
3A
Nap 1
3.5
Nap 2
Also how do I keep bedtime the same with altering A times. Seems like it's always changing. He seems to do best with a 8 pm bedtime. He did an 11.5 night last night.
Yesterday went like this:
NW 12:40, 3:24 (wide awake for a little even after I fed), 6:02 wide awake fussy and hot; fed)
Total ~10 hrs
WU 7:48 am
S 11:02- 11:36 pm (A 3:14; didn't fight; rubbing eyes all morning)
S 3:07- 4:29 pm (A 3:31; restless the entire time; could be OT from yesterday or too much A)
BT 8:09 pm (A 3:40; twitchy at first stirred at 1.5)
Then last nights NW: 3:30 (wide awake after feed), 6:20 (fed both times) up at 7:30 am
Thank you again!
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Hi!
This question is for Scottishmummy who used gradual withdrawal as a sleep training method or anyone who has with sucess.
I might be doing this wrong but I tried to put DS down drowsy but it turned into a 30 minute meltdown so I caved smh. Wondering if maybe I should have waited until he was just about to be asleep? I was finally able to get him to nap in his crib and now he's even more sensitive when I put him down asleep. Anyways, He was drowsy but fussy so maybe not sleepy. I'm wondering if he was already OT since it was almost 3.5 after a 45 minute nap (I woke him) and he was crying and trying to get comfy in my arms and couldn't. I put him down since he could not get comfy and that started a crazy struggle. I'm going to have to go slower maybe? What do I do if he starts crying?
Maybe I already started at a disadvantage. He was almost falling asleep twice but fought it and cried, rolled, sat up, stood up. It was a mess. I finally gave in after a 4 hour A. Maybe my A time is off after the am nap.
This is what we did today thus far:
WU 7:30
S 10:40-11:25 (I woke him)
S 3:25- (aimed for 3 pm but maybe I should have aimed for 2:30?)
I feel so bad hearing him cry and looking scared. Please help!
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Jennifer,
i had responded to your questions but I don't see my post! ?!?
I meant pm nap time at 2:45pm, then bring it earlier to 2:30pm if needed after a few days.
Ok, sorry to say but once you give in, it's like starting all over and is actually harder on the baby. I know you're doing your best though! Even though it's messy, stick with it...Without being concerned about the A times. So even if it takes til 5A, be there for him until he falls asleep but don't use the prop you're trying to stop. Remember that some of us has already said that you kind of have to let the nap times be what they are until he's 100% independently sleeping to know what the actual deal is.
Is your method currently holding? Were there any suggestions about patting? What I had to do when DS got up was put him back down. Again and again. A version of pu/pd. He cried but I never left his side until he stayed down. And I didn't ever leave before he fell asleep until he would go down without a fight. I think I even bent down and held him (like cradle him gently) in his crib to help him or pat his back while he was standing, then put him down. I've also given in during that time and picked him up when he was hysterical, but eventually I had to bite the bullet and stop picking him up or he'd just keep seeking it. I know that's really tough but it might be necessary in your situation. After that, I used the patting, occasional holding, wi/wo, whatever worked for the blip in IS, but it was much easier to revert to IS.
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Thanks Ginger for the clarity about the pm nap. I'm going to do 3 A hour today before the pm nap and hope for a long nap. Last night again was improvement but he woke up twice and both times he was ready to play. He did go back down but I'm wondering if that is a bit of UT going on or OT. I personally think OT from yesterday's afternoon debacle.
As for using GW, I'm back to square one as you said but I'll be going about it at a much slower pace since I realized he has some SA going on. I didn't realize it can peak around this age. Thank you for the tips, I honestly feel if I can get him within the right sleep window it is so much easier since he use to be fine in the crib and SS.
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Sounds good, Jennifer! Definitely do what you feel is best. And you know you have us here with the tools when needed. =)
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Hi
Just saw your question above... It's a while since I did GW with DS but if he's crying a lot I would do what you need to to soothe him but still try to get him to a point of calm and falling asleep, then let him do last bit himself. Are you soothing in cot once you put him down? You need to do that at first with GW.
As you say it might also be because of A times. Hope you had a better time of it today
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I was wondering can I just APOP the first short am nap? Then work on GW for the long nap when I know he's good and tired?
If he's hysterical even with GW I don't pick him up? I'm not sure how this is different than say just PD? I picked him up after an hour of hysterics. He was sweaty and crying so hard, I got upset myself. Is this the gentlest method? Maybe I just don't have it in me to do this.
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Sorry, you misunderstood me, I would pick him up if he is upset, as soon as he gets properly upset (not just mantra cry) , I wouldn't leave him to get hysterical- not good for him or you....just put him down again when he's calm and before he falls asleep so he can do last bit of falling asleep by himself.
ETA- Sorry just realised I contradicted ginger! I had to pick my DS to comfort and calm him but every baby is different, as she says, for some it would prolong things and make it harder.
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Oh hugs Jennifer! I bet you shed some tears! And btw, i *know* how confusing and overwhelming all this can be. So sorry that this attempt didn't work after trying to follow what I described. So sorry!
No worries Scottishmum! We all have different temperament babies and experiences... We're trying to figure out what will work for Jenn'a bub.
An hour of crying hysterically is certainly not good.
I did pick up when it got bad, but perhaps after many attempts DS got used to it? It was gradual in that sense that we kept working on it and did less and less until he got it. But for us, I did try at times to console him in the crib versus picking him up. I think Scottishmum is right on with you LO, poor thing, who like you said is perhaps going through SA at the moment and needs picked up for now. Then try to lay down again. Like she described...
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I was wondering can I just APOP the first short am nap? Then work on GW for the long nap when I know he's good and tired?
In an ideal world you'd sleep train for both naps for consistency...but it sounds like it's really stressful for you both.,.and the short nap will be the one that goes eventually, so you could try focussing your efforts on 2nd nap if that would be easier.
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It's definitely better to AP as a plan than to start and give in so if you know the first nap is hard and you end up giving in and lifting him then just AP from the outset x
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Thanks ladies for the encouragement and the helpful suggestions. I think I am going to gear towards the second nap and APOP the first only because it's a UT nap and he just wants to play until lo and behold he's OT.
Yes I like the suggestion of putting him down sleepy then gradually love towards awake. I tried comforting in the crib by stroking his hair, patting, and even holding him in the crib which killed my back. He just wouldn't have any of it. The look in his face broke me, he looked scared. I think it's definitely SA bc he never used to be like this. I sleep trained him at 4 months using shh pat but obviously that failed today as well. Anyways, I will give the suggestions a try tomorrow.
Today is a wing it day in terms of naps. I ended up taking DS out on an impromptu picnic after music class since I thought we could both use a change of scenery ;D
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Hi ladies, I have a question:how do I know if the NW are UT relates even if they are around 5 hours or so after BT or early morning as opposed to maybe residual OT? Or maybe even teething?
DS has woken up in the middle of the night rolling around fussy and trying to what appears to be standing on his own? Is this just developmental or maybe in need of more A?
We have been doing the following:
WU 7:30
S 11- 11:30/11:45 am
S 2:45/3 pm-4:30 pm
BT 8 pm
Although the short am and long pm is definitely making Nights so much better!
Also do you do GW when teething? Again today he would not go down for an hour! He kept biting and playing. I couldn't give him any more meds either. I had to put him to sleep then down. And supposed to wait? Today I tried to put down drowsy and he ran around the crib practicing standing and attempting to walk. Finally at around 4:15A he started crying. I tried to pick him up but he was wayyy too OT. Maybe I'm just chasing my tail bc he's uncomfortable with his teeth?
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Night wakings are a mystery to me to be honest! I can only guess ours based on how much sleep she's had and what's gone on in day. Sounds like your DS has got developmental stuff going on though.
If he's playing around in cot and not settling for 2nd nap, would you consider cutting first nap any shorter and see if that helps?
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Lol yes a mystery indeed! I have been just looking at the day and trying to piece together what may have caused a strange NW as well. I definitely think developmental stuff bc he has always been the type to practice anything he is learning at night and during the day. He's a persistent little guy. The teething seems to bother him more as he now only wants to be upright or propped up as he sleeps. I might just have to ride the wave.
I realized I can't let him sleep for more than 30 minutes in the am or I get fights for the pm or fighting at bedtime.
We will see if capping at 30 for the am nap helps.
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Hi! I'm wondering if DS keeps sleeping in the am at 3.5 A do I keep waking him even if he's tired or do I consider trying to put him down earlier say 3.25 A. I woke him at 45 minutes in the am but wondering if it's better to have him wake himself with an shorterA?
If I wake him after 45 minutes, will a A time of 3.25 before the pm still be fine or do I adjust? I rather not lol
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I thought he needed no more than 30 mins in the am in order to go down easily for the pm nap?
I would try to keep as close to same start time and nap length as possible, if it's been working for him.
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Yea you're right. Usually he wakes himself at 30/35 minutes but he slept longer. I'll just wake him up since it wasn't bad doing it today.
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I'm noticing that DS isn't quite doing an 11 hour night. He does between 10-10.75 hour nights not including NW. He had 3 last night but I only fed him once. He wakes up happy but not sure if that's an indicator of anything since generally he's such an energetic happy baby. He does rub his eyes ALOT but again not sure if that's reliable?
I don't know how to stretch out his day to 13 hours or maybe the routine is off and that's why he's having shortened nights? A handful of times I get 11.5 hour nights if his day was 12.5 but that was bc his second A ended up slightly longer than usual. I can't seem to get a consistent wake up time because of this.
I know this is the 100th time I'm writing this EASY but I figure it would be easier to have it right here:
WU 7:30
S 11-11:30/45 (although I'm going to try out just 30 minutes)
S 3.25 A later (2:45-4:15)
BT 3.5 A later
Any suggestions? Maybe stretching out the second A to see if I get a slightly longer nap? Since his pm is usually between 1:15-1:25.
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Well I stretched out the second A to 3.5 and got a 1hr nap where he woke up fussy but cried when I tried to resettle. ??? What does that mean?!
Now I have to do a 7:30 BT when it's still light. Not looking forward to this.
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OT, I think.
I would stick with the routine you had (3.25 for 2nd A) a 1.5hr nap is good for 2nd nap. I wouldn't worry too much about getting a "textbook" or "ideal" length of night. Every baby is different and some do just fine on less than 11hrs if they get their naps rights& his daytime routine looks good now with the EASY you posted.
Good luck for BT and your night tonight xxx
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Yea I think you're right it's OT bc I notice this has happened before with that length
He has also been resisting bedtime to the point where he falls asleep closer to 3.75 when I'm aiming for 3.5 even after a 1 hour nap today. Then he wakes up 2-3 hours after BT. Does that sound like OT or UT? Ughhhhhh this transition is killing me slowly.
I could stick with the current EASY but then if I'm getting less than 11 hour nights not including NW then won't it make his WU earlier and earlier?
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If that happens, then I would suggest set naps to try to keep first nap the same, compensate for different Wu times & stay on routine.
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Got you. Does that eventually discourage differing wake up times?
Funny thing is, he ended up having a 12 hour night. Of course there were teething and OT related NW in the beginning of the night but no short night lol this kid surely keeps me on my toes.
In general I'm not supposed to move the pm nap any later but cut down the am nap little by little if he refuses the pm nap correct. As I cut down the am nap do I move the pm nap up? Say it gets cut to 20 minutes, do I do a 2.75 A before the pm and so forth?
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Got you. Does that eventually discourage differing wake up times?
For some (not for my DS though!) but it gives you and him a very predictable day and at least a more consistent wake up "window"
Funny thing is, he ended up having a 12 hour night. Of course there were teething and OT related NW in the beginning of the night but no short night lol this kid surely keeps me on my toes.
In general I'm not supposed to move the pm nap any later but cut down the am nap little by little if he refuses the pm nap correct.
Yes, that sounds right.
As I cut down the am nap do I move the pm nap up? Say it gets cut to 20 minutes, do I do a 2.75 A before the pm and so forth?
It depends, some LOs need an earlier nap as first nap is cut, some keep 2nd nap at same time. I'd watch him for tired signs and nap length and see what you think.
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Thank you!
I guess I'll ask more specifics when it comes to that time. I'm confused on to move it to noonish when the pm is currently at 2:30osh. But I don't have to worry about that.
I had two long wakings where he was happy but then a first ENW 2.5 hrs after bed. Not sure if that's OT or UT. In doing with UT from nap lengths then maybe too much A before bed.
Can I ask what was your routine? Specifically the last A if the pm nap is 1.5-1.75 long?
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It was over 2yrs ago so my memory is a bit hazy but I *think* at 11mo DS was doing something like this:
Wu:6am
Nap 1: 9.30 for 15-20 mins (capped)
Nap 2: 13.00 for 1.5-2hrs (woken by 3pm if not awake already)
BT:6.30- 7pm depending on wu time
The first nap eventually became 10-15 mins then he stopped going to sleep for it (at around 18mo) so I just kept the second nap at 1pm and he was ok with that. Your day starts later than ours did though...maybe the 2nd nap will stay around early afternoon for you because of that.
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That's what I was thinking...bc of the 7:30 start.
So I'm wondering if a 3.5 A is enough after a 3.5-2 hour pm nap. I notice you did 4 hours. Last night he had one long waking where he was just playful then this morning he had another one. He would get really agitated when I attempted to lay him back down. Eventually he went to sleep. But the curve ball is that he woke up 2.5 hours after BT but resettled quickly.
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those night wakings do sound UT...or developmental. You could try gradually increasing the last A time and see if that helps.
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Thank you! I increased to 3.75 and it helped a little. I got one long NW around 2:30 am. I'll try a few more times and see if it improves
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So I accidentally did a 4Hr A before bed. He slept a nice 6.5 stretch before waking up (which is longer than the 5.5 stretch I was getting with 3.75A before bed) but then woke up 3 hrs later wired!!!! Standing but throwing himself around trying to get comfy. Finally I nursed him thinking he would go down and that didn't help! Took an hour for him to go back to sleep ???
This was yesterday:
WU 7:30 am
S 11-11:40 am (3.5)
S 2:55-4:25 pm (3.25)
BT 8:30 pm (4hr)
Maybe too soon for a jump? It sounds a little UT but that would be really strange given the long A before bed so maybe OT? Or just development? He did take two first steps yesterday. I'm hoping this isn't our "new" thing in the sleep department ::)
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As ever, hard to say! Could be "tired but wired" or could be developmental.
I'd pull back to 3.75 and stick with that for a few more days before increasing again. It feels like 4hrs gave you a longer stretch of sleep but he maybe wasn't quite ready for it....or he's going through a developmental leap, sounds like that's happening too.
There's always something, isn't there?!
Xxx
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Haha yes always something with these babes! I let him sleep in bc we are about to have a whole day out and about so our EASY will be off. I will for sure stick to the 3.75 or shorter (depending on naps today). On a positive note overall naps and night sleep are getting better so I'm thankful for the insight!
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Great news :D hope you have a nice day out
Xxx
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So an interesting thing happened last night.
DS had one very brief NW which I fed!!!! He hasn't slept this well in weeks!
So I'm wondering if maybe day sleep needs to cut down or if I should wait it out since his teeth are FINALLY cutting which may be why he did a better night. He slept 10.5 hours.
This was yesterday's EASY:
WU 8:20 am
S 12:10-12:50 pm (A 3:50; car ride after church)
S 4:08-5:08 pm (A 3:18; after cake smash shoot; woke up and didn't resettle but was cranky so I know he could have slept longer)
BT 8:58 pm (A 3:50; wouldn't settle sooner due to heat)
We are working on cooling down the room 30 minutes prior to sleep since he has a really hard time settling when he's hot. Anyways, wondering if maybe he slept well bc of the limited day sleep?
I'm thinking of continuing this but more strictly since sometimes I let him sleep 10 minutes extra:
WU 7:30
S 11-11:30
S 2:45-4:15 pm
BT 8-8:15 pm
And seeing if the slightly later bedtime will help with the NW and EMW I was having.
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Hooray for better night...let us know how the later BT goes.
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Hello! Things have been going well overall :D
Last two days he had a low grade fever since he is finally cutting teeth. He has been extra sleepy as well. First day he took 3 naps and went to bed on time. He slept through until 5 am for a feed then back down until close to 7:45. Yesterday he had a total of 3 hours day sleep which hasn't happened since before the transition. But last night he woke up twice: one 2.5 hours after BT and it took a half hour or so to get him back to sleep so I assume UT due to too much day sleep.
My question is during these times of cutting teeth and fluctuating temperatures, do I just let him nap when and how long he wants to and just roll with whatever comes? Or do I stick with the routine no matter what in hopes of a good night. I noticed he got tired sooner than usual so A times were cut a bit.
Thanks again!
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With teething I tried to keep nap routine as close to "normal" as possible but would put LO down early if they're really flagging but wake at normal time (if not already awake) and do earlier bedtime if needed.
I think the only times I let DS sleep as much as he wanted in the day at this age was if he was properly ill and sleepy because of illness.
It sounds like you did right thing going with the flow when he was so sleepy but with those UT night wakings it sounds like he's caught up on the sleep he needs so I'd try to get back to as close to the routine that was working for you as possible
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Thank you!
Yea it seems he's all caught up but tried to sleep longer for the am nap. It was close to 3.5 A where I woke him at 45 minutes. Usually he wakes himself at the most 45 so it seems he's still a bit more tired from the night. But for the pm he went down very close to the usual time. We will see how tonight goes.
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Well last night was a complete and utter disaster. 3 NW, with two of them including a half hour of hysterical crying that was only stopped by Nursing as well as an EMW making his total night sleep only 9.5! :o
Not sure what happened?! I know he's going through a wonder week leap. Does this happen during his leap, is it teething? He still has to cut the other tooth. Seemed OT but not sure. Yesterday went like this.
WU 8:15 am
S 11:45-12:30 pm (3.30)
S 4:10-5:25 pm (3:40)
BT 9:10 pm ( A 3.75)
His first NW was 1.5 hours after BT and he was hysterical! He has never cried this hard this long before during NW only when severely OT.
Any thoughts?
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Sorry you both had a bad night. It could be teeth, or wonder week, I'd give it a couple of nights and see if he settles. If not, we can look at his routine again.
I would try to keep first nap to only 30 mins, though. His 2nd nap was only 1hr15 yesterday, that may have caused some OT by bedtime.
Hope you get a better day & night today
Xxx
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Ok! I'll keep you posted as now DS also has a cold to add to everything else ::)
I'll keep it at 30 minutes tops for the next few days. Today he did 39 minutes and fought a little the pm nap but I think it was OT bc he had a really bad night. He ended up falling back asleep after nursing so I'm chalking it up to some OT and General feeling of ailment from teething and congestion.
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So last night we got a nice 8 hour stretch but then only a 10 hour night :-\
Yesterday was:
WU 8:30 am (slept in)
S 12-12:40 pm (3.5)
S 3:55-5:02 pm (A 3.25)
S 5:10-5:38 pm
BT 9:16 pm (A 3:38)
I keep getting these shorter nights. Sometimes he settles after jumping through hoopS then sometimes he doesn't like right now. Either way he wakes up energetic. Not sure if this is still residual OT from the weekend? He just turned one this weekend. ;D
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Happy birthday to your DS!
I *think* 10 hr nights are just within average range with 2 naps but could also be UT.
I know I sound like a stuck record but I really would try to cap that first nap at 30 mins
Xxx
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Lol no they are good reminders. I'm amazed that even 10 minutes makes a difference!
I'll give it a go and see if it helps.
Oh and question: if I continue to need some tips in the 2-1, can I still post here or do I move to the Toddler Sleep board?
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Well, 10 mins might not make a huge difference to your nights, but I *think* you said he settles & sleeps better for 2nd nap with that slightly shorter first one?
He might just be at a stage where he has a shorter night because of still needing 2 naps, but if you feel it is too short and he's getting tired in the day, you could try capping first nap more & moving 2nd nap & BT earlier to give chance for a longer night?
You might as well continue with this thread even though he's 1, but I could move this whole thread into toddler sleep and continue there.
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Yes the shorter am nap definitely helps the pm stay a little longer. Last night he went to bed OT after having a 3:53 A time. He woke up a couple of times crying. However, he did have slightly more sleep than 10 hours.
The issue I am having is that he's waking up earlier and earlier bc of the 10-11 hour nights but my days are usually about 12.5 hrs. Not sure how to tweak things so he's not waking up and going to bed earlier everyday. Should I push the am nap slightly later but keep it at the same length? Would that mean I have to make the pm nap slightly earlier or keep it at 3.25? Yesterday he fought the pm sleep slightly but still went down at 3.25 and did almost 1.5. Or should I push the pm nap a tiny bit later? Or should I try to push BT slightly later?
Right now we are doing:
WU 7:30 (sometimes 7 am)
S 11-11:30 am
S 2:45-4:15 pm
BT 7:55 pm
Any suggestions?
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Hi there!
I think it would be good to get a longer night if possible, rather than a longer day as 12-13 hrs is already a good length for his day. His first A is at low end of average range for his age though so you could try pushing it a little later & see if that helps with EW.
Out of interest, how is he doing with self-settling & NFs now? Just wondering whether that could be affecting his night sleep too?
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Hi!!!
Ok so I actually did push the first A to 3.75 and kept everything pretty much the same:
Yesterday's EASY:
WU 7 am
S 10:45-11:20 am (A 3.75; I accidentally lost track of time to wake him)
S 2:40-4 pm (A 3:20;I'm assuming this nap was slightly shorter due to the first nap)
BT 7:45 pm (A 3.75; woke up twice crying hard not even 3 hours after BT)
We had an 11.5 hr night which definitely an improvement. However, he was I'm assuming a little OT so planning on doing:
WU 7:15
S 11-11:30 am (A 3.75)
S 2:45-4:15 pm ( A 3.25)
BT 7:45-7:55 pm (A 3.5-3:40; depending on how the pm nap goes)
Does that sound ok?
He self settled at night and is down to one feed! We are almost there!
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Today he fought and cried hard before his pm nap. I could have started his windown sooner so right at 3.25 he was not trying to sleep. Maybe I should have aimed for 3.05-3:10 to give him time to settle. He finally fell asleep at 3.5A. He woke up at 50 minutes crying then at an hour fighting sleep against. His am nap was 34 minutes. Maybe OT since extending first A?
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That's great that he self-settles at night now. Wha about for naps? Just wondering whether transition through sleep cycles is affecting his naps (LO who self settle make that transition much more easily).
I actually wonder whether fighting the pm nap might be UT rather than OT, which usually means a shorter am nap is needed, and either pulling pm nap a little earlier (& hoping for longer nap) or keeping at the same time, depending on how tired he is after a shorter am nap.
You are really getting into the thick of 2-1 now, I think. I was wondering whether it would be good to start a new thread in toddler sleep to continue any support you want there as you might get more eyes with more experience of goi g through same thing there?
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Hmmmm food for thought. With naps in general he can go into the next sleep cycle unless he's OT or UT.
Perhaps it was UT then? Would 4 minutes make a difference in not being tired enough for the next nap? I also acknowledge he's in the thick of a wonder week so that may be contributing to things.
Yes I can start a new thread and see how it goes. Thank you so much for all your support!!!
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I don't think the extra 4 mins would make much of a difference, but I wonder if the short 2nd A did? Maybe he needs at least 3.5 hrs, or more between 1st & 2nd nap, rather than a later 1st nap?
Just a thought...good luck for rest of the transition, you & he hav made great progress so far, he'll get there xxx
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Hi!
I'm just seeing your reply. Im thinking the am nap may have to be cut or that the pm nap should go a little later.