Bedtime stuff and night wakings, 3-year old

[hanna]

Hello,
I try to go through all her requests before she gets into bed, but of course she changes her mind and wants socks and more water when she's in bed . So she always gets more of what she wants.

You know, the NWs are the biggest problem right now. She had a couple of ear infections earlier this year and that's when she started waking up at night because it was bothering her, but now I'm inclined to think it's become a habit to call for me when she stirs at night or when she gets cold without her duvet, which she seems to kick off every night. Last night she woke up 5 times. My husband went in but she just screams more for me then so I end up going in and I'm SO tired and tired of it. I don't think she needs me, but I don't want her to cry/scream/be awake for a long time either.
She refused to go back to sleep and wanted to get up at 5.30 am this morning, so in the end my husband brought her to the guest room and they both slept in there until 7.20 am. I don't think that's an ideal situation either.

She does have a gro clock and that's been working ok.

I think the NWs have become a bad habit where she wants me to fix her duvet and sing to her.

I want to have a plan and tell her about it during the day and again at bedtime, and stick to it. I tell her every day that she can put her own covers back on and she says she will... Now I feel like I just cave in every night and it makes me mad. We started a rewards chart but she doesn't care about that enough, not yet at least.

Thanks from a tired mom.

[nona]

hi just about to post something on this same topic. maybe i should but i'll ask here to see what y'all think.

question for y'all.....my DD still cries/demands even on days she does not nap

at preschool (t/th) she falls asleep with no issues at 1230pm! she usually sleeps about an hour there.

she also throws a fit and wants me not DH to put her down; however, she tends to go down better for him than me. its just a big act IMO!  today she screamed bloody murder for me to come up and take out my coffee cup i left in the room. then she fell right to sleep after i removed it and closed her door.

even if my DD does not nap, i still want her to have quiet time in her room. how do i do that?  she is still in a crib...with a crib tent.

i think we are in the stages of 1-0 but i do think she needs a nap some days and she always falls asleep. i have to have some alone time during the day to get stuff down. she is a human tornado.

my main concern about nap dropping is having to go to bed really early. that does not work with our schedule. i have an 8 year old DS and it is so unfair to him to be stuck at home early - esp now since spring/summer is coming. it is so hot here (texas) that we do stuff in the evening when it is cooler. there will be no family bike rides if my DD has to go to bed at 7pm!!!

i'm getting stressed about it.

[creations]

Hi. Sounds like you're all losing sleep there. Hugs, it's hard when there are so manythings to deal with and trying to deal with them when you're so tired too. xx

I want to have a plan and tell her about it during the day and again at bedtime, and stick to it.

YK. You have really answered yourself here. I totally agree with this. You need a plan and you need to stick with it. Stick with it.

Can I suggest re-reading the thread first off for some reminders of the points previously made. There is great advice here from pps.  I totally agree with Vicki that the nursery naps are disturbing the entire weeks sleep. It can take several days to a week to get into a sleep habit and that is very hard when the routine changes back and forth.  Some LO need an occasional nap when nap dropping, even alternate no nap and nap days, but when they are ready to drop the nap completely, it needs to go. Fully. it is difficult, if not impossible, to set a healthy sleep routine with those naps continuing. Can you speak with the nursery manager again about this?

With regards to the BT call backs and NWs:

I try to go through all her requests before she gets into bed, but of course she changes her mind and wants socks and more water when she's in bed . So she always gets more of what she wants.

Really? Where do you draw the line? Have you drawn a line?  This is blunt but it is *you* that draws the line, not your LO. What for instance if she asked for chocolate, lollipops, a trip to the park? Would these requests go beyond the line?
So you set the line and stick to it.
I would never leave my child calling for me without a response and no one here would expect you to do so but there are ways to support your child without fulfilling their every desire. Night time is for sleeping.  Set a check list of things to be done before BT, go through it, socks, water, whatever it is, they are all done before lights out. Then it's the regular song, a kiss goodnight, leave the room.
There's the line.
No more requests.
Any call backs are responded to either by verbal reassurance from outside the room - reassurance, not conversation, one key phrase you repeat, do not discuss socks or water, tell her "It's sleepy time go to sleep" or if you feel you must enter the room you do so quietly, in the dark, and repeat the key phrase.

That duvet. I wouldn't want my LO cold in the night and learning skills such as pulling a duvet back over herself may be tricky, so:
- practise in the day time at the weekend to ensure she can manage
- fix the duvet so it can't fall off. A single sheet put right across the bed and tucked in tightly will do it, or a duvet cover fitted right over both the mattress and the duvet the effect being like a sleeping bag. This will stop the duvet accidentally falling off. If she is kicking it off on purpose to get you back in there she needs to learn this is no longer an option.

Water.  Put a non-spill cup near her bed and let her get it herself if she is truly thirsty.

There is an answer to each and every one of her disturbances and requests, you just need to set your head straight on the plan and in your own words:

stick to it

Many hugs. I hope something here helps you.

[nona]

when my DS was having issues (mainly not staying in bed) we made a sleep ( rules) chart. he wanted us to come back in constantly to for another tuck-in. on the sleep chart, we allotted for one extra tuck-in. after that we would say, remember the sleep rules! that's all we would say. he cry, etc but we would just say that one line. we also had to put gates in his door way (the clear kind) and that way he could see us when we said our one line (also prevented him from coming down in the MOTN).

so, we made a chart and put it into action over a weekend. the first night was really rough, the 2nd night was better, the 3rd night he'd wake briefly and then he start STTN again. by the end of the week, we were asking ourselves why we had not done the chart sooner! (his preschool teacher recommended making the chart)

[hanna]

Thank you "creations!" I know, I know. I'm just a sucker when she cries. I hate it.

Daycare will not keep her awake. I have gone though the same thing with my older son.

The duvet. Yes, she knows how to pull it back up. She may be warm and kick it off, I'm not sure, but I think she does and then she gets cold, of course. She insists on short sleeves and short pj bottoms because she is warm blooded. I can't force long sleeves on her. Sometimes I go in and put socks on her after she's asleep.
What you say makes sense. I just think it's difficult to be firm. I think, what if she is thirsty for real or her feet are cold now after she's in lying bed.
Anyway, I will try to be more firm and not give in.

What about the NWs, do I stay/stand outside her door then too? She gets really upset if we don't go in and it will take a while I think. Do I stay outside and repeat my phrase until she's sleeping or can I just go up and tell her once and go back to bed?

Thanks everybody!

[creations]

I'm just a sucker when she cries. I hate it.

Of course you hate it 
There's surely not a one of us who enjoys our child's cry!

If the duvet is such a problem perhaps you need a lighter tog?  Really she ought to be able to sleep comfortably without getting so hot she needs to kick it off and then become cold. It's probably normal for many of us in the colder weather to go in later in the evening to add another blanket, or even to remove one if LO likes to be super warm to get off to sleep but then over heats later...but this would be a regular thing to do each night just before your own BT, not something where the child needs to be calling all night for more or less cover.
For instance I have a duvet for my 4yo and we've used it now and then but mostly I figure out, even in winter, he is better off with his summer bed spread which is much lighter. When I go to bed I pop a blanket over the top as it does get chilly in the night.

Each child is different, yours may settle more quickly if you go in, but first stop and think, is the upset frustration or does she really need something?  Most LOs this age do not need anything in the night, possibly a wee, possibly have a nightmare or confusing dream and would like a little reassurance especially if they have SA or going through a developmental leap. But the difference is that your DD is calling every night and you are engaging in conversation and fulfilling her requests.
So it is hard to answer your question, maybe you go in once, reassure, check she is not ill, then leave the room and verbally reassure from outside.  Whether you go in or not her calls do need a response of some sort. Either verbally reassurance inside or outside the room or you sit in the room with or without reassurance so she knows you are there even though you do not respond to her requests or shouting.  She *does* need to know you are there for her and that she is safe, seeing or hearing you fulfils this.

I'm not one for charts personally.  if it works for anyone then that's wonderful. I prefer to show by example.  A child may not be able to stop themselves asking for more socks, more water, just because a chart says not to ask, they are only young. But I can choose not to respond to those requests, as an adult my actions are my choice.

[Laalaalaa]

Hi Hanna,

I'm posting because we had a similar issue with our 3 year old DD. Maybe that was the other post you referred to? It turned out that she was stuck in a huge OT cycle which caused multiple long NW with requests for all sorts - a drink, toilet, biscuit, cuddles, milk - the list was endless!

We've just had 4 nights of STTN. Now I know things could change at any point but I feel hopeful that they won't. And the thing that sorted her out was a sleepover at her friend's house. She slept solidly for 12 hours! It seemed to reset her clock and it also showed me that she could do it. So after that at BT, I got more strict about the list of requests and she learnt not to try and stall going to bed. It worked!

I know they are all different but sometimes a change in routine can help. Or anything that gets them out of that OT cycle. It made me realise that I didn't believe she could do it before. Once I knew she could do it, it became much easier to set clear boundaries with her about what was acceptable and her long list of requests finally stopped!!

We also had the same issue with naps causing late BT but luckily our childminder will do anything to keep her awake during the day! This helps a lot.

I know how awful those NW are but hang in there. You will get there! Hugs x