Author Topic: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins  (Read 1161 times)

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Offline Sparkleywoo

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8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« on: September 24, 2014, 14:41:32 pm »
Hiya,

I have just extended my 8 month old A times as he was really fighting his naps. He is currently on 2.5-3 hours for first A time, then 3.5-4h second A time. The one between last nap and bed varies but the last few days he's been going to bed at 8 (although would prefer earlier!). I just wanted to check that his A times aren't too long for his age... As I said they were pretty much dictated by him anyway! He used to do 45 min naps for ages, then had a really bad period where he wouldn't go down. Anyway turned out his A times were really short so I extended the. As advised which fixed the problem. He then started to do short naps again so extended to this which has length ended naps again. The reason I'm conserned is that he seems to look really tired all morning... Also, a lot of the time he was up after the first 30/45 mins even though he is clearly still tired. He crys 4 10 minutes until resettles and then sleeps again... Often for another 30 minutes (today for 2 hours!). He even does this at bed time... I've played around with longer/ shorted A times before bed and different bed times but still wakes... Does anyone know why this is? It seems like it's just a difficulty getting through the first sleep cycle... He will sleep though till 2/ 4 after this...

Anyway just really want conf that I'm on the right track or if there's something I'm doing that's causing this.

Thanks xx

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2014, 09:40:14 am »
Can you post your day in EAS format hon? - it may be he needs a longer first A time. And slightly shorter middle A. That said my boys liked a long middle a time too.

Is he an IS?
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Sparkleywoo

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2014, 12:50:41 pm »
Yeah no worries... It generaly looks something like this:

6am- wake
E - bottle (have just stopped BF)
E - 7.30 breakfast
A
S - 9am - 10 (he also has a bottle before he goes to sleep - I don't do EASY I do AESY!! Used to have a sleep association but broke it.
A
E - 12.30ish - lunch
A
S - 2pm - 3 (again another bottle before bed)
A
E - 5.30pm - dinner
A - 6pm - 6.30 bath and ready for bed - quiet play.
E - 6.30pm - bottle + watch waybuloo
S - 7pm - bed.

He will then wake roughly 30/45 minute after bed, at about 1ish when I feed him and then again at about 3/4am.

I did an experiment today/ yesterday... Yesterday I put him to bed at around 2.5 first nap and then  at about 3.5 next nap and he woke after 40 mins both times. Today I pushed to 3 for first nap and he didn't wake. Am testing second nap now so will let u know! I suspect that his A times get longer throughout the day so I might try keeping him up for 4.5 for the one between last nap and bed... Or du think that will just do him in and he'll get over tired? That would make bed time 7.30??

Thanks for your reply. ;)

Offline Sparkleywoo

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2014, 14:00:20 pm »
Ok - so... I just put him down for his second nap at 3hrs and 50 mins roughly. He woke after 40 minutes. Tried to get him back to sleep but no luck today - think he's still missing the boob when he's really tired!

So verdict is I think you might be right about evening out the wake times... I'm gonna go for about 3.5 hours for both. I think the first nap is getting an hour because he's just tired enough at 3 hours to get a decent nap... But then for the second he's just too tired so is waking up. That would explain why I got a short nap yesterday morning when I put him down at 2.5 hours for first nap as that must have been UT.

It's worth a try anyway...

Thanks for your help xx

Offline Sparkleywoo

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2014, 18:06:07 pm »
Do you think I can do the switch in one go or should I do it more slowly?

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 20:07:45 pm »
If your lo copes ok with OT do it all in one go otherwise tread lightly ;)

You could try pushing the morning A first though, just 15 mins and see if that nap extends to say 1.5 and then your pm nap can be a bit shorter and the last A to bt shorter too :-\ just food for thought x
***Sara***
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Sparkleywoo

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 06:07:53 am »
Hiya...
I've tried changing his A times but everything's just gone all over the place. He doesn't seem to be able to get past 3 hours forst thing. I got to 3h 15 once but just got an OT nap... I tried again but he just fell strait to sleep as soon as his head hit the pillow (of course no actual pillow!) at about 3h 05. I've also had no luck reducing the other A times - he was playing quite happily at 3.5 yesterday so I just didn't bother - I hadn't found that it helped him sleep any longer. It hasn't helped that wake up after bed time - in fact his nights have just gone from bad to worse! Last night was the worse night we've ever had. He just would not settle. I used to feed him to sleep which I managed to break and I now don't BF any more but last night he just wouldn't go down... He just wanted to be cuddled - I fear that he's swapped his attachment to breast feedingh for cuddling - he is teethibg at the moment but he was just waking up pretty much every hour. In the end I ended up having him in with me but not without a fight - he kept cryibg and pulling at my top because he wanted to BF - he just associates being in bed with me with Bf. I have been tryingn to use PU/PD although I'll admit that I have held him until he's gone to sleep a couple of times the last few days but he seems to have grown an attachment to that so quickly. He just seems to want me to help him go to sleep- he doesn't like doing it himself. As soon as I put him in his cot awake he will cry and cry- I guess I've just got to stick to pu/ pf until he settles and then just make sure that I don't slip with it.

Do you think I should continue with trying to change his A times as I haven't given it much of a chance or just go back to what I was doing before?

I can't have more nights like last night - it was horrific and I got pretty much no sleep!

Thanks

Offline Sparkleywoo

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2014, 06:19:25 am »
Ohh and he's also started waking at 5 instead of 6-6.30...

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 12:05:44 pm »
Hiya, I just wanted to add that I went to the health visitor today to ask them what they thought. They said that it was behavioural and that I should do controlled crying or cry it out... She said that damage was only done to babies who are very young where your not meeting thier needs... Is this true - is it safe and necessary to do this with my 8 month old? I've not really found that pu/pd works - he still crys out for me. Thoughts please ;) xx

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 09:21:11 am »
Sorry Love, I have missed your posts. Things have been really busy here.

Firstly
Hiya, I just wanted to add that I went to the health visitor today to ask them what they thought. They said that it was behavioural and that I should do controlled crying or cry it out... She said that damage was only done to babies who are very young where your not meeting thier needs... Is this true - is it safe and necessary to do this with my 8 month old? I've not really found that pu/pd works - he still crys out for me. Thoughts please ;) xx
IMO and the opinion of the ladies here the HVs comments are disputable. There is a lot of research which indicates contrary to her statement. Tracey was very much about respecting your baby/toddler and finding a way to teach independent sleep. The problem with CIO and CC is that your not listening to your babies needs. Baby steps crying not because he/she is always asleep but because they need to preserve energy and 'give up' on you coming. Both my boys were horrendous sleepers early on, they had reflux, food intolerances etc and I still managed to teach them IS without having to resort to leaving them to cry alone. Once they had learned the skills to sleep on their own even during regressions and illness they always seem to be able to go back to IS quickly following these bad patches because the feel safe and trust that we will come if they need us.

PU/PD didn't work to well for us either at 8 months. What I did was by some ear plugs and basally sat in DS2s room soothing with my voice and only PU for a cuddle if really stressed for a wee bit and rode it out. The first night took an hour. The second 40 mins, then 10 then he was able to go to sleep with me in the room in 5 mins on his own. Then I eventually got to leave the room (say on day 5/6) there was a bit of reerssion but nothing terrible and I was able to reassure him that i was here, but that he had to learn to sleep on his own.

Your LO will still scream, and cry. He will be mad, and tired. But not alone and not scared. this is much harder on us that CIO/CC as we endure it too, but I promise you if your consistent it will work.

What do you think? - Do you have support to do this for all naps and nights for say 5 days if you work out when to start?

In the meantime I would do set A times. Something like this would work
WU 6 (anything before this treat as a night waking and keep lights out etc)
A 3hrs15
Nap 9.15-10.30 or so
A 3hrs 30
Nap 2-3.30 or so
A 3hrs30
BT 7
Your LO may not need this much day sleep. At this age they really do start to need less day sleep if you want a longer night.
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Sparkleywoo

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 10:40:19 am »
Hiya,

Thanks for coming back to me - I can see how many people post on here so can only imagine how busy it keeps you! I know that we are all extremely great fun for all your help though... I don't know what I'd do without someone to ask these questions to!!

Any way... I have reposted with some more info so may be repeteing myself but... I have been working with him on IS for some time now. Stopped feeding to sleep about a month ago which was fine but then never really saw any improvement in sleep as a result. He still calls out for me. He went to stay at his grandad for a week and he said that he started to sleep through yet with me he just won't do it! I now put him in his cot when he's ready to sleep - and it's now fairly clear when this is... It never was before!... And I just lay him back down every time I've gets up. This will work and he'll go off to sleep with me stood next to his cot. Thing is - he still calls for me when he wakes up. It just takes a hand on his back and a few minutes or so to put him back to sleep but I still have to go to him. I always have gone to him when he's called out - he just seems to be very attached to me and very insecure. What's my next step?? I need to get this resolved as me and my partner are starting to fall out over it as I won't leave him to cry. Is it possible that it could be something else causing him to wake other than what I think it is as I'm not really seeing much improvement... He used to have reflux but assumed this had finished now... He has been teething but calpol etc doesn't seem to make any difference... He's had a rash on his forehead since he Started having formula full time... Maybe food intolerance? Although he used to do this before... I'm really lost and don't know what to do. Maybe a trip to the GP to rule out any medical issues may help...

As for changing his routine I have tried... But it just resulted in him wakin up at 5 in the morning! And he just won't sleep if he's not tired enough - I tried extending first A time but he just couldn't stay awake and for the 2nd he was playing happily at 3.5hrs so no point in trying to put him down as would have just had a battle on my hands. He's started to show really clear tired signs in as much as when he's ready to go to sleep after his bottle he'll just lay back in my arms and close his eyes. I then wish him upstairs and put him in his bed - he often protests and will stand up a few times but will then go to sleep - he must be awake enough to do that right?

This morning he slept until 7 instead of 6/6.30 and he actually stayed awake for an 3.5 hours so was thinking I need to try and get him to sleep longer in the mornings... Although he did have a late bedtime last night (8.30) as his routines gone a bit all over the place where he was waking up so early.

Hope you can help.

Thanks x


Offline Sparkleywoo

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 10:57:36 am »
Hiya - I've just re read your post again and I see what you are saying I need to do...

Basically i need to start letting him settle him self down instead of me keep putting him down... I just stay in the room and offer comfort verbally... Ok - so that's my next move then... I'll sit in the chair next to his bed and wait for him to put himself to sleep. Only cuddles if he gets really upset.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks

Offline Sparkleywoo

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 00:44:06 am »
Hiya, do I need to do this for night waking a too?

Thanks x

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2014, 19:10:46 pm »
Sorry I've been AWOL honey, on my own with the boys as DH is away and T isn't sleeping ::) I'll be back tonight x
***Sara***
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 8 month old wake times and waking after 45 mins
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2014, 09:18:59 am »
I think your lo is having some SA :-\ it comes around 8 months so that could explain the need for you a bit more at night for reassurance.

How is he sleeping now? What is your day looking like? I think your really doing the right thing Hun, it is a funny age. With regards to settling at night if your finding he is needing you to get back to sleep or sleep at night and the hand etc has become a bit of a prop definitely make the next step sitting close but trying not to touch him back to sleep. Once he will settle without your touch you can just move to the door and use your voice to soothe if you need to, but often at this point moving slowly out the door to the point where you pd and walk out without him fussing does come easier than going from touch to no touch iykwim.
***Sara***
https://www.facebook.com/tomiandroo


DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.