BFeeding mom needs some advice.

[maddiemommy]

Hello. I'm new here and just looking for a little advice. Some background... My first daughter had a structured routine and it worked great for us. However I had milk supply issues. This time with my 2nd daughter Madelen, I thought I would nurse on demand/loose routine. Things were going well till the last month when now she is waking up to 5 times a night to nurse!!  :shock:  I'm sooo exhausted. So I want to put her on EASY. I just got Tracey's books a few days ago and I've been observing Madelen to see how I should go about this.
My problem is that I'm not sure whether to do a 3 hr or 4 hr routine. Tracey says at 4 months they should be going to 4 hr routine. Madelen is 3.5 months and is a SNACKER! I can't imagine getting her to wait 4 hrs for a feeding. Actually she might wait 4 hrs and then take only a little snack and then be up all night nursing, making up for it, which is what she's doing now. I have a hard time to get her to take a full feeding during the day cause she's just so nosey and wants to see everything and doesn't want to lay still to nurse. It doesn't help that my toddler keeps her distracted. I try to take her to a quiet room to nurse but then she just SMILES and flirts with me the whole time. I think I have to put a bag over my head! I ABSOLUTELY do not want to lose my milk supply and I don't want to supplement. Madelen has never taken a bottle...though I should try soon.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

It might be really hard for her to go from frequent snacking to a 4 hr routine and not all bf babies can last to 4 hrs. First she needs to get a full feed.  What I started doing around that age is go into her room just as she's waking from a nap and feed her when she's still semi-asleep.  My dd would get way too distracted any other way, but this still seems to work pretty well.  If we even move from the dark room though - forget it!    When she wakes overnight, have you tried other methods to get her back to sleep (pat/shh worked for us for a while even though she was over 3 months).  If she's really hungry though, she'll be determined, I know! Try to avoid supplementing with formula as this will only decrease your milk supply - which you DON'T want. If you want to try a bottle, definitely go with EBM. That's all I can think of right now - hope it helps a bit!  Good luck!!

[GraceKellysmom]

I agree that it is unlikely she will "understand" when she wants to nurse and you don't. She is used to being pacified at your breast (which is OK!) as well as being fed. And your breasts are used to producing milk on the schedule you have now (or lack of one  ) If you up and change, you WILL have supply issues. So whatever changes you make, make them gradual.

The main point of EASY, beyond the getting in bigger feeds, is to NOT NURSE YOUR BABY TO SLEEP. So if you have the nursing/sleeping association, that needs to change first.

It is very, very common for 3-4 month old babies to start frequently waking at night. And it is very, very common for moms to think "hey she's hungry" and that is the easiest way to settle them, to feed them. They eat all night, and aren't hungry during the day. Awful cycle! So yes, I agree with the mod that you need to find alternate ways to settle at night. (Just make sure this isn't a growth spurt) And don't offer formula! It will decrease your supply.

My dc's have neither one taken a bottle. Nursing has been all they have needed, and they both started drinking from a straw around 6 months old. I am a SAHM and it is no problem to take them with me when I am out or pump a little and give it from a cup if I must be absent.

[maddiemommy]

Thanks for your responses. I've decided to do the 3hr routine which doesn't seem to be a problem for her. I guess our biggest problem is that she either has to be nursed to sleep or walked in her stroller. She has almost never gone down awake and put herself to sleep. Our other big problem is night waking and daytime snacking. I'm too ehausted to keep doing this. I know some of the time she's hungry but sometimes she just needs me to help her go back to sleep. She's definitely in a bad eat all night/not hungry in the day cycle. But today, putting her on the 3 hr feeds, made her definitely nurse better and a bit longer.

I am DEFINITELY not thinking of giving her formula. I am absolutely not willing to risk losing my supply. I would like to go right to a sippy cup if possible...we'll see.

Tonight we're going to try pat/shush and PU/PD. Even though she might be hungry I'm going to *try* not to feed after her first waking. It breaks my heart to think of it, but it won't hurt her to be really hungry tonight so that she'll eat during the day tomorrow. I need to break the cycle.  I often can't get Madelen to nurse in the morning when she wakes up cause she's full from a night of nursing. I'm hoping that will change after tonight. Wish me luck!!

Btw, do u think it's ok to nurse just to pacify before a nap as long as it's not interuppting full feeds and baby is still going down awake?

[GraceKellysmom]

What a beautiful name, Madelen, is. 

Some moms have no problem doing a AESY schedule, they just nurse prior to nap time but don't nurse to sleep. It just makes them more sleepy. EAESY is ok too, but like you said, just not all the way to sleep. 3 months is a good time to start to get a sleep association pattern going for her. Something you do everytime, like tucking her into her covers a certain way, or closing the curtains, or putting on music/white noise.

Now the tricky area is if she goes off to sleep but wakes 20 minutes later. You know she is still sleepy but she doesn't know how to put herself to sleep. That is where Pat/Shhhh or Pu/Pd comes in handy, or also if you can get her to suck her thumb or a pacifier. I personally wouldn't nurse in that situation because that teaches her to rely on you to put her back to sleep every time she wakes up.

[maddiemommy]

Well, we made it thru the night with just one nursing session. But I didn't like PU/PD. It seemed to stimulate her more than anything. In the end, I ended up walking with her to make her sleepy again and put her down that way. But at least I managed w/out nursing her and she took a full feeding in the morning!

I have no idea how to get her to go down awake.  I can't spend an hour getting her to go sleep on her own during the day cause I have a toddler I have to take care of. She'd be in and out of the room causing distraction. Maybe I could nurse her before her naps to get her sleepy (she never nurses long then anyway) and work on putting her down a little earlier each time?? She naps pretty good during the day but sometimes wakes after just 45 min. She will not have anything to do with a pacifier despite my best efforts. Actually, during the day I usually put her down for her naps in her stroller. She really likes it, it's cozy and dark in there and she can sleep outside in the fresh air.

Guess I'm just brainstorming out loud, trying to work this out. Glad for your suggestions! 

[jennc123]

i am having the same problem with my bella and nursing, i just posted a similar post.  she is on a 4 hour easy, sometime 3 1/2 hour easy, I have not been pushing the 4 hour too much yet, because she used to be a snacker and i don't want to be a pacifier anymore.  she is okay with this but the nappping and poor nursing are the pits!

[GraceKellysmom]

Only one feed, what a great night! 

I do believe getting good day time sleep (not too much, about 3 hrs total for a 4-6 month old, anything more will reck their night sleep) will help her sleep better at night. If they get overtired from poor naps, they don't sleep good at night, they wake up and can't get back to sleep.

We do have a great nap board that can hopefully help with ideas on how to get better naps, what type of "schedule" she should be close to, and how to get her to go to sleep on her own. Some babies really resist that crib!

What I did with my ds, which will or won't work for other babies, is wait until he was really sleepy, not just the first cues. That is just his personality type, he can get really sleepy. I put him down to nap and he had to fuss a bit. Pat/shh worked better with him, the pu/pd made him too cranky. I thought of it as a process. This week I'm going to get him to sleep in his crib, next week I'll work on getting him to fall asleep in his crib, and the following week I'll work on extending those naps.

Good luck on the sleep boards!