BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: cuckoochick on July 21, 2013, 20:32:10 pm
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Ok, has anybody combination fed?
I'm finding BFing tough this time around despite BFing C for 18mos. We couldn't get her to take a bottle until the week before I went back to work when C was 10mos so didn't have the option anyway.
Finding things tough because of some issues we've got with our 4wk old (possible reflux/colic/wind/goodness knows what!) and to be honest I'm exhausted and having a toddler to deal with who doesn't always cope well with me being tied to a sofa for ages BFing.
Hv suggested I introduce some formula for 1/2 feeds per day so that I could get a break?! I don't really know how I feel about this but am certainly not really enjoying BFing at the moment especially in the evenings as for the past few nights G has screamed while nursing. :'( I am worried about whether formula might make our problems worse but the way I'm feeling I need to make some changes because I feel like I'm on the precipice of PND.
Pumping isn't really the option right now as I just don't feel up to it. So any thoughts? Is it a good idea? Should I just try to ride it out? Is introducing formula likely to make things worse? As you can see I am so conflicted.
Thanks :-*
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I mixed fed DS from around 4m-12m when he stopped feeding. I offered the breast at each feed and then gave a top up of formula afterwards. In hindsight, I wish I'd gone along to a BF support group who had a fully trained breastfeeding counsellor to get things ironed out there rather than listening to DS's paed and introducing formula as I feel a lot of our issues could've been sorted out earlier if I'd just picked myself up and gone to a group for qualified advice :-\
Obviously the choice is yours, though, and no one is going to judge you for your decision :-*
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The thing is her weight gain is fab, she's having plenty of wet and dirty nappies (when the gaviscon isn't constipating her). I guess it's just the screaming and fussiness in the evening that is what I'm finding hard plus balancing all of the stuff with C. I just keep worrying if it's related to feeding and worrying she's starving (due to low milk supply in the evening) although I have tons of milk in the day. I am just constantly questioning myself.
I'm going to trial going dairy-free. Have been meaning to but needed to do it when I had planned a week's worth of meals. I am trying to set myself goals of a week at a time because I don't want to give up BFing entirely. I just thought it would be loads easier this time around. It's made harder by the fact that she will not feed while I'm lying down in bed at night. I'm not being rational because I'm so tired I guess.
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Hugs Nic xx
I found with both mine things improved greatly at 6 weeks. If you think there is any dairy issues/reflux issues I'd be really wary of introducting formula just because it really could make things worse.
How long is G feeding for? I can't really see how the HV thinks doing a few bottles feeds will give you a break? Unless you have other people there to do the feeds for you? Because you still have to make up the feed and sit there while she feeds so its still going to be boring for C? And then all the supply issues as to keep up supply at this early stage you'd need to be pumping too. Sorry for sounding like a downer but that what my HV said to me and it just seemed like really hard work. Unless you could do a bottle feed for DF so you can go to bed early and leave DH to do it so you could have from 7/8 to 3am ish uninterrupted?
In the evenings I would feed and then let DH batter on settling her. I was really conscious of not getting into hour upon hour long feeding sessions with DD2 because of having DD1. My MW said after 4 weeks after a half hour feed really she will have had enough so unless she was really really actively feeding I ended the feeds and persevered with the dummy.
I think the evening fussiness is just that. Not related to milk supply IYKWIM? Maybe OT? How is she sleeping in the day? Are you getting out much with C?
Hugs hugs hugs. Hang in there. It will get easier xx.
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We're off out but will be back to post later :-*
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Hugs sweetie. I totally get why you think it may help.
I just want to also point out that IF (and I know it's an if now) she is intolerant, or has gut issues formula will make this much worse. It will also discount your dairy free BF if you were to try it. Formula is more heavy on the gut, and harder to digest. Milk proteins are filtered much more through breast milk than in formula too.
Also IF (another I know just wanting to let you know) there is reflux. Formula is typically worse coming up and stays in the tummy longer. Breast milk has an alkaline effect.
So, I'm not saying don't...but do consider these and depending on what you feel the problem is go from there. Maybe see if you are to go dairy free and you want formula as an option see if you can get access to hyper allergenic milk. I personally wouldn't give soy milk to a NB :-\
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Won't you still be tied to the sofa while you're bottle feeding? Or is the theory that they take milk from a bottle faster?
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Won't you still be tied to the sofa while you're bottle feeding? Or is the theory that they take milk from a bottle faster?
That's what I was thinking too. Plus you'd need to use a newborn teat so bottle preference doesn't develop if Nicola wants to keep up BFing.
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Anna I guess the bottle feeding rationale would be that DH could do some feeds. I think if we were to introduce a bottle of formula it would be to replace a BF if that makes sense so maybe one around teatime and the midnightish feed so that I would go to bed and get some sleep and DH do that feed. My SIL combination fed her twins from day 1 by BFing in the day and bottle feeding formula in the evening and throughout the night. Other than her I don't know anyone else who has done combination feeding. Most people seem to be all or nothing if that makes sense.
So our days are actually pretty good. G sleeps in the sling for all naps as I'm not even going there work trying to settle her in her basket. I'm not recording our days EASY because I can't let my mind go there with analysing and logging.
Generally though she is feeding every 2.5-3hrs in the day. Often I am waking her at 3hrs in the afternoon as she'd definitely sleep longer if I let her. So naps are at least 1.5-2hrs.
The end of the day can get a bit hairy with getting everyone fed at dinner time so sometimes she can be OT by BT but she's fussy regardless of that at BT. The other day we'd a perfect day of naps and her last nap was a 2hr nap which she woke from at 6pm and was hungry. She had a feed and a bath by 6:45 and was then getting ready for bed when the screaming/feeding cycle started. This then lasted for 2.5hrs or thereabouts when she finally fell asleep at 9:30pm but was then up at midnight. Yesterday she didn't nap well late afternoon as was cluster feeding and did a short 30min nap but then went to sleep after only an hour and a half of fussing and screaming.
At night she does a first stretch of about 4-5hrs which is good I know and then was doing between 3-4hrs between NFs again good I know but now she's waking every 2hrs and so by the time I've got her back into bed I'm hardly shutting my eyes. This has been for the last week now. It's the early hours of the morning where she's uncomfortable as well she's writhing around I just cannot sleep. So yes while I know formula might not be the magic answer and I'm really not thinking it would be, I'm just exploring it as a possibility for a sanity saver. I find these screaming nursing sessions in the evening really distressing.
I guess it's just confusing how she feeds every 2.5hrs-3hrs in the day and would go longer if I let her to then feeding every 2hrs at night. If I could cosleep with her to get more sleep I would but she's so windy I can't plus she won't feed lying down in bed.
Thanks ladies for your thoughts.
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Hugs Nicola xx
I think doing a bottle feed for that midnight feed would be a good idea. I used to go bed early and DH would bring R to me and I'd DF in bed. Shame G won't feed lying down as it was a lifesaver for me.
I think though the first port of call would be to get the reflux sorted though. Squirmy evenings and unable to feed lying down and wind annoying her scream uncontrolled reflux or MPI to me. You've stopped the gaviscon haven't you? When are seeing the GP again?
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Yes I stopped the gaviscon because it wasn't actually stopping her vomiting or hiccupping and then we had constipation causing discomfort too. She was lying there pumping all night and writhing around and honestly in some ways it was worse. All the HV told me to do was to give her cooled, boiled water but then was advised by LLL not to do that under any circumstances.
The HV is coming tomorrow but I'm hoping to get to see the GP I want to see sometime this week. She works part-time and different days every week is v popular so it's not easy to get to see her.
To be honest, BT is the worst. She's not really a screamer at any other time of the day. It's just stressful for us all as by this point I am done and it's making C escalate before BT too and so we're often ending up with 2 of them screaming and then me on the inside too!
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Hugs Nicola :-*
DS was older (5.5mo) when I started combination feeding, and my own supply dried up pretty fast so he ended up fully on formula by 6.5mo. It was hydrolized protein formula (Pepti 1) as he couldn't have regular due to MPI & reflux.
I'd try going dairy free first, see if you can get the reflux under control, then she'll rest better and so will you :-* :-*
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DD was like that in the evenings for a good few weeks after delivery. We started out by doing the BT routine and trying to get her into bed and then if that didn't work then just taking her back downstairs (either in or out of the sling) and cuddling/feeding until she dropped off. No, it's not very BW, but she's still really new and wants and needs to be near someone.
Could your DH take her for a bit while you put C to bed and spend a bit of alone time with her to give you a bit of a break? Or is he not around at that time?
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Amanda I'm not bothered about creating any props at this point I'll do anything. DH is around most evenings so we could try that. When we've tried to do both together, C gets v stressed. They do have a bath together and on Tuesdays I've been doing both which has been hard. Thanks :-*
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Honestly, I found just chilling out about it all and doing whatever was necessary was liberating and meant that I could be a lot more relaxed in my parenting (for both of them). This will get easier :-*
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I'm with Amanda. In the early months I didn't put R to bed until we were going to bed at 10/11 and just kept her down with us. Maybe you could feed her and DH could sort her while you do Cs bed and let her have a nap in the sling and attempt bedtime later once C is settled and asleep?
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Following along with interest
Fwiw L also had rubbish evenings and was up with us (in a sling and feeding about hourly) until we went to bed until she was about 2 months. From then on BTs and evenings (at 7pm) were a lot better (although of course we still had plenty of rough patches).
Don't think bottles/formula would have helped us at all in the evenings (just more hassle to prepare and you have to sterilise too don't you) and I think I would have woken just as much during the night even if DH had been the one giving her a bottle.
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Evenings here are unsettled too Nicola. Bens in my arms screaming right now. We don't have any kind of BT routine in place yet at 7.5 weeks. He's downstairs with us cluster feeding until I go to bed between 9 and 10.30pm. I didn't cluster feed last night and it was a big mistake.
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G is cluster feeding earlier as in late afternoon. I could try and keep her downstairs with us but she often seems ready to sleep a long stretch at that time and I confess in many ways I am just done and want some baby/child free time after having her in the sling most of the day but yes DH could have her in the sling! ;D
It probably is a case of me rushing to try and get a bedtime routine sorted and perhaps I am being unrealistic at this stage. I'd just like us to get back to those 3hrs between feeds at night. Perhaps I could try a DF or would that be asking for trouble with our wind issues?!
I feel like we're being really inconsistent with everything as now we've stopped the gaviscon she's vomited loads more today. She hasn't seemed too uncomfortable though. We've been giving her infacol. Much less screaming at BT tonight though.
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Huge hugs. BTDT. Where are you up to with going dairy free? DD was very squirmy at night/gassy etc, and cutting out dairy made a huge difference to her. It isn't as bad as I thought it would be - there are dairy free margerines, oat milk etc, which makes things relatively easy.
Not sure if you know, but Gaviscon not being effective would not rule out reflux - it isn't great for many bf babies, and it isn't technically even a medication it is just a thickener. We had lots of issues with it causing constipation, and we ended up with ds and dd both going on ranitidine and then a ppi (these meds actually reduce the acid ).
I mixed few with DS (he had severe tongue tie and wasn't gaining weight) and in retrospect I regret it as although he needed more milk in him, I wish I had been better informed as in hindsight he was probably MSPI. So I agree with the others, it may be worth holding out until you have established whether he has other issues, as although it may feel like you want to do something now, it may actually make things more difficult iyswim :-\.
What are her poos like (when she's not on the gaviscon!)?
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I'd just like us to get back to those 3hrs between feeds at night
And you will, I promise, but these first few weeks have so many GSs and suchlike that once you find some sort of equilibrium, it's only ever short lived. Get past that 6w stage and they're not quite so frequent.
And as PPs have said, Gaviscon doesn't neutralise acid, just adds some 'weight' on top of the milk to try to stop acid from coming up (which as a previously pregnant woman who has taken it, I know not to be particularly effective!!)
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Claire, her poos are perfect BF poos when not on the gaviscon. Yellow with some milk curds. No sign of any mucous. She's been less windy without the gaviscon during the night too. With the gaviscon it was really thick and we'd get total blowout poos after a while of being bunged up.
I am going to do the dairy free, I'm building myself up to it because food is my life and I use it as a big comfort to me especially in times of stress. That probably makes me sound really horrible but I know I will find it hard. Will start tomorrow as DH made me buttered crumpets and tea with milk while I was in the shower this morning despite it being the plan to go dairy free today after we did our shopping.
Thanks ladies for all your words of encouragement. My head is all over the place so sorry if I'm not making much sense. Right better get to bed as no doubt G will be up soon!
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Nic Toms poops were fine until closer to 6-8 weeks old so she could still be intollerant
Hugs Hun, it's so hard!
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How'd your night go lovely?
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Thanks Shiv,
She woke at midnight and then every 3hrs so 3ish, 6iah and then at half 7 in a bit of discomfort. So much better.
HV came today and G has out on another 12oz in a week so in terms of her weight gain she is doing fab. I've got an appointment with the GP tomorrow as when I rang up there were no appointments left despite me ringing yesterday and being to,d to ring T 8:30 as I couldn't book an appointment. However today they've given me an appointment for tomorrow ??? Anyway as long as we get to see her I'll be pleased. The HV acknowledged she is v good so fingers crossed.
Our today today is going terribly though as G short napped and then we struggled to get her back down and of course just as we did HV arrived and woke her up to weigh her.::) she's now in sling and has just woken at 30min mark and is going nuts, rooting against my chest. Gonna be a long day and DH is off to work. ::)
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Hi Cuckoochick, I'm quite new here but wanted to offer some support. It will be good to see GP to discuss issues. I'm a GP myself but by no means an expert on a lot of these issues - I have a very similar story to yours and we're at 8weeks now! - I would say that Infacol and Dentinox Colic Drops(which are similar) can actually make reflux worse. I assume your health visitor has gone through all the non medication things to help - raising head of crib a couple of inches, keeping upright for 15-30mins after a feed, winding mid feed. Making sure emptying one boob before moving to next to ensure not getting too much lactose rich foremilk which even if not lactose intolerant can cause increased wind as the extra sugar is broken down. Like you I found gaviscon useless really and with good weight gain wasn't keen to start acid reducing medications like ranitidine or omeprazole. I do combination feed, just bottle at night when i dont have enough EBM to make up a feed. I don't find it has made any difference to reflux or wind to have the odd bottle of formula, I have tried EBF and dairy free etc but for us that wasn't the culprit. In the beginning when DH gave a bottle of formula at night I expressed to keep my supply up - I loved this because DH had LO and I could have a cup of tea and not feel like I should be running round tidying up or sorting other things! A random thing that I found helped with T's reflux and fussing at night was to give the bottle of formula or EBM when I have enough, cold from the fridge, he wasn't sure of that at first but now seems to like it and he doesn't cry or writhe around after his last feed like he used to.
Sounds like you're doing a fab job though and your LO is obviously thriving, it is hard, we just have to do what's right for us and our wee families at the end of the day, hugs, x
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Hey hun, I havent read through every post but you are discribing my life 9 months ago! I have a few ideas
If you suspect MPI dont introduce formula - I was giving aptimil before we suspected MPI and when we looked back he was much worse on the formula than breast milk even when I was eating dairy.
C was gaining loads of weight too and didnt have the mucousy poos, just the vomiting, unsettledness and screaming!! I really had to push the doctors with his carem first for meds for reflux and then for a referral to the ped but it was all totally worth it :)
I have been combination feeding since C was 4 weeks old, mostly 1 formula feed per day and the rest breast milk from me or expressed (when he is at nursery). He was on aptimil until we saw the ped at 4mo and now he has neocate. When he was smaller I would express in place of a formula feed unless it was during the night when I'd just sleep through. Now I hate expressing so I tend not to do it so much but I dont really get much milk when I express anyway now even though I am making enough milk for C's feeds.
With the dairy free - I was so worried - At the start it was hard because I never knew how much actually contained dairy but now I am so used to it I think that even when I stop bf or if C grows out of his MPI, I will continue to follow a dairy free diet. I have just made amazing banana muffins and ate 3 of them with a cup of tea lol! Food can still be good without dairy and if you need any help there, just ask :)
Hugs honey xxxx
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Thanks ladies :-*
Lindy- yes we've been trying all of those tips thank you.
I started dairy free today. This might sound like a silly question but is it just cow's milk products I'm avoiding? Ie can I have goats cheese or cheese from ewes' milk?
Kelly I'm definitely going to have to do some baking. C has been tucking into some flapjacks this afternoon at snack time and I was v jealous!
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huge hugs Nicola,
Sounds a lot like Emma in the early days. I was so sure we were dealing with issues related to OAL/OS and her tongue tie daytime (so wind due to not being able to deal with the fast flow and amount of milk) and then FM/HM imbalance as she'd get fed up with one side easily (weak such again due to TT) and I'd swap and swap again and again. In the evenings due to my own exhaustion (wintertime, 2.5 yr old male toddler at home, DH working 12 hr days Mon to Fri so alone all day including bedtimes and an EWing toddler to boot) my milk would actually be very, very low. So I used a bottle for that 7-8pm feed, first to the breast and then I'd top her up with what otherwise I would have used for a DF. It was a sanity saver, really and truly.
From when I first introduced it, I had both of them down by 7pm for sure and had an hour or two of peace for myself. DH would get in around 8pm, cook for us and I'd go to bed. I fed 11pm or 12 midnight DF, DH would do everything but the feeding. I never ever learned (nor did my babies) how to feed lying down. I have teeny boobs and babies with big heads (lol) so I could never see what was going on. I would just prop myself up in bed and snooze sitting/half sitting (which was also good for the OAL as they fed against gravity.
G's weight gain is really brill for a EBF little girl - AMAZING! Also, I wanted to add that I was really trying everything to not go dairy free as it would be extremely difficult in PL as those allergy-products even for gluten free, diabetics etc are only now coming onto the market. We even had green mucousy poos (but they were the FM/HM imbalance type) and with such amazing weight gain, good poops when block fed or fed non-distracted, lack of issues with skin etc - I finally put all her early issues down to TT, windiness associated with this and OAL/OS, distractible nature (and big brother around LOL) and lack of patience in the evening combined with spiritedness and my exhaustion.
I swear until we stopped at 18 mths, Emma's only "textbook" feeds (after a very successful feeding relationship with Oscar) were DFs or early morning feeds later (when I went back to work at 7mths, I would feed her semi comatose in the mornings as I had to leave at 7am). Not great, I know, but I did what I had to to "control" the others - in the dark where possible, in friend's bedrooms when visiting their houses, under a black blanket outdoors etc etc. Otherwise, we had the windy green poops even at 3 mths +.
So, just another take - it can be lactose overload, distractibility etc and not necessarily dairy.
S x
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Thanks shivi. I'm worried we won't be taken seriously anyway because her weight gain is do good.
It's really humid here today and G has decided napping is for the weak. Going to be a long night I think. Lucky DH being at work late!
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I know what u mean about not being taken seriously because of weight gain. Took me almost 5mths to have e's tt cut for the same reason...
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Agreed re. weight gain and being taken seriously.
It's sad that a baby has to be classified as 'failing to thrive' for even some of the most simple things (like tongue ties) to be remedied :(
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WRT goats/ewes milk/cheese. I never had any for months because I thought I wasnt allowed and 2 weeks ago I introduced feta and goats cheese and C is fine :) I know I shouldnt overload but Ive probably had some sort of goats cheese every 2nd day since then, haha! I had my first pizza in 7 months :)
If you think you will struggle with all (I cut soya for the first 2 months aswell) then just do cows milk products and see if you notice a difference :)
It's sad that a baby has to be classified as 'failing to thrive' for even some of the most simple things (like tongue ties) to be remedied :(
This :( My doc wasnt keen on referring me to ped because C hadnt lost any weight but I pushed and Im glad I did. It was the help and support I got on here that really have me the confidence to trust my instincts :)
Hugs honey :-*
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I really hope I can have goats cheese or feta as I love cheese and DH and C are pizza mad!
We've had a terrible day today with G but I think that was the heat and humidity. She just wouldn't sleep this afternoon no matter what I did and was terrible this evening. It took hours to settle her as she was so overtired poor love. Very stressful so I'm off to bed. Will be back to update after the GP appointment tomorrow :-*
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Good luck! As for the dairy, (I might be wrong here) I thought the point of eliminating it was to rule out cows milk protein intolerances, so I guess dairy from other sources might not be such an issue?
Someone please correct me if I'm talking gibberish!
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I had no goats feta and then added it in and it was fine (until obviously it wasnt but that was due to a number issues) - I consumed it in very small amounts though.
Amanda, I think because goats and cows milk protiens are very similar LO can have an intolerance to both.
good luck tomorrow hun.
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Well we saw the GP and she prescribed us some ranitidine. She is awesome and really made me feel reassured. Day 2 of no dairy.
After being so unsettled yesterday and not sleeping on the afternoon and being a nightmare to settle at BT, G slept until 3am for a feed then half 6 and straight back down until half 9! I so needed that but don't really want to have to have such an OT screaming baby to get that!
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I'm really happy for you Nicola you should start to see improvement on ranitidine within a few days, if not then definately by a week.
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Thanks hun, she really didn't like the ranitidine when we gave it to her but am hoping she is going to get used to the peppermint taste. She actually vomited straight after so not sure how much of it went down her but never mind. It will get better I am sure.
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Yes, its grim. And feels horrible giving it to a baby :(. But they do get used to it - e loves it now :P!
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It's 100X better than losec suspension ;) are you using a syringe? I was terrible with Z as he would fight it so I gave him a chaser of gripe water after!
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Hi Sara, yes we've been given a syringe as her dose is 0.8ml! We had a terrible night last night. She was writhing around from 3:30 until morning basically and spilling lots, poor wee mite. Soaked gro bag and bed sheets again.
In terms of what I am eating possibly having an effect upon her, what sort of timescale are we talking? A few hours, more? I've obviously cut out dairy but yesterday I drank a lot of orange juice and had spicy fajitas at lunchtime and a sausage sandwich at teatime. She's pooed lots this morning and was a bit gassy. The GP told us to stop the infacol but her wind was coming up quite well in the NFs.
Also now that we've started the ranitidine, how am I going to know if it is dairy that is the problem if the ranitidine improves things? I don't particularly want to cut out a major food group (and one that is in everything!) if I don't need to, iykwim? I'm willing to do it if needed. The HV seems to think I should have dairy and see how things go with the medication and then cut out dairy if needs be. Does anybody have any thoughts on that? I know 2 days is not long enough to see an effect really so I'm not going to know if it is dairy now that we've started the ranitidine but then part of me thinks well I've done 2 days should I just keep going?
Thanks :-*
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I think it's better to do one thing at a time or you don't know what is helping or not. I'd be inclined to give the medication a try then do dairy free if needs be. But I had a really hard time giving up dairy!!
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Thanks hun! You've said what I wanted to hear! :-* Will give the ranitidine a week and if needs be trial dairy. It's not that I'm not willing to do it but it is going to be hard as I love cheese!
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I would do two weeks meds then two meds plus dairy free x
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I would do two weeks meds then two meds plus dairy free x
This ^^^
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I totally agree - I never cut dairy until we noticed the ranitidine wasnt really working. Try 2 weeks meds and see, if you don't get much improvement then I would trial the dairy free (alongside the meds).
What's your thoughts on combi feeding now then? I know you said you don't wanna pump but when I was feeling overwhelmed with all the feeds I pumped a few times throughout the day (just after feeds and only for 5 mins or so) which gave me enough milk for DP to do the 11pm feed. It meant I could go to bed at about 9 and get a decent 4 or 5 hours unbroken sleep :) it saved my sanity :)
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I would do two weeks meds then two meds plus dairy free x
Yep will do this.
It seems G has decided to give up napping in the sling, buggy, carseat, anywhere! ::)
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*hugs* You'll get there :-*
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Honestly, if she is no better or worse by the time she is 6 weeks so 9 days I would start ed OR see the dr again.at this age that is a lot of time to see no improvement :-\ but that's just my opinion
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Thanks everyone! I don't think she was not sleeping due to discomfort as such Sara, just that she is just like her big sister was: far too alert and nosey!!! Plus it's really hot here again and I don't think that helped today. Am trying to stay relaxed about her sleep and mostly I am not obsessing too much but it's harder with G as she cries loads when OT which C never did! She just got hyper!
Am especially trying to go with the flow as 6wk growth spurt stuff will be striking so I'm giving it a couple of weeks and then will try to establish a more consistent EAS!!! Ha ha!!!! Who am I trying to kid?! ::)
Both girls are tucked up in bed so I've sent DH to the shop for chocolate cake! ;D sending virtual slices to all helping us through this :-*
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No prob Nicola, if her pain symptoms don't ease though..I'm nt sure if she spits up acid smelling spill, if so this is what you would want to ease along with other reflux symptoms x
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Yes, the spit-up has already seemed less acidic and curdy. Tonight will be a good test to compare to last night.
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Fingers crossed for a better night Hun.
And I'll take some chocolate cake!!!
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A big wedge coming your way Shiv. :-*
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:-* :-*
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Fx here too lovely. And you can have my wedge ;) (see I just assumed there was one for me :o - rude!)
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Fx here too lovely. And you can have my wedge ;) (see I just assumed there was one for me :o - rude!)
LOL!! Me too!! And you are much more helpful than me!! Sorry Nic!
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Ah see that's the good thing about virtual cake: anyone can have as big a piece as they desire and you are both more than worthy of a piece. Thanks again ladies! :-*